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I do appreciate the fact that for the first time in history GW will release a separate plastic kit for a generic ork warboss though.

So far we still only have had the metal one from 3rd edition, a plastic one which was only included in the AOBR starter and never released separately, and the one that is about to be separately relesed which is currently available only by getting nobz along with it.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If the old Ork kit was so popular I would expect it to be sold out at GW or at the very least discounters, but it still seems to be in stock at most places. So people who still want the old one can still stock up for now.

According to GW themselves, the tactical marines box is the best selling box ever, and it has never sold out. So your logic kind of doesn't apply.
And yes, ork boyz have been sold out regularly when green tides were the top competitive choice for them.

Do we even know if they're stopping sales of the old Boyz? The old Boyz are still available from every region GW store. Given the new box doesn't even make a proper squad, I wonder if they intend to keep the old ones around.

According to store managers, the new kit will be replacing the old one completely once it is released (it isn't yet).

Spoiler:

 Jidmah wrote:
I'm really tempted to go back to that thread and dig up the names of all posters which told me how awesome new boyz were going to be...

Eh, if you're talking about my comments, I only ever said the old Orks are crap and there was a possibility that new Orks could be better based on other kits GW has done in recent times, not that I was divining the future that Neworks would definitely be a godsend. GW have proved they can do better kits than this, they literally just released some kits that are better than this, why they decided not to put any effort into the core of the Ork army *shrugs*, I dunno.

If they'd made the Neworks to the same level as the Kommandos, but just replacing the back packs with some extra options on the sprue, that would have been a great outcome IMO, but I know some people don't even like the Kommandos.

The only thing I can think is GW don't think Orks are popular and so didn't think it was worth putting in the same effort to the core kit, but it's weird they WOULD put that effort into the Kommandos.

If you want a pat on the back because you guessed that the Nework kit would be crap, umm, okay, have a cookie.

Except I provides tons of examples of kits that were exactly like the new boyz are, I even "guessed" the price correctly. And believe me, I'm not happy about being right.
There is a difference between making educated guesses based on facts and unfounded dreaming.

As for the kommadoz kit - yes, they do make kits like that, but the also charge a ton for them. It's a fairly safe "guess" to assume that they will be clocking in at $60 per box, not something you can do for a kit that is supposed to go into combat patrol boxes and that new players have to buy multiples of to start.

Sometimes you just have to be content with what you have, otherwise you get your freely posable multi-part plastic kit that comes with all options and is interchangeable with every other ork kit replaced with one that costs more and is none of that. But yay, new scupts!

Yes the new Boyz kit are a disgrace, not even good for beginners because you can't even build a proper mob out of it. Honestly I don't understand what they were thinking.

Nice to finally have proper Warboss kits though, I've used my old Grukk plenty of times, but I never had a MA one - it is going to be fun to paint I think.

It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.

 Jidmah wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
If the old Ork kit was so popular I would expect it to be sold out at GW or at the very least discounters, but it still seems to be in stock at most places. So people who still want the old one can still stock up for now.

According to GW themselves, the tactical marines box is the best selling box ever, and it has never sold out. So your logic kind of doesn't apply.
And yes, ork boyz have been sold out regularly when green tides were the top competitive choice for them.

Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.

Like back when WHFB was killed and people started realising the models would be going, they disappeared very fast from online discounters and also the GW store.

So either the Boyz aren't super popular, or GW have a huge backlog and thus haven't sold out even though lots of people are buying them.

According to store managers, the new kit will be replacing the old one completely once it is released (it isn't yet).

Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.

As for the kommadoz kit - yes, they do make kits like that, but the also charge a ton for them. It's a fairly safe "guess" to assume that they will be clocking in at $60 per box, not something you can do for a kit that is supposed to go into combat patrol boxes and that new players have to buy multiples of to start.

I used Kommandos as an example because they're also 40k Orks, but even over on AoS there's Gutrippaz which are 10 monopose models but where the heads and weapons are at least interchangeable and the kit gives enough parts to give them either spears or hand weapons. Similar options on the Boyz kit would be a big upgrade.

Sometimes you just have to be content with what you have...

As I said, I didn't like the old Boyz kit so I don't really count this as a loss. I collected Orks back in the early 00's when that kit first came out, it was great for the time, but I can't really say I'm sad to see it go after all these years. My condolences if you needed the old kit to hang round longer to fill out your existing armies.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.

They removed possibility of mixed squads in new codex?

 Flinty wrote:
It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.

Except the new Boyz are designed in such a way, that makes printing conversion parts extremly difficult, since each will have to be made to precisely fit one specific body, instead of having one generic bit be compatible with every single Boy body, like with the old ones, thus both reducing the usefulness of 3D printed parts, and making them much more difficult to design.

No doubt, be design.

 Flinty wrote:
It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.

At this point, I expect 3rd parties will just continue making whole models.

Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.

 Da Boss wrote:
Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.

Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.

Will people actually do that though? A full unit of 30 shootas with only 3 individual sculpts in it? I kinda hope it falls flat.

 Da Boss wrote:
Will people actually do that though? A full unit of 30 shootas with only 3 individual sculpts in it? I kinda hope it falls flat.

I for one will continue my plans of making more colonial marinorks, personally.

 Da Boss wrote:
Will people actually do that though? A full unit of 30 shootas with only 3 individual sculpts in it? I kinda hope it falls flat.

Probably not, but someone at GW is sure salivating over the concept of a player having to buy 10 boxes of Boyz (450$) for a single 30-boy Shoota mob.

Yeah, it is not great. If this was marines, this would just be the easybuild variant and there would be a separate full kit. But they apparently don't want to invest such resources to orks. But given that, they definitely should have designed this kit differently. At absolute minimum, it should allow building five of either choppa or shoota boyz, so that you would at least get two sensibleish squads with two kits. Though ideally there should be enough arms to build ten of either with one kit as that would allow more variety without converting.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
It does seem like an odd design decision to only enable part-squad load outs. I foresee 3rd parties stepping in quite quickly to provide physical and stl based conversion kits to fill the gaps.

Except the new Boyz are designed in such a way, that makes printing conversion parts extremly difficult, since each will have to be made to precisely fit one specific body, instead of having one generic bit be compatible with every single Boy body, like with the old ones, thus both reducing the usefulness of 3D printed parts, and making them much more difficult to design.

No doubt, be design.

Most of the boys still have the vest of the previous kit. Just make bits that require the removal of the whole arms and you’re back nearer to the older kit with arms that can be made compatible for more bodies.

Selling whole Orks would be another valid sales tactic, but if you make the arms cheap and simple enough I think you could do ok from it.

 Da Boss wrote:
Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all?

Made for 10th Edition [TM]

I don't know what their plan is, but I guess 3rd party bits and models will raise in sales

 Crimson wrote:
Yeah, it is not great. If this was marines, this would just be the easybuild variant and there would be a separate full kit. But they apparently don't want to invest such resources to orks. But given that, they definitely should have designed this kit differently. At absolute minimum, it should allow building five of either choppa or shoota boyz, so that you would at least get two sensibleish squads with two kits. Though ideally there should be enough arms to build ten of either with one kit as that would allow more variety without converting.

I think in my ideal world we would have gotten 2 Ork Boyz boxes, one for Slugga/Choppa Boyz and another for Shoota Boyz.

Then within each kit, have 10 unique monopose bodies but interchangeable arms/weapons/heads.

They could have sold each box for $50 each, which yeah is an increase from the current models but realistic compared to other kits GW has released recently.

It's quite disheartening.

The shoota boyz have always been my favorite style of ork too.

Just odd choices all around.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.

Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.

I don't think printing an entire Ork instead of just printing an Ork arm holding a gun/choppa/etc is a significant barrier. 10 cents of resin instead of 3?

 Ouze wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Da Boss wrote:
Really weird choices for this kit. Seems like it was designed without the game itself in mind at all? Which I guess is more and more the case. I've more than enough of the old boyz anyway and I also prefer them. Bad news for new ork players though.

Or it was designed to discourage using 3D printed parts and to encourage buying more boxes than before for a proper unit.

I don't think printing an entire Ork instead of just printing an Ork arm holding a gun/choppa/etc is a significant barrier. 10 cents of resin instead of 3?

Yeah, I mean... if that's what they were going for, they won't get what they wanted. But they might get something else.

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

Fair enough, I still find it odd that GW would leave us with a kit that can't even make a legal unit by such a long way. I know GW do odd things some times, but this is a new level.

They removed possibility of mixed squads in new codex?

Not sure if you're asking that sarcastically or you're genuinely inquiring? If it is the latter, yes, you still have the option to replace any boyz slugga and choppa with a shoota. But honestly how often will anyone do that especially with the shoota not being an assault weapon? I wouldn't even take a big shoota in a unit of boyz armed with sluggas and choppas. For me that's four (monopose) models wasted. Unless the new boyz will be multi-part, unlike the models in the combat patrol box, which I seriously doubt, because the image in the community post is the same image as the one for the combat patrol page on the main site.

I really like the new boyz over the old models (the proportions of the legs and the head are so much better) but this is just classic GW not giving a f*ck about what the consumers of their products want. For every step forward they take as a company it always seems like they take two steps back.

As someone who already has a lot of Orks, I like the new kits to supplement what I have. With the exception of that Nob, they are nice sculpts.

It's a huge downgrade for like... anyone who doesn't already have Orks to add to. What a garbage kit for any other situation.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.

The Current Ork boyz kit is incredibly popular because its so easy to kitbash into every other type of infantry ork. The old trick to quickly acquire a good sized army (Brand new) was to buy 1 kit of boyz and 2 boxes of lootas/burnas. You combined the 3 boxes to make 8 lootas, 8 burnas, 3 Tankbustas and then either 2 mekz and a Nob or you could equip the last 3 models as nobz or just more boyz, it was up to you.

So yeah, incredibly popular. But all of us "old players who like them" already have more then enough of them. I personally have 240ish Boyz, 30-40 Lootas, 20 Burnas, I just don't need more infantry atm.

The only kit I am really excited for right now thats infantry is the new Kommandos because the old kit was trash and too expensive.

SemperMortis wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


Sorry, maybe some confusion there, I mean if the current Ork Boyz kit was popular it would be sold out now, because GW would supposedly not be making any more of them but old players who like them would be buying up big thinking they'll soon be gone. Whether they were sold out in years gone by is a different matter.

The Current Ork boyz kit is incredibly popular because its so easy to kitbash into every other type of infantry ork. The old trick to quickly acquire a good sized army (Brand new) was to buy 1 kit of boyz and 2 boxes of lootas/burnas. You combined the 3 boxes to make 8 lootas, 8 burnas, 3 Tankbustas and then either 2 mekz and a Nob or you could equip the last 3 models as nobz or just more boyz, it was up to you.

So yeah, incredibly popular. But all of us "old players who like them" already have more then enough of them. I personally have 240ish Boyz, 30-40 Lootas, 20 Burnas, I just don't need more infantry atm.

The only kit I am really excited for right now thats infantry is the new Kommandos because the old kit was trash and too expensive.

That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.

Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are they? Would you think buying more is a good investment? Or even visually pleasing for an army?

If GW's plan consists on simply selling one or two of these to people who already play orks, that's a very myopic world view.

 Albertorius wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.

Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are these?

I don't disagree. I would like to have seen something a lot better than we got and I'm not inspired to reboot my Ork army with these models.

But we were heading down a weird discussion path that almost felt like blaming or at least whinging about people who wanted to see an upgrade to the tired old Ork kit.

After 20 years I'm not sad to see the old Ork kit gone, it's just disappointing GW didn't put some effort into making the new kit good. Like, does GW hate Ork players or something? It feels a bit like that.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

And how do the new ones attract "new" players? OHH! COOL! I have to buy 2 of these just to field a single MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz, or 3 to field a single unit of 10 shoota boyz.

Put that in perspective. I buy 3 current kits I can equip 3 nobz, and either 30 Boyz or 3 nobz, 27 boyz and 3 tankbustas. And the boyz are either choppa OR shoota, your choice, lots of bits left over to kustomize to your hearts content. So 3 boxes (Roughly $90) gets me 1 full sized mob of 30 boyz and extras.

New kit requires me to buy 2 boxes to field 10 Choppa boyz and 3 boxes to field 10 Shoota Boyz. And these new boxes are probably going to be $35 each or more, so you are talking $210 just to field 1 30 blob of Choppa boyz AND even worse, 10 boxes to field 30 shoota boyz, so you are talking $350 to field 30 shootaboyz. This kit is dumb as all hell.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

Dude, that argument was garbage when you were still in dreamland about that fabulous boyz set which was never going to happen, and it is garbage now.

Almost every single ork infantry set is using the EXACT. SAME. MODELS. as the old ork boyz kit. If you didn't like the old set, you also don't like burnas, lootas, warbikers, trukks and battlewagons. Because they use the exact same torsos, legs and heads.
Or in other words, if you didn't like how old boyz look, your were never going to like the look of an ork army anyways.

Wishing for a new kit was a mistake, and everyone who was crying for it, including you, is as much blame for this horrible piece of plastic garbage that has replaced a perfectly fine set as GW is.
It was a dumb thing to do, and there is no justification for it. Especially not "well, only new players are going to be screwed over by it."

SemperMortis wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

That's kind of my point. They're 20 year old models, and I'm sure in that 20 years they've sold tons of them. Even I have a few boxes even though I haven't touched my Ork army since probably 4th edition.

So are we at the point now where those models aren't attracting new players, and old players already have as many as they're likely ever going to buy?

And how do the new ones attract "new" players? OHH! COOL! I have to buy 2 of these just to field a single MSU mob of 10 choppa boyz, or 3 to field a single unit of 10 shoota boyz.

Put that in perspective. I buy 3 current kits I can equip 3 nobz, and either 30 Boyz or 3 nobz, 27 boyz and 3 tankbustas. And the boyz are either choppa OR shoota, your choice, lots of bits left over to kustomize to your hearts content. So 3 boxes (Roughly $90) gets me 1 full sized mob of 30 boyz and extras.

New kit requires me to buy 2 boxes to field 10 Choppa boyz and 3 boxes to field 10 Shoota Boyz. And these new boxes are probably going to be $35 each or more, so you are talking $210 just to field 1 30 blob of Choppa boyz AND even worse, 10 boxes to field 30 shoota boyz, so you are talking $350 to field 30 shootaboyz. This kit is dumb as all hell.

The pessimist in me thinks they expect new players to buy a few boxes of Neworks and never paint them or play with them. Isn't that where most of GW's money comes from?

I dunno what GW's plan is, unless they're hiding something it just seems like a short sighted attempt to temporarily inject some sales into the Orks.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
Wishing for a new kit was a mistake, and everyone who was crying for it...

I'm not the one crying, you are. As I've said, I found the old Boyz uninspiring, I find the new Boyz uninspiring, my attitude towards Ork Boyz remains apathetic.

...including you, is as much blame for this horrible piece of plastic garbage that has replaced a perfectly fine set as GW is.

Umm, yeah, I'm pretty sure GW had made their decision before I ever made a post on the topic. But if it makes you feel better to blame the people who had no input into the decisions or designs, go for it I guess?

I maintain that GW could have, based on their other kits, done a decent job with Neworks. They didn't, I assume it's because they hate you. Like, you, specifically you, Jidmah.

But anyway, if you genuinely think a few random posters on the interwebs pushed GW to bring out the new kit, you should be relieved, because the backlash against the new kit is way noisier than that ever was, so surely GW will continue to listen.

 Albertorius wrote:
That way of thinking is perfectly OK... as long as you replace them for something that can do the same, not... this.

Once you already have a box, two even, of these... how attractive are they? Would you think buying more is a good investment? Or even visually pleasing for an army?

If GW's plan consists on simply selling one or two of these to people who already play orks, that's a very myopic world view.

People were wishing for a modern kit. This is how modern kits have looked like for a while.
It was absolutely clear that it would either be a slightly more expensive kit with mono-pose models and no options whatsoever, or that it would double in price if it were even remotely as modular as the previous one.