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Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

Yub Nub was a great song.

 Vulcan wrote:
Here's the real problem.

Young Luke refuses to kill his mass-murdering, child killing, Dark Lord of the Sith and right-hand man to Emperor Palpatine father.

How does that person become willing to himself even CONSIDER murdering his nephew, who he is apprenticing, in the kid's sleep, before he'd even done anything wrong?

Yeah, the Luke we see could be a bitter old man. But the explanation of HOW he became that bitter old man was pretty darn limp. It needed to be set up way better than it was, if they wanted us to buy in.

Exactly this - the Luke we see in the OT cares deeply for his family, even his father, despite knowing what Anakin turned into.

Despite his father being one of the most evil people alive at the time (or, at least, that we see on screen), he believes it is possible to redeem him - and this is after he lost a hand in their first lightsaber duel on Bespin. He makes a sacrifice play at Endor to try to do so, and to help protect his sister at the same time. OK, he was close to Leia anyway, but he only finds out she's his sister in RotJ.

His sacrifice play works. OK, he should be in worse physical shape than we see him in at the end of the film, but he manages to convince his father to return to the Light Side in time to (as far we know at the time) kill Palpatine and save his son. We know this redemption appears to work by his appearance alongside Yoda and Obiwan at the end of the film as a force ghost - I doubt they'd accept his presence were he still seen by them as a Sith.

Luke is likely to have a skewed perception of the Dark Side at this point - but it is likely to be skewed in favour of redemption, rather than murder. If the Force were to show the vision of Ben to the Luke at the end of RotJ, he's more likely to monitor Ben more closely, and work to head off any Dark Side influence - not cut the head from the serpent. And that's before you take into account the fact that Ben is his nephew - as we know how important family ties are to him.

Cranky Old Man Luke isn't inherently a problem. You could tell a decent story around Cranky Old Man Luke. At the end of 7, we have no idea why he is like this - another JJ mystery box at that point in time - but we assume there is a story to tell. The story that we're told doesn't line up with what we know of the character from the OT in any way, shape or form. In fact, from memory, I'd say he's pretty much the only OT character whose ST characterisation doesn't really fit with how we see them in the OT.

Oh, and Lance? You may not like the EU material that's now in Legends, but it was developed in a much better manner than the ST ended up being. There are elements and sub-series I'm not a fan of, for sure, but there were also some damn fine reads in there. As for "might as well be fan fiction", as far as I recall there was quite a bit of Lucas (or LucasFilm, at least) oversight, at least for the first few series. The corrupted Jacen Solo we saw in the EU was a far more interesting character than evil Ben Solo from the films, for example.

Darth Mickey made a big error in shunting it all into being a parallel timeline, rather than picking and choosing the books that they wanted to use to form the base of their new timeline. Hier to the Empire trilogy, Jedi Academy trilogy, the Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron books, just off the top of my head.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

Rogue 1 is the best thing ever put to celluloid (or digital equivalent).

Lightsabre fights are awesome spectacles in all 9 of the films, even when the fight mechanics don't necessarily make sense when considering a blade with zero mass and momentum and infinite cutting power.

The ship designs are gorgeously realised (even when I dislike some of the concepts... looking at you starfortress!).

The star wars galaxy has been realised to a level of consistent detail that it lends itself to fans getting truly caught up as if it is a real place, hence disappointment when things jar or seem a bit lazy.

It has pew pew lasers and zoomy space ships. It is a lovely place to visit.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

I like the original movies, the prequels, Rogue One and Solo, Clone Wars, Rebels and Mandalorian, and I have a lot of good things to say about those.

You'll notice that the sequel trilogy is explicitly not on that list as I think it's both a bunch of bad Star Wars movies and bad movies in general.

But all that other stuff is very enjoyable to me.

Most of what I wrote may also be a little off topic for this thread, but maybe it helps you feel a little better.

 Geifer wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

I like the original movies, the prequels, Rogue One and Solo, Clone Wars, Rebels and Mandalorian, and I have a lot of good things to say about those.

You'll notice that the sequel trilogy is explicitly not on that list as I think it's both a bunch of bad Star Wars movies and bad movies in general.

But all that other stuff is very enjoyable to me.

Most of what I wrote may also be a little off topic for this thread, but maybe it helps you feel a little better.

No, you're not OT to my post. I asked if anyone here liked anything about star wars. Your answer was valid.

I would add some of the SW novels were excellent, Heir to the Empire being the best of the best.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

Yeah, it was pretty ground breaking and got us away from late 70's Nihilism in cinema. Sadly, we have turned the corner and returned back to everything having to be grim and gritty all the time.

I wonder what the "New" Star Wars will be that will allow us to turn the corner back in popular culture?

 Easy E wrote:

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

Yeah, it was pretty ground breaking and got us away from late 70's Nihilism in cinema. Sadly, we have turned the corner and returned back to everything having to be grim and gritty all the time.

I wonder what the "New" Star Wars will be that will allow us to turn the corner back in popular culture?

Yeah, you're right there. So many 70's movies were dark, depressing, hopeless, etc. SW broke that streak. And it was something no other SW movie could ever be: it was NEW. it was lie nothing on the big screen before. That was it's real secret, it was new.

I think one thing that plagued a lot of movies, especially the sw sequels, after SW was what i call 'Epic Movie Syndrome". When people make star wars they just made the best movie they could, they weren't trying to make an 'epic movie".

But SW exploded the box office and its sequels just had to be epic movies, they were trying to make an epic movie. And when people decide to make an epic movie instead of just the best one they can, it often falls under thw weight is trying to be an epic.

I think STTMP suffered from this a little, and the Dune movie definitely did. In fact when i saw Dune the sound track even seemed to beshouting 'THIS IS AN EPIC-MOVIE! EPIC MO-VIE! EPIC MO-VIE!" I literally imagines hearing those words as the soundtrack blared at me.

Now the LotR movies managed to succeed despite having an epic legend to bear, i almost wish i could have watched them but i'm not a LotR fan. There's nothing wrong with LotR, i am just not into it. (I know one had stephen colbert ina bit part and i watched that cuz i like that guy.)

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

Star Wars? Yes. There's a lot of good in it. Rogue One was by far and away the best Disney SW film to date.

Anything good to say about 8 or 9? Did you read the title of the thread?

I don't participate in the Disney/Star Wars promotion thread because 8 killed all interest I have in Disney Star Wars... and because that's a thread for people who are looking forward to future Disney Star Wars releases. I don't go over there and trash-talk Disney Star Wars out of courtesy for people who have a different opinion than I do.

So coming here and trash-talking people who think 8 and 9 are bad is quite DIScourteous, don't you think?

Go to the other thread and discuss what you enjoy. Let us discuss what we didn't enjoy in peace.

 LunarSol wrote:

Their use in TPM is pretty emblematic of the prequel's overall abundance of good ideas and inability to get them across. In the film, they're used to justify Qui Gon's faith in Anakin rather than letting Anakin do things that make him worth having faith in. Honestly, if that was Lucas's intent, the Midichlorian test should have been what disqualified Anakin from being found and trained by the Jedi, with Anakin's abilities giving Qui Gon reason to push to train him regardless.

Whoa, I have hated the midichlorian idea since 1999... but that would have been awesome.

 Dysartes wrote:

Oh, and Lance? You may not like the EU material that's now in Legends, but it was developed in a much better manner than the ST ended up being. There are elements and sub-series I'm not a fan of, for sure, but there were also some damn fine reads in there. As for "might as well be fan fiction", as far as I recall there was quite a bit of Lucas (or LucasFilm, at least) oversight, at least for the first few series. The corrupted Jacen Solo we saw in the EU was a far more interesting character than evil Ben Solo from the films, for example.

Darth Mickey made a big error in shunting it all into being a parallel timeline, rather than picking and choosing the books that they wanted to use to form the base of their new timeline. Hier to the Empire trilogy, Jedi Academy trilogy, the Rogue Squadron and Wraith Squadron books, just off the top of my head.

Wether I like something or not has nothing to do with the point I was making. Most of the EU around Luke turns him into a paragon of force virtue. Which is counter to everything about the character seen in the movies. If your idea of Jedi Master Luke is based on the EU then you forgot what Luke was actually like in the movies.

I mean, I think the Legends EU take on Luke was that, barring early post RotJ entanglements with the dark side, he had completed most of his character development within the span of the film series and overcome his faults and demons - which is a valid interpretation.... but at the point at which a character stops developing they cease to be worth continuing to tell stories about. I.E. they continued writing stories about Luke well past the oint that they should have stopped, and there wasn't much else to do with him other than make him Force-Jesus the Mary Sue.

 StygianBeach wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Their use in TPM is pretty emblematic of the prequel's overall abundance of good ideas and inability to get them across. In the film, they're used to justify Qui Gon's faith in Anakin rather than letting Anakin do things that make him worth having faith in. Honestly, if that was Lucas's intent, the Midichlorian test should have been what disqualified Anakin from being found and trained by the Jedi, with Anakin's abilities giving Qui Gon reason to push to train him regardless.

Whoa, I have hated the midichlorian idea since 1999... but that would have been awesome.

Lots of things that went wrong in Star Wars could have been made awesome.

Ewoks were supposed to be wookies. That would have made RotJ make SO much more sense. Ewoks wiping out an Imperial Legion is weird. Wookies doing it would have been awesome.

Applying that to 8...

"Grumpy old man Luke" is a front he's putting on, much like "Crazy green midget Yoda" in ESB. It's a test to see if Rey is worthy of training. Luke blames himself for Ben's fall, but he didn't try to murder Ben in his sleep. Instead Ben turned on him during a lesson, caught Luke by surprise with a force push, and went on to wipe out the rest of the Academy. Luke exiled himself immediately afterwards, but his meditations since have shown him that he can't run from his responsibilities and he still has to train the next generation of Jedi.

Cut Poe's prank call on Hux. That served zero purpose.

The First Order only brings the Dreadnaught and a couple escort carriers to deal with the Resistance. The rest of their fleet is running around accepting surrenders. The bombing raid is done with Y-Wings and B-Wings, possibly even using the B-Wing prototype with the composite laser to deal the killing blow. Casualties remain heavy

Leia remembers that during the battle of Yavin, two full squadrons of fighters left and only three fighters came back, two significantly damage, and doesn't attack Poe for suffering slightly LESS casualties.

Admiral Holdo is in charge of fleet counterintelligence. She refuses to discuss plans with Poe because she's convinced there's a spy in the fleet, and probably thinks it's Finn. So instead of guarding the escape pods, Rose is guarding Finn in the detention area and Poe has to convince her to let him out.

Supremacy shows up to chase the Resistance alone. Again, most of the fleet is still running around accepting surrenders.

Rose and Finn go to Casino planet to get a hacker to hack the First Order computers on the Supremacy so they can find out who the spy is. They find out just a little too late... it's Holdp.

Holdo had bargained with the First Order to get the Resistance in a position where they could be captured with minimal loss of life. That's why they're out of fuel, Holdo arranged it. She gets all the Resistance personnel out in the open in 'stealth' transports so they can be captured, not killed. Hux tells her (in a throwback to Grand Moff Tarkin) "You're far too trusting, my dear," and stars blowing transports up. Holdo turns and rams the Raddus into the Supremacy in normal space, crippling it. Thus, she earns her redemption arc.

Battle on not-Hoth has Luke and Rey arriving together, Rey helps evacuate the Resistance while Luke stalls the First Order attack. He is killed in battle, probably by Kylo Ren in a manner reminiscent of Obi-Wan's death, after cutting a swath through the First Order's troops.

Same basic plot points but VASTLY more interesting, yes?

 Vulcan wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Considering this is a topic I actually know anout from a professional standpoint, Im just going to go ahead and say that you're way overthinking this.

Well, there really isn't any other enjoyment to be derived from the movie, so...

Expect they are great movies. And much better than the prequels?

 Vulcan wrote:


Same basic plot points but VASTLY more interesting, yes?

No.

Ewoks are a Vietnam nod. Superior enemy technologically getting their ass handed to them by people thought of as backward, bucktoothed, dumb savages with sticks. All of the OT film battles are based in real life parallels. Hoth= Dunkirk, the Original Death Star trench run is the entire plot of the Dam Busters.

Nothing is wrong with Luke's character and is very much in line with Jedi hubris biting them in the ass and going on to be hermits.

The prank was fun bit of levity and Star Wars is chock full of it.

While I would have loved to have seen the Ys and Bs, they were REPUBLIC property. Leia was using decommissioned, black market, and scraps for her Resistance. The bombers were obsolete, but there was still nothing wrong with the scene and their usage. Poe is a hot head, who thinks every problem can be solved with starfighters. He needed a humbling event.

Everything you said about Holdo? Just... no. She's a badass as is. The hyperspace ram was sweet. She doesn't need a redemption arc.

Again the First Order is a modern allegory for alt-rights following in their jack booted reverence of their old glory aka Empire/Nazi. So it makes sense they are egotists, and so cocksure, they will win it's why that even with better tech than anyone else they are absolute blundering idiots for the most part in tactics and critical thinking. and can be taken down completely by regular folk and little homebrew violence in TRS.

Canto Bight and DJ as a red herring is nice. Everyone got so pissy that TFA was walking in the same shoes as the original so then they got pissy that instead of the next Lando, they got that curveball.

The fight on Crait is again taking advantage of the First Order being blind fanatics chasing their daddy's ideals. I would have liked Luke to physically be there, but getting killed serves no purpose. The force projection across vast distances of space was a great show of his power.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

I have. I like everything Star Wars except Episode 2 and the 2d Clone Wars shows, but even then different strokes for different folks. The idea of 7,8, or 9 being cringe in any way is childish toxic fanboys crying crocodile tears.

9 is cringier. I got less than 20 minutes in.

8 was worse for me as a star wars fan but 9 is definitely cringier.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

BioWare can do really cool things with the setting?

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Expect they are great movies. And much better than the prequels?

They are absolutely not great movies. I wouldn't say they're much better than the prequels either. Equally bad, but in very different ways.

Ewoks are a Vietnam nod. Superior enemy technologically getting their ass handed to them by people thought of as backward, bucktoothed, dumb savages with sticks.

Still would have been better with Wookies.

All of the OT film battles are based in real life parallels. Hoth= Dunkirk

I'm sorry, but... how? Seriously, how? No civilian fleet showed up to rescue the Rebels so I'm so curious how this connection was made.

Everything you said about Holdo? Just... no. She's a badass as is. The hyperspace ram was sweet.

No, it really wasn't. Causes so many continuity issues.

 Vulcan wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Their use in TPM is pretty emblematic of the prequel's overall abundance of good ideas and inability to get them across. In the film, they're used to justify Qui Gon's faith in Anakin rather than letting Anakin do things that make him worth having faith in. Honestly, if that was Lucas's intent, the Midichlorian test should have been what disqualified Anakin from being found and trained by the Jedi, with Anakin's abilities giving Qui Gon reason to push to train him regardless.

Whoa, I have hated the midichlorian idea since 1999... but that would have been awesome.

Lots of things that went wrong in Star Wars could have been made awesome.

Ewoks were supposed to be wookies. That would have made RotJ make SO much more sense. Ewoks wiping out an Imperial Legion is weird. Wookies doing it would have been awesome.

Applying that to 8...

"Grumpy old man Luke" is a front he's putting on, much like "Crazy green midget Yoda" in ESB. It's a test to see if Rey is worthy of training. Luke blames himself for Ben's fall, but he didn't try to murder Ben in his sleep. Instead Ben turned on him during a lesson, caught Luke by surprise with a force push, and went on to wipe out the rest of the Academy. Luke exiled himself immediately afterwards, but his meditations since have shown him that he can't run from his responsibilities and he still has to train the next generation of Jedi.

Cut Poe's prank call on Hux. That served zero purpose.

The First Order only brings the Dreadnaught and a couple escort carriers to deal with the Resistance. The rest of their fleet is running around accepting surrenders. The bombing raid is done with Y-Wings and B-Wings, possibly even using the B-Wing prototype with the composite laser to deal the killing blow. Casualties remain heavy

Leia remembers that during the battle of Yavin, two full squadrons of fighters left and only three fighters came back, two significantly damage, and doesn't attack Poe for suffering slightly LESS casualties.

Admiral Holdo is in charge of fleet counterintelligence. She refuses to discuss plans with Poe because she's convinced there's a spy in the fleet, and probably thinks it's Finn. So instead of guarding the escape pods, Rose is guarding Finn in the detention area and Poe has to convince her to let him out.

Supremacy shows up to chase the Resistance alone. Again, most of the fleet is still running around accepting surrenders.

Rose and Finn go to Casino planet to get a hacker to hack the First Order computers on the Supremacy so they can find out who the spy is. They find out just a little too late... it's Holdp.

Holdo had bargained with the First Order to get the Resistance in a position where they could be captured with minimal loss of life. That's why they're out of fuel, Holdo arranged it. She gets all the Resistance personnel out in the open in 'stealth' transports so they can be captured, not killed. Hux tells her (in a throwback to Grand Moff Tarkin) "You're far too trusting, my dear," and stars blowing transports up. Holdo turns and rams the Raddus into the Supremacy in normal space, crippling it. Thus, she earns her redemption arc.

Battle on not-Hoth has Luke and Rey arriving together, Rey helps evacuate the Resistance while Luke stalls the First Order attack. He is killed in battle, probably by Kylo Ren in a manner reminiscent of Obi-Wan's death, after cutting a swath through the First Order's troops.

Same basic plot points but VASTLY more interesting, yes?

Theres nothing wrong with Ewoks. Wookiees would have been better, but the Ewoks work for what they are needed for.

Nothing was wrong with Lukes character or portrayal, just stop it. I'm not sure why we're even hung up on the idea that Luke tried to kill Ben - Luke was reacting to a force vision of Ben slaughtering his students, a more reasonable interpretation of events was that he drew his lightsaber in defense against events that weren't really occuring. Luke never says he tried to kill Ben - he says "And for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop it. It passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame... and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed him." While I understand why its being interpreted the way everyone has, theres another interpretation there too - "for the briefest moment of pure instinct, I thought I could stop these events that I was witnessing but were not actually occuring. The idea that I could stop these visions passed like a fleeting shadow. And I was left with shame... and with consequence. And the last thing I saw were the eyes of a frightened boy whose master had failed to teach him and protect him against the dangers of the dark side.

Poes call was awful, agreed on that. I like my Tony Stark/Peter Parker style humor in my Marvel movies just fine, but I don't like it in my Star Wars movies.

The Resistance Bombers are fine, although admittedly far too painfully slow in their portrayal. They looked like they were moving slower than I could run - just speed them up a bit and they are fine. No reason why we have to keep recycling the same fighters over and over and over again just because a couple fans seem to have fetishized them, and as already established - you don't send a Stuka to do the job of a B-52.

Your bit about Leia and Yavin shows that you've entirely missed the point of the events that transpired in Ep 8. Yavin was a battle for survival, the Rebels did not have the ability to escape Yavin, they were trapped there and destined to be destroyed by the Death Star if their last ditch attack failed. Why they are trapped there is never really made clear in A New Hope to begin with, we only know the answer to that now thanks to Rogue One establishing the destruction and scattering of the Rebel Fleet at the Battle of Scarif meant that there was insufficient time and transport capacity immediately available for the Rebels to evacuate Yavin before the Death Star arrived, the most essential personnel and material had already been ferried away (Mon Mothma included, who planned to surrender to the Emperor in the event that Yavin was destroyed), and whatever and whoever was left was trapped their until shortly after the Death Star was destroyed. In the case of Episode 8, the destruction of the Fulminatrix was wholly and completely unnecessary - the Resistance had completed its evacuation of D'kar and the Resistance fleet was assembled and ready to jump away, only waiting on Poe and his starfighters and bombers to return to their hangar bays in order to jump away. Poe's attack was an unnecessary waste of lives and resources that could have been used elsewhere to greater effect instead of being sent on a suicide mission against an enemy that did not need to be destroyed, and in the process he put the Resistance Fleet at greater risk as the Fulminatrix was readying to destroy the Resistance vessels while they waited for the fighters/bombers to jump.

Your change to Holdo works well and would have made a lot more sense than the direction they ended up going in in the film. I suggested something similar when I walked out of the theater. Making her counterintel is unnecessary though, the storyline works fine with her simply being an admiral concerned about a spy in the ranks and thus withholding info on that basis. Would have probably gone a lot farther to making Holdos character more likeable for audiences vs the attitude for the sake of attitude approach that she took in the movie. In general though, it doesn't entirely make sense that one of the few remaining pilots left alive wouldn't have been briefed in on the evacuation plan, or wouldnt have noticed that the hangar and flight crews were buzzing around prepping for something.

The Supremacy's escort is irrelevant, with or without it doesn't really change anything at all. Personally the escort makes more sense given the importance of the vessel (be real y'all would be complaining about how unrealistic it is that this vessel didn't have an escort otherwise), and I like my Star Wars "big" in terms of the scale of the military forces involved. The idea that the First Order successfully occupied and took control of the galaxy with just a handful of star destroyers which needed to zip around collecting surrender documents is just silly.

Everything else about Holdo being the hacker/spy is just dumb. The idea that Luke dies by Kylos blade in battle is also dumb and even more disrespectful to Lukes character than the gak you've been complaining about. As it stands he died on his own terms doing something meaningful and symbolic that was far more impactful than what would have occurred if he just strode out there like some immortal Achilles and died in a scrap with a wannabe. This is a movie where one of the central themes is an interrogation of the myth of heroic self-sacrifice and martyrdom, your approach is completely anathematic to its message and just honestly awful.

If they had sped up the bombers to Star Wars speeds, there probably wouldn’t have been many complaints, even about the “falling” bombs, because they would have felt more Star Wars.


If TIE bombers puttered like golf carts, people would hate them too.

TIE Bombers are pretty slow in film too. Just not THAT slow.

 LunarSol wrote:
TIE Bombers are pretty slow in film too. Just not THAT slow.

THAT slow is the problem.

The hyperspace ram in 8 was really just an example of a director wanting a big dramatic moment without considering it changes the whole universe and makes the older movies kind of invalid at that point.

The empire builds a deathstar? Ehh, just have a good sized ship hyperspace ram it in the main weapon dish. Why not load the ship up with explosives first? Apparently hyperspace rams ignore shields, or the FOs huge battleship didn't have any.

It's a case of a director with no sense of continuity and not understanding real fans of the series are into continuity ignoring it to make a dramatic moment that kind of just kills the whole series.

of course JJA did this movie, and he whizzed all over trek continuity in his generic scifi action movies with star trek names plastered over them.

Apparently abrams attitude was basically "The damn fans will take what i decide to make and like it!"


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Vulcan wrote:

 StygianBeach wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:

Their use in TPM is pretty emblematic of the prequel's overall abundance of good ideas and inability to get them across. In the film, they're used to justify Qui Gon's faith in Anakin rather than letting Anakin do things that make him worth having faith in. Honestly, if that was Lucas's intent, the Midichlorian test should have been what disqualified Anakin from being found and trained by the Jedi, with Anakin's abilities giving Qui Gon reason to push to train him regardless.

Whoa, I have hated the midichlorian idea since 1999... but that would have been awesome.

Lots of things that went wrong in Star Wars could have been made awesome.

Ewoks were supposed to be wookies. That would have made RotJ make SO much more sense. Ewoks wiping out an Imperial Legion is weird. Wookies doing it would have been awesome.

There is a rumor that the battle of endor was a reference to vietnam. It was about what was perceived as an ignorant, backwards, primitive jungle dwelling people being attacked by a much more advanced imperial military, and the advanced military getting it's collective ass handed to it by these 'primitive" people in jungle guerilla warfare.

Lucas has never confirmed this, and it may be he doesn't want the heat he'd get from people by basically making a battle in which the side presenting the viet cong were the good guys and the advanced invading army representing the americans were the bad guys who got whomped.

So this is a rumor, but it's not an impossible of even ridiculous one. These is one possible hint it's true: The ewoks were short and had buck teeth in general, which was a popular stereotype of the viet cong in the vietnam era. make of that what you will.

 Matt Swain wrote:
The hyperspace ram in 8 was really just an example of a director wanting a big dramatic moment without considering it changes the whole universe and makes the older movies kind of invalid at that point.

The empire builds a deathstar? Ehh, just have a good sized ship hyperspace ram it in the main weapon dish. Why not load the ship up with explosives first? Apparently hyperspace rams ignore shields, or the FOs huge battleship didn't have any.

It's a case of a director with no sense of continuity and not understanding real fans of the series are into continuity ignoring it to make a dramatic moment that kind of just kills the whole series.

of course JJA did this movie, and he whizzed all over trek continuity in his generic scifi action movies with star trek names plastered over them.

Apparently abrams attitude was basically "The damn fans will take what i decide to make and like it!"

Go back a few pages and you'll find detailed explanation about how wrong your take is.

Also the director you're looking for is Rian Johnson, not JJ Abrams.

creeping-deth87 wrote:They are absolutely not great movies. I wouldn't say they're much better than the prequels either. Equally bad, but in very different ways.

Just you're opinion, but they are vastly superior to the prequels, and some of the best sci-fi movies out there.

creeping-deth87 wrote:I'm sorry, but... how? Seriously, how? No civilian fleet showed up to rescue the Rebels so I'm so curious how this connection was made.

GR-75s are unarmed civilian transports, the Rebels commandeered them. And civilians helped the evac in Dunkirk it was still a military operation with the military still doing most of the heavy lifting. And the inspiration of a valiant rear guard holding up a vastly superior, mechanized force till the major backbone of the rebel/allied troops and equipment could flee is still there. As is the fact that if the evac didn't succeed the war would have been pretty much over at that point. As Churchill put it: The whole root and core and brain of the British Army, on which and around which we were to build, and are to build, the great British armies in the later years of the war, seemed about to perish upon the field or to be led into an ignominious and starving captivity. It was the EXACT same situation the Rebels had on Hoth. Their top leaders, and core of their fighting force was on Hoth.

creeping-deth87 wrote:No, it really wasn't. Causes so many continuity issues.

No it doesn't. There's no continuity issues at all.

Matt Swain wrote:.

of course JJA did this movie, and he whizzed all over trek continuity in his generic scifi action movies with star trek names plastered over them.

Apparently abrams attitude was basically "The damn fans will take what i decide to make and like it!"

You mean he saved Trek by making the 3 best films in the entire filmography of the Trek series? Since that's what he did. Because Shatner movies were absolute trash except for Undiscovered Country (which is actually one of my favorite films) and the Patrick Stewart ones were overly long extended tv episodes.

Also one of the most wicked cool uses of a Beastie Boys song in film

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

creeping-deth87 wrote:They are absolutely not great movies. I wouldn't say they're much better than the prequels either. Equally bad, but in very different ways.

Just you're opinion,

This part is true.

but they are vastly superior to the prequels,

This part is arguably true.

and some of the best sci-fi movies out there.

This part is one of the most crazy things I have seen someone say on this forum. Besides the fact that Star Wars is not Sci Fi (It's Fantasy. Science Fiction has Science in it. Putting Fantasy in Space doesn't suddenly give it science. It's also a story about wizards with swords fighting a evil emperor who had his black knight kidnap a princess.). There are insanely good scifi movies out there. 7,8,and 9 don't even exist in the same league let alone win the awards.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

Just you're opinion

You mean kinda like strolling in here and saying the ST are great movies? Yeah, you're right. I guess that is just an opinion. And?

but they are vastly superior to the prequels, and some of the best sci-fi movies out there.

I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. There are way, way better sci fi films than the ST.

GR-75s are unarmed civilian transports, the Rebels commandeered them. And civilians helped the evac in Dunkirk it was still a military operation with the military still doing most of the heavy lifting. And the inspiration of a valiant rear guard holding up a vastly superior, mechanized force till the major backbone of the rebel/allied troops and equipment could flee is still there. As is the fact that if the evac didn't succeed the war would have been pretty much over at that point. As Churchill put it: The whole root and core and brain of the British Army, on which and around which we were to build, and are to build, the great British armies in the later years of the war, seemed about to perish upon the field or to be led into an ignominious and starving captivity. It was the EXACT same situation the Rebels had on Hoth. Their top leaders, and core of their fighting force was on Hoth.

The Rebel transports in the film were owned by the Alliance, they weren't commandeered from anyone. There was no call to the civilian populace for help evacuating Hoth, the Alliance does it all with what it has. There are no local ship captains on Hoth or anywhere nearby that valiantly offer their ships to assist.

The Battle of Hoth is nothing like Dunkirk.

No it doesn't. There's no continuity issues at all.

I think the fact people are still having these arguments years after the film dropped is ample proof that yes, it does cause continuity issues.

 KingmanHighborn wrote:

creeping-deth87 wrote:They are absolutely not great movies. I wouldn't say they're much better than the prequels either. Equally bad, but in very different ways.

Just you're opinion, but they are vastly superior to the prequels, and some of the best sci-fi movies out there.

Then may I point you to the 'we love the sequels' thread, so you're not being disrespectful to the opinions of others in this thread?

creeping-deth87 wrote:I honestly don't even know how to respond to this. There are way, way better sci fi films than the ST.

There's a few, but they certainly belong in the top tier of the best sci fi films ever made. And certainly belong along the side of the OT.

creeping-deth87 wrote:The Rebel transports in the film were owned by the Alliance, they weren't commandeered from anyone. There was no call to the civilian populace for help evacuating Hoth, the Alliance does it all with what it has. There are no local ship captains on Hoth or anywhere nearby that valiantly offer their ships to assist.

The Battle of Hoth is nothing like Dunkirk.

Again the civilian help in Dunkirk was minor. The majority of the evac was done by allied forces. The Battle for Hoth is Dunkirk in space. Both in stakes and actions. And I've explained this clearly already.

Vulcan wrote:Then may I point you to the 'we love the sequels' thread, so you're not being disrespectful to the opinions of others in this thread?

Already posted there. And I've given as much respect as I've received.

 Matt Swain wrote:
Just curious, does anyone on this board have anything good to say about star wars?

The battle of Geonosis is the highlight of my childhood moviegoing experience. Backflipping Yoda was the most badass thing my 9-year-old mind had ever seen. He's old and he's AGILE?! WOAH.

There's a few, but they certainly belong in the top tier of the best sci fi films ever made. And certainly belong along the side of the OT.

They are absolutely not among the best sci fi films ever made. They're creatively bankrupt, designed by committee films.

Again the civilian help in Dunkirk was minor. The majority of the evac was done by allied forces. The Battle for Hoth is Dunkirk in space. Both in stakes and actions. And I've explained this clearly already.

The civilian help was minor? Jesus. You clearly have no idea what the hell you're talking about here. Only the most amateur armchair historian would make a serious comparison between Hoth and Dunkirk.