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Still keen to actually see the state of ogres. Will they be fleshing out the faction? Or acting as mercs for the other surrounding races? Damn curious as they were my main faction most of Pre AOS.

According to the Warhammer Community article, the GW studio worked with CA to develop Cathay for this game. [In the video, Mark Bedford literally says 'seeing what CA has done with my concepts.' Andy Hoare mentions spending months on this stuff.

So it'd be weird if they didn't do something with it at some point, though obviously the practical side of things (why cathay would care about the other side of the world, basically, and how they would get there) is always an open question.

Voss wrote:
According to the Warhammer Community article, the GW studio worked with CA to develop Cathay for this game.

So it'd be weird if they didn't do something with it at some point, though obviously the practical side of things (why cathay would care about the other side of the world, basically, and how they would get there) is always an open question.

The same reason how/why Lizardmen could go everywhere despite being in the fantasy equivalent of the Amazon rainforest. Magic and to chase the magical McGuffin.

China reached into Central Asia with its armies and trade, so that easily establishes potential conflict with the Ogres, and Chaos (since Marauders are supposed to broadly cover all the "barbarians" ranging from Norsca all the way to the steppes of fantasy Asia).

The interesting thing will be the playstyle, and how they will make it different yet balanced with the human playstyle of the Empire. For example, I have heard it argued in the past for people to use the Empire rules to represent Cathay as both are human empires with baseline humans and some tech like cannons.

I wonder how many people have been trawling the internet today to figure out all they can about Cathay?

I'm sure google search data would show a massive spike in that

Very surprised to see Cathay and Kislev. As many have said, Cathay has not had a tabletop presence nevermind a video game appearance. I recall theories that Kislev would be involved, but it seemed strange to shift this one city into its own faction.

I'm actually rather confident on the choice of factions. Vampire Coast was basically a footnote stretched to a full faction with four LLs. It had its own identity and its own way of playing.

Hoping for Chaos Dwarves and Ogres, but I wonder if Araby might be included as well.

Ancient one looking for a champion? And Chaos Daemons happen to have 5 LL slots? Well, that's gotta be Be'lakor, right?

And Cathay. Holy gak. Did not see that coming. All hail the Jade Dragon Emperor, I guess (he better be a dragon!).

 SkavenLord wrote:
Hoping for Chaos Dwarves and Ogres, but I wonder if Araby might be included as well.

I think we're pretty safe with Ogres, and a decent chance of getting Chaos Dwarfs.

Araby however, no. They're right in the middle of the map currently, and TW3 is taking us east. Waaaay east, given that we're getting Cathay.

I do hope that we get Araby some day, as they're a big faction that, unlike Ind or Nippon, aren't off the edge of the map. They're in the centre of it. All the locations in Araby are places you can go/conquer in TW2, yet there's no Araby faction. Very frustrating.

cody.d. wrote:
Still keen to actually see the state of ogres. Will they be fleshing out the faction? Or acting as mercs for the other surrounding races? Damn curious as they were my main faction most of Pre AOS.

Almost certainly their own faction, and most likely candidate for the preorder race. 'Mercs' aren't really an approach CA has done with Warhammer, barring maybe Gotrek & Felix (though I'd call that a stretch).
Given where the game 3 map is focused, not including them would be odd. Though I suspect like TK and Vampire Coast, their goals won't align with the focus of the campaign for the base races (both of those ignored the 'Vortex race').
But the mountains of the ogres are basically the central southern area of the (paper) map snippet we're shown, between the Kislev and Cathayan figures.

Having them in the game at the start gives an unpredictable threat to deal with rather than turtling up as Kislev or Cathay, and just focusing all the attention northwards.

I really want to see the base game map. Does it include the Darklands? Hell Pit? The NE corner of the Empire? The mountains with Azhag and Ungrim? After warhammer 2 its clear that CA is willing to contort the map somewhat (especially for Mortal Empires), but how far will this go for the base game?
---

@Skavenlord- Kislev isn't one city. They're a full country (though not as big as the Poland, Russia and general Slavic people they vaguely represent). Currently they have 8 or 9 provinces on the Mortal Empires map. I'd expect to see all of them (and maybe a couple more, considering the base game maps are zoomed in compared to the Mortal Empires map), as part of the base game map for TW3.

---

HBMC wrote:Ancient one looking for a champion? And Chaos Daemons happen to have 5 LL slots? Well, that's gotta be Be'lakor, right?

I'm thinking he'll be around as the instigator (and maybe final challenge), but not playable. What leads you to believe they get 5 LL slots? I saw 9 in total, but no breakdown by faction. I was thinking 3/2/4 (1 for each god). At least to start with.

Voss wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Still keen to actually see the state of ogres. Will they be fleshing out the faction? Or acting as mercs for the other surrounding races? Damn curious as they were my main faction most of Pre AOS.

Almost certainly their own faction, and most likely candidate for the preorder race. 'Mercs' aren't really an approach CA has done with Warhammer, barring maybe Gotrek & Felix (though I'd call that a stretch).
Given where the game 3 map is focused, not including them would be odd. Though I suspect like TK and Vampire Coast, their goals won't align with the focus of the campaign for the base races (both of those ignored the 'Vortex race').
But the mountains of the ogres are basically the central southern area of the (paper) map snippet we're shown, between the Kislev and Cathayan figures.

Having them in the game at the start gives an unpredictable threat to deal with rather than turtling up as Kislev or Cathay, and just focusing all the attention northwards.

I really want to see the base game map. Does it include the Darklands? Hell Pit? The NE corner of the Empire? The mountains with Azhag and Ungrim? After warhammer 2 its clear that CA is willing to contort the map somewhat (especially for Mortal Empires), but how far will this go for the base game?
---

@Skavenlord- Kislev isn't one city. They're a full country (though not as big as the Poland, Russia and general Slavic people they vaguely represent). Currently they have 8 or 9 provinces on the Mortal Empires map. I'd expect to see all of them (and maybe a couple more, considering the base game maps are zoomed in compared to the Mortal Empires map), as part of the base game map for TW3.

---

HBMC wrote:Ancient one looking for a champion? And Chaos Daemons happen to have 5 LL slots? Well, that's gotta be Be'lakor, right?

I'm thinking he'll be around as the instigator (and maybe final challenge), but not playable. What leads you to believe they get 5 LL slots? I saw 9 in total, but no breakdown by faction. I was thinking 3/2/4 (1 for each god). At least to start with.

The issue with Ogres as a faction is the fact that they have so few unit options on the tabletop. Will they be splitting options into multiple units? Like maneaters being not just one option but those from cathay, araby, empire, chaos being their own selections with different abilities? Still super keen regardless to watch those gluttonous buggers storming through the smaller races.

Voss wrote:
What leads you to believe they get 5 LL slots? I saw 9 in total, but no breakdown by faction. I was thinking 3/2/4 (1 for each god). At least to start with.

Everyone else has started with 2 LLs.

Chaos isn't because then there would be 12 LLs in the base game (2 for Kislev, 2 for Cathay, and then 2 each for Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch). That's too many to start with, so perhaps the 5th is there to let people play 'combined' Chaos Daemon armies, rather than being restricted to only one. Be'lakor fits that mould very easily.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Voss wrote:
What leads you to believe they get 5 LL slots? I saw 9 in total, but no breakdown by faction. I was thinking 3/2/4 (1 for each god). At least to start with.

Everyone else has started with 2 LLs.

Chaos isn't because then there would be 12 LLs in the base game (2 for Kislev, 2 for Cathay, and then 2 each for Khorne/Nurgle/Slaanesh/Tzeentch). That's too many to start with, so perhaps the 5th is there to let people play 'combined' Chaos Daemon armies, rather than being restricted to only one. Be'lakor fits that mould very easily.

That's true. I get a bit lost in the utter _glut_ of LLs they've added to the game 2 base races (six of each, sheesh, and yes I'm presuming DE will get their sixth with the last DLC/FLC) and forgot they started with just a pair each.
But... I do think that if they were planning a 'combined' daemon army, they'd advertise it as a 'seventh' faction.

cody.d wrote:The issue with Ogres as a faction is the fact that they have so few unit options on the tabletop. Will they be splitting options into multiple units? Like maneaters being not just one option but those from cathay, araby, empire, chaos being their own selections with different abilities? Still super keen regardless to watch those gluttonous buggers storming through the smaller races.

Well, they're not terribly afraid to expand into Forge World units and/or just make stuff up (Norsca & Vampire Coast, for example, and obviously Kislev and Cathay are going to feature a lot of never-before-seen stuff).
Sometimes, yes, units are just weapon variations deckhands with guns/bombs/blunderbuss, units with or without halberds, etc.

They also have started with modest rosters and then expanded with DLC. On the negative side of things the chaos warriors and beastmen both started with limited/incomplete rosters and unfortunately haven't (yet) been expanded.

Seeing some Rhinox riders would be fairly fun. Though the scale of ogres in general is going to be adding quite a lot to TWW3. Having cav that big will be pretty insane.

Voss wrote:
They also have started with modest rosters and then expanded with DLC. On the negative side of things the chaos warriors and beastmen both started with limited/incomplete rosters and unfortunately haven't (yet) been expanded.

Were the Bloodcrushers part of the first game? It’s been a while, but I don’t recall seeing them in-game before. Hopefully their inclusion in the trailer implies some kind of WoC update.

Really stoked for Cathay!

Absolutely stoked for playing as khorne deamons!

I wonder how the campaign will look for demons.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 SkavenLord wrote:

Voss wrote:
They also have started with modest rosters and then expanded with DLC. On the negative side of things the chaos warriors and beastmen both started with limited/incomplete rosters and unfortunately haven't (yet) been expanded.

Were the Bloodcrushers part of the first game? It’s been a while, but I don’t recall seeing them in-game before. Hopefully their inclusion in the trailer implies some kind of WoC update.

No bloodcrushers. Only monster cav in the game is demigryphs knights. And they wreck face.

I think Game 3 will be Monster cav galore :(

I really hope they balance it out with regiments.

And those weren't Bloodcrushers. They were Skullcrushers.

I know them as the juggernaut riding dudes..

 SkavenLord wrote:

Voss wrote:
They also have started with modest rosters and then expanded with DLC. On the negative side of things the chaos warriors and beastmen both started with limited/incomplete rosters and unfortunately haven't (yet) been expanded.

Were the Bloodcrushers part of the first game? It’s been a while, but I don’t recall seeing them in-game before. Hopefully their inclusion in the trailer implies some kind of WoC update.

Nope. WoC were very minimal and have continued to be minimal. It looks like they're going for god specific armies here. The presence of Skullcrushers (chaos warriors on juggers) with Bloodletters and a Bloodthirster implies that they're going for god themed armies rather than specifically the Chaos Daemons army book.

I'm not sure they'll do much with WoC beyond a legacy faction. They finally made the chaos invasion optional with the last DLC, and Sigvald could easily be bumped to a Slaanesh roster.
Depending on how they do things, Archaeon could be a 'rival' in this game for 'championhood' since most of his quests already involve getting the artifacts he needed for being Everchosen. On the other hand, WoC could be a good target for an update- as is, they're pretty bland, and the general strategy is 'spam X and just roll forward. X can be different if you're running Kholek.

I still hope the last Warhammer 2 DLC hits beastmen. They still lack units from their actual army book, which is absurd.

If they do it right, god specific armies could be a lot better than trying to overhaul Chaos Warriors into something interesting, but it depends where exactly they're taking the base campaign.

Floodgates open.

Literally every single minor faction is fair play now. I'd like to see Indi weretigers.

This makes me exceted because CA and GW have been working together and this might mean that Cathay is coming to TOW, just like they are basing Kislev on the current showed art.

Shout out to Rotigus. Wanna know how the Chaosreal you got here if you have just existed for less than 5 years anyway.

 CMLR wrote:
Literally every single minor faction is fair play now. I'd like to see Indi weretigers.

Araby! They had a Warmaster army. They're perfect for this, and right in the middle of everything.

Voss wrote:

 SkavenLord wrote:

Voss wrote:
They also have started with modest rosters and then expanded with DLC. On the negative side of things the chaos warriors and beastmen both started with limited/incomplete rosters and unfortunately haven't (yet) been expanded.

Were the Bloodcrushers part of the first game? It’s been a while, but I don’t recall seeing them in-game before. Hopefully their inclusion in the trailer implies some kind of WoC update.

Nope. WoC were very minimal and have continued to be minimal. It looks like they're going for god specific armies here. The presence of Skullcrushers (chaos warriors on juggers) with Bloodletters and a Bloodthirster implies that they're going for god themed armies rather than specifically the Chaos Daemons army book.

I'm not sure they'll do much with WoC beyond a legacy faction. They finally made the chaos invasion optional with the last DLC, and Sigvald could easily be bumped to a Slaanesh roster.
Depending on how they do things, Archaeon could be a 'rival' in this game for 'championhood' since most of his quests already involve getting the artifacts he needed for being Everchosen. On the other hand, WoC could be a good target for an update- as is, they're pretty bland, and the general strategy is 'spam X and just roll forward. X can be different if you're running Kholek.

I still hope the last Warhammer 2 DLC hits beastmen. They still lack units from their actual army book, which is absurd.

If they do it right, god specific armies could be a lot better than trying to overhaul Chaos Warriors into something interesting, but it depends where exactly they're taking the base campaign.

They could have done a mechanic similiar to blessed units for lizardmen. If you garner enough favour with certain god you can recruit specialist troops with the relvant mark. Some mods have marked units and extra units not found in vanila which actualy work quite well. And they are free.

I wonder if they will be running it on the same engine as WH2 or if they went next gen and did a new engine. I think the former coz unless they have some long term plan for more TW games it would be throwing a lot of monies away.

Im happy we are likely to start with cathay as faction and not DLC later down the line. Maybe get nippon as well as DLC. SO many possibilities.
Finaly something to look forward to. I actually need to finish up my imrik campaign. I was pretty much done... Would have been satisfied with nagarond ulthuan and lustria which im almost done taking. But reikland stabbed me in the back and dragged the order tide against me just as I was ready to call it finished. So I had Tyrion get the sword of khaine and go on a b-line rampage straight into the empire smashing all the armies Bretonia and empire threw against him. SOK anearion bloodline tyrion is bad ass... soloing 2-3 armies by himself is hela fun

I'd wager they might do it by major cities. Eg you dedicate a city to a specific Chaos God and can recruit their demonic units from that city into your army. With each god perhaps bringing bonuses of their own; creating an interesting dynamic of either maxing out one god in every city for an insane bonus in one area; or mix and matching your gods.

 Argive wrote:

They could have done a mechanic similiar to blessed units for beastmen. If you garner enough favour with certain god you can recruit specialist troops with the relvant mark. Some mods have marked units and extra units not found in vanila which actualy work quite well. And they are free.

I wonder if they will be running it on the same engine as WH2 or if they went next gen and did a new engine. I think the former coz unless they have some long term plan for more TW games it would be throwing a lot of monies away.

I'd expect the same engine. I expect any systems changes will come right out of Troy (and 3K for diplomacy). Troy had several things that look like test mechanics, and that's honestly part of what the Saga games are for.
1- Different currencies (bronze, food, stone, wood and gold) and a slightly different approach to trade goods. I don't think we'll see the same type of currencies, but something slightly more complex could happen. Though hopefully with a lot of refinement, as trade in Troy was stupidly exploitable and broken. Beyond the pale of the TW series, even worse than the junk ancillary trading in three kingdoms.

2- Divine favor. Different levels of blessings for various gods that you have to keep up with rites and specific units, and unlocking specific hero types (which I can easily see being implemented for Greater Daemons, so you don't end up with a 20 stack of Bloodthirsters).

I'd expect the next big engine change for TW won't happen until their next game (whatever it is). As the third in a trilogy, this would be a good choice for a last hurrah, and they can do a couple years of DLC for it, and squeeze out another year or two of DLC for Troy and 3K before launching the Next Big Thing.

It certainly won't be a new engine. CA had enough trouble porting Norsca to Warhammer 2 when they changed a few ways on how Norsca worked as a faction and basically had to delay their Warhammer 2 release for ages as they rebuilt the whole faction.

It will be the same engine so that CA can port all the Warhammer 1 and 2 races into 3 easily. If they used a new engine they'd like as not have to rebuild all the old factions and that would be a mammoth task ontop of the mammoth of making a new engine.

Voss wrote:

I still hope the last Warhammer 2 DLC hits beastmen. They still lack units from their actual army book, which is absurd.

While pretty much everyone agrees that Beastmen need a lot of love, I'd be surprised if they get a redo before the third game is released. When the Wood Elves got their expansion, CA explained well in advance exactly how the new DLC would interact with the various content options that players had (i.e. players who had the second game but not the first game, and players who bought the new DLC but didn't own the original Wood Elf DLC). We knew all of that months before we knew any details about the DLC other than the fact it would include Wood Elves. We haven't heard anything similar regarding Beastmen. Given that, I doubt we're going to see a Beastmen overhaul before the third game arrives.

I'll also note that a Beastman DLC that does for them what the last DLC did for Wood Elves would also fit much more thematically with the third game.

Cathay is coming to TOW

More immediately, Cathay might be coming to Age of Sigmar.

I get a bit lost in the utter _glut_ of LLs they've added to the game 2 base races (six of each, sheesh, and yes I'm presuming DE will get their sixth with the last DLC/FLC) and forgot they started with just a pair each.

The Empire and the Dwarves could also use another LL each to match them up with their counterparts from the first game.

Voss wrote:

Well, they're not terribly afraid to expand into Forge World units and/or just make stuff up (Norsca & Vampire Coast, for example

Lol, none of that was made up, most if not all of it existed in some form in older editions of the game (though Vampire Coast was only conceptually hinted at in the past, we never saw any artwork or miniatures for their units).

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:

Well, they're not terribly afraid to expand into Forge World units and/or just make stuff up (Norsca & Vampire Coast, for example

Lol, none of that was made up, most if not all of it existed in some form in older editions of the game (though Vampire Coast was only conceptually hinted at in the past, we never saw any artwork or miniatures for their units).

Yeah.... with no artwork or minis, many of their units (even an LL) were... not created for the DLC?
Ok then.

The crazy shipwreck construct thing appeared in Monstrous Arcanum I think.

I believe it also had a model from Forgeworld at one stage and the Vampire Pirate army in itself appeared in White Dwarf.

@Skavenlord- Kislev isn't one city. They're a full country (though not as big as the Poland, Russia and general Slavic people they vaguely represent). Currently they have 8 or 9 provinces on the Mortal Empires map. I'd expect to see all of them (and maybe a couple more, considering the base game maps are zoomed in compared to the Mortal Empires map), as part of the base game map for TW3.

Kislev is also the captial city of Kislev

So much cool stuff. Chaos Dwarfs?

Voss wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

Voss wrote:

Well, they're not terribly afraid to expand into Forge World units and/or just make stuff up (Norsca & Vampire Coast, for example

Lol, none of that was made up, most if not all of it existed in some form in older editions of the game (though Vampire Coast was only conceptually hinted at in the past, we never saw any artwork or miniatures for their units).

Yeah.... with no artwork or minis, many of their units (even an LL) were... not created for the DLC?
Ok then.

Uhh... most if not all the units existed, they were published as an army list in White Dwarf 306 in June 2005: https://warhammer-fantasy-battle.fandom.com/wiki/Vampire_Coast

What, you think Creative Assembly just made them up???

Likewise Kislev had a WHFB army list and miniatures range and an even more complete Warmaster army list and miniatures range. Norsca you have to go back to the 90s and like 3rd edition WHFB for their army lists and minis, a bit before my time in the hobby, but they too existed.

Kislev is also the captial city of Kislev

Isn't Praag the capital city of Kislev?

Nope Praag is one of the cities but the capital is also called Kislev

The first known settlement was a small trading colony set up on the banks of the River Urskoy around the year 500 IC and known as Pelzburg. It enjoyed some prosperity in its dealings with the roving tribesmen, migrating Gospodars, and a few hardy merchants from the Empire. It was later renamed Dorogo, in honour of a great war leader grew to become a flourishing city of trade, establishing links with the Dwarfs.

That city was razed to the ground when Khan-Queen Miska the Slaughterer led a great migration of Gospodars came over the Worlds Edge Mountains. Aware of the importance of its location, she immediately began rebuilding, renaming it Kislev before embarking on a long and bloody campaign of unification. it was completed by her daughter, the Khan-Queen Shoika, who took on the title of Tzarina after its completion. Its founding also marked the beginning of the Kislevite calendar, year 1 /1524 IC.

Once again the city grew and prospered, forming trade links with many other nations, even stretching over the Worlds Edge Mountains to distant Cathay. [1b]

During the Great War Against Chaos, Kislev was relieved by a combined force of an army from the Empire, Elves led by Teclis and Dwarfs from Karaz-a-Karak

see https://whfb.lexicanum.com/wiki/Kislev for more info and image/links to various units in lore.