Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

Either way guess its time to move from original plan of having 4x7 to 3x10 now... I need to get a couple more of those smelly guys. wonder if I will get a 3rd rhino now...

That is... amazingly overly complicated.

Rules design needs to come from a competent _rules_ designer, not from what the sculpting team can fit on the sprue.

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

I got some bad news for ya, buddy...

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

Either way guess its time to move from original plan of having 4x7 to 3x10 now... I need to get a couple more of those smelly guys. wonder if I will get a 3rd rhino now...

I had a group of 7x7 PM, now i need one more for 5x10.. lol

Bothers me that they ditched the Sacred Number

 porkuslime wrote:
Oh good.. so the triple plasma squads I have are still valid, and I can add a few extra heavy weapons..

EDIT- Whats this about 7 strong PM Squads being gone?

Just the dakka equivalent of this:



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

Either way guess its time to move from original plan of having 4x7 to 3x10 now... I need to get a couple more of those smelly guys. wonder if I will get a 3rd rhino now...

You can just field units of 7 with 2 plasma guns and a blight launcher.

Well, my melee build of DG just got curb stomped into the ground. God fething damnit! I guess I'll have to start a boring fething cigarette marine team instead. If boring fething shooting is the game, then I want a team with OP shooting.

The flails alone is SO much worse now. They went from killing killing 4-18 models, to 3. Awesome!

Just finished some reviews and I have to say DG got a pretty good update with this codex.

If I'd play them, I would be very happy right now.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Just finished some reviews and I have to say DG got a pretty good update with this codex.

If I'd play them, I would be very happy right now.

Besides PM being better in an SM heavy meta, what's better with DG now as an army whole?

Fun fact: DG are now unable to take Abhor the Witch without paying CP

Lord Damocles wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

I got some bad news for ya, buddy...

GW is so sneaky man. Actually those easy build models were quite nice with a BL too.

porkuslime wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

Either way guess its time to move from original plan of having 4x7 to 3x10 now... I need to get a couple more of those smelly guys. wonder if I will get a 3rd rhino now...

I had a group of 7x7 PM, now i need one more for 5x10.. lol

Bothers me that they ditched the Sacred Number

Yeah the sacred number was always something unique and always felt like we should get some kind of buff for building around that number... but 7x7 wow you should get all the buffs and more thats a lot of PM!
Maybe they will include it back in the next dex.

Jidmah wrote:

 porkuslime wrote:
Oh good.. so the triple plasma squads I have are still valid, and I can add a few extra heavy weapons..

EDIT- Whats this about 7 strong PM Squads being gone?

Just the dakka equivalent of this:

Spoiler:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 NAVARRO wrote:
If they discontinue the easy build cheap PM so you can actually do a 10 man and they leave you with the overpriced (25£ for 3 models) PM reinforcement box as only option I will not be happy XD

Either way guess its time to move from original plan of having 4x7 to 3x10 now... I need to get a couple more of those smelly guys. wonder if I will get a 3rd rhino now...

You can just field units of 7 with 2 plasma guns and a blight launcher.

Yes I know I can do what I want etc but like I said not only its not a potential buff its simply non existent now... its actually going out of my way and out of the way how the codex was intended.
I liked your little football vid but you missed the point
More concerned with how can 10 fat PM fit on a rhino now

There literally was no benefit to running 7 plague marines with the old codex and you will lose nothing by switching to the new one. I really don't understand what the problem is here.

 NAVARRO wrote:

More concerned with how can 10 fat PM fit on a rhino now

I figured 5 inside, 2 on each outer hull along the exhausts and one laying on top...

well my brother definately wont be happy, he made a ton of dual knife plague marines

 warmaster21 wrote:
well my brother definately wont be happy, he made a ton of dual knife plague marines

For me, I have (had) a squad of 9 marines; 2 flails, 2 maces, 4 bubotic axes and one fist.
They rode in a Rhino with Tallyman. Super damn good.
Now, with the extremely nerfed flails and weapon count, that is a long lost memory.
I guess I'll have to yeet Tallyman out the window and instead take a 10 man squad with 2 flails, 2 maces, 2 big axes, 2 bubotic axes, 1 double knife and a PF champ.
In these times where EVERYONE seems to have a hard on for rolling less dice and creaming all over the thought of games taking less time, this goes against that directly.

Jidmah wrote:There literally was no benefit to running 7 plague marines with the old codex and you will lose nothing by switching to the new one. I really don't understand what the problem is here.

I think Its clear on my previous posts what is lost. The sacred number is no more and for some of DG players that build around that is mildly irritating. Forget the old players for a second now, your starting a new DG army explain to me why I need to buy 2 boxes of infantry to have one 10man unit? Thats a hard one to swallow if you are unaware that this box was done in the past with the sacred number in mind and now that its gone we are stuck with it.

Yes things move, legacy marines died, we need to rebase things to please Sigmar and all that Jazz and for the most part we do it and adapt. Its not A problem so to speak its more a little itch.
And Im done explaining this again XD

porkuslime wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:

More concerned with how can 10 fat PM fit on a rhino now

I figured 5 inside, 2 on each outer hull along the exhausts and one laying on top...

Mine will now need to move inside the containers I added to my silly rhinos

 Jidmah wrote:
I guess it can't hurt to have the actual rules here for the discussion:

Spoiler:

Oh good grief. Talk about taking No Model No Rules to its ultimate, and insane, conclusion. Silly question: looking at all the weapon options loyalist units like Sterngaurd and Vanguard Veterans have, do those kits actually have enough of each weapon to build those loadouts just from the kit? If not, I'm calling shenanigans.

Yeah, why are people whining about a number that is fluffy and reflects the limitations of the $60 basic troop box?

So silly, right

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Besides PM being better in an SM heavy meta, what's better with DG now as an army whole?

Let me ask a counter question:
What in the codex (Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Units, Wargear) is weaker than before?
DG lost some unit configurations and daemons. The rest got buffs in a lot of places without much of a points hike if any.

a_typical_hero wrote:

 Kall3m0n wrote:

Besides PM being better in an SM heavy meta, what's better with DG now as an army whole?

Let me ask a counter question:
What in the codex (Stratagems, Warlord Traits, Units, Wargear) is weaker than before?
DG lost some unit configurations and daemons. The rest got buffs in a lot of places without much of a points hike if any.

No DttFE, no universal FNP, in fact only FNP as a WL trait, no 4+ FNP as a WLT anymore, severe limitations on special weapons, severe limitations of HQ's, no granade bombardment strat, no VotLW.
Drones got nerfed, MBH got somewhat buffed even if they lost their smoke. Deadly Pathogens is meh at best, No more Aura of Rust, PM will melt and die like flies (fitingly enough) flies due to all MW running around everywhere.
Good luck trying to build melee DG now! And if the -probably fake- thing about not being able to include other psychers in your army turns out to be true... I hope I don't have to explain that to you.

Um, why are people saying seven man units are gone? There is a 7 man unit of PMs in the combat patrol box. Or is the box illegal for some other reason now then?

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Oh good grief. Talk about taking No Model No Rules to its ultimate, and insane, conclusion. Silly question: looking at all the weapon options loyalist units like Sterngaurd and Vanguard Veterans have, do those kits actually have enough of each weapon to build those loadouts just from the kit? If not, I'm calling shenanigans.

Vanguard can give everyone but the Sergeant the weapon options(although if you have spares from other kits, you can manage it). 4x TH/SS, 4x LC pairs, 4x BP/CCWs. Sergeant basically is Relic Blade/BP or Relic/PP.
Sternguard have a Power Sword or Chainsword and BP/PP/Grav Pistol for the Sergeant, 5x Boltguns for everyone, 2 of each Combi types(Plasma, Melta, Flamer, Grav), 1 of each Special(Flamer, Melta, Grav, Plasma), and 1 Heavy Flamer plus a Heavy Bolter and 2x Storm Bolters.

There's more options in the Sternguard for Sergeants than the sprue has but they line up with the old metal legacy guys...and I think GW considers it to be a covering their butts move with this line:

The Space Marine range is designed so that all of the plastic parts can be swapped between different kits. If you want your Sternguard Veteran Squad to include alternative heads then grab them from any other Space Marine plastic kit and they’ll fit. This allows the opportunity for truly unique collections of miniatures.
This plastic kit contains 120 components with which to make a 5 man Space Marine Sternguard Veteran Squad (and so much more!).

The Space Marine range is designed so that all of the plastic parts can be swapped between different kits. Depending on how they are assembled, this box set can make hundreds of varieties of Vanguard Veterans. If you want your squad to include alternative shoulder pads, heads or weapons then grab them from any other Space Marine plastic kit and they’ll fit. This allows the opportunity for truly unique collections of miniatures.

This plastic kit contains 98 components with which to make a 5 man Space Marine Vanguard Veteran Squad (and so much more!).

Not defending or anything for Death Guard, just informing.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Um, why are people saying seven man units are gone? There is a 7 man unit of PMs in the combat patrol box. Or is the box illegal for some other reason now then?

I guess not illegal if your ok with having 10 man unit represented as 6,7,8... but as far I could see on the new DEX previews only 5-10 is discriminated while the previous you had 5-7-10-15-20.

The new reboxed PM is also like that Patrol.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Um, why are people saying seven man units are gone? There is a 7 man unit of PMs in the combat patrol box. Or is the box illegal for some other reason now then?

Funny enough, you actually can't run all of the units in that box, since the extra 10 Poxwalkers can't be used in it. Nice one, GW.

 Grimtuff wrote:
Um, why are people saying seven man units are gone? There is a 7 man unit of PMs in the combat patrol box. Or is the box illegal for some other reason now then?

They're just complaining about the number of special weapons not being able to be optimized at the min 5 men. You need 10 for that.

So it's not about the number 7, it's really about the min number of plague marines needed to optimize their firepower.

Sarouan wrote:

 Grimtuff wrote:
Um, why are people saying seven man units are gone? There is a 7 man unit of PMs in the combat patrol box. Or is the box illegal for some other reason now then?

They're just complaining about the number of special weapons not being able to be optimized at the min 5 men. You need 10 for that.

So it's not about the number 7, it's really about the min number of plague marines needed to optimize their firepower.

So I can still take 7-strong units then? That’s all I care about.

 Jidmah wrote:
I guess it can't hurt to have the actual rules here for the discussion:

Spoiler:

No model = No rule writ stupid.

Voss wrote:
Rules design needs to come from a competent _rules_ designer, not from what the sculpting team can fit on the sprue.

Sadly we're playing the wrong game for that.

 Jidmah wrote:
I guess it can't hurt to have the actual rules here for the discussion:

Spoiler:

This is fething stupid. This is the ultimate No Model = No Rules I think I've seen. They basically eliminated SEVERAL configurations in the name of "what's in the kit". Who the hell can defend this?

 Kall3m0n wrote:
No DttFE, no universal FNP, in fact only FNP as a WL trait, no 4+ FNP as a WLT anymore, severe limitations on special weapons, severe limitations of HQ's, no granade bombardment strat, no VotLW.
Drones got nerfed, MBH got somewhat buffed even if they lost their smoke. Deadly Pathogens is meh at best, No more Aura of Rust, PM will melt and die like flies (fitingly enough) flies due to all MW running around everywhere.
Good luck trying to build melee DG now! And if the -probably fake- thing about not being able to include other psychers in your army turns out to be true... I hope I don't have to explain that to you.

You are enumerating things that changed. I asked which unit got worse. If you think Foetid Bloat-Drones and Plague Marines are worse than before, then you are assessing their value incorrectly.

What MW list are you referring to? How many MW can it reliably produce per round?


If you haven't done so already, I can recommend this review:
https://www.goonhammer.com/9th-edition-codex-death-guard-the-goonhammer-review/

This book makes me very frightened for what they're going to do to Chaos.

"A Squad of Havocs may have up to 4 heavy weapons, but no more than 1 Reaper Chaincannon, 2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Autocannons, 2 Missile Launchers or 2 Lascannons"

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
Who the hell can defend this?

You've been here long enough Slayer to know who will.

Ohhh boi this doesn't bode well....

Imagine the CSM terminator kit,
or better the chaos havocs feth you for wanting to field 4 reapers...

Also, chosen...

Guard squads? well no longer do you have plasma guns , feth everyone with plas guardsmen i guess.

Oldschool marine squads? See above...

This is virtually niveauless....




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
This book makes me very frightened for what they're going to do to Chaos.

"A Squad of Havocs may have up to 4 heavy weapons, but no more than 1 Reaper Chaincannon, 2 Heavy Bolters, 2 Autocannons, 2 Missile Launchers or 2 Lascannons"