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Removed - making light of domestic abuse is not acceptable.

I don't think that the stay with older edition is a valid thing to do. People seem to automaticly move over to the new rule set.

Removed - making light of domestic abuse is not acceptable.

 alextroy wrote:

Voss wrote:
This is _just_ to sell more boxes, and it shows in the disregard for existing collections and the background of the army. The only plan here is to invalidate models to sell more models.
It isn't like a meta shift, where people have the agency to decide if they want to chase the 'optimal' loadout, or make do with what they have. This forces a change where people with perfectly reasonable (and even fluffy!) squads have to go buy more if they want to field legal squads. (Or chop and rebuild models that really aren't designed for chopping and rebuilding)

Really? They sell more boxes by ensuring you can't use weapon combinations the box doesn't support? Funny how the reasoning has flipped from the bad old days (aka before the Codex was revealed) when people said GW allowed weapon combinations the box didn't support to sell more boxes.

The trick is to alternate which is which every edition so that people have to buy to adjust their units every edition, moving more kits.

And I'm sure everyone else will adjust too.. But why should you have to? It just sucks.. The idea sucks..

Well, not EVERYBODY. I think the Necron boxes all come with every option (I could be missing something so let me know if I am), but there are Marine boxes that don't come with everything and they somehow avoided this..... So ... again ... not EVERYBODY ...

yukishiro1 wrote:

Hey...no fair. You're not supposed to react that sensibly! What gives? Now I can't be annoyed at you any more.

Well, I'm sure I'll mess up again so don't worry.

I wonder if they will remove twin linked devourer's from the Hive Tyrant and Carnifex.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:

Hey...no fair. You're not supposed to react that sensibly! What gives? Now I can't be annoyed at you any more.

Well, I'm sure I'll mess up again so don't worry.

Maybe quit the thread while you are ahead? Or the forum even.

Karol wrote:
I don't think that the stay with older edition is a valid thing to do. People seem to automaticly move over to the new rule set.

I know 2 groups who still play 5th Edition

it is not hard as long as you don't need to play pick up games or tournaments

Having just seen this thread, I feel like such "option" restrictions are purely extreme legalese and profit-seeking rather than about anything resembling game balance or sustainability.

When it comes to modern 40k feeling bloated, this is one of the big reasons why. 2nd ed was bloated through its game-in-a-game Psychic Phase and several extreme Wargear Cards, yet every faction functionally used the same weapons, to the point that you had Orks with Autocannons and Eldar with Heavy Plasmaguns.

3rd-through-5th edition 40k abstracted the assorted "Power" weapons into "Power Weapons", but gradually introduced racial variants of the assorted options. Thus, Orks got Sluggas & Shootas instead of Bolt Pistols & Bolters. Eldar got Bright Lances instead of Lascannons, etc. However, this was still a mostly streamlined game.

It was around the beginning of 5th that you had the 'first' signs that there would be some bloat, with more 'variant' power weapons, artifacts, etc. being introduced. My personal favorite oddity from that edition was how Dreadnoughts had a "Missile Launcher" (one shot), while Terminators had a "Cyclone Missile Launcher" (2 shots), and Typhoon Speeders had a Typhoon Missile Launcher (2 shots). The Taurox Prime in 6th would also get the Taurox Missile Launcher. Note, these three different weapons had the exact same profile as one another, because "double-shot Missile Launcher" was apparently too generic...

6th added tons of additional Special Rules, re-divided Power Weapons into Swords/Axes/Lances/Maces, and added Challenges.

And of course, you have the many different variants of Bolters added with Primarines, just so you can geek out on the difference between a Bolter, Bolt Rifle, Bolt Carbine, Heavy Bolt Rifle...I imagine you could recreate the Monty Python Cheese skit, only with Bolter Variants.

stratigo wrote:
Maybe quit the thread while you are ahead? Or the forum even.

There ya go, champ! You and I are gonna be beeeest buddies!

 Daedalus81 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Maybe quit the thread while you are ahead? Or the forum even.

There ya go, champ! You and I are gonna be beeeest buddies!

Well telling people to suck it up will grant you that attitude all while trying to appease Senpai GW who won't notice you for doing it. If you really went after them for Eradicators like you claimed you should have no problem going after them for this decision. Pretty damn simple.

can we stop piling on on daedalus?

Lord knows i had my fair share of issues with some of his opinions in the past but he is always decent.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Maybe quit the thread while you are ahead? Or the forum even.

There ya go, champ! You and I are gonna be beeeest buddies!

Well telling people to suck it up will grant you that attitude all while trying to appease Senpai GW who won't notice you for doing it. If you really went after them for Eradicators like you claimed you should have no problem going after them for this decision. Pretty damn simple.

I'll grant my choice of words probably wasn't as good as it should have been, but I didn't say suck it up. I said think about it, put it in context, and don't start just extending to other various theories, conspiracies, or ridiculous-isms.

I already sent GW an email.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
can we stop piling on on daedalus?

Lord knows i had my fair share of issues with some of his opinions in the past but he is always decent.

I appreciate the words. You're being too kind. I can definitely be a dick, but I'll try harder.

 alextroy wrote:

 kirotheavenger wrote:
Honestly, I think the convention is that monopose models only get options contained within the kit. This is what has caught Plague Marines

More modular models get options specifically designed to be compatible with those kits. This is why Marines don't appear to have been caught.
But keep in mind Primaris units can't build anything not in the kit or on an upgrade sprue.

I think extrapolating Plague Marines to absolutely every box is too far, it's likely limited to their monopose-ness.

I completely agree. The Plague Marine and Blightlord Terminator kits suffer from being monopose kits with no upgrade sprues or designed interchangeability. Other recent armies don't appear to suffer this issue, but have been done the same way:

Adpeta Sororitas: Every single unit option in the Codex is either from a monopose kit/model or is from designed interchangeability. That crazy list of options for the Canoness is 100% the build instructions for the kit or the monopose model from the Army box. The only things not in the Battle Sister box the the squads (Battle Sister, Celestians, Dominons) can take are the Power Maul and Multi-Melta from the Retributor box (and all Retributor options not in the box are in the Battle Sister box). The Repentia Superior has the option to not take a free Bolt Pistol because the Army Box model doesn't have one.

Necrons: All the options are in the box or a monopose model.

Space Marines:
Primaris Marines are 100% out of the box, from monopose models, or are options from the various Primaris upgrade sprues (for Intercessor Sergeants).
Firstborn Marines are a few generations of multi-pose kits with interchangeable parts. Bits from most kits will fit on most other kits with minimal to no effort. So options remain expansive since anyone who's purchased a large number of kits can easily build whatever they want from their bits box.

Is this fair? Not particularly. But it is rather consistent. Hold onto your hats if your codex is coming soon. You should prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

Monopose has nothing to do with the restrictions on Blightlords. Each body in the kit has a corresponding combi-weapon arm holding half of a combi-weapon, you then add the half you want, with the kit containing 4 bolter halves and 1 each of plasma, melta, and flamer halves. Equipping more combi-weapons only requires acquiring more plasma, melta, or flamer bits, either by buying more boxes of Blightlords or buying/trading for more, which is exactly what must be done to equip Devastators or Retributors with four identical weapons, or Havocs etc. If that is acceptable for those units then it should be for Blightlords.

I also find it odd that you can't build the basic loadout of 5 combi-bolters + 5 swords with the kit, which contains only 4 bolter bits and 3 swords. The rules also allow 5 axes despite the kit only containing 3 axes. This doesn't make sense if the rules are supposed to be based on the contents of the kit.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

stratigo wrote:
Maybe quit the thread while you are ahead? Or the forum even.

There ya go, champ! You and I are gonna be beeeest buddies!

Well telling people to suck it up will grant you that attitude all while trying to appease Senpai GW who won't notice you for doing it. If you really went after them for Eradicators like you claimed you should have no problem going after them for this decision. Pretty damn simple.

I'll grant my choice of words probably wasn't as good as it should have been, but I didn't say suck it up. I said think about it, put it in context, and don't start just extending to other various theories, conspiracies, or ridiculous-isms.

I already sent GW an email.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Not Online!!! wrote:
can we stop piling on on daedalus?

Lord knows i had my fair share of issues with some of his opinions in the past but he is always decent.

I appreciate the words. You're being too kind. I can definitely be a dick, but I'll try harder.

What context? You're the one that brought up slippery slope to a situation that has LITERALLY happened. I posted the pictures for the Plague Marine and Blightlord options. What more context do you really want?

GW is just putting plague marine players in an intolerable situation. Pay for 10 models, get 7, if you want a 10 man squad buy 14 miniatures for the price of 20 and have 4 left over you can't really convert to characters.

At this point GW is literally pushing people to just print out 3 models to make a 10 man squad.

As for sticking with 8e, as a necron player i can say that wasn't an option for us.

 Matt Swain wrote:
GW is just putting plague marine players in an intolerable situation. Pay for 10 models, get 7, if you want a 10 man squad buy 14 miniatures for the price of 20 and have 4 left over you can't really convert to characters.

At this point GW is literally pushing people to just print out 3 models to make a 10 man squad.

As for sticking with 8e, as a necron player i can say that wasn't an option for us.

7 PM is 50CAD
10 Intercessors is 60CAD

Saying that youre paying the price of 10 models when only getting 7 is disingenuous.

And GW probably wants people to run 3x10 PM in their lists, so thats 5 boxes with a min size squad extra.

Still, i think that GW's current pricing for pretty much anything isnt something sustainable. I know i havnt bought anything from GW in a while now and a few people in my playgroup either. Full armies sourced from "alternative" sellers.

The latest thing to piss me off is the cost of the new Night lords Terminators. 120CAD for 5 models... i'll wait a few weeks and get 3 of these kits for the same price.

 kodos wrote:

I know 2 groups who still play 5th Edition

it is not hard as long as you don't need to play pick up games or tournaments

well that is nice for those two groups, I guess. Still considering muliple forums it doesn't seem like you see a lot of lists, tactics talk for other edition then the newest one, and maybe the older editions mentioned as examples. And more important there are no questions about how do I play this in that specific non current edition or people asking for FAQ/errata for armies from those times.

It seems to be even more niche, then open and narrative.

Karol wrote:

 kodos wrote:

I know 2 groups who still play 5th Edition

it is not hard as long as you don't need to play pick up games or tournaments

well that is nice for those two groups, I guess. Still considering muliple forums it doesn't seem like you see a lot of lists, tactics talk for other edition then the newest one, and maybe the older editions mentioned as examples. And more important there are no questions about how do I play this in that specific non current edition or people asking for FAQ/errata for armies from those times.

It seems to be even more niche, then open and narrative.

all it takes if for you to approach your playgroup and ask them to try it out. The rules for older editions can easily be found online.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
GW is just putting plague marine players in an intolerable situation. Pay for 10 models, get 7, if you want a 10 man squad buy 14 miniatures for the price of 20 and have 4 left over you can't really convert to characters.

At this point GW is literally pushing people to just print out 3 models to make a 10 man squad.

As for sticking with 8e, as a necron player i can say that wasn't an option for us.

7 PM is 50CAD
10 Intercessors is 60CAD

Saying that youre paying the price of 10 models when only getting 7 is disingenuous.

And GW probably wants people to run 3x10 PM in their lists, so thats 5 boxes with a min size squad extra.

Still, i think that GW's current pricing for pretty much anything isnt something sustainable. I know i havnt bought anything from GW in a while now and a few people in my playgroup either. Full armies sourced from "alternative" sellers.

The latest thing to piss me off is the cost of the new Night lords Terminators. 120CAD for 5 models... i'll wait a few weeks and get 3 of these kits for the same price.

People not buying new stuff is how WHFB turned into AoS, which really sucked then, and only kind of sucks now. I get the anger at the direction, but the company has to continue to grow and make money. Shareholders are running the show now, and if the company doesn't project/produce record profits every year, then the stocks will tank and things will go downhill. The biggest downside to capitalism is the thought that infinite growth has to occur.

thing is, GW learned nothing from the Death of Warhammer Fantasy

they do the same thing with 40k as they have done to Fantasy, only difference is that they are slower with the changes and it is one Army by the time and not all at once

so they piss of only a small part who still sticks with the game because everyone else is playing it

if people don't stop buying from GW and play their games, this will continue
there is no way out, GW won't change, either accept it or leave

 mokoshkana wrote:
People not buying new stuff is how WHFB turned into AoS, which really sucked then, and only kind of sucks now. I get the anger at the direction, but the company has to continue to grow and make money. Shareholders are running the show now, and if the company doesn't project/produce record profits every year, then the stocks will tank and things will go downhill. The biggest downside to capitalism is the thought that infinite growth has to occur.

If GW decided to sell their Contekar terminators at a reasonable price (lets say 60$), they probably wouldve made 120-180$ from me. Instead theyre getting 0$ and i'll still get my 15 termis. These kind of decisions that are made by board executives only push away normal people and hope on the fact that whales compensate.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

 kodos wrote:

I know 2 groups who still play 5th Edition

it is not hard as long as you don't need to play pick up games or tournaments

well that is nice for those two groups, I guess. Still considering muliple forums it doesn't seem like you see a lot of lists, tactics talk for other edition then the newest one, and maybe the older editions mentioned as examples. And more important there are no questions about how do I play this in that specific non current edition or people asking for FAQ/errata for armies from those times.

It seems to be even more niche, then open and narrative.

all it takes if for you to approach your playgroup and ask them to try it out. The rules for older editions can easily be found online.

All it takes to fail is one or two people in your group to say "no".

Didn't fantasy just died, because GW hiked the prices so high for an army, that the army buying started to be mostly focused around secondary market, 3ed party companies and stuff like that.
I didn't play when fantasy was a thing, but I heard that it was practicaly impossible for a new player to join, because the regular game was pointed at so many points, they stopped getting any new player. And general horror stories like 5 boxs to make one unit and you needed 3 such units etc.

Yup. And silly rules that could result in those giant units being blown off the table in a single turn with no recourse.

 Jidmah wrote:


All it takes to fail is one or two people in your group to say "no".

well that too. It kind of is like the playing of non GW games. Who is going to buy and arm an, what ever points is played in lets say 6th ed, army to play vs 3-4 people. where 1-2 droping means you will have an illegal or, at best, bad army to use. That is a very big risk. And I understand that there can be people who will just not care, because they can buy a new 2000pts army every 2-3 months. But lets just say this is not something a lot of people can do, and probably no new players.

 Matt Swain wrote:
GW is just putting plague marine players in an intolerable situation. Pay for 10 models, get 7, if you want a 10 man squad buy 14 miniatures for the price of 20 and have 4 left over you can't really convert to characters.

At this point GW is literally pushing people to just print out 3 models to make a 10 man squad.

As for sticking with 8e, as a necron player i can say that wasn't an option for us.

I assume their idea is either:

1) You have Dark Imperium which IIRC had 7 guys with a plasma gun (legal)

2) You buy one box (7) and the ETB Plague Marines (3) and field a squad of 10 with 2 blight launchers or 1 blight launcher and something else (legal)

Wayniac wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
GW is just putting plague marine players in an intolerable situation. Pay for 10 models, get 7, if you want a 10 man squad buy 14 miniatures for the price of 20 and have 4 left over you can't really convert to characters.

At this point GW is literally pushing people to just print out 3 models to make a 10 man squad.

As for sticking with 8e, as a necron player i can say that wasn't an option for us.

I assume their idea is either:

1) You have Dark Imperium which IIRC had 7 guys with a plasma gun (legal)

2) You buy one box (7) and the ETB Plague Marines (3) and field a squad of 10 with 2 blight launchers or 1 blight launcher and something else (legal)

sadly the ETB marines are on sale anymore, at least here

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Monopose has nothing to do with the restrictions on Blightlords. Each body in the kit has a corresponding combi-weapon arm holding half of a combi-weapon, you then add the half you want, with the kit containing 4 bolter halves and 1 each of plasma, melta, and flamer halves. Equipping more combi-weapons only requires acquiring more plasma, melta, or flamer bits, either by buying more boxes of Blightlords or buying/trading for more, which is exactly what must be done to equip Devastators or Retributors with four identical weapons, or Havocs etc. If that is acceptable for those units then it should be for Blightlords.

I also find it odd that you can't build the basic loadout of 5 combi-bolters + 5 swords with the kit, which contains only 4 bolter bits and 3 swords. The rules also allow 5 axes despite the kit only containing 3 axes. This doesn't make sense if the rules are supposed to be based on the contents of the kit.

It makes sense if you see the goal is to restrict DG players from having powerful, focused units a la Primaris.