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So I really enjoyed the series all the way thrugh. Episode 5 is still the highlight of the entire D+ run so far.

I think Clint’s definitely done. The torch pass with the name thing at the end and him going I have an idea is a good ending and when next we see Hawkeye it’ll just be her. They’ll definitely play it off with someone saying they’re bringing Hawkeye in and we get the “surprise” reveal when she shows up instead of the expected dude. People thought we would see old Steve doing an advisor role and nope he just apparently died after Endgame. While not dead, I doubt we see Clint again as he retires to the farm to stay with his family.

Also I liked Agents of Shield. Yeah it’s definitely not MCU canon because of all their inter studio rivalries and stuff, but it was still a good show in its own right.

So the Rolex just belonged to his wife as a shield agent?
Nothing special? Did they just want a Rolex?

It had tracking chips and such, and given Shield tech is still likely more than Just a watch, just not in any way bay matters to this story.

 Lance845 wrote:
So I really enjoyed the series all the way thrugh.

Yeah, really fun show. I am glad that I decided to check it because the trailer almost made me to skip it.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
So the Rolex just belonged to his wife as a shield agent?
Nothing special? Did they just want a Rolex?

The fact that it had 19 on it is potentially far more significant than it appears. I wonder who Agent 19 in SHIELD was...?

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder who Agent 19 in SHIELD was...?

Is that a rhetorical question, as there is an answer?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder who Agent 19 in SHIELD was...?

Is that a rhetorical question, as there is an answer?

Well, I mean there is, and it was linked further up.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Azreal13 wrote:
I wonder who Agent 19 in SHIELD was...?

Is that a rhetorical question, as there is an answer?

Yeah, I just figured I'd encourage some personal research rather than spoon feed. They don't learn if you do it all for them.

So we know Hawkeye and Mockingbird where members of the west coast avengers, I'm going to take a guess here and suggest that they combine the WCA and the young avengers and have Hawkeye and Mockingbird pull together a new team of younger avengers in phase 4 or 5 or so, moving out of the "action hero" role and taking a role similer to Nick fury's role in avengers

That could be neat. Hawkeye providing the stable footing they need to get together and get organized.

I would be down with Hawkeye transitioning in to a Nick Fury type role for a new team.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Too much fandom is focused on the idea that two women can't just be friends, or that two men can't just be friends. They simply have to be gay for one another.

Combine that with standard (READ: insane) shipper mentality that shows often breed, and we get people demanding that certain characters get together because they can't accept anything different.

I think it's less that fandom is focused on it and more that we've got 70 years of the LGBTQ community building their own niche in slash fiction and such. It's been going so long it's become an integrated part of how fandoms discuss characters and 'shipping.' EDIT: And there's a lot to be said that a lot of this stuff is also written by straight people. Pretty sure most of the lesbian ships in the Worm fandom are exclusively written by straight men for example. And oh boy isn't that a barrel of 'how do we regard that' XD

It has really only been in the past decade that we've seen gay characters become staples in fiction and that's come with subsections of people constantly bitching about their presence and the community itself arguing over whether not a portrayal was good or not.

People in fandoms are going to generate the content they want to see.

Not to mention, sometimes it's the only way to get LGBTQ representation in a work is shipping.

I will never understand fandoms. Why can't you enjoy something without being obsessed over it? The desire to go write your own fiction about something you watched or read seems so, for lack of a better word, childish. Why don't people want to make something new? You can be inspired by MCU, Star Wars, etc. There is zero issue with that, that is how all creation is done at this point, but at least make something that attempts to be original. Fan fiction is parasitic to me and it gets really weird when it turns into eroticism. Go outside. Touch the grass. Make some friends. Find love in the real world.

trexmeyer wrote:
Why can't you enjoy something without being obsessed over it?

Probably the same reasons people go to forums to talk about the plastic soldiers and have off topic boards to talk about the hottest TV shows.

In a way fanfiction isn't any different from this thread. It's just an alternate medium for talking about a topic.

Though I do agree it's weird how people obsess over fictional characters sexually.

I originally came here for strategy information or painting inspiration. I don't know if that's directly comparable to discussing X comic/story/movie.

 AduroT wrote:
People thought we would see old Steve doing an advisor role and nope he just apparently died after Endgame.

I've always seen that as being the (in-universe) official account of what happened in Endgame (we only know 3 people saw him so they can just say he didn't make it back, which would pass the Aes Sedai "cannot lie" test ), so he'd be left to his own devices, it's not like he can advise anyone connected to world governments given his position on the Accords.

trexmeyer wrote:
I will never understand fandoms. Why can't you enjoy something without being obsessed over it? The desire to go write your own fiction about something you watched or read seems so, for lack of a better word, childish. Why don't people want to make something new? You can be inspired by MCU, Star Wars, etc. There is zero issue with that, that is how all creation is done at this point, but at least make something that attempts to be original. Fan fiction is parasitic to me and it gets really weird when it turns into eroticism. Go outside. Touch the grass. Make some friends. Find love in the real world.

"Fan" is short for "Fanatic" and like all fanatics, they have their share of zealots, too (the zealots concern themselves with how "canon" everything is, and rival a carnival of cardinals for "enthusiasm"). Every group has them.

 hotsauceman1 wrote:
Not to mention, sometimes it's the only way to get LGBTQ representation in a work is shipping.

eh I'm just glad Anthoy Mackle called it out, frankly the whole "lol they're friends? MAKE THEM GAY FOR EACH OTHER" is absolutely toxic. it sends the message that you can't have friends, without it being romantic. this can lead to some VEEEERY toxic behavior

Historians are having fething migraines of late over proposals that X and Y were gay based on X and Y living together or being close, often with little regard for context, cultural change, or even the fairly obvious in some cases. In some cases, the criticism isn't actually all that off. There's a few figures that are pretty clearly in some kind of relationship and it sure looks like it's with each other and historians claiming otherwise are living in denial and arguing against a weight of evidence that supports that conclusion. But there's also the reverse problem where we have people who just really don't know what they're talking about trying to make something from nothing so the whole thing is a very headache-inducing mess.

Fandom does do the same thing where almost any positive interaction between two characters can and will be taken as some subtle sign that they're secret in love. I'm not going to bother going into 'queercoding' which is mostly making circular arguments and ignoring the text to propose an alternate version of the media in question where the only valid reading is 'they're queer' and anything else is just plain wrong (and that entire argument is almost always bs on some level). So yeah, there's this really dumb trend here but that too I think has simply become baked into how fans discuss the things they like after decades of 'alternate take' being the bread and butter of fanfiction.

It doesn't help that some media goes out of its way to produce that effect because some creators have realized shipping can be very very good for business.

Looking at you Star vs the Forces of Evil you knew exactly what you were doing!

 LordofHats wrote:
Historians are having fething migraines of late over proposals that X and Y were gay based on X and Y living together or being close, often with little regard for context, cultural change, or even the fairly obvious in some cases. In some cases, the criticism isn't actually all that off. There's a few figures that are pretty clearly in some kind of relationship and it sure looks like it's with each other and historians claiming otherwise are living in denial and arguing against a weight of evidence that supports that conclusion. But there's also the reverse problem where we have people who just really don't know what they're talking about trying to make something from nothing so the whole thing is a very headache-inducing mess.

Fandom does do the same thing where almost any positive interaction between two characters can and will be taken as some subtle sign that they're secret in love. I'm not going to bother going into 'queercoding' which is mostly making circular arguments and ignoring the text to propose an alternate version of the media in question where the only valid reading is 'they're queer' and anything else is just plain wrong (and that entire argument is almost always bs on some level). So yeah, there's this really dumb trend here but that too I think has simply become baked into how fans discuss the things they like after decades of 'alternate take' being the bread and butter of fanfiction.

It doesn't help that some media goes out of its way to produce that effect because some creators have realized shipping can be very very good for business.

Looking at you Star vs the Forces of Evil you knew exactly what you were doing!

Man, don't even bring up Star. I was super disappointed how the last season went. They literally threw away the plot for the purpose of shipping. Toffee was a great villain when he was first introduced and then they just threw that away by saying, "Lol, turns out Toffee was right y'all, magic am bad", not to mention the whole exploration of how he lost his pinky being the show's equivalent of how Nick Fury lost his eye.

Yeah. Show really went off the rails. Good example of how trying to cater to shippers probably hurt the media in question more than helped it.

If I were to offer a counterexample the best is probably League of Legends, which will tease characters constantly and they know exactly what they're doing and it's made them a lot of money because fanfiction can become millions in free advertising.

And to round us back to the topic, comic books suffer from this too. How many times have two characters married because the writer decided they liked a certain ship, only for another writer to come along a couple years later and retcon it because they didn't like it? Spider-Man and Cyclops both come to mind. Comic books are kind of a weird case, because they've been around long enough that the people writing them are 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation fans of the medium.

 LordofHats wrote:
Yeah. Show really went off the rails. Good example of how trying to cater to shippers probably hurt the media in question more than helped it.

If I were to offer a counterexample the best is probably League of Legends, which will tease characters constantly and they know exactly what they're doing and it's made them a lot of money because fanfiction can become millions in free advertising.

And to round us back to the topic, comic books suffer from this too. How many times have two characters married because the writer decided they liked a certain ship, only for another writer to come along a couple years later and retcon it because they didn't like it? Spider-Man and Cyclops both come to mind. Comic books are kind of a weird case, because they've been around long enough that the people writing them are 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation fans of the medium.

Definitely. One More Day was terrible and took away years of Peter's character development with his relationship with Mary Jane. Making him single again really didn't add anything and their character assassination of Black Cat in the process was even worse (especially since I originally was pro-Felicia over MJ before he finally tied the knot). Cyclops is just weird because he keeps being passed along a string of psychics that span from Jean Grey, Psylocke and Emma Frost to a bunch of others I've lost track off. I feel like when people want to go in and change things that it's better to go for a completely different universe and start fresh there like the Ultimate universe, versus playing around with the established canon because reasons. Alas, the genie came out of that bottle a long time ago. Definitely one of the things that some manga have over American comics is that at some point it usually ends, barring very few exceptions like Detective Conan and I think One Piece so far. And there's a lot more respect for the original material from the creator as far as I can tell.

trexmeyer wrote:
I will never understand fandoms. Why can't you enjoy something without being obsessed over it? The desire to go write your own fiction about something you watched or read seems so, for lack of a better word, childish. Why don't people want to make something new? You can be inspired by MCU, Star Wars, etc. There is zero issue with that, that is how all creation is done at this point, but at least make something that attempts to be original. Fan fiction is parasitic to me and it gets really weird when it turns into eroticism. Go outside. Touch the grass. Make some friends. Find love in the real world.

Here is the thing, for fledgling writers, fanfiction can help alot, you have established characters and motivations that you can play around with unique.
But also, its enjoyable.

The vast majority of popular media today is officially-sanctioned fanficiton anyway; people just don't like mentioning it because it breaks the charade of legitimacy.

 Flipsiders wrote:
The vast majority of popular media today is officially-sanctioned fanficiton anyway; people just don't like mentioning it because it breaks the charade of legitimacy.

Yes, it is and it is responsible for many drops in quality with few exceptions.

It's one thing to use a setting and expand upon it (see Star Wars EU, every tabletop RPG ever). It's an entirely other thing to take preexisting characters and write your own adventures with them.

The MCU works because they successfully made comics palatable to the masses, but honestly 99% of Marvel/DC comics are likely fan faction at this point.

 Grimskul wrote:

 LordofHats wrote:
Yeah. Show really went off the rails. Good example of how trying to cater to shippers probably hurt the media in question more than helped it.

If I were to offer a counterexample the best is probably League of Legends, which will tease characters constantly and they know exactly what they're doing and it's made them a lot of money because fanfiction can become millions in free advertising.

And to round us back to the topic, comic books suffer from this too. How many times have two characters married because the writer decided they liked a certain ship, only for another writer to come along a couple years later and retcon it because they didn't like it? Spider-Man and Cyclops both come to mind. Comic books are kind of a weird case, because they've been around long enough that the people writing them are 2nd, 3rd, or even 4th generation fans of the medium.

Definitely. One More Day was terrible and took away years of Peter's character development with his relationship with Mary Jane. Making him single again really didn't add anything and their character assassination of Black Cat in the process was even worse (especially since I originally was pro-Felicia over MJ before he finally tied the knot). Cyclops is just weird because he keeps being passed along a string of psychics that span from Jean Grey, Psylocke and Emma Frost to a bunch of others I've lost track off. I feel like when people want to go in and change things that it's better to go for a completely different universe and start fresh there like the Ultimate universe, versus playing around with the established canon because reasons. Alas, the genie came out of that bottle a long time ago. Definitely one of the things that some manga have over American comics is that at some point it usually ends, barring very few exceptions like Detective Conan and I think One Piece so far. And there's a lot more respect for the original material from the creator as far as I can tell.

Here is the thing. The writer of One More Day has said that he hates that story. It wasn't his story. He was mandated to write that particular plot. He did the dialog. He helped set the pacing and such. But the plot was written by committee wanting to restore a status quo.

This is a really plausible explanation and I’m willing to accept it as canon.

Worse than committee. OMD was railroaded by then editor and chief to the point where he drew the book himself to make sure it was done the way he wanted.