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One third of players are screaming for Codex Supplements for every army. One third of players are screaming for no Codex Supplements at all. The other third shrugs and says, whatever.

So take the supplement or leave it. They are supplemental rules anyway and probably a whole lot less important than those for Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Deathwatch.

I'm sure the supplements in Charadon will be the typical Warlord Traits, Relics, and Stratagems that have appeared in every other Codex Supplement. They will just happen to be 4 pages within a larger book of the war zone and other factions special rules rather than a book dedicated mostly to fluff and additional datasheets for the specific faction.

For $60. Lol.

 harlokin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
How do they "appear to be the basic rules for the main Wych Cult"?

We have a page count. That's all we know at the moment. Did you really expect to see three or four pages worth of Cult of Strife content in the Codex before knowing this supplemental stuff would be coming?

We know its not an 'army of renown', and we don't know how many of those four pages are actually rules.

So, again, how do you know it's stuff cut out of the main book?

You'll 100% have a valid point if, say, Lelith's rules are only in this Charadon stuff...but it's not like Typhus was locked out of the Death Guard book for his stuff in this book.

Agree completely. I wouldn't mind if it were just a reprint of what's in the codex. The difference with Typhus is that, his formation and the AdMech one are specifically listed as special formations, while the Cult of Strife isn't.

You're so close!

While the "Armies of Renown" are listed as special setups, there's also rules for House Raven and Forge World Metalica--just like Cult of Strife. Typhus' forces also are effectively getting the supplement treatment too.


So there's the table of contents.
4 pages for Metalica, Raven, the "Fester Discipline", and Cult of Strife.
We know as well from yesterday that this is a thing for Typhus' forces:

Not only do they get a whole heap of new Relics to choose from and their own Fester discipline of psychic powers, but also a selection of exclusive Stratagems to make use of. There’s far too many to show them all here, but surely a few can’t do any harm.

I don't foresee them pulling a Space Marines and pulling named characters out of the main book for supplemental material. You're looking at bonus relics, stratagems, and maybe some warlord traits/crusade stuff specific to Cult of Strife via this book...which means if you're hugely into Cult of Strife? You might want it. Especially since it seems like it'll explain what Lilith has been up to lately.

Yeah and the rules for the Harbingers are absolutely awful from what we've seen so far hahahahaha

 Kanluwen wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 harlokin wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
How do they "appear to be the basic rules for the main Wych Cult"?

We have a page count. That's all we know at the moment. Did you really expect to see three or four pages worth of Cult of Strife content in the Codex before knowing this supplemental stuff would be coming?

We know its not an 'army of renown', and we don't know how many of those four pages are actually rules.

So, again, how do you know it's stuff cut out of the main book?

You'll 100% have a valid point if, say, Lelith's rules are only in this Charadon stuff...but it's not like Typhus was locked out of the Death Guard book for his stuff in this book.

Agree completely. I wouldn't mind if it were just a reprint of what's in the codex. The difference with Typhus is that, his formation and the AdMech one are specifically listed as special formations, while the Cult of Strife isn't.

You're so close!

While the "Armies of Renown" are listed as special setups, there's also rules for House Raven and Forge World Metalica--just like Cult of Strife. Typhus' forces also are effectively getting the supplement treatment too.

Spoiler:

So there's the table of contents.
4 pages for Metalica, Raven, the "Fester Discipline", and Cult of Strife.
We know as well from yesterday that this is a thing for Typhus' forces:

Not only do they get a whole heap of new Relics to choose from and their own Fester discipline of psychic powers, but also a selection of exclusive Stratagems to make use of. There’s far too many to show them all here, but surely a few can’t do any harm.

I don't foresee them pulling a Space Marines and pulling named characters out of the main book for supplemental material. You're looking at bonus relics, stratagems, and maybe some warlord traits/crusade stuff specific to Cult of Strife via this book...which means if you're hugely into Cult of Strife? You might want it. Especially since it seems like it'll explain what Lilith has been up to lately.

You think non space marines will get character models for their supplaments? Ha...

They called the Metallica, Cult of Strife and House Raven, Supplements.

I assume that means you'll have the basic rules in the codex and bonus rules in the supplement. You can play any marine chapter just with the base codex. You'll have less options.

Of course I seriously doubt this three "supplements" will be like the space marines ones. Specially because it would be extremely difficult for other subfactions in those codex (In this example, other wych cults) to compete with the subfaction with a supplement.

 alextroy wrote:
One third of players are screaming for Codex Supplements for every army. One third of players are screaming for no Codex Supplements at all. The other third shrugs and says, whatever.

So take the supplement or leave it. They are supplemental rules anyway and probably a whole lot less important than those for Space Wolves, Dark Angels, Blood Angels, or Deathwatch.

I'm sure the supplements in Charadon will be the typical Warlord Traits, Relics, and Stratagems that have appeared in every other Codex Supplement. They will just happen to be 4 pages within a larger book of the war zone and other factions special rules rather than a book dedicated mostly to fluff and additional datasheets for the specific faction.

How much "less important"? Seriously, try playing any faction without their PA content against loyalists with their supplements. If this "supplement material" is on most faction's PA materials level, it'll be important.

 alextroy wrote:
So take the supplement or leave it.

Accept your $60 Day-1 DLC that has 4 pages dedicated to your army or shut up.

Great attitude there mate.

Tyel wrote:
I expect the DE codex will be fine in terms of *power*.

The question that haunts people is whether its going to be *fun*.

If DE are getting the "we're trying to cut down special rules this edition mmmk" treatment, its going to be lame. Even if every unit can just be a very cheap brick of stats and therefore top tier/broken.

If anything it feels like GW has been increasing special rules in the last few codices and I kind of expect Drukhari will get similar treatment. It's why I am disappointed there haven't been any more bigger reveals.

However, the review embargo is lifted on Saturday so we'll see some proper leaks.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 alextroy wrote:
So take the supplement or leave it.

Accept your $60 Day-1 DLC that has 4 pages dedicated to your army or shut up.

Great attitude there mate.

What part of "take it or leave it" means "shut up"? You either buy the product because you deem it is worth the cost or you don't. No value judgement attached to your decision except the one you put there.

"We want new minis"

"What's that? You want a codex with like maybe 2 subfactions with broken wombo-combos we never playtested? And to have to buy another, pretty expensive book just for 4 pages if you want to be able to have all of your faction rules available in-hand on release day? You want the formations that ruined the end of 7th ed, but at the start of 9th ed?"

Thanks GW.

Tabletop Titans (and I'm betting my Biden check every other batrep channel on youtube) are debuting the codex on Saturday.

So Saturday we'll get a good picture of them IN A GAME and not just "chicken little the sky is falling theory crafting" on how bad/good they are.

Because of discounts I'll be getting the Piety and Pain box for $125 USD from my LGS. That means the Drukhari are literally FREE so I'm going to pick up codex, pick up the new Drukhari starter box and add even more unpainted minis to my pile of shame.

I'm sure they will be just fine this edition. If not I'm still going to play them. Daemons aren't S tier and I still have fun with them. Daemons aren't even A tier and they still entertain me.

But to each his/her own. The next week or 2 will reveal plenty because we'll actually see batreps and reviews (and full codex leaks if you are into that sort of thing) before the codex actually ships worldwide.

 posermcbogus wrote:
"We want new minis"

"What's that? You want a codex with like maybe 2 subfactions with broken wombo-combos we never playtested? And to have to buy another, pretty expensive book just for 4 pages if you want to be able to have all of your faction rules available in-hand on release day? You want the formations that ruined the end of 7th ed, but at the start of 9th ed?"

Thanks GW.

and worst of all, we dont even get a formation despite being in the book!

 Galas wrote:
They called the Metallica, Cult of Strife and House Raven, Supplements.

I assume that means you'll have the basic rules in the codex and bonus rules in the supplement. You can play any marine chapter just with the base codex. You'll have less options.

Of course I seriously doubt this three "supplements" will be like the space marines ones. Specially because it would be extremely difficult for other subfactions in those codex (In this example, other wych cults) to compete with the subfaction with a supplement.

Yes you can play any marine chapter with just base codex

You will then lose horribly to all but tau...especially any other marine army will break you without breaking a sweat.

There's difference between can and "can"

tneva82 wrote:

 Galas wrote:
They called the Metallica, Cult of Strife and House Raven, Supplements.

I assume that means you'll have the basic rules in the codex and bonus rules in the supplement. You can play any marine chapter just with the base codex. You'll have less options.

Of course I seriously doubt this three "supplements" will be like the space marines ones. Specially because it would be extremely difficult for other subfactions in those codex (In this example, other wych cults) to compete with the subfaction with a supplement.

Yes you can play any marine chapter with just base codex

You will then lose horribly to all but tau...especially any other marine army will break you without breaking a sweat.

There's difference between can and "can"

It's not like Raven Guard or White Scars are any good, right?

I'm going to laugh when the 80% of the rules we haven't seen puts them on equal footing to Sisters or DG or Deathwing or Necrons or Blood Angels.

GW could easily say, rules from this supplement are not suggested for organized play (like they did with Vigilus in 9th) and call it a day.
That way in a normal game you'll find a way to balance them if necessary and the tournament crowd stays away from them.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:
GW could easily say, rules from this supplement are not suggested for organized play (like they did with Vigilus in 9th) and call it a day.
That way in a normal game you'll find a way to balance them if necessary and the tournament crowd stays away from them.

They could, but I doubt it.

The competitive tournament crowd willing to drop $60 for 4 pages of rules that give them an edge is a non-zero part of their sales. No idea what percentage, but businesses do try to sell things to as many people as possible.

If they were just making a book for non-matched play, it would probably be under the Crusade play system.

Matched play doesn't mean "tournament".

You can use legend in matched play, you can't in events.
You have to use another set of mission and objectives during events just "because". Somehow they couldn't be part of matched play and in the rule book (this looks like a bigger offender than "hey you want to play this theme, get this" content).

So no, it doesn't have to be crusade focused.

we'll see the entire codex saturday and know for sure what's in it. No need to parse stats and such from a batrep.

Sotahullu wrote:
Feels like people are just being big time drama queens for sake of it.

Perhaps it would help if I clarified that I meant the increasingly more limited and restrictive house style of sculpting models and supporting them in the rules has killed the joy of the hobby for me. A Primaris character is far harder to convert to look distinctive from all the others of its kind, and since they have far fewer options than their Firstborn counterparts, the same is true for their rules as well.

Easily over 99% of my time in the hobby is spent building and painting minis (I think I managed 2 whole games in the past 4 years) so the lack of attention given to that aspect - such as GW only releasing a single overpriced named-character sculpt alongside a Dark Eldar codex, means it's obvious this is no longer something I would like to spend money on as a pastime.

Assuming it's genuine, Agents of Vect is now a 0CP strat that makes subsequent uses of your opponent's strat cost +1 CP. How the mighty have fallen.

I have a ton more but I think many people will be happy with this. 11 transport capacity raiders boys.

And it looks like dark eldar receive a new general rule. "Artistas del filo" that means something like "Artists of the blade"

dumb_numpty wrote:
Assuming it's genuine, Agents of Vect is now a 0CP strat that makes subsequent uses of your opponent's strat cost +1 CP. How the mighty have fallen.

Spoiler:

Okay, I thought this was bad at first... but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Any enemy that relies on a single crutch strat is just HAMMERED by this. Use on an opposing Transhuman Physiology and just laugh as the Marine Player weaps.

Wow that is bad, I mean it's 0cp, but it's also 1 time use. Well, at least that strat won't dictate entirely how a DE army is built for tournaments anymore lol.

It always felt like a misplay or gamble to not take any Black heart elements solely based on that strat. It also felt crappy using it to turn off other folks fun stuff. Of course GW then went and made auras like Mortys or spells the DA have, so the game still has "piss in your cheeriors" mechanics but at least its one less lol.

Galas my hero, this will be my duolingo for today! Do you have any datasheets with juicy weapon lists like scourges/wracks? Anything to make hqs more fun?

 Yarium wrote:

dumb_numpty wrote:
Assuming it's genuine, Agents of Vect is now a 0CP strat that makes subsequent uses of your opponent's strat cost +1 CP. How the mighty have fallen.

Spoiler:

Okay, I thought this was bad at first... but the more I think about it, the more I like it. Any enemy that relies on a single crutch strat is just HAMMERED by this. Use on an opposing Transhuman Physiology and just laugh as the Marine Player weaps.

It's not going to make them weep really. Transhuman is 1cp in almost any list you see, OK so now it goes to 2cp AFTER they got it once. They also happen to be playing one of the only factions with an army wide 4+ to wound mechanic lol so I really doubt they care much.

....is that phantasm grenade launcher rule "roll 1d6, if you exceed the leadership of target unit deal 1mw"?

Or is it "roll 1d6 for each hit"?

So I just hope that if Raider got upgraded with extra space then same happened with Venom.

 Galas wrote:

Spoiler:

I have a ton more but I think many people will be happy with this. 11 transport capacity raiders boys.

And it looks like dark eldar receive a new general rule. "Artistas del filo" that means something like "Artists of the blade"

11 Capacity, +1 Toughness, S7 melee attacks, useless Phantasm Grenade Launcher and 6++ in melee now


Automatically Appended Next Post:

the_scotsman wrote:
....is that phantasm grenade launcher rule "roll 1d6, if you exceed the leadership of target unit deal 1mw"?

Or is it "roll 1d6 for each hit"?

For each hit but it's completely useless damage wise if you can't reduce enemy's LD by some other methods (and at least -2)