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Continuing my discussion of rating stuff from the new codex, here's my thoughts on the Relics we have access to:

Blade of Saint Ellynor: A Tier: Allows a Canoness to duke it out with some fairly beefy characters (non-Monster ones, anyways). Really nice on a BR Canoness with their warlord trait.

Brazier of Eternal Flame: F Tier: Braziers are already not very good, and this one's effects are incredibly situational (useless unless you happen to be facing Psykers or Daemons).

Wrath of the Emperor: B Tier: Might not be worth a relic slot, but honestly it's something that could give a Canoness or Palatine the ability to cause some pain from a distance (see discussion above about Beacon of Faith and using Miracle Dice often).

Litanies of Faith: C Tier: Helps mitigate rolling those pesky 1's and 2's for your Miracle Dice, but it's only once per battle round and you could still reroll a 1 into another 1...

Mantle of Ophelia: A Tier: Makes a Canoness absurdly tanky vs. big enemies, but be careful because it doesn't do anything about volumes of smaller attacks.

Triptych of the Macharian Crusade: C Tier: Two of the possible bearers already have a 4++, so that part is only relevant on a Dialogus or Hospitaller. +1 Toughness and reducing the first failed save damage to 0 is a neat trick though.

Book of St. Lucius: A Tier: There are plenty of aura abilities that can make good use of a range increase, so this relic is good on a variety of different characters, depending on the needs of your list.

Iron Surplice of Saint Istaela: A Tier: This is probably an even better "tank item" for a Canoness (or potentially any other Sororitas character) than the Mantle. "Transhuman Physiology" effects are always nice, and a 2+ armor save and an extra wound won't do you any harm either.

The Ecclesiarch's Fury: C Tier: Statwise it's a Blessed Blade that costs nothing (since it replaces a Chainsword), but makes you hit less and wound more. In BR I would take Benificence over this for sure.

Redemption: D Tier: Pretending you're Mortarion and hitting everything in between your character and her target is a cute idea, but in practice it's not really worth it and you won't hit that many targets with only 12" range.

The Sigil Ecclesiasticus: B Tier: Having a single Priest able to know and sing an additional Hymn could be pretty nice in some lists. Probably the only way to make a Preacher able to use a Hymn other than War Hymn.

Blessings of Sebastian Thor: D Tier: As mentioned earlier in the thread, it's probably best used with A Sacred Burden to give different Sacred Rites to a melee unit in a mainly shooty list. Otherwise it doesn't seem very good, as it only affects a single character model.

Simulacrum Sanctorum: B Tier: If you want an Imagifier, especially one in a BR list, strongly consider taking this to get both of the good Tales (skip Stoic of course, it's poop).

Chaplet of Sacrifice: C Tier: All of the Stratagems you can get a free use of are 1 CP, and you probably already spent that to get this relic in the first place. Rerolling hits is nice though, as is shooting/fighting on death. Not sure if it's worth taking or not, will need further study.

Martyrs' Vengeance (Our Martyred Lady): B Tier: Functionally, it's a souped-up Meltagun that can be fired in close combat. Could be fairly interesting if used to gank a character or other tough enemy model while hiding behind some Sacresants or something. If I was going to play OoOML, I would strongly consider taking this.

Casket of Penance (Valourous Heart): C Tier: Another "pretend we're Death Guard" item. You have to be standing way too close to the enemy to make this work, so your opponent will likely just kill the bearer to turn it off. The effect is pretty good, especially if your opponent is some flavor of Chaos.

Benificence (Bloody Rose): A Tier: Turn a Canoness into a murderhobo, albeit doing only 1 damage per swing (but potentially up to 12 swings). Best used vs. hordes, but volume of attacks will threaten some larger stuff as well.

Annunciation of the Creed (Ebon Chalice): F Tier: Just a Condemnor Boltgun that does flat 3 mortal wounds to a Psyker instead of d3. Probably not worth a relic slot.

Quicksilver Veil (Argent Shroud): B Tier: Extra movement speed could be handy, and reducing enemy hit chances against the bearer is nice, but I personally like the Mantle or Iron Surplice better as tank items.

Light of Saint Agnaetha (Sacred Rose): A Tier: This is the only reason to ever take a Brazier of Holy Fire. Basically a Flamer that does mortal wounds instead of regular damage, and even better against Daemons.

We've got some good relics, and some bad ones, but nothing that I feel is truly an auto-include. Which relics you choose will really depend on what your list is doing, and often you will want multiples, hence why I rated the "extra relics" Stratagem as S-tier before. Still to come: my ratings on Order Convictions and Warlord Traits.

While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

We where trying to forget...

I think you might be underrating the Chaplet of Sacrifice. In a Drukhari heavy meta with succubi that kill every character via enoromous numbers of low-damage attacks or by spamming mortal wounds, the protective relics (mantle or surplice) won't increase the survivability of a canoness by much, whereas the chaplet garantees a counterstrike that will probably kill a succubus if paired with blessed blade and e.g. rapturous blows.

Lammia wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

We where trying to forget...

My impression is that it started at S4 and was found to be too strong.

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Tale of the Stoic is a turd sandwich, but for BR the Tale of the Faithful is pretty decent (+1 to advance/charge rolls), and Tale of the Warrior is also handy to have around. So honestly I think the Imagifier is worth it for BR especially. AS can get decent mileage out of Tale of the Faithful as well for getting around the board better.

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Tale of the Stoic is a turd sandwich, but for BR the Tale of the Faithful is pretty decent (+1 to advance/charge rolls), and Tale of the Warrior is also handy to have around. So honestly I think the Imagifier is worth it for BR especially. AS can get decent mileage out of Tale of the Faithful as well for getting around the board better.

Does BR really care for tale of the faithful? I look at it and go "Just take another Repentia Superior or priest

Neither of which help Sacristans get into combat

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Blade of Saint Ellynor: A Tier: Allows a Canoness to duke it out with some fairly beefy characters (non-Monster ones, anyways). Really nice on a BR Canoness with their warlord trait.

Worth noting that this competes with a regular blessed blade + Rapturous Blows. If a blessing is available for your canonness, I would go that way. 25pts vs 1cp, and you have the option of popping the miraculous ability alongside a squad of repentia/zephyrim to max out the mortal wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Tale of the Stoic is a turd sandwich, but for BR the Tale of the Faithful is pretty decent (+1 to advance/charge rolls), and Tale of the Warrior is also handy to have around. So honestly I think the Imagifier is worth it for BR especially. AS can get decent mileage out of Tale of the Faithful as well for getting around the board better.

Does BR really care for tale of the faithful? I look at it and go "Just take another Repentia Superior or priest

Tale of the faithful is actually reroll advance/charge, not +1. That plus a 3d6 drop lowest from the superior is about as solid a charge chance as there is in the game, especially as a way to avoid using miracle dice.

Tale of the warrior pairs with zephyrim nicely as well, but keeping her in range is the issue compared to the repentia slingshot.

dammit wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Blade of Saint Ellynor: A Tier: Allows a Canoness to duke it out with some fairly beefy characters (non-Monster ones, anyways). Really nice on a BR Canoness with their warlord trait.

Worth noting that this competes with a regular blessed blade + Rapturous Blows. If a blessing is available for your canonness, I would go that way. 25pts vs 1cp, and you have the option of popping the miraculous ability alongside a squad of repentia/zephyrim to max out the mortal wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Tale of the Stoic is a turd sandwich, but for BR the Tale of the Faithful is pretty decent (+1 to advance/charge rolls), and Tale of the Warrior is also handy to have around. So honestly I think the Imagifier is worth it for BR especially. AS can get decent mileage out of Tale of the Faithful as well for getting around the board better.

Does BR really care for tale of the faithful? I look at it and go "Just take another Repentia Superior or priest

Tale of the faithful is actually reroll advance/charge, not +1. That plus a 3d6 drop lowest from the superior is about as solid a charge chance as there is in the game, especially as a way to avoid using miracle dice.

Tale of the warrior pairs with zephyrim nicely as well, but keeping her in range is the issue compared to the repentia slingshot.

Repentia slingshot requires the repentia to be on the table for your opponents turn(superior's targeted buff is in the command phase.) It's much less likely to happen than getting Zephyrim in imagifier range.

You put the imagifier in Rhino with 9 celestians they exit together its in aura range.

You can only slingshot 1 repentia unit with a repentia superior You can aura 2 or 3 units with an imagifier that have all been rhinoed

It's also not an either or

just popping in to congratulate Sisters of Battle players on being able to buy the DLC on your codex soon.

Didn't have to wait long

dammit wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

Blade of Saint Ellynor: A Tier: Allows a Canoness to duke it out with some fairly beefy characters (non-Monster ones, anyways). Really nice on a BR Canoness with their warlord trait.

Worth noting that this competes with a regular blessed blade + Rapturous Blows. If a blessing is available for your canonness, I would go that way. 25pts vs 1cp, and you have the option of popping the miraculous ability alongside a squad of repentia/zephyrim to max out the mortal wounds.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Lammia wrote:

 ZergSmasher wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Tale of the Stoic is a turd sandwich, but for BR the Tale of the Faithful is pretty decent (+1 to advance/charge rolls), and Tale of the Warrior is also handy to have around. So honestly I think the Imagifier is worth it for BR especially. AS can get decent mileage out of Tale of the Faithful as well for getting around the board better.

Does BR really care for tale of the faithful? I look at it and go "Just take another Repentia Superior or priest

Tale of the faithful is actually reroll advance/charge, not +1. That plus a 3d6 drop lowest from the superior is about as solid a charge chance as there is in the game, especially as a way to avoid using miracle dice.

Tale of the warrior pairs with zephyrim nicely as well, but keeping her in range is the issue compared to the repentia slingshot.

Good call on the Blade of Ellynor; 25 points is sort of steep, but probably worth it especially since you can also take a non-weapon relic that way (like the Iron Surplice). Also, good catch on the Tale of the Faithful. Not sure why I thought it was the other way especially since I had the codex sitting right there and didn't check it.

We may want to rethink Ebon Chalice and Penitent Engines. There's a list on the Sisters discord that has been doing well against Dark Eldar running AS + an EC Outrider. The Outrider has three units of 5 Seraphim to take advantage of the MW strat and the EC warlord trait. There's also 6 Penitent Engines taken in units of 3.

If people want to see the list, I'll ask for permission before posting it.

Pickled_egg wrote:
just popping in to congratulate Sisters of Battle players on being able to buy the DLC on your codex soon.

Didn't have to wait long

Lol, like I'm going to do that.

ERJAK wrote:
I just realized that the Castigator and the Flag duo are so utterly irrelevant to the army from a tactics/list building standpoint that I completely forgot they haven't been released yet.

That's not a great sign for a product if you ask me.

I'm kind of interested in the flag duo for Crusade and because it's really flavourful to have a war granny in your army, but yeah they're basically superfluous.

 bullyboy wrote:
While we're here, can we just mention the utter crap that Tale of the Stoic is? What in the world was GW thinking with this? I love the imagifier model, but since I'm not playing BR I just can't see the need to include it in my lists at all. If it was S4 or less it would be so worth it, but S3?

Can you imagine spending 50pts on an Imagifier, giving it Tale of the Stoic and thinking you made a good choice?

If I was fighting an IG infantry list it could be useful.

Tale of the Stoics one saving grace is that you pick your tale at the “Start of the Battle” rather than “before the battle”. Still if you put an Imagifier in your army, you probably had a plan better for it other than “let’s see if the enemy has enough S3 attacks” for it.

Spoletta wrote:

Pickled_egg wrote:
just popping in to congratulate Sisters of Battle players on being able to buy the DLC on your codex soon.

Didn't have to wait long

Lol, like I'm going to do that.

Honestly, it's OoML only and nothing on earth is easier to pirate than supplement rules.

My only fear is that they've got a nerfed datasheet for Morvenn before I even get a chance to use her.

If I was fighting an IG infantry list it could be useful.

Or poison-heavy drukhari...

Edit: wouldn't help against poison because of wording... so only against ig...

ERJAK wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Pickled_egg wrote:
just popping in to congratulate Sisters of Battle players on being able to buy the DLC on your codex soon.

Didn't have to wait long

Lol, like I'm going to do that.

Honestly, it's OoML only and nothing on earth is easier to pirate than supplement rules.

My only fear is that they've got a nerfed datasheet for Morvenn before I even get a chance to use her.

Chances are they already have those books printed (around the same time as the actual Sisters codex) and her datasheet will be exactly the same.

I expect her datasheet won’t be in it at all. It’s not like they put Thypus in the other book.

My fear is that the book will have some very good strat for Paragons which will make them competitive, and GW will deem that those suits are fine like that.

ERJAK wrote:

Spoletta wrote:

Pickled_egg wrote:
just popping in to congratulate Sisters of Battle players on being able to buy the DLC on your codex soon.

Didn't have to wait long

Lol, like I'm going to do that.

Honestly, it's OoML only and nothing on earth is easier to pirate than supplement rules.

My only fear is that they've got a nerfed datasheet for Morvenn before I even get a chance to use her.

yeah thats my concern that the rules will all be OoML specific.

Here is the list I was talking about. Credit goes to Lanaya/Ashley Thompson in the Sisters Discord server.

I actually watched one of her games in TTS on Sunday. Things looked super-grim after Vahl caused a raider to blow up, dealing mortals to a number of her units while also letting a large unit of Wyches + an Archon disembark, but she managed to pull of the win.

Taikishi wrote:
Here is the list I was talking about. Credit goes to Lanaya/Ashley Thompson in the Sisters Discord server.

I actually watched one of her games in TTS on Sunday. Things looked super-grim after Vahl caused a raider to blow up, dealing mortals to a number of her units while also letting a large unit of Wyches + an Archon disembark, but she managed to pull of the win.

The only odd bit for me is the Dogmata, I get she's leaning heavy into the mortal wounds but the extra sacred rite is a weird choice for a second prayer to me. Maybe meant for deny the witch help?

Edit because I misread your reply. My bad for reading while doing other things.

The Dogmata is definitely for extra mortals and handing, allowing the Seraphim to shoot and still perform actions, and giving the Sacresants Ob Sec. I'm not entirely sure what she uses the Rite prayer on, but I imagine it's very match-up and situation dependent. Like giving the Seraphim the Passion if she decides to charge with them? I can ask if you'd like

ERJAK wrote:

Taikishi wrote:
Here is the list I was talking about. Credit goes to Lanaya/Ashley Thompson in the Sisters Discord server.

I actually watched one of her games in TTS on Sunday. Things looked super-grim after Vahl caused a raider to blow up, dealing mortals to a number of her units while also letting a large unit of Wyches + an Archon disembark, but she managed to pull of the win.

The only odd bit for me is the Dogmata, I get she's leaning heavy into the mortal wounds but the extra sacred rite is a weird choice for a second prayer to me. Maybe meant for deny the witch help?

The larger squad of sacresants she's accompanying already have sebastian thor. I think the relic is more about being able to try both war hymn and blazing piety than adding a third rite, and the additional hymn is the only one that makes sense for who's going to be nearby.

My comments you quoted still stand, dammit, but I edited my post because I actually misread Erjak's original question. I thought he was talking about the second Rite for her EC pick, not the Rite for her prayer - though War Hymn and Blazing Piety were her most common uses in the TTS game I watched.

Yeah that follows, I didn't pick up that Divine was coming from EC.