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Wow. Vampires. I am shocked.

Ok, also Mega-Centigor, which... honestly isn't that surprising either. But... I'd rather just have plastic centigors.

And between him and the dragon-centaur-vampires, this feels like an amazing missed opportunity for a plastic Dragon Ogre Shaggoth.

---
Vampires are... eh.
Seriously, a pile of special characters and a non-special torso and head that just feels sort of blu-tacked on. Not sure Warhammer needed Legion of Everblight vampires (which is ironic given how people bagged on Legion for the tyranid-esque designs), and I definitely don't think it needed non-Strigoi bestial vampires when there are still Strigoi running about their own faction, but... whatever.

On the other paw, those are really excellent dire wolves, propping up some serious missed opportunities. And they're also on bases rather than climbing ridiculous pillars of junk or major terrain features.
So, huzzah?

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
The community came up with a theory early on that the Soulblight Gravelords battletome will replace the Legions of Nagash one, and while there is evidence this will not be the case there is no explicit confirmation. Thank you for the response anyways though

Well, they didn't talk about the Mortarchs either.

Cronch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.

That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.

In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.

Kragnos: I am Kragnos! Slayer of dragons.

Beastmen Players: I giant Centigor! Finally our time has come!

Kragnos: My forces consist of Orcs, Giants, Ogres and...

Beastmen Players: He's gonna say us!

Kragnos: ... Goblins!

Beastman Players:

 LunarSol wrote:
Definitely glad the vamps are more character heavy.

Vampires being the main star of the show is a good thing, but I wish they weren't so special character heavy.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Agreed, two great minis with no coherent join.

Seems odd that they did this rather than just release a standalone Vornskyr (or whatever the not-Vargulf from Cursed City is called).

Ditto that there's no Undead Ogre kit to match the one from Cursed City. You'd think that unit as a king of 'heavy infantry' for this new AoS army would be a complete shoe-in.

 Crimson wrote:
But as many posters have already noted, he doesn't visually connect to anything in the Destruction faction'; he looks more like he should go with Beast of Chaos.

Maybe another example of the model designers doing something that the rules guys then had to figure out after the fact.

 lord_blackfang wrote:
I suppose Kragnos will be a big seller in Slovenia since he's straight ripping our iron age relics and national symbols

Don't be absurd. All of GW's ideas are completely original and are in no way inspired by outside sources. They told us much when they took a small person to caught and told us that they invented arrows, Roman numerals and grenade launchers.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
GW really needs to understand "Less is more" when it comes to AoS.

Ne'er has a truer word been spoken about Age of Sigmar. And that's going in my sig.

I absolutely love the new models, GW is just blowing it out of the park, I need to get Kagnos to lead my grots for sure!

I can't wait to see what's coming the rest of the week. I'm hoping for Saturday we get the third plastic Horus Heresy box set.

Voss wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.

That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.

In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.

Heres the thing, it could mean several things.

1. BOC are corrupted versions of the original ones. Kragnos is the ORIGINAL race that came before BoC.

2. His people were pre-chaos age.

3. Just because he looks like a beastmen does not mean he is associated with chaos. BoC especially shouldn't all be apart of chaos anyway. They were only thrown at Chaos because they were in fantasy which already was stretch before.

Definitely a mixed bag. I love the new vamp-taur model, but Radukar the Beast and his grandma do nothing for me.

Was honestly hoping for more. There are still some ancient models that could use an update in the line, and Grave Guard and Black Knights are going to look tiny compared to the new Skeletons. Still absolutely ridiculous we can't take the Vargskyr or any of the other things from Cursed City separately, but at least it'll soften the sting for those that didn't get it.

Kragnos is... Kragnos. I'm not a Destruction fan, so I won't say anything more. I do look forward to how other people paint the model. The GW paint was great around his armor and shield, but his face and flesh seem really flat.

Also, wow, a mobile game ad in the middle of the stream. Chat went wild with "Don't you guys have phones??" (reference to Diablo mobile game fiasco) and a LOT of rage and heat. In an already short reveal stream, the last thing people want is another mobile game.

Like seriously, if it was any other kind of game, fine, but a mobile game? Wow GW, is that where we're at now?

drbored wrote:
Definitely a mixed bag. I love the new vamp-taur model, but Radukar the Beast and his grandma do nothing for me.

Was honestly hoping for more. There are still some ancient models that could use an update in the line, and Grave Guard and Black Knights are going to look tiny compared to the new Skeletons. Still absolutely ridiculous we can't take the Vargskyr or any of the other things from Cursed City separately, but at least it'll soften the sting for those that didn't get it.

Kragnos is... Kragnos. I'm not a Destruction fan, so I won't say anything more. I do look forward to how other people paint the model. The GW paint was great around his armor and shield, but his face and flesh seem really flat.

Also, wow, a mobile game ad in the middle of the stream. Chat went wild with "Don't you guys have phones??" (reference to Diablo mobile game fiasco) and a LOT of rage and heat. In an already short reveal stream, the last thing people want is another mobile game.

Like seriously, if it was any other kind of game, fine, but a mobile game? Wow GW, is that where we're at now?

Mobile games literally make billions of dollars wierd they didn't catch on sooner or make an AR game for their events.

I was hoping for new grave guard, black knights, etc but the stuff we got is cool. I think there will be a second release for them, and they range refresh over time and we might third edition in the coming months.

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

Vampires are not bad, but way too many special characters. Stilk, I tought they would be better than that after seing that sublime underworld warband.

Kragnos is interesting, but looks too much like a beatmen. Seems weird to see him in destruction

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.

I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

 Asherian Command wrote:

Voss wrote:

Cronch wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
To be fair, Kragnos isn't meant to fit in with the factions. He's the last of his kind, the Destruction factions are just following in his wake it seems.

That's all fine and dandy in theory, but in practice he will stick out like a sore thumb, like bringing Nagash to an army of Slaaneshi demons. He's not meant to fit, but it still makes the army look worse, not better.

In practice he's a 3-up of a centigor. The whole thing is just weird. This concept already exists, in AoS. He simply has been decreed to not be a Beasts of Chaos character despite fitting right into this formula:
Dragon Ogres --> Shaggoth (and in the Old world go a step further into Kholek or the sire of the Dragon Ogres, Krakanrok the Black)
Centigors --> Kragnos.

Heres the thing, it could mean several things.

1. BOC are corrupted versions of the original ones. Kragnos is the ORIGINAL race that came before BoC.

Well... except he has horns, clawed hands and random bone spurs, similar to what the centigors have, except his are set to 'more.' That doesn't send a message that centigor are the corrupted ones.
You can make some arguments about hooves vs clawed feet, but GW flipped repeatedly on that for other BoC models (like minotaurs), so that's pretty inconclusive.

2. His people were pre-chaos age.

So... why doesn't he look less like a centigor, then?
Anyway, that sounds like someone rapidly doodling new fluff on the back of a napkin, not something consistent with the setting.

3. Just because he looks like a beastmen does not mean he is associated with chaos. BoC especially shouldn't all be apart of chaos anyway. They were only thrown at Chaos because they were in fantasy which already was stretch before.

Gonna have to just flatly disagree on that. All that. Granted, beastmen started looking a little more consistent once they shifted to plastic models, but.. they're _the_ children of chaos. Its was a big part of their identity in fantasy (and absolutely the fundamental aspect of their identity since RoC: Lost and the Damned), and I'm unaware that changed in AoS.


----
Edit: Oh. I missed the ork model in the separate article. Cyborks are a neat unit idea... oh... nevermind. Its a Primar-ork Painboy, even more better than wot an existing model is. yaay.

drbored wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.

I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha!
I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..

Everything is either a centaur posing on some obnoxious rocks, or a floating magic man. If GW jumped the shark any harder it'd be wearing a leather jacket in a sitcom about the 50s.

 Argive wrote:

drbored wrote:
I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha! I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..

Pfft! Do you guys not have phones?

So I like the Lynel model (but probably not enough to over pay for it) but I wish it wasnt seemingly standalone and had other members of its race alongside it.

The vampire stuff does nothing for me personally (none of the undead stuff over the past year or two has) but its good to see its intended audience seems to like it.

I'm just hopeful that new chaos marauders are on the way.

Meh?

As models I like all of them, but as vampire models they don't really thrill me the way I loved the previous reveal. I'm getting Lumineth vibes with how the first reveal is almost entirely reimagined/updated version of a WHFB line and then outrolls the 'different for the sake of being different' wagon.

The Giant Vampire-Bat Lady and Nameless Lord just seem like they phoned in a centrepiece because GW is now required by law to include a diorama with every AoS release and they wanted to be different for the sake of being different.

I like the concept of a Gangrel- sorry, Werewolf/Vampire hybrid Bloodline but Olenna Tyrell riding a wolf feels a bit like they're getting into Space Wolf 'Wolfcutlass Wolfangs Wolfcurse' territory.

Kragnos screams Centaur/Beasts of Chaos so much I'm not surprised BoC players are awaiting the No Longer Available signs warily.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.

The Legion of Nagash Battletome is 'Sold Out - No Longer Available' on the UK, US, German, Spanish, Japanese and Australian webstores so I believe that's a pretty good indication it's being superseded by the Soulblight Gravelords Battletome.

 Commodus Leitdorf wrote:
Well I very much like everything but I also don't play any of those armies so my wallet is safe.

Pretty much my stance cool models, won't mind facing them provided rules aren't totally bonkers but no inclination to start vampires so wallet safe.

 Argive wrote:

drbored wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.

I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha!
I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..

It... it is. It's like AFK Arena or something. You just put the dudes wherever and then the game plays itself. I wish I was kidding.

Sarouan wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Question for those who watched the whole stream; did we get confirmation that Soulblight are their own battletome and not LoN 2.0? The circumstantial evidence for it not being a replacement is quite piled up at this point but it would still be nice to have a definite answer.

Well yeah they have their own battletome. They showed it before in a previous article.

They said nothing about Legion of Nagash, but it's pretty obvious from what they showed that a lot of warscrolls will be replaced at best.

Otherwise, there are several vampire bloodlines obviously...to me, more than LoN 2.0, it's WHFB Vampire Counts : AoS edition.

But they said nothing much about the rules, other than "watch Warhammer Community, there will be more articles about them soon".

Lon battletome(physical) is no longer available from gw store thoqugh


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Dysartes wrote:

Slayer-Fan123 wrote:
I was fine with the models but updated Lizardmen would get me 100% into looking into AoS, assuming 3.0 fixes the balance issues (likely not).

Are the AOS balance issues from the core rules, or from the army books?

If the latter, then the theoretical 3.0 is unlikely to solve the issue - at best, it might just change where the problems are.

Making shooting and magic less efficient would help a lot. For example deny shooting in and into combat. Boom instant help. Scenarios can be used to that effect(see how　40k melee became essential with scenario changes)


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 lord_blackfang wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
unless Kragnos is getting a battle tome that combines all them into his own faction.

It's... pretty damn obvious that he leads mixed armies.

They didn't say so though. Pics hint but could be just shots from scenarios. What they did say is he can be added to any destruction army. Gotrek doesn't give you mixed order despite being available to every order.

Finally got home to be able to look at this.
I like the aesthetic of the vampires.....no, not those from today, the ones they've shown previously and the ones from Direchasm. The hybrid centaur vampire is ridiculously bad. At first glance (on my phone), I was intrigued by the torso....then I tried to figure out what she was standing on.....then I realized it's the rest of her body, lol. So bad.

Beast Radukar is OK I guess.

Kragnos face is just awful, really, really awful. Rest is OK if not generic, but that model is a big pass for me for any reason. I would not be afraid facing this guy, I'd be laughing at his face....he really needed a lisp in the videos to make it all come together.

Overall, not a great showing today....just sometimes they go too far, and these models definitely went too far.

 Argive wrote:

drbored wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.

I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha!
I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..

Well guess they could have not shown　that and have 5min shorter preview. Better?

Or what model you would have preferred to drop for blood knight character?

tneva82 wrote:

 Argive wrote:

drbored wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Asherian Command wrote:
Mobile games literally make billions of dollars...

... by being predatory and exploitative time-sinks. I, too, am shocked that GW didn't jump into that kind of market years ago.

True! But as we have seen, mobile games are not what an audience that wants plastic toy soldiers wants to have advertised to them.

I think it was some 20,000+ people tuned in to the stream expecting models, and they whip out a mobile game ad. NOT a good look for any company. I don't care how much money they make, it is NOT a good look.

We have no blood knight characters for you... BUUUT heres a mobile game! Thats Cool right? chachacha!
I bet its one of those games that plays itself too..

Well guess they could have not shown　that and have 5min shorter preview. Better?

Sure. Is the length of the preview significant somehow?
They showed off the models, a mobile game certainly doesn't make this a better preview.
Not doing gak like that certainly looks better.

I want to go on chronological order:

I really liked the chest on The Mother of Nightmares, and thought that she had a nice mount, a a new animal... then I flipped over and realised it was HER. At the moment I thought it was truly cool and fitting of a "nightmare". Now I think it is silly and quite impractical and I wonder how do they walk. I really like them and think "yeah but why?" at the same time. If they were the usual vampire lord on a gargoyle like mount this would be an insta banger in my book. Also, RIP Nightmares. I like the new Blood Knights, but I don't like the fact that they are riding skelehorses instead of angry zombiehorses.

Radukar: Cursed City is still out of print BTW.

Dire Wolves MVPs here. I love me some fwuffy bwois and gwils. I can't believe current are plastic at all, and the new ones will work great as Chaos Warhound proxies. And that raven eating the back of one of them. 10/10.

Pro-Wolf-Lives Cruella deVille Granny is truly a Queen, a "Beautiful Lady", if you like".

Mobile game nobody ca- oh feth, that Chibi-Kroxigor is just a bag of cuteness and love. I'm only looking foward that.

Kragnie: okay so I thought he was going to be a mercenary God from the Beastmen and then would have lend his services to any faction. Turns out he is entirely new God from Destruction and can be part of any army. Okay so he is the fourth... "archetype"? of miniature to do that after Archie, Megas and Be'lie.
Also, he is the "last" of his people, but remember that Nagash was the only of his sub faction and then sometime later he made the OBR, so expect the God of Earthquakes to start creating centauroid earth elementals or something in the next few years.
I really like him, particularly having optional mouths, but I already see him overpriced as all Chaosrealm, despite he being much smaller then what GW is selling him: standing on a big rock and that rock is already on a greater level, but in the War-Com article he is almost right next and the exact same size than a Thundertusk. Wonder how he managed to break a tooth of Gorkamorka (or Morkagorka?).

What I really didn't liked about this?

TOO SHORT!

Now that we know that they left Destruction for the last Broken Realms, I wonder what special boxes will they put out to sale. A big Orc-A-Palooza? An Ogre All-You-Can-Eat Buffet? 3x2 Giants? A bucket load of Goblins?

They probably won't add another Lizardmen one because of the last box, despite Kroak's re-release, but I'm quite confident in that they will add Sylvaneth, Slaanesh, or both, bundles, so I expect another hot sale.

Then maybe a Freeguilds or Teclis force, don't give Khorne even a fleeting mention and call it a day.

Yeah, it definitely felt too short. Ah well, here's hoping tomorrow's reveals are a little more significant?

What I'm impressed by is that we've had virtually no leaks on the 40k side of things.

I've not had the chance to watch the actual preview being that it was on at 3am, but did they give any idea of when Kragnos was going up for release?

Is this a week after next thing, or "within the next 3 months" thing?

drbored wrote:
Yeah, it definitely felt too short. Ah well, here's hoping tomorrow's reveals are a little more significant?

What I'm impressed by is that we've had virtually no leaks on the 40k side of things.

We pretty much know what 40k has in big pictures. Q is mostly what units orks get. Much like we knew soulblight getting shown but didn't know most of models shown.

Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"

Such a strange grab bag of stuff, none of which seems to fit with anything else.

Nice dire wolves, can't say the rest of it moves me much.

yukishiro1 wrote:
Kragnos feels like a lazy "we want to milk destruction players for a big centerpiece model, but we don't want to make one for each faction, so let's just make one that fits none of them at all and let them all take him!"

Such a strange grab bag of stuff, none of which seems to fit with anything else.

Nice dire wolves, can't say the rest of it moves me much.

Agreed. He kind of comes out of nowhere and has no aesethetic synergy with the current model range for Destruction. What Destruction really lacks IMO right now is any significantly flavourful or narratively important special characters that help direct them in some sort of way that isn't just "go there and smash stuff". Gordrakk is somehow even less interesting than Grimgor, who at least had his slave past with the Chaos Dwarves, and just kind of goes around realmgates are and where the plot needs him to be. Skargrotti is better but also not particularly a big player beyond his stomping grounds. The mawtribes don't have anybody AFAIK and after kind of forcing them into the semi-worship of Gorkamorka for some reason rather than the Great Maw, now they kind of backpedalled again and now we have Kragnos as one of the mainline deities for Destruction. I personally don't want Gorkamorka in model form, but I feel like they could have at least had some big player that could be directly tied to one of the major subfactions in Destruction.