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Thing is we only seen just the basic traits and rules.

Already seems more basic rule traits then other armies getting and no mention of core anywhere for those.

We are yet to see any relic, warlord traits stratagems or psyker powers. that will go on top these layered ala SM buffs.

Seems on good track so far.
However GW being GW I wouldn't be surprised if this is as good as its going to get.

 puma713 wrote:
Nice summary by someone over on the DG FB page:;

Alright kids, settle down. ...

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone starting a post with this sentence is going to have the maturity to write something I care enough to read.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Nice summary by someone over on the DG FB page:;

Alright kids, settle down. ...

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone starting a post with this sentence is going to have the maturity to write something I care enough to read.

I wrote it. It's fine if you don't read it; plenty of people did and enjoyed it. We'll be happy to have the discussion without you.

 Virules wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Nice summary by someone over on the DG FB page:;

Alright kids, settle down. ...

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone starting a post with this sentence is going to have the maturity to write something I care enough to read.

I wrote it. It's fine if you don't read it; plenty of people did and enjoyed it. We'll be happy to have the discussion without you.

I thought it was a well-written and comprehensive look at the change, hence why I shared it here.

 puma713 wrote:

 Virules wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Nice summary by someone over on the DG FB page:;

Alright kids, settle down. ...

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone starting a post with this sentence is going to have the maturity to write something I care enough to read.

I wrote it. It's fine if you don't read it; plenty of people did and enjoyed it. We'll be happy to have the discussion without you.

I thought it was a well-written and comprehensive look at the change, hence why I shared it here.

My man

 Virules wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 puma713 wrote:
Nice summary by someone over on the DG FB page:;

Alright kids, settle down. ...

Quite frankly, I don't think anyone starting a post with this sentence is going to have the maturity to write something I care enough to read.

I wrote it. It's fine if you don't read it; plenty of people did and enjoyed it. We'll be happy to have the discussion without you.

If your post really is helpful (obviously I don't know) then it is a dam shame you chose to shoot your own credibility in the first four words and rebuild from there.

That post comes to the same conclusions that most of the people here already had come to.

Infantry became better with the changes.

Big stuff became worse (durability wise).

Honestly I like the fact that the heavy stuff is getting more killy and less though. Seeing DG parking lots just moving onto objectives made for boring games.

Now DG have the most durable infantry in the game to properly operate on the field, while they bring vehicles to get the heavy firepower, which is what vehicles should be for.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If your post really is helpful (obviously I don't know) then it is a dam shame you chose to shoot your own credibility in the first four words and rebuild from there.

This is a style over substance fallacy writ large. If you'd spent all the time you took going on about their tone reading the post instead, then maybe you could have a productive conversation about it.

In other words: Just read it!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
If your post really is helpful (obviously I don't know) then it is a dam shame you chose to shoot your own credibility in the first four words and rebuild from there.

This is a style over substance fallacy writ large. If you'd spent all the time you took going on about their tone reading the post instead, then maybe you could have a productive conversation about it.

In other words: Just read it!

Well, I did. Spoletta was right; it was saying things we already knew. And it found an excessively long way to say it, plus chucking in a few disingenuous bits and math mistakes to boot. There is no information or conclusion in there that was not already well established 3 pages ago.

The proof will be in the pudding of the releases tomorrow of info, and point costs when we get those. The strats and such may help as well but without seeing how it all flows together it will be hard to say this won't over all still be good or at least highly workable.

It does kinda feel like it sucks a bit right now, but that may just be knee jerk reaction from change. I will say if they didn't bake in FNP for pox walkers, unless this is all great after that they are crap which makes me sad as I love me some zombies.

Why are people assuming rhinos are getting fnp? Nothing has suggested this.
In fact the only mention of any vehicles getting it specifically mentioned Daemon engines only which already have it.

Doohicky wrote:
Why are people assuming rhinos are getting fnp? Nothing has suggested this.
In fact the only mention of any vehicles getting it specifically mentioned Daemon engines only which already have it.

Because they're confirmed rolling it out to other units that previously didn't have it and most books these days apply the army rules to the army, not just infantry, bikes and dreads as per current DG.

You could well be right that it doesn't apply to rhinos but I feel there's more suggestion it will.

Also, there currently is a stratagem to give any vehicle DR, so the assumption is fair game.

Spoletta wrote:
That post comes to the same conclusions that most of the people here already had come to.

Infantry became better with the changes.

Big stuff became worse (durability wise).

Honestly I like the fact that the heavy stuff is getting more killy and less though. Seeing DG parking lots just moving onto objectives made for boring games.

Now DG have the most durable infantry in the game to properly operate on the field, while they bring vehicles to get the heavy firepower, which is what vehicles should be for.

Something that's been coming with recent codexes is defenses against big damage weapons are getting weaker while stuff gets extra protection vs low damage weapons.

Necron quantum shield went from practically no effect to dam1-2 weapons and autoignore damage 7+(or 6 with stratagem), marine dreads got -1 damage that's now DR which gives bigger benefit the smaller damage is resulting in 24% damage reduction vs d6 damage, 33% vs d3 damage etc.

Well with core rules favouring vehicles and monsters codexes need to help infantry out anyway

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

Well, I did. Spoletta was right; it was saying things we already knew. And it found an excessively long way to say it, plus chucking in a few disingenuous bits and math mistakes to boot. There is no information or conclusion in there that was not already well established 3 pages ago.

That's why I called it a summary. Because many readers won't go back and read 3-4 pages worth of discussion.

 Jidmah wrote:
Oh, and they aren't tactical marines either.

Interesting claim, given earlier in the thread you stated:

 Jidmah wrote:
Tactical marines and plague marines were the same unit though, and if plague marines were anywhere near "perfectly balanced", they would show up in lists more and not be replaced by nurgle daemons by everyone. Their main use right now is the grenade combo, which I'm absolutely sure will go away.

Apparently this is Schrodinger's comparison, where units both are and are not the same...

* * *

Moving on - I think it is safe to say that Poxwalkers, Plaguebearers and Nurglings (plus anything that interacted with the old DR) will see some form of change. Whether that's FNP for Pox, a second wound for Plaguebearers, or the removal of the DR restriction for Nurglings, I don't know, but there will be some change.

It's an interesting observation from Morty's datasheet that Contagions of Nurgle may cover pgs 62-63 - there is possibility they're just on 63, with DR on 62, given all the Plague Weapons mention referring to pg 62 for their rules. We also know that Warlord traits seem to cover pages 41-43, and that the psychic powers are on pg 51.

Looking at the various previewed special rules, there's no mention of Inexorable Advance or Malicious Volleys on his datasheet - he should have the former, even if the latter has no benefit. Deadly Pathogens not being mentioned makes sense, though I do wonder if he or Typhus are legal targets for those upgrades. DR is obviously there, though not explained in full, and Remorseless doesn't fit for a few reasons.

I can see it as possible that CoN is a catch-all rule like Angels of Death, covering IA, MV and whatever the Contagion abilities are - and maybe even HA and DTtFE - but it'll be interesting to see, one way or another.

Contagion of Nurgle is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/11/death-guard-rules-preview-part-5-contagions-of-nurgle/

So an aura that applies -1 to Toughness scores with a radius that increases in every round. It appears(so far) that Death Guard will not be receiving any Angels of Death-esque rules.

It does push Death Guard into wanting to be close up and personal, especially early on.

Also, with this final reveal I am sticking to my gun that Plague Marines are going to be 21 points.

That sure is a thing

So the contagion ability is an expanding -1 Toughness aura. Shrug, it is ok but DG are too slow to make this super useful. It makes me feel like the blood angel’s fat and less loved younger brother. The BA are very fast and -1 to wound everything in combat.

 Eldarsif wrote:
Contagion of Nurgle is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/11/death-guard-rules-preview-part-5-contagions-of-nurgle/

So an aura that applies -1 to Toughness scores with a radius that increases in every round. It appears(so far) that Death Guard will not be receiving any Angels of Death-esque rules.

It does push Death Guard into wanting to be close up and personal, especially early on.

Also, with this final reveal I am sticking to my gun that Plague Marines are going to be 21 points.

Notice that the Contagions text seems to indicate that Nurgle's Gift is not the only Contagion in the book.

 puma713 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Contagion of Nurgle is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/11/death-guard-rules-preview-part-5-contagions-of-nurgle/

So an aura that applies -1 to Toughness scores with a radius that increases in every round. It appears(so far) that Death Guard will not be receiving any Angels of Death-esque rules.

It does push Death Guard into wanting to be close up and personal, especially early on.

Also, with this final reveal I am sticking to my gun that Plague Marines are going to be 21 points.

Notice that the Contagions text seems to indicate that Nurgle's Gift is not the only Contagion in the book.

"This unit gains the following ability" I.e. not select one of the following suggests thats it, don't get your hopes up.

Dudeface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Contagion of Nurgle is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/11/death-guard-rules-preview-part-5-contagions-of-nurgle/

So an aura that applies -1 to Toughness scores with a radius that increases in every round. It appears(so far) that Death Guard will not be receiving any Angels of Death-esque rules.

It does push Death Guard into wanting to be close up and personal, especially early on.

Also, with this final reveal I am sticking to my gun that Plague Marines are going to be 21 points.

Notice that the Contagions text seems to indicate that Nurgle's Gift is not the only Contagion in the book.

"This unit gains the following ability" I.e. not select one of the following suggests thats it, don't get your hopes up.

The whole box about Contagion Abilities seems to indicate otherwise. The language suggests that Nurgle's Gift isn't the only (Contagion). Otherwise, why have an entire block about Contagion Abilities, and qualify Nurgle's Gift as a (Contagion)?

Honestly I like it. Makes enemy melee more skittish about coming in range, makes DG better vs T7-8 since they can hit S6 and 8 pretty easy and might give Rhinos a places as a cheap troop hauler that casts an aura after dropping off it's cargo making the cargo's shooting stronger.

 puma713 wrote:

The whole box about Contagion Abilities seems to indicate otherwise. The language suggests that Nurgle's Gift isn't the only (Contagion). Otherwise, why have an entire block about Contagion Abilities, and qualify Nurgle's Gift as a (Contagion)?

Mortarion's datasheet seems to use the same wording. There are some named Plagues that are Warlord Trait equivalents apparently, maybe they are counted as Contagions?

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Honestly I like it. Makes enemy melee more skittish about coming in range, makes DG better vs T7-8 since they can hit S6 and 8 pretty easy and might give Rhinos a places as a cheap troop hauler that casts an aura after dropping off it's cargo making the cargo's shooting stronger.

But you lose access to all Allies for this rule and DG is SLOW as hell without making use of few Nurgle Daemon units (*cough* Nurglings)
Totally not convinced

Dudeface wrote:

 puma713 wrote:

 Eldarsif wrote:
Contagion of Nurgle is out.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/11/death-guard-rules-preview-part-5-contagions-of-nurgle/

So an aura that applies -1 to Toughness scores with a radius that increases in every round. It appears(so far) that Death Guard will not be receiving any Angels of Death-esque rules.

It does push Death Guard into wanting to be close up and personal, especially early on.

Also, with this final reveal I am sticking to my gun that Plague Marines are going to be 21 points.

Notice that the Contagions text seems to indicate that Nurgle's Gift is not the only Contagion in the book.

"This unit gains the following ability" I.e. not select one of the following suggests thats it, don't get your hopes up.

It may be particular characters or units having other Contagions in lieu of the default Nurgle's Gift, or maybe subfactions will unlock them. I have to agree though that the wording practically screams that Nurgle's Gift isn't the only one.

KurtAngle2 wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:
Honestly I like it. Makes enemy melee more skittish about coming in range, makes DG better vs T7-8 since they can hit S6 and 8 pretty easy and might give Rhinos a places as a cheap troop hauler that casts an aura after dropping off it's cargo making the cargo's shooting stronger.

But you lose access to all Allies for this rule and DG is SLOW as hell without making use of few Nurgle Daemon units (*cough* Nurglings)
Totally not convinced

I just mentioned Rhino Rush which would increase the army's overall movement.

Wargear stratagems could add some contagions as well.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I can't wait for Plague Marines to be 28 points each. It's divisible by 7, which is Nurgle's sacred number.

Well, so is 21.. and I would pay THAT in a heartbeat.. lol

Bloat drones move 10" and carry assault weapons, one of which Autohits and both happen to be the new sweet spot of S6. Can probably easily be getting them within 3" of whatever you want to get wounds through on in turn two.
They are going to be very useful with the new codex.