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 hotsauceman1 wrote:
There have been conflicts between Namor and Black panther before. And there where rumors BP2 was going to be a conflict between them.
If they go the Shuri panther route I can see a story of her coming into her own as a leader by contrasting herself to Make who is maybe destroying cities to protect his people

It's another one of those fairly modern reinventions. Around AvX, Namor got super into picking fights with Wakanda for some reason. It plays to both of their characters well and certainly feels like something someone was testing for a potential Black Panther movie villain. Rival kings of hidden nations at war with one another is a pretty good direction after the first film.

Yes. Zemo is confirmed to be in the series along with U.S. Agent and rumors include maybe Flag Smasher?

Anyone recognize the hand print masks? I don't know what those are supposed to be.

 Lance845 wrote:
Anyone recognize the hand print masks? I don't know what those are supposed to be.

I thought maybe they were Crossbones followers as his mask was kind of like that. Not the specific image but just replicating the black face mask with paint on it.

 Lance845 wrote:
My understanding is that Marvel still doesn't hold all the rights to Namor. It's tied up in something weird like the solo Hulk movies where somebody else owns distribution or individual rights or some crap. It's (maybe in part) why the Fox movies never used him.

I could be wrong about that but I seem to remember something about it.

Correct.
https://screenrant.com/namor-movie-rights-marvel-universal-mcu-future-explained/

Basically, it seems some of the distribution rights (but not other rights) are still with Universal, similar to why there is no solo MCU Hulk movie.

----
Falcon and the Winter Solider-

The legacy of Captain America's shield is... compliated? In the MCU? How so?
Hero guy beats up Nazis, comes back 70-odd years later, beats up alien invasions.
Sure, some governments don't like him because Civil War, the Accords and etc, but his popular legacy seems unlikely to be 'complicated' at all.

Captain America was declared an enemy of S.H.I.E.L.D. (Granted by Hydra but it happened) and then went rogue again when he refused to sign the accords. It was several years of Captain America, his shield, and what he represents being actively sought enemies of the united states and the united nations.

The populous can easily be torn between people who love Merica and/or agreed that super heroes needed to be put in check vs people who see Cap as doing no wrong. It doesn't help that he failed to prevent the snap/blip and all the trauma that caused.

People might see the shield and he who wields it as a symbol of America. When Cap is actually a Symbol of what America can be, should be, and needs to fight to become.



Most people probably don't see that or understand the nuance of it.

 Lance845 wrote:
Yes. Zemo is confirmed to be in the series along with U.S. Agent and rumors include maybe Flag Smasher?

Anyone recognize the hand print masks? I don't know what those are supposed to be.

Flagsmasher goons.

Ah! Those are Flag Smashers goons. Excellent. Well that confirms the character or at least the organization for the series.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What If...? Trailer

No FF until, what...2023?!?

I suppose the wait will be worth it this time though!

I hope it'll be worth the wait. It was never the Four I really cared about, but Doom.

 Tannhauser42 wrote:
I hope it'll be worth the wait. It was never the Four I really cared about, but Doom.

Same. Dr. Doom done right is a recurring villain that the MCU could really use that isn't just about wiping out civilizations or going after some magical macguffins. I really hope they can land his hyper competent and haughty nature accurately. One of the best portrayals in recent memory is his cartoon depiction in the Earth's Mightiest Heroes cartoon.




The best part is he knew about the Skrulls first before anyone else.

I want Doom to basically be a bad guy who, when defeated, tells them how stupid they are because he was preparing them for something far worse.

Cue Galactus!

Anyway, yeah, these new shows look mostly good. I don't care about the Groot or Holiday Special ones, and really, Iron Heart? Uggh... why her?

But the one I want the most is Armour Wars. A Don Cheadle-led War Machine show. I want it right now!!!

I loved Doom in Infamous Iron Man. He didn’t, like, Become good or anything. He has just failed to achieve personal fulfillment from his other, more evil actions. Even becoming King/God of the entire multiverse didn’t do it, but he saw the heroes and how it seemed to work for them, so he thought he’d try that. So it’s not Doom who’s suddenly a good guy, it’s Doom Trying to be a good guy. There’s an early scene where he beats a villain and leaves, but had to zip back in and save someone quick and he’s like Sorry about it, still not used to the whole no civilian casualties or collateral damage thing yet.

 Alpharius wrote:
No FF until, what...2023?!?

I suppose the wait will be worth it this time though!

Takes time. And we need the turd that was the last effort to be flushed from collective memory.

 LunarSol wrote:

 SkavenLord wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
My current best guess is that we'll see Victor in a cameo role as Reed's rival in the F4 film but not as Doom so that he can be revealed as "Rabum Alal" when they want to do a proper film with him as the villain. There's a LOT of potential to build up Secret Wars with him as kind of the mastermind behind several multiverse adventures. Stuff like Mordue's new sorcerer master who helps him access the multiverse and stuff like that.

I assume you’re referring to the recent Secret Wars, with Battleworld and the Thor police? That would be pretty cool, and a good way to use Dr. Strange while he’s still around. I’ve heard some opinion that this would be a good way to introduce the X-Men as well.

I’m still sticking to the theory that Oscorp and the Seige storyline are going to play major roles, especially how Far From Home seems to be building Spidey up as one of the next “main” characters in a similar vein to Tony Stark. There was also that deleted scene, emphasizing the Oscorp building. The introduction of the Thunderbolts seems to be another clue (Dark Avengers), especially with Baron Zemo already out of the picture.

More or less. At this point Marvel comics basically exists to prototype movie ideas. Up to Avengers they mostly cribbed off of Ultimates and right after that film teased Thanos we got the Infinity event to create a cast of henchmen for him in the Black Order. Given the multiverse push, Secret Wars seems like the most likely next major direction and I don't think its any surprise that the main "Avengers" at the end of it were essentially Captain America Falcon, Captain Marvel, Black Panther, Spider-Man, Star Lord, Lady Thor, Reed and Namor. Pretty much the characters you'd expect them to focus on post Endgame.

The slate of new shows is clearly pushing the All New, All Different line, which was all about building up replacements for characters whose actors were ready to be done after Endgame.

“Captain America Falcon” really makes me wish they actually start calling him “Captain Falcon” from now on.

You brought up a good point about the All New All Different line. It does seem like a good backup in the event a character has to be retired. Spider Man has Spider Gwen, and Thor has Lady Thor. The shift has already started with Captain Falcon and Ironheart. Kamala Khan was kind of the poster child for the shift, but it seems a bit too early to phase out Captain Marvel just yet. Even Hawkeye has a replacement in Kate Bishop. No Gwenpool or Squirrel Girl yet.

In the event of Secret Wars, I guess Reed and Panther are capable of building the lifeboat. It does kind of rely on the Ultimate universe already existing as its own separate entity though, since we would need a second Reed Richards and it was the merge of both universes that kicked off the events in the first place.

Scale of 1-10 10 being most likely. What are the chances we see Werewolf By Night in the Moon Knight series?

You know what?

I actually think it is a 6.5 - for no reason other then a hunch!

I only bring it up because Moon Knights first appearance was in Werewolf By Night as the titular characters villain. He was hunting the werewolf by building his entire suit and weapons out of silver. An insane thing to do that is exactly the kind of extremes I expect and love Moon Knight for.

Plus we are getting Blade. So vampires (and by extension werewolves) are not off the table for the rest of the MCU.

Plus, Marvel likes to throw in little nods to first appearances and origin comics and all kinds of stuff.

I really hope we get some kind of Blade, Moon Knight, Ghost Rider, Dr. Strange versus Dracula movie. I hope Dracula owes Moon Knight some money.

You had me for most of that post!

Kamala wasn’t really a replacement for Captain Marvel though, they’ve always ran concurrently, with minimal interaction.

IIRC, isn't Kamala inspired by Carol, and uses the Ms. Marvel name with Danvers' blessing?

In terms of Captain Marvel in Marvel, Carol is the replacement as it is.

Kamala is inspired by and uses the Ms Marvel name for a good while before the two of them even meet, largely because when she first emerged from terragenisis she was subconsciously shape shifted into an old appearance of Ms Marvel. Of all the next generation replacement characters, she has the least in common with her adopted namesake, the least replacy of the replacements such as it were, which likely contributed to her being one of the more popular ones.


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I got curious and looked it up, it’s not till issue 17 that the two Marvels first meet and talk.

I don't think Khamala's "least in common" had anything to do with her popularity. The book is just flat out good and does what Marvel does best. Grounding these extraordinary characters into a real world with real problems and impacts on their life from their powers.

Something some of the other books just failed to do. Amadeus Cho was just a super happy and fun Hulk which is inherently less interesting then having consequences for your powers. IronHeart took time to find her voice. Miles Morales by the time he joined 616 had found his own voice and story and had gotten good.

 Lance845 wrote:
Ah! Those are Flag Smashers goons. Excellent. Well that confirms the character or at least the organization for the series.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
What If...? Trailer

Spoiler:

Ok thats pretty awesome - with this and Loki - looks like many hours of great viewing ahead

 Lance845 wrote:
Something some of the other books just failed to do. Amadeus Cho was just a super happy and fun Hulk which is inherently less interesting then having consequences for your powers. IronHeart took time to find her voice. Miles Morales by the time he joined 616 had found his own voice and story and had gotten good.

I mean, it isn't like Amadeus Cho is a new character by the time he got Hulk'd - he's been around in the Hulk supporting cast since before World War Hulk, off the top of my head.

Haven't read much (if any) of his time as the Hulk, though, so I can't comment on what they've done with him there.

 Dysartes wrote:

 Lance845 wrote:
Something some of the other books just failed to do. Amadeus Cho was just a super happy and fun Hulk which is inherently less interesting then having consequences for your powers. IronHeart took time to find her voice. Miles Morales by the time he joined 616 had found his own voice and story and had gotten good.

I mean, it isn't like Amadeus Cho is a new character by the time he got Hulk'd - he's been around in the Hulk supporting cast since before World War Hulk, off the top of my head.

Haven't read much (if any) of his time as the Hulk, though, so I can't comment on what they've done with him there.

It took a long time (from my understanding) before the "Hulk" aspect of him being a hulk meant he was loosing control at all. It was JUST him with big green muscles. Not AS strong as Hulk (because he lacked the rage) but had ALL his mind in tact. So...8th smartest person in the Marvel Universe with the massive strength and invulnerability that comes with being the Hulk taking selfies and paling about with other teenage heroes. The "curse" of being the Hulk apparently eventually caught up with him and he started to loose himself to rages which got very dangerous. Apparently Khamala once chewed him out for not doing any team work and just going off on his own with the Champions even when he was in full control.

I dunno. He was never that interesting as a Hulk. No powered super genius who thinks and plans his way out of very dangerous situations with super powered beings is interesting. That same person with what amounts to limitless strength and invulnerability to boot? Meh.

I read some of the later Cho Hulk. He was spending a lot of time in denial of the rage and bottling it up, or rather keeping it locked in the trunk while he took the wheel, but you know how well bottling up your anger tends to work in the long run.

Currently he’s sort of a quasi Hulk, kind of like how Jennifer used to be where he’s bigger and muscular and green all of the time, but not all giant like Hulk. Goes by Brawn now.

Kamala was pre-All New All Different. I think her success definitely helped inspire the line but she was definitely her own thing in a way a lot of the others weren't. Not that many of them got the chance given the general.... trends in 2016....

A lot of Marvel's comics at the time felt the heavy hand of executive meddling though. Fantastic Four cancelled, X-Men heavily sidelined for Inhumans, stuff like that. Civil War 2 was incredibly forced to go along with the movie. Stuff like that. There was a weird gap when Bendis's gimmicks had gotten kind of stale before Hickman had been given the reigns.

Personally, I'm a big fan of legacy characters, but I think the worst aspect of the batch was just the timing. Tony Stark had become a household name in a way the character had never ever had the luxury of enjoying before as more or less the face of the company with no comics staring the character to buy as a big example. It didn't help that the old favorites were written out in clunky stories that felt pretty forced (except Thor).

Oddly, of the batch, the one I care for the least is probably Cho, simply because he was already a fantastic character and hulking out made him a lot less interesting. He's not the worst character in the "hulks" line of TMNT style adventures (that would go to A-Bomb) but its a trend up there with "everyone has a symbiote" that feels like something from the 90's.

Overall I’ve liked most of the Legacy stories. Riri’s intro to All New All Different was poor, but I overall really liked her story. Lady Thor’s initial story arc was bad, because it focused too much on her being a Lady and a better Thor than Thor imho, but her stuff in Avengers and lady arcs was much better. To me Marvel comics got worse when Bendis left. I didn’t really know much about him before that, nor paid attention to authors in general, but then he moved to DC and my favorite books suddenly got worse, and I realized he had been writing them. Now I love Superman and the other stories he moved to.

AduroT wrote:I read some of the later Cho Hulk. He was spending a lot of time in denial of the rage and bottling it up, or rather keeping it locked in the trunk while he took the wheel, but you know how well bottling up your anger tends to work in the long run.

Currently he’s sort of a quasi Hulk, kind of like how Jennifer used to be where he’s bigger and muscular and green all of the time, but not all giant like Hulk. Goes by Brawn now.

That would actually be kind of cool if it was planned out as a kind of “slow-burn” story, in which the “curse” appeared miraculously benign and only slowly started to surface and overwhelm. Might give another look at that one.

AduroT wrote:Overall I’ve liked most of the Legacy stories. Riri’s intro to All New All Different was poor, but I overall really liked her story. Lady Thor’s initial story arc was bad, because it focused too much on her being a Lady and a better Thor than Thor imho, but her stuff in Avengers and lady arcs was much better. To me Marvel comics got worse when Bendis left. I didn’t really know much about him before that, nor paid attention to authors in general, but then he moved to DC and my favorite books suddenly got worse, and I realized he had been writing them. Now I love Superman and the other stories he moved to.

That’s interesting. I heard Bendis gets a lot of flak for his post-Spiderman writing, but there are some apects of his writing which he does pretty well. Out of curiosity, what did you enjoy about Riri’s story? I heard Lady Thor’s story got much better, but not much about Ironheart.

The thing I like best about Bendis stuff, which applies to Riri, is often just the common dialogue. It’s not usually the overall story, but the conversations and random moments they have while they work their way thru it. It just feels more like how actual people talk and is enjoyable to read. Riri’s early explorations into the tech, and talking thru it with hologram Tony AI. I really loved when she met Doom. Lately her book has felt rather dull, again it’s been awhile since Bendis left, but it kind of seems like they just don’t know what to do with her now or even what she wants to do.