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chaos0xomega wrote:


WIthin the context of Ynnari, their first appearance was in early 2017 and Blood of the Phoenix brought us "Ynnari" versions of a couple units in 2019. While its possible that some of the plans for Ynnari may have been changed, they have not been scrapped entirely, these things just take time.

If by Ynnari versions, you mean the Banshee Exarch without the full helmet? That's not unique to the Ynnari and a concept sketch by Jes Goodwin of a Banshee Exarch from one of the previous edition's Eldar Codex release showed the same. This was the same time that the Dire Avenger Exarch with open helmet was released. GW just went lazy and called it a Ynnari option but I don't see anything specifically Ynnari about it. To really expand the Ynnari as a faction, they need to have a unique selection of units that doesn't just borrow from other lists. Right now the only thing uniquely Ynnari are their special characters and the Yncarne.

Frankly though I like the different Eldar viewpoints. We have Craftworlds, Dark Eldar, Ynnari, Harlequins, and rumors of Exodites. Up to 5 different major branches of the Eldar, all with their own philosophy of how best to survive. I'm all for more differentiation and exploration of non-Imperial factions.

If by Ynnari versions, you mean the Banshee Exarch without the full helmet?

Wait was that really the only difference? Wow. I thought it was more than that.

To really expand the Ynnari as a faction, they need to have a unique selection of units that doesn't just borrow from other lists. Right now the only thing uniquely Ynnari are their special characters and the Yncarne.

I agree. I guess time will tell. I honestly thought the Ynnari Incubi and Howling Banshees were more than just a headswap but I guess not.

Frankly though I like the different Eldar viewpoints. We have Craftworlds, Dark Eldar, Ynnari, Harlequins, and rumors of Exodites. Up to 5 different major branches of the Eldar, all with their own philosophy of how best to survive. I'm all for more differentiation and exploration of non-Imperial factions.

6 Different major branches - you can't discount the Crone World Aeldari.

chaos0xomega wrote:

If by Ynnari versions, you mean the Banshee Exarch without the full helmet?

Wait was that really the only difference? Wow. I thought it was more than that.

Close to - you could do a full squad of banshees and a full squad of incubi with no helmets and GW said that was a Ynarri thing.

Why Ynnari hate hats they didn’t say, but that’s apparently a thing (Visarch aside)...

 cuda1179 wrote:
I know it's probably not realistic, but I am hoping there are at least a couple minor models out there they haven't shown us yet. Preferably something new.

I find it telling that in the course of 4 months the only thing they teased us with is Lelith (the video that teased her and the various 'lieutenants' was around the SM/Necron release). And many things were delayed, so they needed to fill space, and yet still nothing, just an Incubi profile in November, and now warriors and the heavy poison bolter. At this point, not showing things off (if they exist) would be bad call.

Careful what you wish for.

GW hears they want more new models
Thinks great time to roll out Primaris Lieutenant 173 that will get them hyped.

Marine players lap it up and everyone not playing marines decieds screw this I'm out.

a_typical_hero wrote:

 Argive wrote:

a_typical_hero wrote:
I think you have to wait for special rules to get the hype started.

Marines don't have exciting stats, either.

Minimum 2W troops....
3W T5 basic troops
ATV?
Sword mateys ?
100+ data sheets to pick from

*Looks at kabalite leaked stat as comparison*
LOLS and walks off..

1. As was possible since 8th edition. Exciting? For those who like their Firstborn armies and assumed GW would put them into Legends. Quite a different situation to Dark Eldar.
2. S4 T5 W3 A2 Sv3+. Exciting?
3. A Primaris Attack Bike with twice the wounds and attacks for twice the price of an Attack Bike. Exciting?
4. S4 T4 W3 A3 Sv3+. Exciting?
5. 100+ data sheets were not previewed, so there is nothing to get excited about.

I'll throw another one in:
S3 T3 W1 A4 Sv6+
Exciting statline, right? Belongs to one of the, if not the strongest armies right now and is their only Troupe choice.

But it can get better:
M6" S3 T3 W1 A2 Sv7+
Statline of one of the hardest hitting melee units right now.

A statline alone is nothing to get excited about.


Mind giving me a realistic example statline for Kabalites that would excite you?

You are the one that stated marines dont have exciting stat lines. Despite having acess to 100+ data sheets being able to run anything from scouts to repulsors/ super heavies...
Despite having acess to 100+ data sheets... Marines dont have exciting stat lines. Anywhere. According to you. You said it not me. I was merely pointing out that if you compare the Kabalite to 99% of them (maybe bar scouts ? ) its far more lame.. Of course you are welcome to disagree and you can happily field and buy all the DE you can get your mits on instead of space marines.

Lord Zarkov wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

If by Ynnari versions, you mean the Banshee Exarch without the full helmet?

Wait was that really the only difference? Wow. I thought it was more than that.

Close to - you could do a full squad of banshees and a full squad of incubi with no helmets and GW said that was a Ynarri thing.

Why Ynnari hate hats they didn’t say, but that’s apparently a thing (Visarch aside)...

I'm actually vaguely insulted that GW expects me to believe that not putting a helmeted head on my minis is a customization feature that makes them into a completely separate unit for a different army or whatever.

chaos0xomega wrote:


6 Different major branches - you can't discount the Crone World Aeldari.

Shhh.. We dont talk about those..

I wish/hope that is the case there would be more releases coming for DE but I really doubt it at this point.

Regarding the plastic Banshee release, yeah overall that was pretty underwhelming. I mean, yes its great they redid them in plastic - big win. But I had hoped they might do more with them; like maybe alternate weapon option, alternate helmet (not just bare heads = Ynarri) maybe some add on bits. Then of course tying the initial release into a poor overpriced box set took it to a new level of meh.
It feels like adding some options to them would make them sell better as well - more incentive for folks who already have them in metal or failcast to upgrade but what do I know.

petrov27 wrote:
I wish/hope that is the case there would be more releases coming for DE but I really doubt it at this point.

Regarding the plastic Banshee release, yeah overall that was pretty underwhelming. I mean, yes its great they redid them in plastic - big win. But I had hoped they might do more with them; like maybe alternate weapon option, alternate helmet (not just bare heads = Ynarri) maybe some add on bits. Then of course tying the initial release into a poor overpriced box set took it to a new level of meh.
It feels like adding some options to them would make them sell better as well - more incentive for folks who already have them in metal or failcast to upgrade but what do I know.

Yeah. Missed opportunity. A whole squad with either sword and pistol or twin blades or executioner would have been nice veriety.

petrov27 wrote:
I wish/hope that is the case there would be more releases coming for DE but I really doubt it at this point.

GW isn't the type to be that coy about new miniatures. If there were anything in the pipeline, they absolutely would have at least hinted at it already. I don't think even the Rumor Engine has anything indicative of a single DE model. Remember how far back we had that first blurry shot of the Outriders and Storm Speeder?

Yeah, there's nothing, it's a one-model codex release, that's why it got shuffled up to the front in the time of covid. I'm also guessing the only reason we got a litlte mini-preview so early is GW wanted to get out in front of potential datasheet leaks from instructional booklets.

The HW Community team has been providing these little snippets in the “down weeks” of the release schedule. The full lowdown will come after the official announcement of preorder date.

 alextroy wrote:
The HW Community team has been providing these little snippets in the “down weeks” of the release schedule. The full lowdown will come after the official announcement of preorder date.

That so? well, I stand corrected then. I thought we got like 4 previews for the new DA and DG.

They missed a good opportunity to make Banshees a 10-man dual-kit with parts for a completely new unit, which is what they often do with existing units that get re-done so that even old players have a reason to buy. The whole Banshee/Incubi release was every kind of awful you can think of: an initial expensive 2-army pack sticking you with old models followed by a year-later release that was a 5-model squad for the price of a 10-model squad.

There's still too much of both armies in resin with no plans to remake them, I'd be surprised if Drukhari got anything beyond the codex and some repacked items and GW justifies the poor sales as disinterest for another 10 years

the_scotsman wrote:
I'm also guessing the only reason we got a litlte mini-preview so early is GW wanted to get out in front of potential datasheet leaks from instructional booklets.

Yes, they say so in the article. It’s a preview in anticipation for the reboxings (that are coming this month), not for the codex (which we don’t know yet when it is coming)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
They missed a good opportunity to make Banshees a 10-man dual-kit with parts for a completely new unit

I agree with you. But... *sigh* i’m not sure GW does. I still remember when they changed Dire Avengers from a 10-models box to a 5-model box, and increased the price by 10%

ursvamp wrote:

the_scotsman wrote:
I'm also guessing the only reason we got a litlte mini-preview so early is GW wanted to get out in front of potential datasheet leaks from instructional booklets.

Yes, they say so in the article. It’s a preview in anticipation for the reboxings (that are coming this month), not for the codex (which we don’t know yet when it is coming)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kalamadea wrote:
They missed a good opportunity to make Banshees a 10-man dual-kit with parts for a completely new unit

I agree with you. But... *sigh* i’m not sure GW does. I still remember when they changed Dire Avengers from a 10-models box to a 5-model box, and increased the price by 10%

TBH, I think the 10-man to 5-man reboxing may have been the community's fault to some extent. The reboxing happened at a time when Eldar players were popularly running two 5 man DA squads as part of MSU spam lists in Wave Serpents. I can only imagine that someone in GWs marketing/accounting team looked at whatever data collection GW does on customer behavior and said to themselves that they are getting fleeced selling Eldar players 2 units for the price of 1. The same has been true of some of the other units that GW has done unit reboxings on without updating the minis.

GWs product and pricing strategies are based on production costs leveraged against expected sales and lifetime value, etc. (rather than the false meme of "its based on point costs of the unit") which is how you end up with a 20-skellie box of Mortek Guard costing the same as a 5-man unit of CSM Termies. The expectation is that units will most commonly be run in a configuration that aligns with the contents of the box that GW is selling you. They are always happy to sell you more copies of the same kit if you need to tool up a unit with equipment, as that just drives up the ROI on the product, but they try to avoid giving you any sort of real dollar efficiency by letting you double dip on something if it means a stark reduction in that products sales performance. If they see that people are overwhelmingly achieving some unintended dollar efficiency running two min units from a box designed to produce one max unit, they are going to respond in kind - especially if people are only buying one copy of that box to cover their entire army when it was expected the average customer in the market for that product would by 2, 3, 4+ copies of that box to form an armies core.

Going back to the aforementioned marketing/accounting example, its not hard to imagine that GW tracks the sales performance of every one of its specific SKUs. I have no doubt that they ran a report one day on kits that were drastically underperforming vs expected sales estimates and Dire Avengers came up on it, amongst others. That would trigger an investigation into why, and when it was noticed that it was apparently common behavior for Eldar players to buy one, and only one, 10 man box in order to field two 5 man units in their army, they got their numbers back in line with projections by changing the contents of the box to force more sales.

chaos0xomega wrote:
TBH, I think the 10-man to 5-man reboxing may have been the community's fault to some extent. The reboxing happened at a time when Eldar players were popularly running two 5 man DA squads as part of MSU spam lists in Wave Serpents. I can only imagine that someone in GWs marketing/accounting team looked at whatever data collection GW does on customer behavior and said to themselves that they are getting fleeced selling Eldar players 2 units for the price of 1. The same has been true of some of the other units that GW has done unit reboxings on without updating the minis.

and for the same reason we see 5 model boxes of Space Marines, because 5 model units were the most used unit sice outside of some CSM fluff lists, for 3 Editions

chaos0xomega wrote:


TBH, I think the 10-man to 5-man reboxing may have been the community's fault to some extent. (+stuff!)

Interesting! Thanks for the rundown

 Kalamadea wrote:
They missed a good opportunity to make Banshees a 10-man dual-kit with parts for a completely new unit, which is what they often do with existing units that get re-done so that even old players have a reason to buy. The whole Banshee/Incubi release was every kind of awful you can think of: an initial expensive 2-army pack sticking you with old models followed by a year-later release that was a 5-model squad for the price of a 10-model squad.

There's still too much of both armies in resin with no plans to remake them, I'd be surprised if Drukhari got anything beyond the codex and some repacked items and GW justifies the poor sales as disinterest for another 10 years

I was very disappointed that this didn't happen. Imperial units get this treatment, but the banshees seemed to be 'literally convert this failcast unit into a plastic one please', which seems at odds with their need to sell units...


Imagine if you will, a plastic kit that made craftworld banshees AND Ynnari 'hag warriors' or whatever, you not only get two different units out of the same sprue, you cover two different ARMIES in the same sprue. GW's thorough enjoyment of doing this for marines makes this a no brainer...

agreed - I just do not understand their decisions on some of these things.

Maybe this is too out there, but ok, they only have "space" in their production lineup to do a single DE release for 9th because of all the drastically needed Space Mareen Lts that need to be done. OK. So they choose to do Hesperax - good to get rid of a failcast offering and such. But why not offer that as a "dual kit" box? Like I get that it must be "single pose" because of reasons, but give it a head option and weapon/hand options. Right there then you got the new Hesperax sculpt that all DE players were screaming for (not) but the kit also has a different head and weapon options to build some other new HQ choice they add with new rules. Everyone wins right? GW sells more because folks will want two boxes of this to build both options assuming the rules for both are not total butt.

 Hellebore wrote:
Imagine if you will, a plastic kit that made craftworld banshees AND Ynnari 'hag warriors' or whatever, you not only get two different units out of the same sprue, you cover two different ARMIES in the same sprue. GW's thorough enjoyment of doing this for marines makes this a no brainer...

One kit covering two armies from the same game system? Hersey!

Ynnari always struck me as a half-baked idea that never really went anywhere. Even a whole edition after they were introduced they've not progressed beyond "Oh, yeah, them. Umm... here are some alternate helmets in the Banshee kit."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ynnari always struck me as a half-baked idea that never really went anywhere. Even a whole edition after they were introduced they've not progressed beyond "Oh, yeah, them. Umm... here are some alternate helmets in the Banshee kit."

As I've said before, we should just have Ynnari HQs that are treated like Inquisition except for Eldar armies.

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ynnari always struck me as a half-baked idea that never really went anywhere. Even a whole edition after they were introduced they've not progressed beyond "Oh, yeah, them. Umm... here are some alternate helmets in the Banshee kit."

As I've said before, we should just have Ynnari HQs that are treated like Inquisition except for Eldar armies.

I think that there's a range of simple things you can do for the Ynnari that reflect them without building an entire army for them. This is one thing, but you can do some basic stuff like:

Upgrade sprues for craftworlds, DE, harlies. Like the marine chapter sprues. You could maybe add a single unique model on each one that represents a new squad leader that emerges from the Ynnari, and further differentiates the squad you upgrade.

Your example HQs, unique HQs that mean you aren't forced to use special characters.

I think they should get at least one new troop - maybe some kind of resurrected/reborn eldar that maybe reflect the pre-fall eldar and their psychic supremecy to show how Ynnead are supposed to bring back the glory days of the eldar.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Ynnari always struck me as a half-baked idea that never really went anywhere. Even a whole edition after they were introduced they've not progressed beyond "Oh, yeah, them. Umm... here are some alternate helmets in the Banshee kit."

It doesn't help that the mere existence of Ynnari also seems to have stalled all other progress on the Eldar factions.

Quick question (I've been up for 20 hours, so forgive me if this is silly)

Is there anything that keeps the Dark Eldar from activating an Avatar? I know that chunks of Khaine wound up on craftworlds, but is there anything to say that the Dark Eldar didn't get a few too?

Craftworlders use a volunteer sacrifice to jumpstart an Avatar, but what if the Dark Eldar used an unwilling subject? I'd love to see a Dark, twisted version of the Avatar.




Oh, and the return of Vect. This, I outright DEMAND.

Dark Avatar used to be brought up as wish listing material before the 5th ed. rework of dark eldar.
I guess the fleshed out background kind of refocused people’s thought’s and wishes. It could be a cool!
(Though DE are pretty scornful of gods, so I’m not sure how well it could fit. Always tweekable in some way, though!)

Regarding Vect, I think it seems like just a matter of time. With regards to how intensely they increased his power and brought him, even more, to the forefront in the last codex (and even gave him a fancy sobriquet to put on the box) I find it hard to believe that there wouldn’t be a plan to bring him back at -some- point

An updated Dais of Destruction kit, with a Vect that could be used with it or on its own (like Logan and his sled), would be cool.

Having said that, I'm not sure a Vect-on-foot-alone option would fit with the idea of Big Faction Leader Models we seem to be seeing recently, so maybe you'd just get an updated Dais.

Passionately hostile to Vect, who I think is an albatross on interesting DE fluff development, but yes, its likely only a matter of time. If GW were half-sensible they'd make it possible to run his inevitable pimpmobile as a plastic Tantalus or something similar (so that's out.)

It would be relatively easy to come up with Avatar-esque creatures. Expand the lore on the dark muses and away you go. In the same way it would be relatively easy to have "evil Wraithguard" (that of course existed in the Path of the Dark Eldar books).