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2021/03/24 07:13:38
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
dan2026 wrote: One day Eldar will get their time to shine.
I still think they're cool, even if they are forgotten and unloved.
Would be a bit sad and embarrassing if after this animation comes out new people go looking for Eldar models though...
Spoiler:
IKR.
I can't believe they have an avatar killing a dreadnought - kind of expecting it to be taken down by a scout in the next frame....
An Avatar should slice through a Dreadnought like paper, same as a Bloodthirster would.
What will be jarring when this animation comes out is that this is clearly the Forgeworld Avatar, but when people will go to the GW website they will just see the old and smallavatar.
2021/03/24 07:25:50
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
7 Ork facts people always get wrong: Ragnar did not win against Thrakka, but suffered two crushing defeats within a few days of each other. A lasgun is powerful enough to sever an ork's appendage or head in a single, well aimed shot. Orks meks have a better understanding of electrics and mechanics than most Tech Priests. Orks do not think that purple makes them harder to see. They do think that camouflage does however, without knowing why. Gharkull Blackfang did not even come close to killing the emperor. Orks can be corrupted by chaos, but few of them have any interest in what chaos offers. Orks do not have the power of believe.
2021/03/24 09:18:57
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Ordana wrote: But that doesn't make it any less of a colossal failure on GW's part.
We, the customer, don't care what their excuse is. We care that they are failing to support a faction.
I'm currently working on the theory that every time there's a post here whining about how long it is taking to get an Eldar range refresh out into the world, the launch date moves back either a month or a year.
If the latter, then since Christmas alone they've been pushed back to the year 3,000.
Might be similar for the IG, unfortunately, but despite getting less releases than Eldar since the beginning of 7th edition - and losing more models over the same period - for some reason there are fewer complaints.
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2021/03/24 10:23:23
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Ordana wrote: But that doesn't make it any less of a colossal failure on GW's part.
We, the customer, don't care what their excuse is. We care that they are failing to support a faction.
I'm currently working on the theory that every time there's a post here whining about how long it is taking to get an Eldar range refresh out into the world, the launch date moves back either a month or a year.
If the latter, then since Christmas alone they've been pushed back to the year 3,000.
Might be similar for the IG, unfortunately, but despite getting less releases than Eldar since the beginning of 7th edition - and losing more models over the same period - for some reason there are fewer complaints.
Guard have plenty of reasons to complain aswell for sure. They haven't gotten anything except a few Sly Marbo models in years but atleast their line is (almost ) entirely in plastic and not finecast.
2021/03/24 11:27:35
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
I think maybe it’s because although a lot of Guard plastic models are old as hell, they are still plastic and can be converted easily using a lot of GWs other newer plastic human models.
Necromunda, Blackstone Fortress etc.
So while their range is old, it still feels like you have options.
Kinda.
None of this is true for the Eldar.
I also have this strong feeling we might be getting a Catachans vs Tyranids ‘40K does Predator’ box set coming.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 11:31:16
2021/03/24 12:17:52
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
dan2026 wrote: I think maybe it’s because although a lot of Guard plastic models are old as hell, they are still plastic and can be converted easily using a lot of GWs other newer plastic human models.
Necromunda, Blackstone Fortress etc.
So while their range is old, it still feels like you have options.
Kinda.
None of this is true for the Eldar.
I also have this strong feeling we might be getting a Catachans vs Tyranids ‘40K does Predator’ box set coming.
dan2026 wrote: I think maybe it’s because although a lot of Guard plastic models are old as hell, they are still plastic and can be converted easily using a lot of GWs other newer plastic human models.
Necromunda, Blackstone Fortress etc.
So while their range is old, it still feels like you have options.
Kinda.
None of this is true for the Eldar.
I also have this strong feeling we might be getting a Catachans vs Tyranids ‘40K does Predator’ box set coming.
Catachan vs tryanid duel box would be very cool.
Imagine a catachan devil being in that box... Take my money now!
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Jidmah wrote:At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
Indeed. Unless someone already has the Forgeworld one, even current possessors of the original would be induced to purchase the new one. It would also be a good leader in updating the Aspects as well. Unfortunately, unless they are already in development, we'll probably not see any Craftworld models any time soon.
Argive wrote:Imagine a catachan devil being in that box... Take my money now!
While it may not get mine, I can't argue how quickly it would sell.
Are you a Wolf, a Sheep, or a Hound?
Megavolt wrote:They called me crazy…they called me insane…THEY CALLED ME LOONEY!! and boy, were they right.
2021/03/24 20:18:54
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
The problem is if they start putting effort into CWE they distract from the designated protagonist status of Astartes.
2021/03/24 20:58:32
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 20:59:03
Efficiency is the highest virtue.
2021/03/24 21:07:27
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
They might be holding off on Eldar because they were so reviled in 7th. And maybe they WERE going to "reimagine" them with Ynnari and that process got halted. Otherwise, Eldar got a number of kits for 6th-7th.
I definitely subscribe to the theory 8th was originally thought out as far more of a model reset than it ended up. Between the Ynnari buildup at the end of 7th and the early lore and timejump around the Primaris (especially having now rolled it back)
I think the backlash to the AoS move stayed their hand leading to the supremely bloated Astartes faction and the continued lack of anything of significance for Eldar
BlaxicanX wrote: A young business man named Tom Kirby, who was a pupil of mine until he turned greedy, helped the capitalists hunt down and destroy the wargamers. He betrayed and murdered Games Workshop.
2021/03/24 21:15:48
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
I wouldn't wish the Ynnari treatment on my worst enemies.
And Guard players are generally pretty happy because the models don't look as lumpy. Yeah they're old, but they're not 'this is obviously a single piece of pewter' old.
2021/03/24 21:18:35
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
They might be holding off on Eldar because they were so reviled in 7th. And maybe they WERE going to "reimagine" them with Ynnari and that process got halted. Otherwise, Eldar got a number of kits for 6th-7th.
A very small number really. And getting less each edition.
In 7th they got 4 kits/models. In 8th they got 3. In 9th well...we live in hope!
You don't want to know how many different kits/models Space Marines got between 6th edition and 9th edtion.
I'll give a hint. Its more than 60....
Edit : feth man I got depressed just writing that.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 21:19:44
2021/03/24 21:32:04
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
They might be holding off on Eldar because they were so reviled in 7th. And maybe they WERE going to "reimagine" them with Ynnari and that process got halted. Otherwise, Eldar got a number of kits for 6th-7th.
A very small number really. And getting less each edition.
In 7th they got 4 kits/models. In 8th they got 3. In 9th well...we live in hope!
You don't want to know how many different kits/models Space Marines got between 6th edition and 9th edtion.
I'll give a hint. Its more than 60....
Edit : feth man I got depressed just writing that.
I don't think equating the two is worth much tbh. And when we're talking "Space Marines" in this case, we're really talking Primaris, which is basically a relaunch of the flagship faction. Unfortunately it's apples and oranges comparing that to Eldar. And yes the fatigue is real. GW has gone whole hog down that route and yes it's depressing.
But I think when comparing to other factions the Eldar situation doesn't look too bad if we consider that Eldar might involve an aborted Ynnari plan. And if it IS the case that the state of Eldar is partially due to a cancelled Ynnari-Aeldari transformation, then I'm all the more happy for it, personally. I think Eldar are ripe for a release of plastic Aspects, etc. and those coming late is better than never getting them because of some Ynnari-Eldar-Rebirth garbage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: I wouldn't wish the Ynnari treatment on my worst enemies.
And Guard players are generally pretty happy because the models don't look as lumpy. Yeah they're old, but they're not 'this is obviously a single piece of pewter' old.
Some of those single pieces of pewter still look better than a number of plastic models.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/03/24 21:33:54
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
They might be holding off on Eldar because they were so reviled in 7th. And maybe they WERE going to "reimagine" them with Ynnari and that process got halted. Otherwise, Eldar got a number of kits for 6th-7th.
A very small number really. And getting less each edition.
In 7th they got 4 kits/models. In 8th they got 3. In 9th well...we live in hope!
You don't want to know how many different kits/models Space Marines got between 6th edition and 9th edtion.
I'll give a hint. Its more than 60....
Edit : feth man I got depressed just writing that.
I don't think equating the two is worth much tbh. And when we're talking "Space Marines" in this case, we're really talking Primaris, which is basically a relaunch of the flagship faction. Unfortunately it's apples and oranges comparing that to Eldar. And yes the fatigue is real. GW has gone whole hog down that route and yes it's depressing.
But I think when comparing to other factions the Eldar situation doesn't look too bad if we consider that Eldar might involve an aborted Ynnari plan. And if it IS the case that the state of Eldar is partially due to a cancelled Ynnari-Aeldari transformation, then I'm all the more happy for it, personally. I think Eldar are ripe for a release of plastic Aspects, etc. and those coming late is better than never getting them because of some Ynnari-Eldar-Rebirth garbage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: I wouldn't wish the Ynnari treatment on my worst enemies.
And Guard players are generally pretty happy because the models don't look as lumpy. Yeah they're old, but they're not 'this is obviously a single piece of pewter' old.
Some of those single pieces of pewter still look better than a number of plastic models.
6th was before Primaris to be fair and Space Marines still got 12 kits in that ed including new Tactical Marines and Devastators.
The Eldar Guardian Squad came out in 1999 in 3rd edition. And have never been updated.
And you can tell.
Ah well, I feel I'm shouting into the void. Everyone and their dog buy enough Space Marines for them to keep churning them out forever.
2021/03/24 21:59:16
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Ordana wrote: But that doesn't make it any less of a colossal failure on GW's part.
We, the customer, don't care what their excuse is. We care that they are failing to support a faction.
I'm currently working on the theory that every time there's a post here whining about how long it is taking to get an Eldar range refresh out into the world, the launch date moves back either a month or a year.
If the latter, then since Christmas alone they've been pushed back to the year 3,000.
Might be similar for the IG, unfortunately, but despite getting less releases than Eldar since the beginning of 7th edition - and losing more models over the same period - for some reason there are fewer complaints.
It is a 24 hour timer, which resets every time someone mentions the issue. That is how it worked for Squats until they accidentally broke the clock and had to make a Squat miniature. This is cannon: https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=Oc0-8BBkkq4&t=0s
I think it's fair to say that SOMETHING is going on at some level with Eldar; there was an interview (a Voxcast?) with Jes where he basically said he was asked for two kits to release alongside the wraithknight and the aeroplane. He chose the bikes and the wraithguard, but I don't recall that he expanded much on what didn't make the cut. However, you can only make a decision about something you're actually working on even if only as a concept, right? Now whether they ever move on from there... In my more optimistic moments I like to think that the Banshees were a "we haven't forgotten you guys" message, but equally I agree that there was clearly something lined up with Ynnari that didn't pan out. In some ways it's a shame, the extra creative freedom they're feeling with AoS is producing some fantastic stuff.
2021/03/24 22:46:23
Subject: Re:Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
If anyone needs new models it is the Eldar Range, I remember a friend of mine looking into starting them and deciding against it because he saw how old parts were and was simply discouraged by how unsupported the range turned out to be, along with how old the kits were and just dropped the project a few months in.
I play Orks and Tyranids primarily and well I'd rather Eldar get support than me getting some new squigs (which I am happy to accept, always love seeing non space marine releases) but Eldar could seriously use updated Guardians and better rules across the board for their models that currently exist.
I know that Space marine releases are pretty much a money printing button for GW but come on...
2021/03/24 22:54:38
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
Jidmah wrote: At this point, reinventing the avatar as a center-piece model akin to Thrakka, Gulliman, Abaddon or the recently revealed Be'lakor seems like a no-brainer way to print money.
You'd think so. But its been how many years since the reimagined bloodthirster? The plastic c'tan buried away inside the obelisk box? The wood elf treeman? Nagash? The mountain cow? (yeah, ok, that one is recent)
Something just gums up the works for eldar, and it doesn't stop them from doing similar models for other factions.
They might be holding off on Eldar because they were so reviled in 7th. And maybe they WERE going to "reimagine" them with Ynnari and that process got halted. Otherwise, Eldar got a number of kits for 6th-7th.
A very small number really. And getting less each edition.
In 7th they got 4 kits/models. In 8th they got 3. In 9th well...we live in hope!
You don't want to know how many different kits/models Space Marines got between 6th edition and 9th edtion.
I'll give a hint. Its more than 60....
Edit : feth man I got depressed just writing that.
I don't think equating the two is worth much tbh. And when we're talking "Space Marines" in this case, we're really talking Primaris, which is basically a relaunch of the flagship faction. Unfortunately it's apples and oranges comparing that to Eldar. And yes the fatigue is real. GW has gone whole hog down that route and yes it's depressing.
But I think when comparing to other factions the Eldar situation doesn't look too bad if we consider that Eldar might involve an aborted Ynnari plan. And if it IS the case that the state of Eldar is partially due to a cancelled Ynnari-Aeldari transformation, then I'm all the more happy for it, personally. I think Eldar are ripe for a release of plastic Aspects, etc. and those coming late is better than never getting them because of some Ynnari-Eldar-Rebirth garbage.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
drbored wrote: I wouldn't wish the Ynnari treatment on my worst enemies.
And Guard players are generally pretty happy because the models don't look as lumpy. Yeah they're old, but they're not 'this is obviously a single piece of pewter' old.
Some of those single pieces of pewter still look better than a number of plastic models.
6th was before Primaris to be fair and Space Marines still got 12 kits in that ed including new Tactical Marines and Devastators.
The Eldar Guardian Squad came out in 1999 in 3rd edition. And have never been updated.
And you can tell.
Ah well, I feel I'm shouting into the void. Everyone and their dog buy enough Space Marines for them to keep churning them out forever.
I honestly don't remember the new kits for SM other than the Tacticals and Devastators. The Wraithknight and Jetbikes were pretty major releases for Eldar. What else did they get in that era, the flyer/s? When did the Wraithguard dual kit come out?
I'm pretty sure the 7th ed releases for Eldar covered the following:
- New Jetbikes
- Warlock/Farseer on Jetbike
- Wraithknight
- Wraithguard/blades
- Crimson Hunter & Hemlock
- I think the Death Masque box with plastic Eldrad was in 7th as well, though I can't recall when he got a solo release
When was the solo plastic Farseer released again?
8th saw plastic Spiritseer, Jain Zar and Banshees - there's also the Webway Gate terrain piece, but I thought that was a Harli release, not a Craftworlds one. It also shows under the DE on the webstore - is it included in their new book?
Gamgee on Tau Players wrote:we all kill cats and sell our own families to the devil and eat live puppies.
Kanluwen wrote: This is, emphatically, why I will continue suggesting nuking Guard and starting over again. It's a legacy army that needs to be rebooted with a new focal point.
Confirmation of why no-one should listen to Kanluwen when it comes to the IG - he doesn't want the IG, he want's Kan's New Model Army...
tneva82 wrote: You aren't even trying ty pretend for honest arqument. Open bad faith trolling.
- No reason to keep this here, unless people want to use it for something...
2021/03/25 08:58:01
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
I don't think equating the two is worth much tbh. And when we're talking "Space Marines" in this case, we're really talking Primaris, which is basically a relaunch of the flagship faction. Unfortunately it's apples and oranges comparing that to Eldar. And yes the fatigue is real. GW has gone whole hog down that route and yes it's depressing.
A proper relaunch would have sunset some of the older Space Marine units, but instead the Primaris launch just made the Space Marine faction unwieldy.
2021/03/25 10:32:33
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
I think a good codex and good plastic models go hand in hand. I got some CSM which are in boxes unopened which I am taking my time to do simply because I am assembling and painting other armies right now. And its mainly because the CSM codex is a mess in terms of rules and badly needs a proper 9th edition codex. I have been playing CSM for years and always had issues with their rules. It just seems like GW doesn't know what to do with CSM.
Its a pity because some of the new models are gorgeous. I bought 3 predators, a Vindicator and a LR, they are all on the shelf. I have a forgefiend and 3 hellbrutes, have hardly used them much for years, I do love my 2 venomcrawlers and 2 Lord Discordants, though they die easily. Same for my centerpiece Lord of skulls which in most games get blown up and lose me the game too. So, I have already bought tons of CSM stuff, both old and new models (I love my new Abaddon model Noctilith Crown), and I have been playing CSM for years, I just need them to finally come up with a CSM codex that isn't a mess or require me to soup in daemons, or primarchs just to have a decent game.
2021/03/25 17:29:52
Subject: Losing Interest in 40k, thanks to Space Marines
GW has ruined Space Marines for me. To me the most iconic pieces of Space Marines art are the one's where their martyrdom is presented like 1st edition cover and The Last Stand by Kev Walker.