Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I have not been able to muster the desire to buy into 9th. After some soul searching I have come to the conclusion that I am simple overwhelmed with Imperials. I do not fault the players. People play what they like. And I wont shame a space marine player for playing a army he/she wants to. But as a non-imperial player I have been driven away by the overwhelming rules bias, release bias and attention bias the imperial side of the game enjoys. Knowing this is a business I do not fault GW for going for the quick buck. Thats what a corporation does. But GW is losing customers little by little. Of the several players I have kept in contact with, one has also fallen out of the game due to this same fact. So we are not many, but it is happening.

The point of this post, is to ask that if anyone has been getting overwhelmed as well? If so, how are you handling it?

Also, looking at the background lore forum, most of the posts are imperial in nature. Perhaps is cognitive bias on my part, but it used to seem that the lore section was a decent mix of xenos and imperial posts. Once more, please, imperial players, do not take this as a insult to your choice of army boys/girls/aliens.

I've been in the hobby for 20 years. One constant I've seen is that many many people take frequent breaks for a variety of reasons.

Their faction is weak. A faction is too strong. A meta is stale. A core mechanic is unfun. Characters are too good. Vehicles are too good. Vehicles are awful. Forgeworld is OP. Forgeworld is too expensive. My faction hasn't had a codex in three editions, and I feel left out. Annual price hikes have placed me out of the hobby...

etc, etc, etc...

But the thing about 40k. The models don't really go anywhere. Some people sell out, but I feel like most people keep their armies tucked in a closet, basement, or at a friend's house who they used to play with.

But the models are still there. The lore is still there. It's a wide open hobby with tons of room for imprinting yourself on your collection, and it will imprint itself onto you.

So sure, Imperial is getting all of the love, and maybe that's enough to make you bow out. Maybe GW will surprise us in a year or two and draw you back in.

Whatever you choose to do, we'll be here when you get back.

Perhaps Marines and Imperials get a lot of attention, however sometimes the attention they get gets magnified, repeated, boosted and such online to the point where a modest imbalance becomes a major problem; a modest number of extra models becomes dominant etc..

So sometimes focusing on a negative aspect will start to magnify it in your mind. What starts out a mole hill becomes a mountain. What begins as something you can deal with becomes insurmountable; or overcoming it requires far more effort than you want to put into your hobby interest.


Heck didn't Necrons also get some fantastic models with Indomitus, right alongside the marines. Heck personally I'd say Necrons got more good models than Marines this time around (Marines got a go-kart ).

Rules are a hotbed of opinions and its important to remember that lots of people are wrong. Flat out wrong. They might have impressions from few games; only theory; or just have a bias in their viewpoint that they don't realise. It doesn't mean the rules don't have issues ,but it doesn't mean every issue is correct.




And then there's another layer which is hobby burn-out. We ALL get that. It's when we've burned out on the hobby and its lost its shine, its draw and attraction. This can be when we start to make a lot of mountains and some people can get really hostile about problems or issues that they see. It doesn't mean the problems aren't problems, its just that when coupled to a natural burn-out people have less joy to latch onto and they keep shifting the blame around for why they can't enjoy what they once did.

In the end its often that the game is no different now to when it was back when it was fun; they've just changed a bit as a person.








So a break is natural. This might mean a new army (eg xenos); a new game (AoS) or perhaps a new company (Infinity/Malifaux/Warmachine/Hordes/etc...) or even a new hobby entirely (sailing, photography, hiking, knitting - whatever). Sometimes a nice bit of time away can help you re-set mentally.


We've all taken breaks - some might be a few days; some might be years.

There has never been a time within the last 15+ years that the game was not primarily catered to Imperial armies.

As for the idea that GW is losing customers, though? Objectively that just isn't true. GW has made more money in the past three years than at any other point in its history.

I think they are focusing on marines a lot but part of that is what should have been 1 release gets stretched out to 20, they could really have all the chapter rules in 1 book, but they can make more off of a core marine book and then a bunch of supplements and then stretching out the releases.

I have several times walked away from the game for a while, burnout is normal and taking a break before it gets to bad is a good idea.

I am glad that they seem to be at least interweaving other factions in the releases(a moment of silence for our delayed deathguard brothers) instead of all the marines then everyone else. Honestly sometimes having to wait a little while into the edition is better as generally the first few codex's tend to be bad compared to what comes later. Look at 8th edition marines up until the late 8th codex(brokenly OP), they were terrible.

In general my interest in the hobby I have found is based more about myself and whats happening on my life than the hobby itself.

With the exception of some very dark times where really warhammer was too bad to enjoy it (end of 7th and birth of AoS), the rest of the time it was just good enough to have fun with it.

And I believe that applies to most people. But when we have less interest in the hobby for personal reasons normally we rationalize it with reasons from within our hobbies.

For example when I'm in a hobby motivational streak and GW previews new models and armies I'm like "OMG I WANT THAT SO BAD!" but when I'm more disconnected I watch some previews and those miniatures just don't speak anything to me.

You certainly aren't alone, dude. Talking amongst my (pretty limited) circle (hard to play 40k when you're on opposite sides of the world), I think there's a pretty universal expression of rules fatigue.

8th started out pretty brilliantly - with the indexes, GW showed they know how to make a pretty balanced, fun game. It wasn't perfect, but I think a really large proportion of people would say it's the healthiest 40k has been in a long time. Now we're three years down the line, and re-doing codexes, and already GW are throwing in campaigns, suppliments and all kinds of other nonsense. 9th, and the point values for 9th were a disaster on launch - a launch they had extra time to work on, and were honestly under no pressure except from themselves to put out.
I've not tried 9th yet. And straight up, the reason is that as a pretty casual player, I've got no idea at all which pdfs, which eratta, which point values, which faqs I need to be using. I don't know if the errors in the English documents are going to be present in the Japanese ones, and I don't know if they'll be corrected, or indeed if there are a host of different errors.

The release schedule, too, is utterly relentless. It's unhealthy. The bitterness coming from practially all corners - guard, xenos, chaos is really a sign of how unhealthy the community is getting. I remember when I got into the hobby, it was about 2015, and GW re-booted a bunch of the marine kits. We're now 5 years down the line, and GW still hasn't stopped re-booting, only now they're making them bigger. When a single faction gets some love, it's great, and GW have put out some beautiful non-marine minis, especially GSC, TS, Admech etc. But every army compared to marines, as a range? Is just utterly, utterly dwarfed. It's really a testimony to how unrelentingly bloated the marine range continues to be, that even a release like the necrons feels like mere table scraps, because at every turn, marines still get more. And we know there are absolutely no signs of slowing down, because of all the half-released boxset units (jump-pack autocannon guys etc.), all the blurry photos that get leaked showing yet another transport/speeder/hover abomination.
And on top of that, GW have been hiking prices constantly.

It's very true that financially, GW are killing it. They report year-on-year profits, growth, etc. But I think that we're beginning to see, too, how fast, for a really BIG proportion of the community, that all the goodwill from the few really good decisions GW have made in the past 5-10 years are starting to sour for a lot of players.

This is the first edition where I've barely glanced at the rules. First edition I've not even bought the Space Marine codex. I've started doing the other parts of the hobby - building, painting, etc. much, much more imo, but you're certainly not alone in your burnout.

The point of this post, is to ask that if anyone has been getting overwhelmed as well? If so, how are you handling it?

Not really overwhelmed, but i think everybody is tired of the non-stop marine (primaris) releases.

As humans we self identify with the imperium by and large as it is also the perspective the story is told from.

As for 9th overall, i was only lukewarm on 8th to begin with, after reading the rules for 9th and watching it being played it is to different of a game than what i liked about 40K in it's previous editions so i have zero interest in playing it and after spending the thousands of dollars i have already on pre-primaris/pre-8th ed armies i am more than happy keeping all my old books & minis and playing an older edition with friends.

 posermcbogus wrote:
8th started out pretty brilliantly - with the indexes, GW showed they know how to make a pretty balanced, fun game.

That's really interesting to me because I remember a loooot of complaints regarding how barebones the indexes were, as well complaints that they didn't have any flavor that brought the factions to life on the tabletop.

I have been getting overwhelmed with the pace of GW releases lately. Not just Imperium or 40k but in general. It has been nice, as compared to ye olde days, but the escalation has gotten to the point where it feels a bit relentless. I kind of wish they would slow down. But that's just me.

Also yeah, I am also burned out by Space Marine releases but that's both common and old news for most of us I imagine.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BlaxicanX wrote:

 posermcbogus wrote:
8th started out pretty brilliantly - with the indexes, GW showed they know how to make a pretty balanced, fun game.

That's really interesting to me because I remember a loooot of complaints regarding how barebones the indexes were, as well complaints that they didn't have any flavor that brought the factions to life on the tabletop.

People are also justifiably more forgiving of a book where GW says 'hey this is just to keep things going until the proper army update' verses an actual codex.

I definitely feel, and I say this as someone who generally likes all the Primaris releases, that Marines have had too much of a focus lately and more studio focus needs to be spent on other armies.

Off the top of my head: Eldar Aspects need to be redone, Guard need their core kits redone, Tyranids could use a core refresh for Gaunts and Stealers, and Orks need their infantry refreshed and updated as well.

So while I like chonky Marines, the game definitely needs to send some love to other armies for an edition.

I mean, Necrons just got some great stuff and Chaos is routinely getting goodies right and left (mostly Death Guard lately). It really just feels like Orks, Tau and DEldar are the ones left mostly in the cold (and DEldar are about to get some stuff!).

There's been a lot of Marine stuff and I might've agreed they were getting too much focus back in June, but it's levelled out mostly O.K. since then I think (I say this as an Imperial, but not Space Marine, player).

Audustum wrote:
I mean, Necrons just got some great stuff and Chaos is routinely getting goodies right and left (mostly Death Guard lately). It really just feels like Orks, Tau and DEldar are the ones left mostly in the cold (and DEldar are about to get some stuff!).

There's been a lot of Marine stuff and I might've agreed they were getting too much focus back in June, but it's levelled out mostly O.K. since then I think (I say this as an Imperial, but not Space Marine, player).

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

For myself, with all the ridiculous units marines have been getting just kinda made me not want to play my Salamanders. we finally get a unit that is very Salamander(eradicators) and they give it rules to end all rules, just takes the fun out of it. I actually preferred when primaris sucked and had more fun facing an uphill battle every game. now, it's almost you don't need to try. so for the foreseeable future the 18th will just be a display army & I'm focusing on Flawless Host, Bloody Rose & Metalica.

Gee GW, you sure know how to take the fun out of playing Loyalists!

Racerguy180 wrote:
For myself, with all the ridiculous units marines have been getting just kinda made me not want to play my Salamanders. we finally get a unit that is very Salamander(eradicators) and they give it rules to end all rules, just takes the fun out of it. I actually preferred when primaris sucked and had more fun facing an uphill battle every game. now, it's almost you don't need to try. so for the foreseeable future the 18th will just be a display army & I'm focusing on Flawless Host, Bloody Rose & Metalica.

Gee GW, you sure know how to take the fun out of playing Loyalists!

I'm starting Black Templars finally (after years of pointless waffling), so at least I get to handicap myself with melee.

But yeah, they did a good job fixing some things, but the Eradicators are broken as is. And I feel like they overshot on the Aggressor nerfs.

yeah, a happy medium between the two would've been much preferred, but alas....GDUBS GONNA GDUBS.

it's kinda why I stopped working on my ynarri, gonna forget about them for another year.

but, burnout is a thing and my wallet is saying NO. so I'll just play with the stuff I already have while lavishly painting all of my Salamanders to a higher level(which is what I most enjoy, what can I say, I love green)

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Going purely by "number of kits listed on the GW site" Necrons are third behind Craftworlders and Orks. Tau are fifth, behind Tyranids.

By datasheets Tau have 38 in the Codex to the Necrons' 51. Imperial Armour doesn't narrow the gap much, that brings the Tau up to 49 to the Necrons' 60.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Going purely by "number of kits listed on the GW site" Necrons are third behind Craftworlders and Orks. Tau are fifth, behind Tyranids.

I knew Nids would be up there, but I honestly thought Tau had more than Crons. Probably because they had releases in two editions while most of the other Xenos barely got anything.

Tau have almost no random resin characters, and they have a really sparse roster since all the suits have such flexible loadouts by comparison to the single-loadout Eldar or the two-loadout Necrons.

I share some of the sentiment but it's not really the Imperials that tire me, but the endless flow of new Space Marines. Nothing would make me more happy than to see a proper Astra Militarum release or something similar as it would break up the current flow of "Men in Power Armor". I don't even collect or play AM, but seeing new units and a model refresh would be an awesome boost for the hobby.

Personally I find the amount of Space Marine releases and the amount of campaign books to be too high currently as I feel like I am drowning in books. Just the Psychic Awakening release fills a whole shelf, and having the rule set fractured just gets tiring. At this point it feels a bit like a full time job to be a Space Marine player because the release schedule for that faction is so frequent and rapid that there is always a new model/unit to assemble and pain, and it just leaves less and less time for other factions or specialist games. It's why I've decided to not enter the Space Marine arms race this edition as I'd really like to paint some of my other armies.

I have seen a small exodus of 40k players moving to AoS as AoS doesn't have the same relentless avalanche and Stormcast don't have the same clout as Space Marines do. However, with the new Broken Realms book I do fear we'll end up seeing a Psychic Awakening-esque release schedule and we'll see some of the exhaustion from 40k move into AoS.

I have been getting overwhelmed with the pace of GW releases lately. Not just Imperium or 40k but in general. It has been nice, as compared to ye olde days, but the escalation has gotten to the point where it feels a bit relentless. I kind of wish they would slow down. But that's just me.

Same here. I used to be interested in the specialist games and other GW experiments, but with the current pace of releases I just don't have the time for it.I would have to completely live and breathe Warhammer and not work to enjoy the current output of GW stuff.

Currently I am testing the waters in Star Wars Legion. Just something to break away from the GW community a bit and to avoid complete and utter burnout. I would also say that COVID has probably not helped much when it comes to feeling burned out in regards to the hobby.

I feel like Sisters should have helped break up the feeling that it's been a never ending stream of Marines, but then they were followed almost immediately by more Marines stuff.

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

ccs wrote:

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Tau are the best supported Xenos model wise. What they need is a rework on the rules. Maybe something that let's them make shooting attacks instead of melee attacks.

Tau is..... an odd way to spell Necron.

Necrons just got a massive model expansion and update, sure, but I'm almost positive that Tau have a wider range of unit options across the board.

Going purely by "number of kits listed on the GW site" Necrons are third behind Craftworlders and Orks. Tau are fifth, behind Tyranids.

By datasheets Tau have 38 in the Codex to the Necrons' 51. Imperial Armour doesn't narrow the gap much, that brings the Tau up to 49 to the Necrons' 60.

Not a good idea to go by "kits listed" on GW's site since they list the same unit a number of times with different names. Orkz for example have Morkanaut and Gorkanaut listed but its the same box, same for Meganobz and the Mega armor Big Mek, same box. Same with the Dakkajet, Burna Bommer, Wazbom and Blitza Bommer. They also have the Smasha, Bubble-Chucka, KMK and Traktor kannon listed. So those right there make up 12 "Kits listed" but are actually 4.

SemperMortis wrote:
...Not a good idea to go by "kits listed" on GW's site since they list the same unit a number of times with different names. Orkz for example have Morkanaut and Gorkanaut listed but its the same box, same for Meganobz and the Mega armor Big Mek, same box. Same with the Dakkajet, Burna Bommer, Wazbom and Blitza Bommer. They also have the Smasha, Bubble-Chucka, KMK and Traktor kannon listed. So those right there make up 12 "Kits listed" but are actually 4.

Kits listed isn't a good proxy for kits released, no, but it's a good proxy for "amount of rules content" given that dual/triple/quad kits tend to have two/three/four datasheets.

 posermcbogus wrote:


8th started out pretty brilliantly - with the indexes, GW showed they know how to make a pretty balanced, fun game. It wasn't perfect, but I think a really large proportion of people would say it's the healthiest 40k has been in a long time.

Says who? I don't know a single person who loved indexes, we all hated them. IMHO it was the worst experience of 40k ever, but I could be biased as the 3 armies I owned had terrible indexes, and I've seen the first codex only after 10 months of 8th edition. 9th edition mechanics are also FAR better than 8th ones, by a significant margin. Indexes or not.

I wouldn't go so far as LOVED, but I LIKED the indexes. They're also where I drew my GW line in the sand, as there did seem to be some measure of balance.

Selfcontrol wrote:


The rest of your post is just whiney. But then, when I take a good look at the General section, I guess this is where you are supposed to whine.

Nevertheless, I expect at least 10 solid pages of pointless ""debate"" (extra "" are mandatory since by no mean we are debating here).

What he said was accurate, though. If you're not part of.the cult of consumption wrt Primaris right now 40k is insufferable.

Whatever you choose to do, we'll be here when you get back.

Yeah, choose your reason why you wanna leave.
We'll be here and catch you when you will be back.
Just let us know.

Currently I am testing the waters in Star Wars Legion. Just something to break away from the GW community a bit and to avoid complete and utter burnout.

i hit the burnout point with the release of 6th. at that point i only had 40K, B5 wars, BFG and classic battletech. i shelved 40K for about a year and got into infinity, warmachine, victory at sea, forces of valor battle tactics (1:32 scale WWII skirmish). more recently i added DUST and monpoc.

I highly recommend stepping away from GW for some variety. there are some truly great games out there that you miss if you stay focus on GW products.