Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you: No adverts like this in the forums anymore. Times and dates in your local timezone. Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance. Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely. Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net. If you are already a member then feel free to login now.

I tested the app after the update again and it is not as horrible as before. Actually you can imagine it being in a spot that would be worthwile if they only modified the monetization strategy. There are notably fewer bugs, but some still exist. For example, you cannot deequip Wych weapons, or cannot include Yvraine in a non-Ynnari Detachment.

There are some things that are clunky UI-wise - for example warlords powers, psychic powers and relics are really hidden. I thought their omission was a bug, it was only the tutorial video that made me realize the options were there all the time, just very well hidden. If you need a tutorial video for this, your UI design is clearly not up to the task. Otherwise ithe UI is clean and professionally made. Maybe in a couple of month the app will be usable. And if you spend the money to have full access, on mobile, it will be superior to BattleScribe. BattleScribe has to be more versatile, so the the user experience for a single gaming system can never be as good as an app that is designed for just this task. BattleScribe has still its own niche, though: It is free, it has a Desktop version, it has a more detailed army list generator. I see no reason why the two systems cannot coexist.

But I don't think it is true that GW cannot go after BattleScribe. It is surely more difficult than going after armybuilder, but they can if they want to. They can notify BattleScribe, that the 40k ressource files infringe their copyright and that BS has to do something about it. At the very least they have to remove the 40k repository from the automatic updater or have to use other technicals means to ban the infringing content. If BS fails to do so, GW can go after them directly. Similar to Twitch being liable if they don't enforce that streamers don't use copyrighted background music. Another attack vector would be to go after the Github repository directly. The same logic applies: The content infringes GWs copyright, so Microsoft has to shut it down, once it is aware of the situation. At the very least they disrupt the infrastructure of the community and prevent further updates for a time.

That the 40k repo infringes GWs copyright is pretty obvious. Were it only point values and unit names, the case would be more difficult to make. But since special rules are copied verbatim, it is pretty unambiguous, at least in the EU.

I just went back to the app after a few days. My original army list disappeared. I tried to rebuild it and every time I touched the options for the Farseer, the app would close. This product from the beginning has been rife with errors, shut downs, and lack of functionality. I support GW but this product is simply terrible.

 Dysartes wrote:

Because - and say it with me, kids - piracy is not a good thing...

And yes, I acknowledge that the BS platform in and of itself isn't... generating the pirated materials. That would be the so-called "community". But because of the distributed - and I assume anonymous, or near-so - nature of said "community", GW can't go after them.

I own a number of 8th ed books, but if I were to download this BS and the 40k files, and start reading rules and building lists for books I don't own? Then I'm distinctly in the wrong.

As it stands, we have a number of posters on here who think just using BS and a copy of the core rulebook - or even just the rules pamphlet - is a legitimate way to play the game. This is one of the few areas where I'm in favour of the tournament approach, btw, given that most rules packs I've looked at mandate bringing the material you're using in your list to the event with you.

OK, you're wrong though. Anything that gets people playing, buying models, talking about GW's games, etc is objectively a good thing for GW in terms of sales. There's no logical counterargument itself, just this "it's wrong" fannying about.

The fact that some people don't buy the codexes anymore is more indicative of the codexes being recycled low-effort crap with an abusively short shelf life than anything else. Making the books "necessary" purely by vilifying people sharing the pertinent rules info with other players, rather than making them objectively good products people *want* to buy, is a horrible way to treat customers and plainly won't work.

Tournament players amount to about 1% of the playerbase, by the way.

there are those people who don't buy rules but still buy models and play the game

hard to tell how many of them would still play the game if they had to pay full price

also, paying for rules has no advantage as they are often obsolete on release because of errors or changes made afterwards

the other point is that GW can go after the GitHub repository for Copyright infringement, but they only would hurt themselves as rules are not their product that makes the money
and they cannot give it away for free because they are a premium brand and free has no value

Because - and say it with me, kids - piracy is not a good thing...

There's yet to be a study to prove this is true. Also, if piracy is rife for your products, it means you either priced a large part of the community out of the product, or they no longer see it a worth the asking price.

I’ve hoisted the black flag simply because GW no longer sells digital 40k codexes. I could still pay them for the new Blood Bowl pdf, but they removed the option for me to give them money for a 40k one, thus I didn’t.

The app is way too expensive though I do have to admit I have zero idea what an app is actually "worth" anymore. The initial splurge of $1 apps that relied on a new market to make up the difference in sales volume crashed and burned a long time ago. The new cost is "free" but constantly bombard the user with ads and "opportunities" to spend absurd amounts on the product. Most of them are kept "free" on the backs of a few fools who compulsively dump laughable amounts into it. As an app expecting its users to pay for it individually rather than exploiting a few and annoying the rest.... I actually have no idea what it should cost.

All that said, they're charging way way more than anything comparable. It's less a question for me of whether its overpriced and more a question of how overpriced it is.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/16/win-your-dream-army-with-warhammer-40000-the-app/

T&C https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battleforge-App-Promotion-2020?_requestid=14449876

App users get a chance to win an army (some locations are excluded due to local laws etc)

To enter, just download the app and claim your one-month free trial to gain access to Battle Forge. Then, once you’ve put together the force you’ve always wanted, export your list and share it on Twitter or Instagram along with #40KBattleForge to enter. It’s that easy.

so if you have got it and twitter or Instagram make sure to post an army (up to $1000 value) you never know you could be one of the winners

Smells like desperation. Apparently giving a free month wasn't enough to get people's credit card details, so now we'll give away $5,000 worth of stuff that costs us about $1400 and try to get people's credit card data that way!

I'm game on to enter a chance to win an army, I'm paying for/using the app anyway. Just a bonus.

 Dysartes wrote:

I own a number of 8th ed books, but if I were to download this BS and the 40k files, and start reading rules and building lists for books I don't own? Then I'm distinctly in the wrong.

This is such a bizarre take. GW sends out its rules free to promoters like Goonhammer that then post articles or youtube videos listing pretty much every rule in every rulebook for anyone to read. Clearly GW does not have a problem with it, or they would not send these people free copies and let them put all the info up on the internet for free.

It's doubly absurd because to play the game competitively you have to know the rules for all the armies. And not even GW is crazy enough to think everybody is going to buy every single codex and supplement and PA book just to compete.

It's one of those things where GW is still in the 1990s, running on inertia. They'd probably actually make more money giving the rules away free, because plastic is where they make their real money. I can tell you from personal experience BS has made GW hundreds of dollars from me I would not have spent otherwise.

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/16/win-your-dream-army-with-warhammer-40000-the-app/

T&C https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battleforge-App-Promotion-2020?_requestid=14449876

App users get a chance to win an army (some locations are excluded due to local laws etc)

To enter, just download the app and claim your one-month free trial to gain access to Battle Forge. Then, once you’ve put together the force you’ve always wanted, export your list and share it on Twitter or Instagram along with #40KBattleForge to enter. It’s that easy.

so if you have got it and twitter or Instagram make sure to post an army (up to $1000 value) you never know you could be one of the winners

You can also enter via email if you don’t tweet or whatever it’s called when you post on Instagram.

yukishiro1 wrote:Smells like desperation. Apparently giving a free month wasn't enough to get people's credit card details, so now we'll give away $5,000 worth of stuff that costs us about $1400 and try to get people's credit card data that way!

You think GW is trying to steal people’s credit card info?

It's not so much about stealing them as getting people to set up a subscription and then hopefully forget / be too lazy to cancel it. That's why there's no option to just buy a month at a time etc. Then you're earning passive income for literally nothing.

 AduroT wrote:

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/16/win-your-dream-army-with-warhammer-40000-the-app/

T&C https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battleforge-App-Promotion-2020?_requestid=14449876

App users get a chance to win an army (some locations are excluded due to local laws etc)

To enter, just download the app and claim your one-month free trial to gain access to Battle Forge. Then, once you’ve put together the force you’ve always wanted, export your list and share it on Twitter or Instagram along with #40KBattleForge to enter. It’s that easy.

so if you have got it and twitter or Instagram make sure to post an army (up to $1000 value) you never know you could be one of the winners

You can also enter via email if you don’t tweet or whatever it’s called when you post on Instagram.

yukishiro1 wrote:Smells like desperation. Apparently giving a free month wasn't enough to get people's credit card details, so now we'll give away $5,000 worth of stuff that costs us about $1400 and try to get people's credit card data that way!

You think GW is trying to steal people’s credit card info?

Many people will forget to cancel after the 1 month free, and they'll get automatically charged. If they're offering to give away $1500, they would need just 300 people to break even. That's not even a lot of people either.

Is that SUPER cynical and almost bordering on conspiracy theorist for me? You betcha.

If people Do forget, you can just file for a refund. Apple at least puts that thru really quick. Heck, Ive encouraged canceling via refund on the assumption that kind of chargeback is more noticeable than just dropping subscriptions.

Well I will make a list or two and see if I win.
Definitely cancelling though..


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 AduroT wrote:

OrlandotheTechnicoloured wrote:https://www.warhammer-community.com/2020/12/16/win-your-dream-army-with-warhammer-40000-the-app/

T&C https://www.games-workshop.com/en-GB/Battleforge-App-Promotion-2020?_requestid=14449876

App users get a chance to win an army (some locations are excluded due to local laws etc)

To enter, just download the app and claim your one-month free trial to gain access to Battle Forge. Then, once you’ve put together the force you’ve always wanted, export your list and share it on Twitter or Instagram along with #40KBattleForge to enter. It’s that easy.

so if you have got it and twitter or Instagram make sure to post an army (up to $1000 value) you never know you could be one of the winners

You can also enter via email if you don’t tweet or whatever it’s called when you post on Instagram.

yukishiro1 wrote:Smells like desperation. Apparently giving a free month wasn't enough to get people's credit card details, so now we'll give away $5,000 worth of stuff that costs us about $1400 and try to get people's credit card data that way!

You think GW is trying to steal people’s credit card info?

The thievery!

Loads of companies have this set up and work on hoping you’ll just forget after a free trial.
No one shouts at Netflix, Disney and Amazon for it.

Phone contracts used to literally be this, they’d be charging you the (now separated out and itemised) handset portion of your contract even after the two years you’d paid it off by..

I wasn't saying it's illegal or unusual. The "free X to get you to put in your credit card details" is super common because it works. You'd be shocked at how many people just forget to cancel, or can't be bothered to do so.

But just because something is a common scheme to fool people out of their money doesn't mean it isn't a scheme to fool people out of their money. The reason they are giving away $1500 worth of stuff is because they have calculated that doing so will result in greater than $1500 in future profits from people who would not otherwise have signed up.

Indeed so much money is made that method.
The free month thing probably got them loads.
This one, this’ll clean up even more so..

And I wasn’t getting at you specifically, or in that way by the way.

 LunarSol wrote:

... on the backs of a few fools who compulsively dump laughable amounts into it.

All that said, they're charging way way more than anything comparable. It's less a question for me of whether its overpriced and more a question of how overpriced it is.

All that part sums up GW pretty well

Why does someone need a logical counterargument for piracy? You are literally breaking the law. It might be a law you don't like or don't agree with or whatever but still, you are breaking the law thus you are in the wrong.

All those arguements about 'no study suggesting that piracy harms sales' well guess what? Not worth a damn. If you ever get caught plead it to the court and see how far it gets you.

The real question is what models to I put in a list for a brand new army I don’t have, and what army do I pick..?
Idoneth? Behemat? Gitz? Maggotkin?
Or maybe a Guard army that doesn’t use any horrible/old Cadian troops..

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Why does someone need a logical counterargument for piracy? You are literally breaking the law. It might be a law you don't like or don't agree with or whatever but still, you are breaking the law thus you are in the wrong.

All those arguements about 'no study suggesting that piracy harms sales' well guess what? Not worth a damn. If you ever get caught plead it to the court and see how far it gets you.

1) Nobody has done anything illegal by using Battlescribe

2) He was saying it's "wrong" not that it's "illegal" so you've moved the goalposts

3) Lots of things are illegal that shouldn't be

Found the link to cancel and did so this morning. Very much a substandard product.

Danny76 wrote:
The real question is what models to I put in a list for a brand new army I don’t have, and what army do I pick..?
Idoneth? Behemat? Gitz? Maggotkin?
Or maybe a Guard army that doesn’t use any horrible/old Cadian troops..

I might be building a Necron list with the Silent King, Void Dragon, and a Monolith...

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Why does someone need a logical counterargument for piracy? You are literally breaking the law. It might be a law you don't like or don't agree with or whatever but still, you are breaking the law thus you are in the wrong.

All those arguements about 'no study suggesting that piracy harms sales' well guess what? Not worth a damn. If you ever get caught plead it to the court and see how far it gets you.

"When the law is sufficiently wrong, disobedience becomes duty."

Personally I submitted a 'nidZilla list to fill out my existing collection, with three Ripper swarm selections in the troop section to thumb my nose just a bit at GW for not selling an independent kit for them.

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
Why does someone need a logical counterargument for piracy? You are literally breaking the law. It might be a law you don't like or don't agree with or whatever but still, you are breaking the law thus you are in the wrong.

This doesn't hold up to basic logical scrutiny. The fact that something is illegal does not by definition make it wrong. I'm sure we can all think of many real world examples of bad laws in the past that immediately disprove this thesis; I would mention a few, except that I think it'd get the thread locked.

It's especially funny in this context, too, because nobody has discussed actual piracy. Actual piracy is downloading a free PDF of a codex. Using BattleScribe is not piracy. At the very most, GW might be able to go after the creators of the BS databases; they absolutely could not go after the users. It doesn't violate any laws to use someone else's summary of something.

I like that they didn't bother to photoshop the Deceiver's base to match the other models.

yukishiro1 wrote:

But just because something is a common scheme to fool people out of their money doesn't mean it isn't a scheme to fool people out of their money. The reason they are giving away $1500 worth of stuff is because they have calculated that doing so will result in greater than $1500 in future profits from people who would not otherwise have signed up.

There are apps that exist to track all of the apps you have subscriptions to.

The whole purpose of free trials is the hope that you forget.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The whole purpose of free trials is the hope that you forget.

Or that you enjoy the product enough to keep your subscription.


Mail in rebates, those are 100% sleaze. This is just a try before you buy deal.

Of course, if you forget to cancel, they will gladly take your money. But let’s not ascribe too much malice to them.

Just the normal amount they deserve as a business.