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 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I feel like the self fulfilling prophecy of "marine kits sell, so we should make more, eldar kits don't sell so we shouldn't" really comes into play. Particularly because when they have done new eldar kits the prices have just happened to be particularly painful relative to other releases, affecting sales further. That phoenix box could may have had foolish management thinking 'oh people don't like eldar' while missing or undervaluing the effect of how high priced it was vs what you got.

That's the story of GW since Priestley & co were pushed out and the sales people started running the design studio. Its idiotic, entirely backward looking.

Priestly & co were just as guilty of pushing Space Marines. Track down the 40k Compendium (the yellow one, from 1991) which reprints the WD article where they buffed the heck out of marines (T4 from RT's T3, marine power armor give a +1 to hit in close combat, and the start of special Space Marine Morale rules).

The lead-in text for the article is literally "new rules for their enemies have gradually shifted the balance of power, so that the once mighty Space Marines are now looking a little less heroic. Of course this is hardly appropriate!"

Its always been Space Marines the game. They just didn't clump up the releases so much so it was completely obvious, or revise the SM codex 3 times in ~3 years, or redo the product line at such a transparent cost to everything else.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I feel like the self fulfilling prophecy of "marine kits sell, so we should make more, eldar kits don't sell so we shouldn't" really comes into play. Particularly because when they have done new eldar kits the prices have just happened to be particularly painful relative to other releases, affecting sales further. That phoenix box could may have had foolish management thinking 'oh people don't like eldar' while missing or undervaluing the effect of how high priced it was vs what you got.

It wasn't so much the "value for what you got" part- that part was actually pretty solid. The problem was that there was too much in the box, which drove the price too high despite the value, coupled with the the fact that some of the other model choices in the were sub-optimal at best. Dollar for dollar though, the value was huge- admittedly that's mostly because of the hideously inflated cost of Banshees and Incubi.

In Canadian dollars, I basically got a Falcon, a Vyper, a Venom, 5 Hellions and 5 Scourges for $40. It worked for me because I wanted to start a small CWE force and I had nothing. Most people who hated the box just didn't like the Falcon and the Vyper- and they certainly aren't the best options in the range. But at that level of discount...

I caved in and bought one because I literally could not let myself buy Incubi or Banshees as separates given the price of the individual boxes. Getting five more units, including 3 vehicle kits for an extra $40 was the only thing that made JZ + Banshees and Draz + Incubi worth the outrageous price GW set for the models. Now I'll be able to get an extra 5 Incubi as part of the Combat Patrol Box and I'll have 10, all at a discounted cost.

Karol wrote:

how many new models did the DA get in their release cycle? 1 character . SW got ragnar, a Lt and an upgrade sprue. IF and RG got an upgrade sprue and a special character. BA got a lot stuff, because they got an Lt, Mefisto and upgrade sprue . Comparing to CF or BT those got nothing, not even an upgrade sprue. Meanwhile something like DG got a full reset of model line. Where are the WS outridder bikers or SW primaris TWC , or even mounted and jump pack characters for primaris. It took more then an edition to get just the chaplain on bike. And in the mean time a ton of armies were revamped. Yes eldar were not, because eldar players had such good rules that they were willing to buy their stuff plastic or resin no matter what. It only become a problem now, when the line is old and the rules are bad. But eldar players didn't even have a bad rule set for an entire edition. Maybe the eldar players should wait till they see their codex , they sure told me that. Wait for codex, CA, update CA etc. When after 2 editions eldar are bad, maybe then you will be in the right to say they are being treated bad.

Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

 VladimirHerzog wrote:
Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

Who?

They're a teenager....take that from it what you will.

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's just what 40k is: a game overwhelmingly dominated by a particular faction. If that's a problem, it's probably not the game for you, because it isn't going to change - in fact, it's only gotten progressively worse over the years, not better.

This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

I definitely agree that Space Marines have an unhealthy (for the game, not for GW's bank balance) dominance in the game and the background written for it.

But it's totally possible to play the game and not have it be dominated by space marines. I used to play with a friend regularly, he played Nids and I played Orks. No space marines in sight. Even when I played as a kid, there was only one space marine player in my group - Orks, Eldar, Tyranids and Imperial Guard as well as Chaos and Dark Eldar once 3e hit.

If you play in the "store" environment or if you see the release schedule as a large part of the hobby then yeah, Marines are gonna make up a lot of your hobby time. Or if you like reading books or looking at 40K content online. But just playing with some friends doesn't have to be Marine dominated.

People forget that other factions subsidize space marines; marine players are happier when they have non-marines to play against. All players are happier when they have a diversity of factions to play against, for that matter. The armies don't exist in a vacuum; they affect the sales of other army lines indirectly.

drbored 796396 11078611 wrote:
This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

But it isn't even dominated by marines right now, the top armies are harlis, demons, custodes , SoB , only WS are doing really good out of all the marine factions, but they are not even close to the best armies.

Plus marines are the more diverse build wise and most popular faction. So if their players are having fun, the majority of w40k is having fun.
GW writes the rules in a way that there always are dominant factions, so where are we suppose to go back now to the times in 8th, when playing marines boiled down to taking 15 scounts and 2 characters? Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.


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 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

Karol wrote:

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

ALL marines got : intercessors, reivers, aggressors, inceptors, hellblasters, Supressors, multiple librarians, multiple lieutenants, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, bike chaplain, eliminators, infiltrators, invictor, redemptor dread, repulsor, eradicators, bladeguard vets, outriders.

Every single one of these are new datasheets. Doesnt matter what color of marines you are, you got access to these brand new units.

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

ALL marines got : intercessors, reivers, aggressors, inceptors, hellblasters, Supressors, multiple librarians, multiple lieutenants, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, bike chaplain, eliminators, infiltrators, invictor, redemptor dread, repulsor, eradicators, bladeguard vets, outriders.

Every single one of these are new datasheets. Doesnt matter what color of marines you are, you got access to these brand new units.

You forgot the ATV, three Gladiator tank variants, drop bunker, turret thingy, and Astraeus.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

ALL marines got : intercessors, reivers, aggressors, inceptors, hellblasters, Supressors, multiple librarians, multiple lieutenants, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, bike chaplain, eliminators, infiltrators, invictor, redemptor dread, repulsor, eradicators, bladeguard vets, outriders.

Every single one of these are new datasheets. Doesnt matter what color of marines you are, you got access to these brand new units.

You forgot the ATV, three Gladiator tank variants, drop bunker, turret thingy, and Astraeus.

to be fair, i just copypasted it from another comment earlier lol. I didnt want to actually use my brain to remember what the kits were.

Karol wrote:

drbored 796396 11078611 wrote:
This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

But it isn't even dominated by marines right now, the top armies are harlis, demons, custodes , SoB , only WS are doing really good out of all the marine factions, but they are not even close to the best armies.

Plus marines are the more diverse build wise and most popular faction. So if their players are having fun, the majority of w40k is having fun.
GW writes the rules in a way that there always are dominant factions, so where are we suppose to go back now to the times in 8th, when playing marines boiled down to taking 15 scounts and 2 characters? Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

Karol. I know you are a kid but even you cant pretend you dont understand that "Space Marines" are a "faction".
Juts look at these images.. SM are listed as faction and they have Codex: Space marines. Codexes are for factions.

If you look at the numbers every single space marine sub faction(apart from GK because GW..) has access to most if not all of the generic space marines "things" on their sell page with BA leading the pack with a whopping 126 postions.... 126 Karol.. Are you trying to say of the "generic" 109 Sm things BA listings dont include those 106? Because you would be incorrect..

Now compare it to the Xenos tab:
Even the most upd to date "faction" has less than half of whats on offer to SM. Less than half.

These are not sub faction. These are not "chapters" These are factions existing on their own. And if you wanna say "but eldar are all the same" You would have to include all of the "armies of the imperium" along with SM to make a comparison which would pump the difference into the stratosphere.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:

Karol wrote:

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

ALL marines got : intercessors, reivers, aggressors, inceptors, hellblasters, Supressors, multiple librarians, multiple lieutenants, apothecary, chaplain, techmarine, bike chaplain, eliminators, infiltrators, invictor, redemptor dread, repulsor, eradicators, bladeguard vets, outriders.

Every single one of these are new datasheets. Doesnt matter what color of marines you are, you got access to these brand new units.

You forgot the ATV, three Gladiator tank variants, drop bunker, turret thingy, and Astraeus.

I did that list earlier in this thread when someone (karol?) said that marines 'only' got the Primaris line in 8th edition.
So this is just 8th edition stuff (might not be entirely 100% correct since I just browsed the online store for it).

Karol wrote:

Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.

You are putting words into people's mouths. I am not seeing anyone that is saying that Space Marines should be the underdogs or lose all the time. People are just asking for a diversity in model releases and that all the books are brought up to the same level.

You are being very dishonest in your arguments.

PenitentJake wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
I feel like the self fulfilling prophecy of "marine kits sell, so we should make more, eldar kits don't sell so we shouldn't" really comes into play. Particularly because when they have done new eldar kits the prices have just happened to be particularly painful relative to other releases, affecting sales further. That phoenix box could may have had foolish management thinking 'oh people don't like eldar' while missing or undervaluing the effect of how high priced it was vs what you got.

It wasn't so much the "value for what you got" part- that part was actually pretty solid. The problem was that there was too much in the box, which drove the price too high despite the value, coupled with the the fact that some of the other model choices in the were sub-optimal at best. Dollar for dollar though, the value was huge- admittedly that's mostly because of the hideously inflated cost of Banshees and Incubi.

In Canadian dollars, I basically got a Falcon, a Vyper, a Venom, 5 Hellions and 5 Scourges for $40. It worked for me because I wanted to start a small CWE force and I had nothing. Most people who hated the box just didn't like the Falcon and the Vyper- and they certainly aren't the best options in the range. But at that level of discount...

I caved in and bought one because I literally could not let myself buy Incubi or Banshees as separates given the price of the individual boxes. Getting five more units, including 3 vehicle kits for an extra $40 was the only thing that made JZ + Banshees and Draz + Incubi worth the outrageous price GW set for the models. Now I'll be able to get an extra 5 Incubi as part of the Combat Patrol Box and I'll have 10, all at a discounted cost.

It's only a discount even as an illusion because the prices natively are so crazy high to begin with. Add in to that the models themselves have to be things you'd otherwise want or be lacking otherwise you are buying things you don't want or need which ends up as no discount at all. It's not hard to decipher their motives, they were trying to move some poor moving kits by holding new sculpts hostage with the box and still charge relatively a lot for it. Discount in MSRP considerations doesn't mean much if you can't use, move or want what they are offering. Like for me, I have plenty of incubi just wanted Drazhar and needed none of the other items making it a very poor deal from my perspective. I mean GW put out other poor value box sets but this one was perhaps the most contentious ones I remember.

drbored wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's just what 40k is: a game overwhelmingly dominated by a particular faction. If that's a problem, it's probably not the game for you, because it isn't going to change - in fact, it's only gotten progressively worse over the years, not better.

This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I don't play marines myself, never have, probably never will. But that's the reality, and it's not going to change unless there's a ground-up rejig in the way GW runs its operations. And if that happens, that probably won't be the only change in the game, so who knows if you'd even like the new 40k, even if that particular element was improved?

It doesn't make sense to play a game you don't enjoy in the hopes that it'll get better someday. If you don't find a game where the overwhelming attention is given to Space Marines enjoyable, it probably isn't the game for you.

yukishiro1 wrote:

drbored wrote:

yukishiro1 wrote:
That's just what 40k is: a game overwhelmingly dominated by a particular faction. If that's a problem, it's probably not the game for you, because it isn't going to change - in fact, it's only gotten progressively worse over the years, not better.

This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

I'm not saying it's a good thing. I don't play marines myself, never have, probably never will. But that's the reality, and it's not going to change unless there's a ground-up rejig in the way GW runs its operations. And if that happens, that probably won't be the only change in the game, so who knows if you'd even like the new 40k, even if that particular element was improved?

It doesn't make sense to play a game you don't enjoy in the hopes that it'll get better someday. If you don't find a game where the overwhelming attention is given to Space Marines enjoyable, it probably isn't the game for you.

The issue is that in recent years it has gotten a lot worse then it was before. And I imagine for plenty of people the boiling point has been reached and at the very least they are not buying more stuff until their non-SM army gets updated.

Karol wrote:

drbored 796396 11078611 wrote:
This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

But it isn't even dominated by marines right now, the top armies are harlis, demons, custodes , SoB , only WS are doing really good out of all the marine factions, but they are not even close to the best armies.

Plus marines are the more diverse build wise and most popular faction. So if their players are having fun, the majority of w40k is having fun.
GW writes the rules in a way that there always are dominant factions, so where are we suppose to go back now to the times in 8th, when playing marines boiled down to taking 15 scounts and 2 characters? Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

Funny cause this is actually the opposite, all the other factions are the punching bag to show how marines are the coolest in the block

Ynnari was basically created to ress bobby G, and then dropped with NO new models and they area joke on the table
Eldar still have to buy failcast and jain zar and banshee as much as i like them are no new models, but remakes

I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

 InVerno wrote:

Karol wrote:

drbored 796396 11078611 wrote:
This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

But it isn't even dominated by marines right now, the top armies are harlis, demons, custodes , SoB , only WS are doing really good out of all the marine factions, but they are not even close to the best armies.

Plus marines are the more diverse build wise and most popular faction. So if their players are having fun, the majority of w40k is having fun.
GW writes the rules in a way that there always are dominant factions, so where are we suppose to go back now to the times in 8th, when playing marines boiled down to taking 15 scounts and 2 characters? Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

Exactly!

Its ridiculous.

The crux of the issue is that Space Marines should NOT of gotton a complete plastic range revamp of 40+ models, that they didn't need, before the Eldar got a range revamp to update their range of 20+ year old models!

Also...please. "Most diverse build wise" my ass. I've played against 80% space marines since the stupid 2.0dex demolished my local meta, and space marine lists 99% of the time fall into one of two descriptions:

1) entire or nearly entire army composed of ranged units that start within range of most of the board with optimal firepower. 30" bolters and bolter discipline + 36" or longer range heavy weapons, with the occasional thing like an attack bike that can easily move into optimal range with a single move.

Basically like playing Tau when Tau were the thing people complained about and they could field lists that were basically just riptides. Opponent never moves a model if they don't have to, just sits them there leaving you to wonder what the heck they're getting out of any of this experience, dunno, must be a big fan of tower defense phone games.

2) entire or nearly entire army composed of melee or close range shooting units that appear directly on top of your lines turn 1 via either drop pods, infiltrate, or using some white scars or raven guard or raven wing stratagem from one of the chapters whose thing is 'fast' to move across the entire board and still charge you. Game is over turn 2, usually at least seems like it's decided entirely by the roll off for first turn. Do my slower assault units just get handed a free turn 1 charge against your whole army, or do you get to wipe a third of my stuff off the table before I've moved any models because there's no way to hide anything from the ability to deploy 9" away, still move, shoot and charge? Let's find out in the next thrilling episode of "I hope I have enough time to set up another game after this, let me take a quick peek around the room to see if one of the three other people who don't play marines is here and is playing against a similar list - oh, fantastic, One Other Guy Who Owns Orks is playing vs blood angels, I did play him last week but I'll just give him the ol' eyebrow raise to see if he's sticking around after the turn 2 army wide charge gets resolved."

Other playstyles for marines theoretically exist. Like someone with a railway spike through their brain who miraculously survived might theoretically play some sort of 'armored list' or like a slow, footslogging assault army or something, but why bother, options exist for your whole army to just appear turn 1 in range with no chance for your opponent to respond, what would be the point of playing anything else?

the_scotsman wrote:
Also...please. "Most diverse build wise" my ass. I've played against 80% space marines since the stupid 2.0dex demolished my local meta, and space marine lists 99% of the time fall into one of two descriptions:

1) entire or nearly entire army composed of ranged units that start within range of most of the board with optimal firepower. 30" bolters and bolter discipline + 36" or longer range heavy weapons, with the occasional thing like an attack bike that can easily move into optimal range with a single move.

Basically like playing Tau when Tau were the thing people complained about and they could field lists that were basically just riptides. Opponent never moves a model if they don't have to, just sits them there leaving you to wonder what the heck they're getting out of any of this experience, dunno, must be a big fan of tower defense phone games.

2) entire or nearly entire army composed of melee or close range shooting units that appear directly on top of your lines turn 1 via either drop pods, infiltrate, or using some white scars or raven guard or raven wing stratagem from one of the chapters whose thing is 'fast' to move across the entire board and still charge you. Game is over turn 2, usually at least seems like it's decided entirely by the roll off for first turn. Do my slower assault units just get handed a free turn 1 charge against your whole army, or do you get to wipe a third of my stuff off the table before I've moved any models because there's no way to hide anything from the ability to deploy 9" away, still move, shoot and charge? Let's find out in the next thrilling episode of "I hope I have enough time to set up another game after this, let me take a quick peek around the room to see if one of the three other people who don't play marines is here and is playing against a similar list - oh, fantastic, One Other Guy Who Owns Orks is playing vs blood angels, I did play him last week but I'll just give him the ol' eyebrow raise to see if he's sticking around after the turn 2 army wide charge gets resolved."

Other playstyles for marines theoretically exist. Like someone with a railway spike through their brain who miraculously survived might theoretically play some sort of 'armored list' or like a slow, footslogging assault army or something, but why bother, options exist for your whole army to just appear turn 1 in range with no chance for your opponent to respond, what would be the point of playing anything else?

Yeah, funny thing is, i have both

i have a salamander player that with 72 flamers that auto hits +1 to wound rend -3 totally annihilate anything stupid enought to be on the table, dont even start with eradicators and other units that can bring unholy firepower

And a white scar one, that with bikes he can reach anywhere turn 1 and then fall back and charge again, by turn 2 my eldar are a pulp

i had so much fun these months playing eldar vs SM, the only good units that can actually resist a turn are full buffed wraithaxes, and they hit on 4 lol


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 dan2026 wrote:

 InVerno wrote:

Karol wrote:

drbored 796396 11078611 wrote:
This sort of thing is the issue though. I know I'm simplifying by chopping off most of your post, and I don't want to make it sound like I'm twisting your words, but "If you don't want to play a game dominated by Space Marines, 40k isn't the game for you" is a really crappy situation/take.

Oh well. Frankly, it's true.

But it isn't even dominated by marines right now, the top armies are harlis, demons, custodes , SoB , only WS are doing really good out of all the marine factions, but they are not even close to the best armies.

Plus marines are the more diverse build wise and most popular faction. So if their players are having fun, the majority of w40k is having fun.
GW writes the rules in a way that there always are dominant factions, so where are we suppose to go back now to the times in 8th, when playing marines boiled down to taking 15 scounts and 2 characters? Or are marines and marine players suppose to be beat up faction for everyone. If yes, then how is that okey considering they make up the majority of players.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Some are even 30+ atm, ffs Hawks have rogue trader bits lol

 VladimirHerzog wrote:


Ok now this proves 100% that Karol is nothing but a troll. It's impossible for someone to be sooooo disconnected from reality

What part was disconected? Did any of the marine armies got more models for their factions when their codex books came out?

I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

Exactly!

Its ridiculous.

The crux of the issue is that Space Marines should NOT of gotton a complete plastic range revamp of 40+ models, that they didn't need, before the Eldar got a range revamp to update their range of 20+ year old models!

Some are even 30+ atm, ffs Hawks have rogue trader bits lol

 Argive wrote:
Now compare it to the Xenos tab:
Even the most upd to date "faction" has less than half of whats on offer to SM. Less than half.

These are not sub faction. These are not "chapters" These are factions existing on their own. And if you wanna say "but eldar are all the same" You would have to include all of the "armies of the imperium" along with SM to make a comparison which would pump the difference into the stratosphere.

Wait they include Ynnari there? Even though... Ynari are just Dark Eldar + Craftworlds? Why separate them if they are just an additional soup faction? They have no original units?

 Asherian Command wrote:
Wait they include Ynnari there? Even though... Ynari are just Dark Eldar + Craftworlds? Why separate them if they are just an additional soup faction? They have no original units?

They have 3 original "units" in the "Triumvirate of Ynnead".
It's akin to how some DA have 121 entries but only a few are DA only. They just bunch everything the faction as access to for "convenience".

 InVerno wrote:
Some are even 30+ atm, ffs Hawks have rogue trader bits lol

If you're going to whine, at least whine factually - nothing in the Swooping Hawk unit currently for sale is a RT element. Well, the bases might count, but that's beyond a stretch.

Baharroth and the rest of the Phoenix Lords (aside from Jain Zar) are early 2nd edition, I believe, but the Hawks were redone in either 3rd or 4th edition. They seem to show up in 2004 catalogues, at least.

Original Swooping Hawks - current Swooping Hawks

Edit - Copied link was a bit funky.

 Asherian Command wrote:


Wait they include Ynnari there? Even though... Ynari are just Dark Eldar + Craftworlds? Why separate them if they are just an additional soup faction? They have no original units?

Other than Yvraine, the Yncarne and the Visarch, Ynarri have no bespoke models.

Expanding the Ynarri is one of the ways to introduce new Aeldari content without risking the alienation of those who play any existing Aeldari factions. Want to introduce a brand new Aspect, but you're afraid the CWE fan base will rage-quit with cries of "PRIMARIS ELFS!" on their lips and in every online post for MONTHS? Well, introduce them as Ynarri.

Want to try Exodites to cater to the nostalgia types, but afraid it won't sell enough to pay for the molds? Release them as Ynarri to more easily integrate them to an existing range.

Ynarri are also the perfect excuse to bring back the Emperor's Children and even Fulgrim; that's an edition reset/ outro campaign event- Ynarri almost succeed in destroying Slaanesh, but fail due to the intervention of Fulgrim/ EC. Nobody would be able to say that Ynarri went nowhere ever again, because like the Aeldari race as a whole brought Slaanesh into the world, the Ynarri would have brought Fulgrim back.

 InVerno wrote:
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I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

God help your overly sensitive soul should you ever play Chess....

ccs wrote:

 InVerno wrote:
[
I just want my faction to be treated equally ffs, do you know how embarassing is to bring models with sculps older than me? while the SM player fields theyr shining new plastic models they got this year?

God help your overly sensitive soul should you ever play Chess....

Yeah Chess Workshop has only brought out new sculpts for white for years, like come on, how many white bishop sculpts do we need ffs???