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 Sledgehammer wrote:

 the_scotsman wrote:

 Sledgehammer wrote:
Thus far I'm hopeful this version of kill team will be better.

The shapes with colors indicating ranges is somewhat concerning. I'm tired of having to buy proprietary nick-nacks just to play the game. My blast markers are still sitting around unused, and I don't particularly want to buy gauges. Especially when we are uncertain how long this system will be supported and played.

If you can remember what four basic symbols mean, there is no need to buy any gauge and everything can be done with either a tape measure or a stick ruler.

We don't really know what the symbols mean yet. They could be just a simple indication for range, or they could be something more similar to the movement sticks from Xwing. One is going to make it increasingly more likely that you'll need to use proprietary gauges. We just don't know.

We do know. Its plopped in the middle of the article on movement in big bold picture with multiple colors.
black Triangle= 1
white Circle = 2
blue Square = 3
red Pentagon= 6

Kill Team uses a system of four colours with corresponding shapes to represent common distances.

They explicitly represent the same distances every time.
The trapezoid tool has the three shorter measurements (and a useless side), and the stick with the pentagon is 6". That's it. The whole thing.

The Signal guy, laspistols and flamers are all effective at 6", and flamers have a 2" splash. Real guns are infinite (because boards are some value of 'small' and they didn't want to make a bigger or more common measuring tool). Guardsman scurry 2" up to 3 times.

 Flinty wrote:
The new system looks really cool, and has lots of potential for interesting nuance and degrading effects and proper granularity. Some of the mechanics even seem to be growing out of Blackstone Fortress.

Unfortunately I have Necromunda, 1st edition KT, 5 Parsecs, Blackstone Fortress, Zombiecide, Operation Last Train and Stargrave all champing at the bit, and Covid is still pretty restrictive.

I need to retire I think... Anyone got any good horse racing tips?

As I have a similar list, I'm beginning to think the problem is wanting variety. Too many games and too little time. For instance, I like the concept of the Mythic Americas mini game by Warlord, but I don't yet another mini game. Ignoring the latest version of KT will simplify matters and save money. However, we'll see what happens once the core is sold separately ...

Voss wrote:
That's it. The whole thing.

Pedantic much? These rules previews rarely ever spell out the full details of anything, they're just snippets of information. 100% possible (and quite likely) the snippet they fed us on this only covered the part relevant to movement distance and ignored everything else. I mean, the same article outright stated, and doth I quote:

As operatives are injured or affected by special conditions, their movement values will increase or decrease – this new system makes modifying their characteristics a snap.

On that basis alone, you're incorrect. Thats NOT it. Thats NOT the whole thing. There is *clearly* still more to be discussed on that topic.

 Ancestral Hamster wrote:

 Flinty wrote:
The new system looks really cool, and has lots of potential for interesting nuance and degrading effects and proper granularity. Some of the mechanics even seem to be growing out of Blackstone Fortress.

Unfortunately I have Necromunda, 1st edition KT, 5 Parsecs, Blackstone Fortress, Zombiecide, Operation Last Train and Stargrave all champing at the bit, and Covid is still pretty restrictive.

I need to retire I think... Anyone got any good horse racing tips?

As I have a similar list, I'm beginning to think the problem is wanting variety. Too many games and too little time. For instance, I like the concept of the Mythic Americas mini game by Warlord, but I don't yet another mini game. Ignoring the latest version of KT will simplify matters and save money. However, we'll see what happens once the core is sold separately ...

Historic and Fantasy are my main jams. For SciFi I like the Krieg models, 5 Parsecs rules, and Stargrave too so KT is no longer necessary, just the models.

Edit: I am extremely happy about the Krieg models and am enjoying joking about a traditionally bad rules company, but not complaining about what I am not buying. Nothing but salted joy here!

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So bets on how long before we get Aeldari Outcasts, Vanguard Organisms, and Brood Brothers Kill-Team sets?

Hopefully not too long of a wait. My Tyranid Kill Team was 4 Lictors. Hoping I can still run them.

I would assume so, even if we get a Vanguard Organisms setup.

Worth mentioning though that the "factions" breakdown has Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos as their own factions. While Greenskins still get access to "Clan Kommandos"(the photo there uses the metal/resin Kommandos rather than the new plastics), Veteran Guardsmen are not listed under Astra Militarum.

If I had to make a wild ballpark guess for what factions might see further treatments?
Vanguard Organisms to bring out a new Lictor brood set.
Brood Brothers, since the GSC are weirdly called out as "Brood Covens" rather than just "Genestealer Cultists".
Aeldari Outcasts, bringing in Corsairs.

chaos0xomega wrote:

I really do feel like there are two types of people out there.

Surely you mean "◯ types of people!"

 NephMakes wrote:
One of the new stats is Action Point Limit (APL). So perhaps each side will have a limited number of action points to spend. Spamming cheap bodies is less useful when you can't use them all.

APL seems to imply that different dudes can do more or less, depending on APL.

There doesn’t seem to be anything stopping some weapons having a range of 2 pentagram for example, so there’s still scope for medium range weaponry to be implemented in this way. Whether GW do or not is a different question ofc

 Tokhuah wrote:
Is the keyword " Torrent" used for Kreig flamer rules a word generally templated across model ranges? For example, if a SoB or Orc wields a flamethrower with a parallel ability will it be listed as "Torrent" or will it be different terminology?

Based on the design it seems likely that all flamers will be torrent regardless of faction.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Voss wrote:
The Signal guy, laspistols and flamers are all effective at 6", and flamers have a 2" splash. Real guns are infinite (because boards are some value of 'small' and they didn't want to make a bigger or more common measuring tool). Guardsman scurry 2" up to 3 times.

Another thought - there isn't going to be any across the table measuring. Everything looks like it will happen in the immediate vicinity of the model itself. I kind of like that.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Crimson wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

I really do feel like there are two types of people out there.

Surely you mean "◯ types of people!"

Automatically Appended Next Post:

MaxT wrote:
There doesn’t seem to be anything stopping some weapons having a range of 2 pentagram for example, so there’s still scope for medium range weaponry to be implemented in this way. Whether GW do or not is a different question ofc

Maybe guns like meltas will just have fewer shots? Could go either way.

Nevermind. Only 2 factions in starter core book is the answer. Compendium book to follow with all factions after the starter.

 Kanluwen wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So bets on how long before we get Aeldari Outcasts, Vanguard Organisms, and Brood Brothers Kill-Team sets?

Hopefully not too long of a wait. My Tyranid Kill Team was 4 Lictors. Hoping I can still run them.

I would assume so, even if we get a Vanguard Organisms setup.

Worth mentioning though that the "factions" breakdown has Veteran Guardsmen and Kommandos as their own factions. While Greenskins still get access to "Clan Kommandos"(the photo there uses the metal/resin Kommandos rather than the new plastics), Veteran Guardsmen are not listed under Astra Militarum.

If I had to make a wild ballpark guess for what factions might see further treatments?
Vanguard Organisms to bring out a new Lictor brood set.
Brood Brothers, since the GSC are weirdly called out as "Brood Covens" rather than just "Genestealer Cultists".
Aeldari Outcasts, bringing in Corsairs.

My reckoning would be that the Eldar rumour engine we saw some time ago will be a ranger kill team.

 Crimson wrote:
Surely you mean "◯ types of people!"

This is GW's true genius, the memes are going to be so rampant that no one will ever forget which symbol means what

But yeah, it doesn't seem like there's any further depth to the symbol system given they've cast rulers with the symbols embedded into them, doesn't look like the symbols themselves will be dynamic.

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Know what shapes are more intuitive?
Numbers.

Not if you're also trying to degrade movement as damage is inflicted. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the way the damage seems to degrade in nuKT is actually pretty complex and not something you could easily write out in an understandable rule. The question becomes, is that stat reduction model superior to one which simply says "-1" of movement per point of damage" or whatever. On top of that, the symbols could correlate to terrain interactions as well - if you were just using numbers you would then need a completely separate stat to do what they are currently doing.

Explain to me how any of the above would have been prevented if instead of 3-◯ the rules would have said 3-2.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I really do feel like there are two types of people out there.

People who look at these symbols and go "NuMbAhS aRe AlReAdY iNtUiTiVe EnUfF!!!"

and

People who look at these symbols and immediately go "Oh man, this is fething brilliant,"

I really do feel like there are some people here really keen on misinterpret a side. And what better way than ridiculing them, am I right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Resting One wrote:


Nevermind. Only 2 factions in starter core book is the answer. Compendium book to follow with all factions after the starter.

Oh really. Wow, that makes the starter set pretty useful >_>.

 Albertorius wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 Albertorius wrote:

Know what shapes are more intuitive?
Numbers.

Not if you're also trying to degrade movement as damage is inflicted. As has been pointed out elsewhere, the way the damage seems to degrade in nuKT is actually pretty complex and not something you could easily write out in an understandable rule. The question becomes, is that stat reduction model superior to one which simply says "-1" of movement per point of damage" or whatever. On top of that, the symbols could correlate to terrain interactions as well - if you were just using numbers you would then need a completely separate stat to do what they are currently doing.

Explain to me how any of the above would have been prevented if instead of 3-◯ the rules would have said 3-2.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I really do feel like there are two types of people out there.

People who look at these symbols and go "NuMbAhS aRe AlReAdY iNtUiTiVe EnUfF!!!"

and

People who look at these symbols and immediately go "Oh man, this is fething brilliant,"

I really do feel like there are some people here really keen on misinterpret a side. And what better way than ridiculing them, am I right?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Resting One wrote:


Nevermind. Only 2 factions in starter core book is the answer. Compendium book to follow with all factions after the starter.

Oh really. Wow, that makes the starter set pretty useful >_>.

All GW starters are like that, dexes sold separately. If you don't like it, just buy the rulebooks & dexes separately

Is it allready known if the new edition will also contain rules/stats for other factions, like the old KT?
Or will this be "buy this mini expansion with propritary cards and rules for faction X to use them"?

chaos0xomega wrote:

I really do feel like there are two types of people out there.

3, the third looks at the rules and thinks: I can see the idea behind or were they copied it, but the execution is poor and/or they do not understand why this is used in the first place

the whole controversy of why using Circle instead of 2" is there because GW made a big picture to advertise it
and with that it burned inside peoples minds that the numbers are still there, because they is there for us to know, so it must be important and we need the 2 systems of symbols and numbers (and I would not be surprised if we end up with needing the tape measure for deployment zones or objective placement and and that other factions come with rules that need different ranges)

measurement tools with fixed ranges are there to remove the problem of imperial VS metric, ease of use for ranges in the game, speed up gameplay
here, they told us the numbers so imperial VS metric is not solved because everyone know they are meant to be Inch and will have those in mind (and might even start converting them in his mind automatically from Symbol to Inch to Metric, just because he knows them instead of thinking in Short, Medium, Long Range)

how easy they are to use depends on the final rules, but from what we have seen it looks like it is more complicated and very fiddly as small Skirmish games are usually with lot of terrain in 3D and laying a 2" stick 3 times on the model to move it can be tricky (guess they thought about 2D and a board that has never more terrain than on than shown on the promo pictures)

and if the movement is really how most expect it (as 3 times Circle instead of anywhere within Pentagon makes only sense if it is base front to base back with exact movements like 1 Circle straight, 1 Circle up, 1 circle straight), there it is more time consuming

chaos0xomega wrote:

Ranges seem to be infinite with the exception of pistols and short range weapons that only shoot (Pentagon). Seems weird that there aren't any weapons that have a range greater than that but less than the full length of the table, but I suppose the 22" x whatever" board size for kill team probably isn't big enough for medium range weapons to really matter anyway.

well, just by looking at the weapons in 40k we have and had and 24" being the "standard" range I can see were they are coming from
yet there are a lot of weapons with 12" or were full and half range made a difference (in the past) and with a 22" board assuming that 24" will have everything in range anyway, means (again) the game is modeled with 2D in mind instead of 3D

 Garfield666 wrote:
Is it allready known if the new edition will also contain rules/stats for other factions, like the old KT?
Or will this be "buy this mini expansion with propritary cards and rules for faction X to use them"?

I believe they said on the stream that the rulebook will contain the Veteran Guardsmen and Ork Kommandos faction rules, and a separate book will have everyone else.

SamusDrake wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:
So bets on how long before we get Aeldari Outcasts, Vanguard Organisms, and Brood Brothers Kill-Team sets?

Well, this is the thing. We spent all of the last edition waiting for a Craftworld faction set and yet were excluded from the fun despite a mid term release of the 40K plastic Howling Banshees.

There is no sugar coating it that this edition has a lot of catching up to do and win back players...

I already think it’s a better system, even with the anoying symble range rules, I think it’s more about if GW can stuff up a good thing from now

I also see that the distances at least from someone who has talked with devs, are effected by terrain movement at each increment. So IG going though Forrest or ruins are SLOW losing half their movement. Why Eldar only lose 1/3 due to different movement increments. So it does have a purpose.
But it could have just been 2/2/2 and been the same most likely.

For those fearing the new Krieg soldiers are on a different base than 25 mm, fear not :



Given the difference in size between orks and krieg and the general height of the miniatures, can tell the base of Krieg miniatures is 25 mm (too small for 28 mm while the orks are 32).

 tauist wrote:
All GW starters are like that, dexes sold separately. If you don't like it, just buy the rulebooks & dexes separately

Yeah, that's what I was planning to do, if the game looks interesting enough

Guy on the left has a stopwatch?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Guy on the left has a stopwatch?

Just making them more efficient at dying for the Emperor?

Are those steps and the mural with the robed dude with flames part of a new upcoming terrain piece or did I miss a release somewhere?

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Guy on the left has a stopwatch?

Yes, the stopwatch bit being onboard was mentioned in the reveal stream. Remains to be seen if it grants some sort of ability for the model..

 Redemption wrote:
Are those steps and the mural with the robed dude with flames part of a new upcoming terrain piece or did I miss a release somewhere?

Spoiler:

 Albertorius wrote:

 tauist wrote:
All GW starters are like that, dexes sold separately. If you don't like it, just buy the rulebooks & dexes separately

Yeah, that's what I was planning to do, if the game looks interesting enough

I haven't yet made up my mind about which way to go myself. If the box comes with a big enough discount, I'll probably go for it, but if the price is on the high side, I'll just get the rulebook and Compendium + cards separately and snag up the separate DKoK kit later. HH launch box is coming in November and I might want to save some moneys, because that one I'll be getting for sure.

Not so much into Orks nor the orky terrain, although I'd imagine I could de-orkify it with some sawing & cutting. But my backlog already has the Mekboy workshop to de-orkify (to make it fit better with the STC ruins kit I've got) so dunno when I'd get around to it hehehe

 tauist wrote:

 lord_blackfang wrote:
Guy on the left has a stopwatch?

Yes, the stopwatch bit being onboard was mentioned in the reveal stream. Remains to be seen if it grants some sort of ability for the model..

Probably, but im not overly bothered, it may just be to fit in with a particular archetype like the zealot type guy with the mini aquila hanging from parchment/hymns sheet/relic. Rules change, cool models always remain

So we're clear:
The Octarius manual is what had the Veteran Guardsmen/Kommando rules in it on the stream.



They made it sound like the Compendium was going to feature the add-ons condensed into one spot.

That picture shows very nicely whats inside. I somehow missed it.
Good to see that the cards seem to be general tactical cards, like with the old KT. I feared they would implement some card mechanic where you have to buy faction specific cards to be able to play at all...

The gauges and symbols can be worked around also. I just use a regular tapemeasure, but erase all the numbers and replace them with the official symbols and multiples thereof. Should work fine.

So... tomorrow is the day of prices and limited availability, right?

 Garfield666 wrote:
So... tomorrow is the day of prices and limited availability, right?

More like a month from tomorrow.