Forum adverts like this one are shown to any user who is not logged in. Join us by filling out a tiny 3 field form and you will get your own, free, dakka user account which gives a good range of benefits to you:
No adverts like this in the forums anymore.
Times and dates in your local timezone.
Full tracking of what you have read so you can skip to your first unread post, easily see what has changed since you last logged in, and easily see what is new at a glance.
Email notifications for threads you want to watch closely.
Being a part of the oldest wargaming community on the net.
If you are already a member then feel free to login now.
Given these rules previews, I won't be surprised if the KT box shows up in the Sunday pre-order preview this week.
The last strat in that article. The one that lets you dash in the strategy phase; does that extra dash actually mean you can dash twice in a turn as the article implies?
Yes, a lot of factions have similar strategic ploys. Be aware though, that this is not in combination with Aeldari Agility, because that one only triggers during activation
So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
This message was edited 5 times. Last update was at 2022/03/05 11:01:05
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/05 15:10:12
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
Only in the missions where objectives can be carried though. In missions where objectives cannot be carried, the restriction does not apply.
But are you sure one cannot dash and charge in the same activation? I have always thought dash + charge is a valid move, since move + dash is.. If you are correct, that reduces possible monement to BLUE+4xWHITE, which does sound much more reasonable though..
Ahh, I see now that you are right and I have been playing this one wrong the entire time! charge indeed cannot be combined with any other movement action (including move, dash & fall back) which occurs within an operative's activation, therefore max charge distance of a Corsair will be 11". But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible? Even this would give fusion pistols an 18" threat range (3xRED for yall KT21 heads) while the strat is active..
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Mr_Rose wrote: We haven’t seen their defensive stats have we?
Being glass cannon (5 or 6 wounds) could be the balance lever on their ridiculous movement.
They could even be 7 wounds and it wouldn't help BLACK bit against CSM, who are usually rocking bolters.. It is doubtful the Corsairs will have a good save, and almost certain their DF will be 3 like everyone else. They will have some sort of protective aura operative though, so staying alive after leaving themselves exposed will probably require synergy play with this aura ability.
This message was edited 10 times. Last update was at 2022/03/05 18:19:43
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible?
You cannot Charge and Dash in the same Activation. Any movement during another phase is not during an Activation, so we are good to go here.
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
I think Poxwalkers exist to be in the way. Nothing else.
Well, if anything, Corsairs will be quite flexible as a team. They got a sniper, deep striking melee specialist, defensive aura op, psyker, spotter (the guy with the falcon), and who knows what else.. Starting to sound like a team which can take on all comers with a skilled player at the helms, without even needing to swap out operatives from the roster for every opponent.
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
Nope. There are multiple reasons why you would want the holster facing that way even for off hand (for a very big one, because it makes drawing the sword vastly more practical, and was in fact preferred cavalrymen way of holstering weapons for hundreds of years), and equally multiple techniques to draw it (see demonstrations here):
I like how GW is constantly criticized for being unrealistic, but recently, it seems the stuff that gets endlessly complained about and criticized the most is how real life armed forces actually do/design stuff, funnily enough
Can it be done? Sure. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. Is it normal. No way. As someone with 10+ years experience in the infantry and combat police, and 30ish years of regular shooting, this is not the way anyone carries a handgun on a regular basis. Even the article you provided was about drawing weak handed if you have to, not as a normal carry.
As far as complaining or criticizing, it was a minor thing that was pointed out. No one said it was a bad model, or that it was unrealistic. We were just poking fun. I happen to actually love the models, and was more just frustrated that damn near every mellee weapon is carried in the left hand. And as there is no scabbard for his sword, we have no idea how he draws it. The is plenty of fluff talking about mag clamping it to the leg, back, or even the power pack. But most importantly, pointing out what we don't like about a model is just as valid as pointing out what we do like.
But aside from that, I did like the article. Thanks for posting it.
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
DR:80SGMB--I--Pw40k01#-D++++A+/fWD-R++T(T)DM+
It's perfectly normal to have a gun on the other side of the body from the hand that will use it... but then the holster is the other way around (cross draw holster). They way that's put is for using the gun with the left hand.
Nope. There are multiple reasons why you would want the holster facing that way even for off hand (for a very big one, because it makes drawing the sword vastly more practical, and was in fact preferred cavalrymen way of holstering weapons for hundreds of years), and equally multiple techniques to draw it (see demonstrations here):
I like how GW is constantly criticized for being unrealistic, but recently, it seems the stuff that gets endlessly complained about and criticized the most is how real life armed forces actually do/design stuff, funnily enough
Can it be done? Sure. Is it the best way? Absolutely not. Is it normal. No way. As someone with 10+ years experience in the infantry and combat police, and 30ish years of regular shooting, this is not the way anyone carries a handgun on a regular basis. Even the article you provided was about drawing weak handed if you have to, not as a normal carry.
As far as complaining or criticizing, it was a minor thing that was pointed out. No one said it was a bad model, or that it was unrealistic. We were just poking fun. I happen to actually love the models, and was more just frustrated that damn near every mellee weapon is carried in the left hand. And as there is no scabbard for his sword, we have no idea how he draws it. The is plenty of fluff talking about mag clamping it to the leg, back, or even the power pack. But most importantly, pointing out what we don't like about a model is just as valid as pointing out what we do like.
But aside from that, I did like the article. Thanks for posting it.
I think Irbis is referring specifically to the cavalry draw in the article, which was normal in conjunction with a sword on the other hip. It looks to be a method of carry designed to allow the pistol to be drawn easily by either hand.
ChargerIIC wrote: If algae farm paste with a little bit of your grandfather in it isn't Grimdark I don't know what is.
Only just now noticed a WHC article on Corsairs for 40K. Says that the troops version of Corsairs come equipped with shuriken pistols and power swords, so am quite sure this loadout will be an alternative buld option for most models in the kit, just like you can make Veteran Guardsmen all have lasguns. Summa summarum, I'd wager that one will need to buy two kits for all the options, or rather, buying the Nachmund box when it releases and then also buying a separate kit when released some 6 months later.
OTOH, considering how accurately ebay sellers estimate their prices, it's probably just the same buying the corsairs individually from split box sellers. I remember when Octarius launched, was thinking to myself it'd be better to wait for the DKoK kit to be released separately from GW, as I foolishly presumed the ofcGW kit would be more affordable than buying split content from ebay — turned out I was wrong and the split ebay prices were almost an exact match to GW's retail price 6 months later!
Less than 12 hours to go for "Next week in Warhammer".. It's coming!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/03/06 06:34:22
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
tauist wrote: So if one uses this strategic ploy and intends to charge into combat, they can make a Corsair operative move up to BLUE+BLUE+4xWHITE = 14 inches to yall not fluent in KT21 language? This is assuming a strat phase free dash, followed by an activation of a free dash, followed by a charge? And still leaving 1AP for either fusion pistoling at point blank range (like some Corsairs will supposedly be able to do) or for a regular fight action?
If my calculations/assumptions turn out correct, Corsairs are goIng to be insane.. Keep em moving to positions in conceal, then massacre everybody within 14" in a single turning point, assuming they have under 8-9 wounds?
No wonder there isn't a lot of obscuring terrain in the Nachmund box I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone?
Chaos legionnaires are a good choice of opponent for the Corsairs, as they have enough wounds to not go down in a single attack, leaving them with some chance to fight back. Against something like guardsmen, balance would be totally different.
No, you can't make a dash during the same phase and charge. You can dash in the strategic phase and then charge during activation phase though. Note that your strategic phase dash needs to go straight towards the next objective though.
Only in the missions where objectives can be carried though. In missions where objectives cannot be carried, the restriction does not apply.
But are you sure one cannot dash and charge in the same activation? I have always thought dash + charge is a valid move, since move + dash is.. If you are correct, that reduces possible monement to BLUE+4xWHITE, which does sound much more reasonable though..
Ahh, I see now that you are right and I have been playing this one wrong the entire time! charge indeed cannot be combined with any other movement action (including move, dash & fall back) which occurs within an operative's activation, therefore max charge distance of a Corsair will be 11". But I'm then wondering what happens if a Corsair does a strat phase dash, activates and moves, dashes, and shoots? This would get them to move 2xBLUE+3xWHITE, an inch further.. This should be possible? Even this would give fusion pistols an 18" threat range (3xRED for yall KT21 heads) while the strat is active..
Being unable to dash+charge makes poxwalkers pathetically useless btw..
Careful, RAW: It just says that the marker is not being carried, an objective marker that can not be carried is also not being carried. RAI: The rule is called plunderers, that makes it objective centric.
I would still argue that you have to move towards the nearest marker.
Considering dash, easiest to remember is: you can only dash and move regularly. And you can only move, or fall back or charge. If you want to combine beyond that, you need a special rule. Also don't forget that free actions are still limited, the only advantage is that they are AP 0 costwise. Hence a free dash is only really useful for shooting models, I haven't run genestealers since I figured that out. Gaunts are 100% more useful. But yes, with pistol models, that can be quite effective.
Poxwalkers main disadvantage is their short range and that they can't do actions. They are not useless though, they can pretty much saturate a zone and can tank a lot of damage. Combined with 3 Plague Marines it is fairly strong, even for a Compendium list. Hence I am surprised the CSM team is not 3 CSM + 5 Renegades. A missed opportunity in my opinion. 5-6 Marine lists have big disadvantage when it comes to area control.
Regarding terrain, always fill up the alleys and deplyoment zones that the missions define with low level hard/soft terrain. The standard missions are shooting galaries and highly disfavor CC teams. With more pipes/crates/barrels to hide, the game is a lot more interesting and still not unbalanced, because you can shoot from higher ground. The reason that the standard missions are so gakky laid out is, that it only includes the supplied terrain. That is mission design with an armed tied behind your back. If you need such terain, we found the Containers from GW good. They come with lots of ammo crates and barrels. Plus you can build the containers as tunnels or hideouts.
The Eldar versus Chaos box is up for pre-order next week. Also Novitiates, Pathfinders, rules and terrain from the previous box will be released separately.
tauist wrote: Only just now noticed a WHC article on Corsairs for 40K. Says that the troops version of Corsairs come equipped with shuriken pistols and power swords, so am quite sure this loadout will be an alternative buld option for most models in the kit, just like you can make Veteran Guardsmen all have lasguns.
I think we've seen the generic 40k version, in the pic of the corsairs with all Dark Eldar helmets fighting alongside Yvraine.
Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left.
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
Those are the Shuriken Rifles, not Catapults.
My bad, I didn't know such a weapon even existed. My codex hasn't arrived yet. Either way, the question remains valid. Is there an option to build the models with Shuriken Pistols and Power Swords in addition to what we have already seen?
That place is the harsh dark future far left with only war left.
jullevi wrote: Those are armed with Shuriken Catapults. The article says Shuriken Pistols and Aeldari Power Swords. I wonder if there is a third build for each model?
Those are the Shuriken Rifles, not Catapults.
My bad, I didn't know such a weapon even existed. My codex hasn't arrived yet. Either way, the question remains valid. Is there an option to build the models with Shuriken Pistols and Power Swords in addition to what we have already seen?
Almost certainly. The Codex unit entry defaults to pistol and power sword with the option to replace both with the rifle. The Voidscarred are the same but they get extra ‘character’ options. Both have the same special and heavy weapon options but the voidscarred can additionally take a ranger rifle, a fusion pistol, and a bird.
No idea why the fusion pistol replaces a sword instead of the model’s shuriken pistol though…
Anyway the point is that the rifles are the “upgrade” option and not the default equipment and it would be very silly to release a unit without the ability to have at least some of them carry their basic gear. Not that I will rule it out 100% but…
"Three months? I'm going to go crazy …and I'm taking you with me!"
— Vala Mal Doran
Voidscarred(the Elite version which is also effectively the Kill Team) are the only ones IIRC that get the option to upgrade a model to the Fusion Pistol+Shuriken Pistol...allowing for you to not feel slighted by building the Starstorm Duellist for KT.
This includes a new Balance Dataslate. Some fireteams (SM, GK, CW, DG sometimes) can take 1 more warrior. And Necron get free reanimation protocol tactival ploy.
I'm guessing Corsairs will be available separately for 45€ around Q2 when the next KT box hits preorder. After the price hike of today, bespoke team kits will be 45€ and old kits + upgrade sprue will be 42.50€
The balance dataslate seems like a sloppy take tbh. They should have just updated the FAQs instead. Yay, one more document to keep track of..
At least pathfinders finally got hit by the nerfbat. Maybe people will be playing them again.
All marines except Scouts and Firstborn getting one extra model makes DW easily the best Astartes team now. I think I also want to try running 5 Heavy Interecessors sometime..
I feel a bit bummed by the regular AdMech team getting legended. I was planning to make a Sicarian heavy team one day.. Now I'll only be able to field 4 Sicarians at the most, grrr!
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2022/03/07 14:12:11
"The larger point though, is that as players, we have more control over what the game looks and feels like than most of us are willing to use in order to solve our own problems"
Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
Nice to see the balance dataslate though. The adjustments are small but meaningful. Giving Space Marines another body for most of their squads is pretty nice, since they were really struggling.
drbored wrote: Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
I care a great deal about terrain, but the terrain in there ain't the greatest terrain. There are no walkways and no domes. Even a single Generator would give them a nice objective to fight over. It's one stack, a pair of furnaces and a bunch of pipes, and two little plasma Regulators.
They've taken one of the few remaining sets of modular terrain GW sells and managed to present it in its lease modular fashion.
drbored wrote: Glancing at the terrain that comes in Nachmund, there's over 230 dollars worth of terrain in there, but if you don't care about the terrain, then the box will definitely seem overpriced.
I care a great deal about terrain, but the terrain in there ain't the greatest terrain. There are no walkways and no domes. Even a single Generator would give them a nice objective to fight over. It's one stack, a pair of furnaces and a bunch of pipes, and two little plasma Regulators.
They've taken one of the few remaining sets of modular terrain GW sells and managed to present it in its lease modular fashion.
this is true, and certainly annoying, but instead I'm looking at the terrain I got from Chalnath and wondering 'How can I combine these two?'
I can see Corsairs absolutely dominating a terrain heavy board with lots of heavy/obscuring terrain. Chalnath missions with Corsairs team, anyone? 
"Because the Wolves kill cleanly, and we do not. They also kill quickly, and we have never done that, either. They fight, they win, and they stalk back to their ships with their tails held high. If they were ever ordered to destroy another Legion, they would do it by hurling warrior against warrior, seeking to grind their enemies down with the admirable delusions of the 'noble savage'. If we were ever ordered to assault another Legion, we would virus bomb their recruitment worlds; slaughter their serfs and slaves; poison their gene-seed repositories and spend the next dozen decades watching them die slow, humiliating deaths. Night after night, raid after raid, we'd overwhelm stragglers from their fleets and bleach their skulls to hang from our armour, until none remained. But that isn't the quick execution the Emperor needs, is it? The Wolves go for the throat. We go for the eyes. Then the tongue. Then the hands. Then the feet. Then we skin the crippled remains, and offer it up as an example to any still bearing witness. The Wolves were warriors before they became soldiers. We were murderers first, last, and always!" —Jago Sevatarion
