Movies that were flat out ruined by a bad actor/character

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**Manchu**

Easy E wrote:
Most of the reason a movie is bad is because their is a grouping of things that all go together to make it bad. Nowadays, I am pretty excited to find competent and workman like movies, as so many just feel sloppily put together by committee.

Same! And even the ones assembled by committee can sometimes still be yeoman’s work. I just re-watched Pacific Rim Uprising, which I had not seen since it came out. I recall hating it after leaving the theater but having re-watched it, it is a genuinely solid B-movie.

**LunarSol**

Blackie wrote:
LunarSol wrote:

Like most things though, he ends up going nowhere in Rise. I'm mostly just crushed at all the wasted potential. All I really wanted from 9 was him and Force Ghost Luke. Is that really so much to ask?

I would have loved Rey becoming a true villain slaying Kylo and getting into the dark side, and ultimately defeated by Finn helped by the ghosts of past jedi; that would have saved the trilogy. Instead no, we saw the main villain redeeming himself at the end. Again.

I really like Finn's role in the Trevorrow script, leading a Stormtrooper rebellion. That's one of the many missed opportunities.

I don't think that script really knew what to do with Kylo and Rey though either sadly. I for one, was really hoping the actual final reveal there was that Luke had found Rey abandoned by her junkie parents and brought her back to the academy. Kylo, during his rampage finds her and in a "failed Vader" moment hides her on Jakku instead of killing the youngling. The best part being that we'd learn this from Luke who gets to taunt Kylo with the realization that he created his own foil.

I do think they needed to close out on something profound about the nature of the Dark Side though and unfortunately I think it was hard to do justice without Carrie Fisher. Ultimately though I think the big mistake was trying to kill Ben off. His character needed to end on more of a note of penance. A Jedi exile with some kind of altered connection to the Force that removes him as a threat but allows him to seek atonement through his connections to the darkness.

**Mr Morden**

Easy E wrote:
I really hate TLJ as it does not "Get" Star Wars at all and actively spits on the fans for liking Star Wars for what it is.......

..... BUT.....

..... It was the most interesting of the new movies by far. It was the only one that actually had something to say in any meaningful way.

So, I am torn like an old Sweater.

I hate TLJ due to its beyond poor charcters, plot and pacing and confused about the idea it had something to say?

The Original trilogy is just a fun adventure story - little more than that, the prequal is a duller, worse version. The sequals start wtih a poor mans Star Wars and then decend into the depths of poor filmaking in the TLJ

I saw no message, quality or attempt to "say something" - whatever that means in TLJ? What was it trying to say?

**hotsauceman1**

Honestly, the failing of the ST is that it didnt try to be anything at all.
It was made to be watched by everyone, be enjoyed by everyone. It didnt try to be about anything. It didnt try to tell a story other than good and evil and good winning.
It was bad because it was made to literally be just films made to cash in on Star Wars

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Compel wrote:
I kinda hate Big Bang Theory in general, but I always figured that Bernadette was being portrayed entirely as she was supposed to be. Like, she's supposed to be an intentional reflection of Howards mother.

Howards moether was meant to be a joke character used for jokes.
Bernadette is an actual person.

**Vulcan**

Matt Swain wrote:

I think you're overlooking the fact this occurs in the star wars universe. Apparently when one side of the force is waning, it gets a ringer to bring it back in play and keep the endless cycle going. So the jedi were on top for a long time so a 'chosen one' was sent to restore balance to the force, and yep, he did, by boosting the dark side.

The luke gets plopped in as the guy to bring the light side back. So along comes kylo. So the light side gets a ringer on their side. Maybe the light side will be on top for a while until the dark side gets its next champion.

All this makes me wonder if force users really have free will, or does the force make them go light or dark to keep the cycle going? If one side is dominant for a while, the other apparently gets a paladin to bring it back to prominence. Is that person fated to be on one side without any choice, or does the force pick people who were most likely to choose one side and kind of tip them in the direction they were already inclined towards? If Anikin really had no choice about becoming Mr. Dark Side is that why he got into force heaven despite his horrible crimes? Hmmm, makes one wonder...

But as to rei, her force powers seemed to be reactive to her situation. She siurvived by scavenging tech gear so maybe the force gave her an innate ability to understand machines and use them.

When exposed to a force power, it seemed to trigger hers to go active. Ren tried to mind probe her, her force powers responded reflexively to block him. Having been exposed to an attempt at mind powers, she developed her own in response. When ren used force pull near her, her force powers mimicked his.

Plus rei was palpatine's granddaughter, and it looks like palpy was the most potent force user in the storyline. Since force owers seem to go in family bloodlines it's not inconsistent hers would be high level.

The problem with that is... well, all the Sith Lords trained apprentices and the Jedi Masters trained padawans for MILLENNIUM. Obi-Wan required training to consciously use force powers; Anakin required training to consciously use force powers; Ahsoka Tano required training; Luke needed training; Kylo Ren required training; we presume Yoda and Palpatine and Mace Windu and Qui-Gon and all the rest of the Sith and Jedi required training to consciously use force powers. Note that the people you point out as 'chosen Force balancers' are all on that list...

EXCEPT REY.

Rey uses force powers consciously with no training and no explanation. She also flies the Millennium Falcon every bit as well as Han Solo or Lando Calrissian the (presumed) fist time she gets into it. Yeah, she's shown to be able to fight well with a quarterstaff. That gives her zero experience fighting with a lightsaber, and yet she beats the main villain of the trilogy within minutes with this weapon she's never used in a fight before, a weapon that is very awkwardly balanced and has immense potential to harm or even kill an inexperienced wielder.

Seriously. Take a broomstick and swing it around a bit. Then get a big Maglight (with batteries), tape a yardstick to it and swing THAT around. Handles completely differently, yes? All that weight in the handle tends to drag the 'blade' around in unexpected directions. If your combat reflexes are geared toward using a quarterstaff, you're going to use that lightsaber in a similar way and likely remove parts of your anatomy.

But Rey 'downloads the Force' and not only survives, but wins decisively.

Really, that sort of BS makes the sequel trilogy in general, and TFA in particular, feel like someone's playing a Matrix-style videogame of Star Wars and enabling cheat codes whenever challenged by the game.

**LunarSol**

The ST is just about inherited legacy. Expectation. Fandom and how those things can twist us into the worst versions of ourselves. The two main stars are literally OT superfans.

7 probably does the cleanest job of that, even if it plays it way too safe, 8 spins it back the other way and tries too hard to subvert it, and 9 ends up sitting on the fence having thoroughly given up.

**Vulcan**

LunarSol wrote:
The ST is just about inherited legacy. Expectation. Fandom and how those things can twist us into the worst versions of ourselves. The two main stars are literally OT superfans.

7 probably does the cleanest job of that, even if it plays it way too safe, 8 spins it back the other way and tries too hard to subvert it, and 9 ends up sitting on the fence having thoroughly given up.

Probably the best explanation of the ST so far. KT, JJ, and RJ actively and pointedly making fun of those stupid geeks and their stupid movies. The 2010's equivalent of the jocks and preppies that made fun of Star Wars fans back in the late seventies and through the eighties because we were different. Now the whole thing makes perfect sense.

No less insulting, mind you...

**Grimskul**

The sooner they expel the ST from being canon, the better. As is, it passively undermines the Skywalker narrative of Anakin balancing the force of the first two trilogies and actively ruins any post OT creations since it inevitably leads to the ST.

**gorgon**

Vulcan wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
The ST is just about inherited legacy. Expectation. Fandom and how those things can twist us into the worst versions of ourselves. The two main stars are literally OT superfans.

7 probably does the cleanest job of that, even if it plays it way too safe, 8 spins it back the other way and tries too hard to subvert it, and 9 ends up sitting on the fence having thoroughly given up.

Probably the best explanation of the ST so far. KT, JJ, and RJ actively and pointedly making fun of those stupid geeks and their stupid movies. The 2010's equivalent of the jocks and preppies that made fun of Star Wars fans back in the late seventies and through the eighties because we were different. Now the whole thing makes perfect sense.

No less insulting, mind you...

Well thankfully nerd-dom really distinguished itself with its thoughtful, totally not man-child-hissy-fit-nerd-rage reactions to those films. Really showed those bullies that geeks aren’t a weird obsessive lot.

**Voss**

Grimskul wrote:
The sooner they expel the ST from being canon, the better. As is, it passively undermines the Skywalker narrative of Anakin balancing the force of the first two trilogies and actively ruins any post OT creations since it inevitably leads to the ST.

That really isn't a reasonable expectation. It is canon now. The best you can really hope for at all is they start ignoring the 'skywalker era' entirely for their new 'centuries ago' period.
But there is too much money wrapped up in the three trilogies and associated properties, so they'll keep awkwardly providing content for it.

**Vulcan**

gorgon wrote:
Vulcan wrote:
LunarSol wrote:
The ST is just about inherited legacy. Expectation. Fandom and how those things can twist us into the worst versions of ourselves. The two main stars are literally OT superfans.

7 probably does the cleanest job of that, even if it plays it way too safe, 8 spins it back the other way and tries too hard to subvert it, and 9 ends up sitting on the fence having thoroughly given up.

Probably the best explanation of the ST so far. KT, JJ, and RJ actively and pointedly making fun of those stupid geeks and their stupid movies. The 2010's equivalent of the jocks and preppies that made fun of Star Wars fans back in the late seventies and through the eighties because we were different. Now the whole thing makes perfect sense.

No less insulting, mind you...

Well thankfully nerd-dom really distinguished itself with its thoughtful, totally not man-child-hissy-fit-nerd-rage reactions to those films. Really showed those bullies that geeks aren’t a weird obsessive lot.

Tell the jocks that being the quarterback of the high-school football team isn't the be-all, end-all of existence sometime if you want to see a 'thoughtful, totally not man-child-hissy-fit rage reaction'....

**Easy E**

Sure, I love to bash Star Wars as much as the next nerd..... but can we be done with it now. If we want to keep beating on Star Wars, maybe a new thread?

I would love to nominate some other movie or role for us to talk about.... but I really can't. You see, I feel that most Actors are at the whims of the director, editors, and scripts. There is only so much you can do with a bad script.

How about this, in the movie Haywire Gina Carano is the main character. However, I just do not think she has the chops to pull it off yet.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1506999/

**hotsauceman1**

Ok totally diferrent matter.
Mike Baxter in Last Man Standing. All the characters and actors are funny and hilarious. The writers are clearly a funny and talented lot.
However with it clearly being a vehicle for Tim Allens political views(He even has a straw man liberal SIL to tear down) and with allen writing too, barring a few episodes, he is always written to bein in the right and to be the good all american man.
I would love that show if it wasnt for Tim/Mike

**gorgon**

Easy E wrote:
Sure, I love to bash Star Wars as much as the next nerd..... but can we be done with it now. If we want to keep beating on Star Wars, maybe a new thread?

I would love to nominate some other movie or role for us to talk about.... but I really can't. You see, I feel that most Actors are at the whims of the director, editors, and scripts. There is only so much you can do with a bad script.

How about this, in the movie Haywire Gina Carano is the main character. However, I just do not think she has the chops to pull it off yet.

https://www.imdb.com/title/tt1506999/

IMO, she's just not a very good actress. A lot of fans wanted her for Wonder Woman...but I think the casting director made the right call there.

**Blackie**

In fact she's not a real actress but actually I don't really dislike her, she's excellent for B movies or cameos. I was satisfied with her performance in Almost Human, The Mandalorian, Deadpool, Fast and Furious and Knockout.

She'll never be any good for an oscar winning movie or a protagonist role in a big franchise but I think she has proven that she can get appropriate roles for her acting qualities.

**Manchu**

LunarSol wrote:
Like most things though, he ends up going nowhere in Rise. I'm mostly just crushed at all the wasted potential. All I really wanted from 9 was him and Force Ghost Luke. Is that really so much to ask?

No, that was a completely reasonable ask. My ask is a little more daring: Luke and Force Ghost Anakin in Episode VIII.

As for a film “ruined” by a bad performance? I don’t really think that’s a thing. A bad performance can detract from a film but it takes a confluence of issues to really ruin one. For example, Natalie Portman is awful in Annihilation. But the script sure isn’t helping the actress on that one, either. And the confused, directionless final act is the real stake-through-the-heart for the film. Same actress is really bad in the first Thor movie but, again, there’s alot more going wrong there than just Portman being boring.

I think at best a certain casting or performance can detract from a film but I agree with Eric that this one thing isn’t going to really by itself sink a film.

**Xenomancers**

LunarSol wrote:
I don't blame anyone's acting in the prequel movies. Given how many actually great actors there are in those films bumbling out clunky lines left and right, I think its pretty clearly a fault of the script and directing.

Totally Agree. Ewan and Portman are both well above average actors. "Well hello there!" that is just a dumb line no matter how bad you slice it.

Sometimes a bad actor can make a movie great...like Nick Cage in "Kick Ass".

To the Op's question? Anything Kevin James is in.

**Mr Morden**

No single actor ruins TLJ (or indeed the prequals) - its a combination of terrible characters, lazy writing, awful pacing and shockingly bad Director that combines to congeal in a dire mess that makes no sense in terms of its own internal narrative. Stuff just happens cos thats the next scene. So its not really relevant to the OP - its all bad so any bad performances are subsumed in one mass of gak.

totally not man-child-hissy-fit-nerd-rage reactions to those films

Of course many who voiced their dislike actually had to pay to go and see it unlike the critics whose job it is to do so and who universely worshipped it.

(Still waiting for someone to tell me anything that it tired to "say something"....which sounds like something the paid critics parroted)

It was made to be watched by everyone, be enjoyed by everyone. It didnt try to be about anything. It didnt try to tell a story other than good and evil and good winning. It was bad because it was made to literally be just films made to cash in on Star Wars

Except it wasn't - its a tedious and dull film that plods along and occassionally something happens to keep awake - jusy about.

TLJ is very different to Superman vs Batman where one character is awful in every scene he is in - which was apparently the actors choice but the Director must have been complicit and said yep "thats the Lex Luthor" I want in my film/story.

There is also the actor or actress that good or bad still ruins it for a person - I do not enjoy Jim Cary - but that just means I don't watch his films so in that sense they are ruined for me by his prescence but thats a ultra personel viewpoint - although I am sure that others have "that" actor or actress they dont want to watch? Seems so from the thread.

**BobtheInquisitor**

TLJ tried to say a few things. It tried to re-mystify the force and remove the unfortunate bloodline aspect to it. It tried to demonstrate that the masters must never believe that have learned everything/cannot be surpassed. It tried to say something about who really benefits from unending political (religious?) conflict. It tried to say something about putting unhealthy trust in larger than life heroes.

Now, it failed, but at least it tried. I give it three happy face stickers out of five just on effort alone. TLJ: best of the sequel trilogy, an embarrassing failure.

**Just Tony**

How the hell did this turn into almost exclusively a Sequel Trilogy hate thread?

And I love this forum, for the record. Who would have imagined that as many times as Mr. Morden and I have clashed over "Loopy Lex" that we'd find common ground in a mutual hatred of Jim Carrey.

**BobtheInquisitor**

Are we talking just Batman Forever and beyond Jim Carey or all of his performances?

**insaniak**

BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are we talking just Batman Forever and beyond Jim Carey or all of his performances?

Aside from a couple of serious roles, is there a difference?

**Mr Morden**

Just Tony wrote:
How the hell did this turn into almost exclusively a Sequel Trilogy hate thread?

And I love this forum, for the record. Who would have imagined that as many times as Mr. Morden and I have clashed over "Loopy Lex" that we'd find common ground in a mutual hatred of Jim Carrey.

As I said I don't think the Star Wars sequals are that relevant as its a group effort to make thme as bad as they are rather than one persons contribution.

Are we talking just Batman Forever and beyond Jim Carey or all of his performances?

All those I have seen which is not that many as now I am ageing I seldom watch things I don't enjoy - not enough time left.

However I would not say i hate him - just don't like his style same as I won;t watch a Christpher Nolan film because I don't like them

**Henry**

Mr Morden wrote:
All those I have seen which is not that many as now I am ageing I seldom watch things I don't enjoy - not enough time left.

Some of his stuff really hasn't aged well at all. I leave you to process how the "I kissed a man!" scene works for you in the modern age.

But... The Truman Show and Liar Liar are both excellent films. A lot of good comedy from men comes from using the man-child as the focus. When you take too much child and not enough man you end up with most of Carrey's offerings (also see Will Ferrell, Adam Sandler, etc.). These two movies emphasise the man with just enough child showing through. They're warm movies with strong scripts, tight themes and excellent supporting casts, and they keep Carrey restrained enough that his humour shows but doesn't dominate the story.

**Grey Templar**

Yeah, he's basically alright when he isn't the one in charge and dominating the production. Which basically means his earlier work and anything coming out recently is going to be hot garbage.

**BobtheInquisitor**

insaniak wrote:
BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Are we talking just Batman Forever and beyond Jim Carey or all of his performances?

Aside from a couple of serious roles, is there a difference?

I enjoyed him in Ace Ventura 2. Most of my friends thought he was perfect for The Mask, although that was honestly when I started to tire of his ‘unsanctioned buffoonery’.

Around the Truman Show is when it felt like he crawled up his own rear and started producing more cringe than joy.

**creeping-deth87**

A little late to the discussion but it warms my heart how many people in this thread hated Bernadette's character in BBT. I stopped watching the show shortly after she became a series regular. Not just because of her, as I think the show really took a nose dive after that amazing second season, but she was definitely a huge part of why I stopped. I just couldn't stand her at all, and the couple of times in the past I've gauged fan reaction to her online I was absolutely bewildered how many people liked her character.

**LunarSol**

I always found it a little mean spirited. Look at these weird people to laugh at kind of humor.

**BobtheInquisitor**

LunarSol wrote:
I always found it a little mean spirited. Look at these weird people to laugh at kind of humor.

It’s a little dispiriting when you can draw a 1-1 mapping of three of the four characters onto one’s self and friends. And the fourth wasn’t too far off.

Good thing we can all laugh at ourselves.

**Vulcan**

Mr Morden wrote:
No single actor ruins TLJ (or indeed the prequals)

Indeed, I would argue the actors, in general, did the best they could with the garbage scripts they were handed and the mediocre direction they received. The problem was 'their best' was not ever going to be enough to save the ST from the rest of it's problems.