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Tiberias wrote:


True, absolutely true, but I've said this time and time again, this is the sort of thing that poses an uncomfortable question to the reader.

GW never treats it that way, though - it's not something that's examined, because if it was the Imperium would come off as too evil.

Tiberias wrote:
These children can in the worst case condemn an entire planet to damnation if their psychic potential goes unchecked.

I'm not talking about psykers, I'm talking about kids born with harelips or whatever, who are almost always killed at birth in the Imperium.

Tiberias wrote:
They can pose an actual threat to an entire population. The comparison to the nazis is fair, but they murdered people they deemed unworthy to live and exaggerated that through propaganda, those poor people never posed a threat to anyone. And the uncomfortable question that 40k poses imo is this: if those threats were real like in 40k, would we also devolve into such cruelty that easily, when we have done it for less in our real life history?

Someone born with a harelip doesn't pose a threat to the Imperium, either.

 Da Boss wrote:
Aye, I just want to introduce more of those human societies into the setting so that they exist as examples and it is not as hopless to go against the IoM.

That's what the Tau were for, originally. Then people complained that they were too noble and naive and good and didn't fit the universe, despite the subtle hints in the lore that the Tau empire wasn't quite as great as it seemed on the surface. So GW exaggerated it out to comic proportions with Ethereals overtly mind controlling the Tau and enslaving their client races, all to ensure that they're just as bad as the IoM in their own way.

And regardless- GW is never going to offer a less evil alternative to the Imperium again as long as they're trying to sell Space Marines as good guys, rather than as the dogmatic enforcers of a genocidal totalitarian ethnostate.

I know it's been said plenty of times already but I'm going to beat my dead horse: I think this whole issue boils down to the setting losing the sight of the fact that the Imperium is meant to be a villain, not an antihero. Over the past decade and a half I've noticed a lot more fans with the perspective that the Imperium is flawed but necessary, or that it's bad but the least evil in the setting. There's also been a gradual shift towards rationalizing many of its regressive elements, like justifying AdMech religiosity by saying that everything has a spirit so ackshually their behavior isn't idiotic cargo-culting but rather a logical and optimal approach to their technology.

The Imperium has to be evil, unnecessary, regressive, short-sighted, and crippled by its own inadequacy moreso than external factors. Otherwise the setting becomes literal fascist fantasy; a sci-fi universe in which establishing a brutal totalitarian state is the just and proper thing to do, and playing as its ubermensch enforcers exterminating 'heretics' and 'subhuman mutants' makes you the hero. Go fething figure it would attract people of undesirable ideologies.

 queen_annes_revenge wrote:
I disagree with this notion that 40k has some weird fascistic craw though. The only superiority elements are that of humanity over any other races. There is no real racism in as much as the imperium doesn't care what race you are, as long as you do your duty. In that it's more totalitarian if anything.

Don't think of it so literally; it's metaphor. Sci-fi has a long (and clumsy) history of using species as stand-in for nations and/or race, particularly when they all speak English and are two-dimensional caricatures of Earth cultures. It is very easy to read the Imperial 'human supremacist' state as an analogue for an ethnostate IRL.

Give The Iron Dream a read, or at least just read through the Wikipedia page. It's a satirical piece intended to demonstrate just how easily common sci-fi tropes match to problematic real-world ideologies.

 catbarf wrote:
Don't think of it so literally; it's metaphor. Sci-fi has a long (and clumsy) history of using species as stand-in for nations and/or race, particularly when they all speak English and are two-dimensional caricatures of Earth cultures. It is very easy to read the Imperial 'human supremacist' state as an analogue for an ethnostate IRL.

Give The Iron Dream a read, or at least just read through the Wikipedia page. It's a satirical piece intended to demonstrate just how easily common sci-fi tropes match to problematic real-world ideologies.

You know, it's funny, when I was a kid and wasn't aware of the greater 40k community I liked the fact that the aliens in 40k *weren't* particularly human-like and weren't standins for other races. Orks don't reproduce sexually, so no libido, and have an incredible love for violence; that's a very alien mindset. Eldar *look* very similar to humans, but its clear that their psychology deviates immensely from humans - or at least it should be. And forget Necrons and Tyranids.

Then, later, I encounter people online or at conventions who are like "DAE orks n******?" and I get that some people just take the setting a very different way. I'd prefer my aliens in 40k *alien,* even if you could sit down and have a conversation with them.

The main focus on 40k is a vast empire led by xenophobic upper classes that value racial purity and massacre thousands, millions in fact to sustain the life of their Emperor.

It’s ok though, they’re the good guys.......

But again, is that just being ascribed to it after the fact? Are sci do writers a bunch of closet racists? Seems unlikely. I'm sure some of the older ones may have had opinions of their time, but that's about it.

As for them all speaking English, well I'd suggest that might be more to do with the popularity of the language in the real world, aswell as English speaking nations having the socio economic environment where writers/filmmakers etc could actually prosper.

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:


True, absolutely true, but I've said this time and time again, this is the sort of thing that poses an uncomfortable question to the reader.

GW never treats it that way, though - it's not something that's examined, because if it was the Imperium would come off as too evil.

Tiberias wrote:
These children can in the worst case condemn an entire planet to damnation if their psychic potential goes unchecked.

I'm not talking about psykers, I'm talking about kids born with harelips or whatever, who are almost always killed at birth in the Imperium.

Tiberias wrote:
They can pose an actual threat to an entire population. The comparison to the nazis is fair, but they murdered people they deemed unworthy to live and exaggerated that through propaganda, those poor people never posed a threat to anyone. And the uncomfortable question that 40k poses imo is this: if those threats were real like in 40k, would we also devolve into such cruelty that easily, when we have done it for less in our real life history?

Someone born with a harelip doesn't pose a threat to the Imperium, either.

GW doesn't have to treat it that way because it is plainly obvious. Some people don't see that as has been discussed or plainly ignore it to pander to their own ideology, but as I've also already said, you can only try to positively engage these people and try to educate them or avoid them.

And my point is that in 40k these potential threats of unchecked psykers and mutants are in fact real, not that they don't needlessly murder people even if they just examine harmless forms of mutation. That does not mean the imperium is right in what it does. It just poses the question that if those existential threats were real would we also just as easily not differentiate between individual cases and cull parts of the population just to be safe?

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:
Fair enough, but are they portrayed as unironically good as a faction in its entirety? I mean if they write about the brave selfless cadian soldier who sacrifices himself for his homeworld that could be considered heroic and maybe even "good", depending on your definition, but you can be sure that on the same time on some ecclesiarchy planet there are some heretics strapped on penitent engines for no reason. And my point is that they don't have to necessarily show both those things within one black library novel that deals with the heroic cadian soldier for example.

My point is that they don't show the penitent engines often enough, and what's more they don't really go into the fact that the Cadian soldier would gladly give his life to murder innocent Tau or Eldar children, or just human children who were born with physical deformities. These aren't good people.

Maybe this is where people get uncomfortable, as it is so close to the way things are in some contemporary earthly societies, as I suppose it must be if a neofeudal technocracy is to succeed in conquering the world and controlling its poorest through oppression and fear...


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Mr. Burning wrote:
The Imperium get all the spiffy looking uniforms too.

Fascists like that kind of thing as well.

Yes, adding to the observation above. I suppose someone might become uncomfortable when 40k imperialism mirrors contemporary society in somehow personally significant ways.

 catbarf wrote:
Give The Iron Dream a read, or at least just read through the Wikipedia page. It's a satirical piece intended to demonstrate just how easily common sci-fi tropes match to problematic real-world ideologies.

Just to put it here as it is really ironic, i switched the article to german for ease of reading and we censored that book for "Glorification of National-Socialistic Ideology" for two years

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Wolfblade wrote:After reading some of this thread it amazes me that people forget scumbags like arch (formerly arch warhammer) and his sizable following exist.

You know, the guy who was against GW's statement in which they say their setting is not what they want the real world to be and all forms of bigotry are bad.

Yeah, how quickly some folks seem to forget that. Like, outright racial slurs on his channel, and some VERY suspect comments on his discord with some very racist overtones.

More like open support of fascism/authoritarianism, very explicitly and extremely racist remarks, anti-trans remarks, saying "people with X political views aren't human," and outright support for genocide as a "solution." And that's just his discord, let alone his two youtube channels (of which his primary is 40k related and his views frequently creep into his videos).

My view on the whole issue is that Warhammer's setting attracts these kinds of people because a lot of the lore and art is their (mostly) ideal world or worldview. I.E. The might makes right, or how the Imperium is made of mostly white male figures in the art, and a lot of the stories (and yes, there are obvious exceptions like Gaunt's Ghosts). It's why they kick up such a fuss every time there's any sort of diversity beyond what 40k has historically had (i.e. the black Ultramarine set these people off), and it's always hidden under the guise of "but muh lore!" The Warhammer community needs to be more aware of these people and stand up to them better instead of sweeping them under the rug and pretending they don't exist/aren't a problem.

Tiberias wrote:


GW doesn't have to treat it that way because it is plainly obvious. Some people don't see that as has been discussed or plainly ignore it to pander to their own ideology, but as I've also already said, you can only try to positively engage these people and try to educate them or avoid them.

And my point is that in 40k these potential threats of unchecked psykers and mutants are in fact real, not that they don't needlessly murder people even if they just examine harmless forms of mutation. That does not mean the imperium is right in what it does. It just poses the question that if those existential threats were real would we also just as easily not differentiate between individual cases and cull parts of the population just to be safe?

Those threats actually aren't. Non-psyker mutants aren't a particular problem, the Imperium just likes genocide. Races like the Eldar and Kroot deal with their psykers in a way that doesn't involve atrocities. The only question that's posed is why does the setting not examine the fact that characters like Celestine and Gaunt and Caine are all pro-genocide?

I mean it took right until the end of the year, but this is literally the dumbest post and thread of the year...bar none.
This "rise of fascism" outlook is so ridiculous that I think many of you just need to unplug from the online BS for about 6 months. Jesus, get a grip....and a life.

Tabletop wargaming related content is now one of the few online places I frequent due to the absolute rot that has become of media, social media and online activity in general, but it seems that this is now starting to house a lot of that rot. What a joke.

 Wolfblade wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Wolfblade wrote:After reading some of this thread it amazes me that people forget scumbags like arch (formerly arch warhammer) and his sizable following exist.

You know, the guy who was against GW's statement in which they say their setting is not what they want the real world to be and all forms of bigotry are bad.

Yeah, how quickly some folks seem to forget that. Like, outright racial slurs on his channel, and some VERY suspect comments on his discord with some very racist overtones.

More like open support of fascism/authoritarianism, very explicitly and extremely racist remarks, anti-trans remarks, saying "people with X political views aren't human," and outright support for genocide as a "solution." And that's just his discord, let alone his two youtube channels (of which his primary is 40k related and his views frequently creep into his videos).

My view on the whole issue is that Warhammer's setting attracts these kinds of people because a lot of the lore and art is their (mostly) ideal world or worldview. I.E. The might makes right, or how the Imperium is made of mostly white male figures in the art, and a lot of the stories (and yes, there are obvious exceptions like Gaunt's Ghosts, but for). It's why they kick up such a fuss every time there's any sort of diversity beyond what 40k has historically had (i.e. the black Ultramarine set these people off), and it's always hidden under the guise of "but muh lore!" The Warhammer community needs to be more aware of these people and stand up to them better instead of sweeping them under the rug and pretending they don't exist/aren't a problem.

The warhammer "community" isn't a monolith that acts in tandem, it's a bunch of small nodes and individuals. You are either speaking for a large group of people you don't know or what you really mean is twitter community. My community is made of the actual people I play with, not you or anybody who just happens to also play warhammer somewhere else.

And a huge number of the community never interacts online; or if they do never leave facebook. Forums have always been a tiny subset of the userbase and the "extremist" are an even smaller subset of that.


So even if there is such a population its a very small (if often vocal/active posting) group that is, in the real world, a very tiny influence. Heck many might not even have much if any influence outside of their own small circled niche. So much of the chatter is likely going in circles between the same people.

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:


GW doesn't have to treat it that way because it is plainly obvious. Some people don't see that as has been discussed or plainly ignore it to pander to their own ideology, but as I've also already said, you can only try to positively engage these people and try to educate them or avoid them.

And my point is that in 40k these potential threats of unchecked psykers and mutants are in fact real, not that they don't needlessly murder people even if they just examine harmless forms of mutation. That does not mean the imperium is right in what it does. It just poses the question that if those existential threats were real would we also just as easily not differentiate between individual cases and cull parts of the population just to be safe?

Those threats actually aren't. Non-psyker mutants aren't a particular problem, the Imperium just likes genocide. Races like the Eldar and Kroot deal with their psykers in a way that doesn't involve atrocities. The only question that's posed is why does the setting not examine the fact that characters like Celestine and Gaunt and Caine are all pro-genocide?

Sorry but that is just false. These threats are real within 40k because they don't know which mutant or psyker poses an actual threat and they don't care to find out. They just cull them to eliminate any potential threat of a planet turning into a literal hellscape because they missed one untrained psyker. Is that evil? Yeah of course but that wasn't the point.

Your comparison with other races also falls flat because humans, eldar and kroot just don't compare. They have completely different psykic potentials and their souls resonate differently on the warp, with the humans arguably having rapidly evolved the biggest psykic potential compared to their short lifespans.
If we're gonna talk about this we have to talk accurately about the lore I believe.

And thus, the sweeping under the rug I said happens.

Tiberias wrote:


Sorry but that is just false.

No, it's true. Non-psyker mutants aren't really a problem; they're caused by Chaos, but it's not like they have an innate ideological alignment *with* Chaos. There's nowhere in the fluff that agrees with you and not me.

Tiberias wrote:

These threats are real within 40k because they don't know which mutant or psyker poses an actual threat and they don't care to find out. They just cull them to eliminate any potential threat of a planet turning into a literal hellscape because they missed one untrained psyker. Is that evil? Yeah of course but that wasn't the point.

No, it being evil is exactly the point. Other races in the setting can manage the dangers that go along with psychic potential without resorting to genocide; if the Imperium has to, it's because they don't spend the effort to get good enough to tell the difference. Either way, the Imperium is morally at fault for killing all of the people with physical deformities that they do. Someone with a harelip isn't going to destroy their society, but they murder them anyway because they love killing people who look different.

Tiberias wrote:
Your comparison with other races also falls flat because humans, eldar and kroot just don't compare. They have completely different psykic potentials and their souls resonate differently on the warp, with the humans arguably having rapidly evolved the biggest psykic potential compared to their short lifespans.
If we're gonna talk about this we have to talk accurately about the lore I believe.

I'm talking more accurately about the lore than you. Your comments about "different psykic[sic] potentials" is just pure speculation; you're working with the circular logic that the Imperium is justified and then making up explanations that support that. The evidence points the other way, the Imperium is *not* justified in what it does.

Moral reasoning applies equally to all creatures; humans born with physical deformities don't have less of a right to life than those without, and nonhumans don't have less of a right to life, either. Believing otherwise is morally bankrupt, but that's the Imperium for you.

 Wolfblade wrote:

 Sgt_Smudge wrote:

Wolfblade wrote:After reading some of this thread it amazes me that people forget scumbags like arch (formerly arch warhammer) and his sizable following exist.

You know, the guy who was against GW's statement in which they say their setting is not what they want the real world to be and all forms of bigotry are bad.

Yeah, how quickly some folks seem to forget that. Like, outright racial slurs on his channel, and some VERY suspect comments on his discord with some very racist overtones.

More like open support of fascism/authoritarianism, very explicitly and extremely racist remarks, anti-trans remarks, saying "people with X political views aren't human," and outright support for genocide as a "solution." And that's just his discord, let alone his two youtube channels (of which his primary is 40k related and his views frequently creep into his videos).

My view on the whole issue is that Warhammer's setting attracts these kinds of people because a lot of the lore and art is their (mostly) ideal world or worldview. I.E. The might makes right, or how the Imperium is made of mostly white male figures in the art, and a lot of the stories (and yes, there are obvious exceptions like Gaunt's Ghosts, but for). It's why they kick up such a fuss every time there's any sort of diversity beyond what 40k has historically had (i.e. the black Ultramarine set these people off), and it's always hidden under the guise of "but muh lore!" The Warhammer community needs to be more aware of these people and stand up to them better instead of sweeping them under the rug and pretending they don't exist/aren't a problem.

Bigoted youtubers are a problem. But its a problem with the specific youtubers and the supporters they gather, not with the game or setting.
There are similar ones who are fans of various ancient cultures, and even one who originally seemed to be a rationalist defender of science and evolution before he descended into all out madness. It doesn't mean ancient history or evolution are pro-fascist ideologies.

You're making a mess of cause and effect. Mass social media like youtube makes it easy for Cult of Personality folks to gather followers to a central hub, especially when everything about it is online. You want to get rid of this guy? Appeal to youtube to de-platform him, don't berate GW or (even worse) gamers in general. You might as well complain to clothing manufacturers that they're supporting some guy who dares to dress himself in the morning.

This thread should probably be called “does this thread encourage hatred” cause really who’s this opinionated they take this wierd stand for a game....... don’t like the lore don’t read the books or make your own lore or just shut up and play I played with a group for 6 years we NEVER talked about any of this dumb stuff what is wrong with people!?

Voss wrote:
Bigoted youtubers are a problem. But its a problem with the specific youtubers and the supporters they gather, not with the game or setting.
There are similar ones who are fans of various ancient cultures, and even one who originally seemed to be a rationalist defender of science and evolution before he descended into all out madness. It doesn't mean ancient history or evolution are pro-fascist ideologies.

You're making a mess of cause and effect. Mass social media like youtube makes it easy for Cult of Personality folks to gather followers to a central hub, especially when everything about it is online. You want to get rid of this guy? Appeal to youtube to de-platform him, don't berate GW or (even worse) gamers in general. You might as well complain to clothing manufacturers that they're supporting some guy who dares to dress himself in the morning.

Well, in the end the bigoted youtuber is in a small part aided by the way GW handles the setting, with portraying the genocide-happy Imperium as unironic heroes.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Stalked21 wrote:
This thread should probably be called “does this thread encourage hatred” cause really who’s this opinionated they take this wierd stand for a game....... don’t like the lore don’t read the books or make your own lore or just shut up and play I played with a group for 6 years we NEVER talked about any of this dumb stuff what is wrong with people!?

Some of us liked the lore in 2e/3e and then felt it veered too much towards fascism apologia.

I think part of the problem is, from a young age we're trained to look for our stories to be "good vs evil" and thats not really a theme of 40k TBH (cause everyone's evil) 40k is more a story of "law vs chaos" and the take away is "both extremes are bad"

I didn't read the whole thread, but there are a couple things that should be said if they aren't already:

1. 40k fascists (though most would deny that particular label) do exist. Anyone telling you they don't is blessedly ignorant.

2. That being said, it's a very small population. Probably in the 1-2%ish range.

3. What there are a lot of is right-aligned 40k players. This can come as a shock to people who don't normally interact with people on the right of the political spectrum on a regular basis, which is to say, most people who are white collar professionals living in big cities. These right-wingers are not alt-right fascists. But if they're American, they probably voted for Donald Trump twice, and with how polarized America has become, that itself can create some uncomfortable interactions.

4. All wargaming/ miniature hobbying attracts a more right-leaning crowd than the population as a whole - mainly because is disproportionately white and male and both those groups lean right, but even beyond that, because it's about playing toy soldiers, and that's just something that is fundamentally more likely to appeal to people with right-leaning worldviews. This is true all over the world - in Japan, the people who buy robot kits skew significantly to the right as well, and there's actually more overt fascists in that hobby than in 40k, for example.

I don't think any of the above is a problem (except the fascists, but the problem is them, not the other 95-99% of the player base), but they are things to keep in mind.

I agree all of the factions in 40K are evil in some way shape or form my DA are “good” but do terrible things to their own race for empowers sake. That’s why I picked them it’s the perfect representation for how the imperium is as a whole. The secrets the lies the mass murder to hide secrets no one in 40K is good but why are we fighting each other as a community. We all have different ideas that’s what makes it great just learn to live with each other and accept we have different views if we force feed them down someone else’s throat that’s how true division happens! *cough* imperium/chaos dark eldar/eldar heck mechanicum/dark mechanicum

Hecaton wrote:

Tiberias wrote:


Sorry but that is just false.

No, it's true. Non-psyker mutants aren't really a problem; they're caused by Chaos, but it's not like they have an innate ideological alignment *with* Chaos. There's nowhere in the fluff that agrees with you and not me.

Tiberias wrote:

These threats are real within 40k because they don't know which mutant or psyker poses an actual threat and they don't care to find out. They just cull them to eliminate any potential threat of a planet turning into a literal hellscape because they missed one untrained psyker. Is that evil? Yeah of course but that wasn't the point.

No, it being evil is exactly the point. Other races in the setting can manage the dangers that go along with psychic potential without resorting to genocide; if the Imperium has to, it's because they don't spend the effort to get good enough to tell the difference. Either way, the Imperium is morally at fault for killing all of the people with physical deformities that they do. Someone with a harelip isn't going to destroy their society, but they murder them anyway because they love killing people who look different.

Tiberias wrote:
Your comparison with other races also falls flat because humans, eldar and kroot just don't compare. They have completely different psykic potentials and their souls resonate differently on the warp, with the humans arguably having rapidly evolved the biggest psykic potential compared to their short lifespans.
If we're gonna talk about this we have to talk accurately about the lore I believe.

I'm talking more accurately about the lore than you. Your comments about "different psykic[sic] potentials" is just pure speculation; you're working with the circular logic that the Imperium is justified and then making up explanations that support that. The evidence points the other way, the Imperium is *not* justified in what it does.

Moral reasoning applies equally to all creatures; humans born with physical deformities don't have less of a right to life than those without, and nonhumans don't have less of a right to life, either. Believing otherwise is morally bankrupt, but that's the Imperium for you.

I think you entirely missed my point. At no point in any post in this thread or other threads you and I have spoken about this have I argued that the imperium is in any way justified or right in what they are doing to mutants, untrained psykers etc.
Also my point about other races was not about how they are worth less then humans within the lore, but how they work differently both their anatomy and psykic resonance in the warp and that is just a fact within the lore.

I am not quite sure anymore what your point is. You say GW should focus more on the ugly sides of the imperium. If they write about the heroic cadian solider to pick up the example from before, do they have to spell out in that same novel that the imperium is evil and a total crapstate? Is it about the ratio between the number of novels and shortstories where they write about the heroic cadian soldier as compared to stories about cadian soldiers killing innocent mutants for no reason?

Voss wrote:

Bigoted youtubers are a problem. But its a problem with the specific youtubers and the supporters they gather, not with the game or setting.
There are similar ones who are fans of various ancient cultures, and even one who originally seemed to be a rationalist defender of science and evolution before he descended into all out madness. It doesn't mean ancient history or evolution are pro-fascist ideologies.

You're making a mess of cause and effect. Mass social media like youtube makes it easy for Cult of Personality folks to gather followers to a central hub, especially when everything about it is online. You want to get rid of this guy? Appeal to youtube to de-platform him, don't berate GW or (even worse) gamers in general. You might as well complain to clothing manufacturers that they're supporting some guy who dares to dress himself in the morning.

Nowhere there did I say it's GW's fault so you're making quite a bit of a strawman there. What I said is that the setting appeals to these kinds of people for several reasons.

That said, GW can't be expected to deal with the problem entirely. It's why I said the community needs to react better to these kinds of people instead of pretending they aren't a problem within the hobby. How it started doesn't matter so much as the fact that it's here now, and it should be dealt with. This "deal with it elsewhere" attitude is part of the "sweep it under the rug" I was talking about as the problem already exists within the community, which means it's too late to stop it at the source to stop it here like you're suggesting.

(And for the record, certain proud and bigoted groups have taken to wearing certain brands and styles of clothes, so the clothing manufacturer stopped selling them.)

I hear that that rock and roll music makes your kids worship satan as well!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hear that that rock and roll music makes your kids worship satan as well!

Only if you play it backwards

 Overread wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I hear that that rock and roll music makes your kids worship satan as well!

Only if you play it backwards

Now if only anyone was currently arguing that 40k makes people into fascists you'd have some relevancy!

Honestly, compared to all the other alt-right rabbitholes you could be led down on youtube, 40k is probably *anti-fascist* in the sense that getting it into your youtube algorithim is more likely to expose you to non-alt-right stuff than most other topics someone interested in toy soldiers might be likely to youtube.

Algorithmic radicalization is a youtube problem, not a 40k problem.

I don't think it's correct to say that the setting is no longer presented ironically. I think it's fair to say that things are often now presented from an Imperial propaganda perspective, and this can make the satire seem to have been diluted, but it's still there. I suspect they think it goes without saying that the IoM is a horrible fascist state and that they don't therefore need to spell it out directly. It may be that some of that subtext gets lost when translated to other markets and cultures including the US.

It's difficult to see what anyone wants GW to do that they're not already doing. They made their 'you will not be missed' statement against racism, bigotry, etc. They've been taking steps to make their miniatures, painting examples, books, and art more representative and less sexualised. They've shut down at least one of the bigoted youtuber types on IP grounds. They're sending about as clear a message as they can that they don't support this stuff, short of some massive reimagining of the setting.

My God, it's like growing up in the 80s with Satanic Panic all over again.. No, playing a wizard will not make your child a devil worshiper. No, playing warhammer will not make your child or anyone else into a Nazi. No, censorship and a crusade to rid the world of all wrongthink is not the answer.