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Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)

Iracundus wrote:
What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

How about T4 W1 FNP if they really supposed to be 'tough'? Orks ignoring bolters but still being vulnerable to lasguns is kinda dumb.

tneva82 wrote:
Currently wiping units each turn is snap of a finger

That's not the problem with ork statline, that's problem caused by insanely dumb damage inflation*. GW is fixing wrong thing.

*gee, yet another proof stupid W2 buff to appease a handful of squatwhiners was bad for game? Who could have guessed?

cerealkiller195 wrote:
the beast snaggas are cool and all but after seeing the AoS dominion orcs... can we get some of those?! Also making some models cheaper never hurt anyone =3

Boyz will stay 8. Snaggas will be 10. That's my guess.


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 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)

Hyperbole thy name is an opinion on Dakka.

The correct way to represent an Ork's resilience would be a Feel No Pain save.

But, that would add more dice rolling to a game that already has far too much dice rolling, so T5 will do.

T5 could suit some units like Meganobz (or even all Nobz-based profiles, like Weirdboyz) but seems too much for regular Boyz. A FNP roll would have been more aki to the lore of orks ignoring wounds not because they are not physically damaged, but just because... they feel almost no pain.

How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.

I feel like T5 is a very handy change for a horde army. Orks needed something, FNP or +1wound would have been fiddly, 6++ wouldn't be useful really (and hey, some of them got that, too ).
"orkstodes", really? Forgive me but I must have overlooked the 3 wounds or the 2+ save...
With all the firepower and abundance of AP Orks will rarely use their saves, at least give them something.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.

Apart from the fact that all Orks will get the T increase, as shown and written on the community article. You don't have to buy a single new model. But keep on hatin'

 Oguhmek wrote:
Hmm, I'm a cautiously optimistic.

It will come down to the points in the end I suppose.

S5 Choppas on the Snaggas has potential though, wounding space marines on a 3+ is nice.

Points are easily changed, datasheets stick around till the next codex... and that datasheet looks rather nice.

Ah, my DG feel less special now. :(
Anyway, will be interesting to see what T5 horde looks and plays like on the table. At least it will be something different to the "T3 but with a decent save" that was becoming the norm.

Voss wrote:
The +1 to hit seems odd to me. I was expecting the snaggas to get +1 to wound against big stuff, it seems far more thematic and useful.

+1 to wound on 20 boyz with 60 attacks sounds a bit too powerful to me.

I like how Beast Snaggaz have lots of bionics and are used to hunting big beasts... so naturally they're excellent at anti-tank operations.

Maybe I'm wrong though. Maybe the skills are transferable, and the ability to wrangle big Squigs is exactly the same as pinpointing the weaknesses on Land Raiders and Falcon Grav Tanks.

 Uriels_Flame wrote:
How is an ork T than a marine armor now?

Ork magic.

Seems arbitrary and cash grab for shiny new models.

T is not reflected as much in the armour.....that would be an "armour" save.
T5 is weird, and a FNP would make more sense, but again.....to save time in a game, I'm OK with it.

I do agree that improving them vs bolters while still being hurt the same by lasguns is a weird choice.

 bullyboy wrote:
I do agree that improving them vs bolters while still being hurt the same by lasguns is a weird choice.

Well that's the problem with the To Wound table in 8th/9th. It squishes everything towards the middle.

Iracundus wrote:

 JoeRugby wrote:
Not feeling it (the t5 boys) seems too much, I wouldn't say they as tough as death guard In the lore as tough as a marine out of armour sure. But 5 is too much.

What would you rather have had it as? T4 W2?

For me I think the suspension of disbelief is more about the invulnerable save and how much skin is showing. Scars or no scars, a lascannon should be lethal.

There are actually multiple fluff pieces (and IIRC even a picture in a codex somewhere?) showing how an ork missing half his torso and an arm from a lascannon shot managed to stumble back to the doc and get fixed up again.


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 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

I wouldn't call a custodes a mentally challenged fungus, but they really don't get out a lot. But yeah, orks were the absolute masterpiece of the old ones, unlike the other creation which fethed up so hard they gave birth to a chaos god.

 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Anyway, if Harlies and DE are any indication, let's welcome third completely broken xeno army beating SM by default, especially after CA point nerfs to last crutches SM used to stay competitive (cue people without a clue still claiming SM are the most OP faction ever)

This is a pretty funny post. But in case you're anything close to serious, Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones. Big E's got nothing on that!

T5 orks is an interesting sign that the numbers will just creep for 40K. But maybe it's good to creep in different ways for different factions?

 Irbis wrote:
Oh boy, orkz are orkstodes now. What would win, the handcrafted creation of most powerful being in setting with millennia of experience (or 10000 year old DG terminator lord buffed to highest levels by Nurgle) or two week old mentally challenged fungus? The answer might shock you

Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k. Orks? Check. Eldar? Check again. Humans and Tyranids? Those are maybes. I think the Old Ones might have a little bit more skill in the whole "engineering living super weapons" thing than the Corpse Emperor. At least they could control theirs while they were around.

Those of us who are really old will remember that Orks had a higher Toughness than Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era.

And before anyone asks, no that didn't change when SM fluff evolved to make them genetically engineered supersoldiers rather than brainwashed criminals. SM didn't get to be as tough as Orks until 2nd edition.

Meh, whatever gets 'em downfield, right boyz?

 Duskweaver wrote:
Those of us who are really old will remember that Orks had a higher Toughness than Space Marines back in the Rogue Trader era.

And before anyone asks, no that didn't change when SM fluff evolved to make them genetically engineered supersoldiers rather than brainwashed criminals. SM didn't get to be as tough as Orks until 2nd edition.

Oooh, not quite! I think it was the Compendium upped them to T4 originally. Would need to check me books, but it defo happened in 1st.

Orks seem to be doing alright at the moment in terms of stat boosts. S4 was much needed. Just looking at the models, they didn’t suggest being the same rough strength as a weedy ‘Oomie. And the T5, from this thread, seems fairly well received.

Proof will be in the pudding of course. It could be that Marines getting an extra wound, and everyone seemingly getting more shots it’ll average out against da ladz. But that isn’t for me to judge.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
The correct way to represent an Ork's resilience would be a Feel No Pain save.

But, that would add more dice rolling to a game that already has far too much dice rolling, so T5 will do.

Agreed.

Not the first to say it, but I am really liking that they are finally starting to change up the defence style of armies.

Before it was a case that high rate of fire weapons always was best.

Now we should have armies with lots of 1w high T models and low save, armies with lots of 2 wound models and high saves, armies with high T and damage reduction, armies with low toughness and inv saves etc etc.

This has been long overdue coming in my opinion to make it so that armies can't just spam certain weapons for all comers.

I was pretty confident the Beast Snaggas would be T5. I am a bit surprised Ork Boyz also became T5.

I'm very interested to see how this Codex fares. I've enjoyed the 9th edition codexes so far.

All I care about is my orks lasting long enough to finally kill my friend's tau in melee.

I am all for it! I like some diversity in basic profiles between the races and factions. It means that to take an all comers army, you need weapon diversity as well.

Spam too many S4 weapons, then you face an Orc or DG army and all your S4 weapons wound on 5+. Spam High AP weapon to handle power armor and terminators, and these are suddenly worthless against Orcs which have paper armour or a 6+ save anyway. And all the damage 2 weapons which are so good against primaris and space marines are now wasted against Orcs and Eldar.

Some weapons, like those Tesla destructor of Necrons suddenly become a lot more interesting because they have a high number of str 6 shots with zero AP, perfect against T5 orcs with paper thin armor anyway.

Gadzilla666 wrote:Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k.

Da Boss wrote:Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones.

Orks (and Gretchin) were created by intelligent Snotlings also known as Brainboys. What you guys are talking about?

 Dryaktylus wrote:

Gadzilla666 wrote:Except that, Orks are the creation of the beings that literally engineered several of the predominant species in 40k.

Da Boss wrote:Orks are the bioengineered warrior race of the Old Ones.

Orks (and Gretchin) were created by intelligent Snotlings also known as Brainboys. What you guys are talking about?

Snotlings are The Old Ones.

Isn’t it obvious?

Ah yes; bioengineered warrior race. T5 jokaero when?

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Ah yes; bioengineered warrior race. T5 jokaero when?

Sometime after they become a warrior race rather than nomads that avoid combat where possible, maybe?

Space Marines are still durable because they are 2W compared to the Orc's 1W. Its just represented in a different way! Like maybe Orcs have bigger muscles and tough skin, so they are T5, while space marines have 2 hearts, so they have 2W.

Meanwhile, Tyranid Warriors are T4 W3...