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I should hope cheaper.
Dropping rulebook and extra paraphernalia, then gaining one upgrade sprue (other terrain sprue numbers the same right?)

So it was £130 vs £110?
Sound about right.
Not bad from a third party either..

Danny76 wrote:
I should hope cheaper.
Dropping rulebook and extra paraphernalia, then gaining one upgrade sprue (other terrain sprue numbers the same right?)

Shadowvaults has the same amount of walls and pillars but one sprue of (new) accessories instead two.

I wonder how the new models will fit into the necron codex? I could see the Apprentek being to a Cryptek what a lord is to an overlord. However, how is the despotek going to fit in? A unit upgrade for a unit of immortals or deathmarks? What role will it fill?

Will the plasmacytes be useable with units other than destroyers?

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
Same, I bought 2x copies of into the dark. I will buy the Karskin separately when they are released and await the next set incase of different terrain.

With the terrain being sold separately anyway it's not rush on any future box to buy unless the terrain is truly unique.

Yeah I debated getting two boxes of the intro set, glad I didn't.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/11/our-operatives-have-secured-images-of-the-new-kill-team-sprues/

I might be going mad but I can't see how you can build 6 guys with 5 pairs of legs unless I've missed something?

Hm, indeed there do not seem to be any legs for the Apprentek on the upgrade sprue.

The Kasrkin rebreathers appear to be seperate pieces, with 12 per 10.

Answer:

Weak.

Would be hilarious if it turns out you're a guy short of a legal team.

Not a great angle on the 'cough please' Apprentek, given the colour scheme; I was squinting to see where his left arm was.

The Kasrkin sprues at first glance seem great. The Necron one is the most weirdly specific of these additional sprues we’ve seen.

It's a bit weird that they prioritised the massive tactical rock for a plasmacyte over an extra set of legs - looks like the legs is the only piece needed for the Apprentek.

Any bets on whether the necron team get 40k rules updates or not? Seems feasible that it's a counts as HQ box with 2 crypteks and a royal warden plus spare parts.

The WarCom simply erred in posting a pic of the Necron team containing 4 deathmarks. The team is an elite, 6 model team plus 2 pets.

The question remains what the force composition looks like. Can one freely choose between deathmarks and gauss/tesla immortals? Can one go to 8 immortal/deathmarks if one eschews the technomancer/apprentek?

Imagine wasting THAT much sprue space for a god awful giant piece of rubble for the base of one of the plasmacyte instead of using it to add more heads and doodads to upgrade the immortals/deathmarks.
Hell they could have used that space to slap a new special heavy weapon option in there which would have been nice, but naaaah.

That also makes the fact that they intentionally went out of their way to NOT include legs for the apprentek (what and AWFUL name) so you are forced to sacrifice another mini (yes I know, you can model it yourself, that's not the point) even more insulting, there was clearly enough space to add it, but they decided not to, god forbid that kit would give you an extra miniature!

On the bright side, at least said giant rubble isn't directly molded with the plasmacyte so it shouldn't be too hard to pose it without it (because god forbid you don't want to base your army with imperial ruin as GW decided you should).

Also funnily enough that upgrade sprue seems to be a perfect replacement (for the now strangely OOP) Lokhust destroyer lord kit.
Take the apprentek arms and the despotek (thos names.... jeezuz GW) torso and head and you get a way better looking destroyer lord than what the old kit could have given you.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Necronmaniac05 wrote:
I wonder how the new models will fit into the necron codex? I could see the Apprentek being to a Cryptek what a lord is to an overlord. However, how is the despotek going to fit in? A unit upgrade for a unit of immortals or deathmarks? What role will it fill?

Will the plasmacytes be useable with units other than destroyers?

2 possibilities here:

The most likely, they go the same (stupid) way they went with the Chaos Marines and have the despotek and apprentek be 2 new "upgrade" for the unit, one being a mini cryptek and the other being a mini royal warden.
My guess on what they do would be a squad FNP for the cryptek and a squad reroll for another mobilty/damage buff for the despotek.

The thing is, there's also 2 different Plasmacyte comming with that kid, by their name its pretty clear that one give a reanimation protocol bonus and the other give a move bonus. These 2 could also be added as additional options, but at this point it starts to make the unit strangely... option heavy for a necron unit.

The other option, which is way less likely, is that the Apprentek will be its own new unit and the plasmacytes will be options for him. They could either make him a cheaper technomancer without options and the access to the Arkana, or maybe they realized that the miniature that was supposed to be the Technomancer with controle nod got miss used as last year's anniversary so they are going to make him that thing.

But the fact that they intentionally went out of their way to not give him his own legs, thus directly tying him to the immortal unit makes me think he will 100% be a new upgrade for them the same way the balefire tome is now an option for the legionaries.

Or they'll go the Novitiates route, and there won't be rules for any of the specialists in the basic 40K unit.

The more I think about it, the more an idea of doing Vet Guard vs Karskin fights in KT21 appeals to me. Has a Necromundish vibe to it.

If I remove most of the aquilas, these two teams can even represent generic human army soldiers from made up factions (or ex Imperial worlds gone independent). This fits in beautifully with my headcanon, which includes plenty of non-Imperial worlds, existing independently from the IoM.

 Lord Damocles wrote:
Or they'll go the Novitiates route, and there won't be rules for any of the specialists in the basic 40K unit.

True, but outside of the Corsaires all the KT new kits, especially the upgrade ones, ended up being a way for GW to fluff up a bit the datasheet of existing units.

The Corsairs were clearly a test run to see how they could bring specialist from TK to 40k, and its pretty clear that they realized having them as awkward addon to a unit wasn't the best idea ever so they shifted to a simpler model where the specialist that are represented with a specific piece of gear would just end up as a new wargear option (like the bale fire tome, which I'm surprised wasn't bundled with the daemon blade ngl).
I wouldn't be surprised if in 10th they'll revise the corsair to remove all the specialists and (HOPEFULLY) make them HQ instead.

As for the Necrons in question, while I'm incredibly disappointed by how bad (and intentionally) GW missed the mark with that upgrade kit, they literally just had to remove that awful giant metal beam and replace it with a pair of legs for the Apprentek (watch me greenstuff some Plasmamancer style tentacle legs for that guy GW), I still have some hope good things will come out of it for the necrons.

I wouldn't be surprised if the Despotek ended up not making the cut for 40k (an optional sergeant would be nice, but I wont lose sleep over it), same for the deathmark's heads (and god knows the poof lads need help), I don't think GW won't do anything with that Apprentek.

Since he is sadly definitely tied to the unit (because legs), he will obviously end up as a unit upgrade, replacing its gun with a Staff of Light (which has, funnily enough, the same damage profile than the Immortal's Gauss blasters, just with a shorter range and more shots. It also comes with a bonus 2AP on the 1A, nothing to write home but better than nothing), probably keeping the same stats for streamlining sake (which funnily enough would make him the beefiest of the cryptek, ignoring the W ofc) and bringing some cryptek style support ability to the unit to help it live a bit more to its name.

That effect could range from a FNP to a rite or reanimation or any other reanimation style effect you could think of. Hell, maybe GW is going to be very smart for once and make him an option for the deathmarks too, giving them some shooting buffs, but I doubt it).

I can see that be a 10-20 pt upgrade, which may be well worth it on 10 model unit you'd want to move to the center of the board and tank while drawing as much fire as possible.

Now the real question here is what will thos Plasmacytes do? At first I thought they would be add-ons to the already optional Apprentek, but that wouldn't make much sens or fit with the already existing Canoptek Plasmacytes which they are clearly related to.

A cool idea here would be to have them be an update to the existing Canoptek Plasmacyte datasheet.
They would now have 3 "gear option" (or protocol).
One would be the existing one (Infused Madness) that increase mele capability.
One would be a reanimation related effect (for the reanimator).
One would be a mobility related effect (for the accelerator)

This would help a bit to make that unit a bit more interesting and versatile than what it is right now.

Or.... they could just be extra minies treated as standard Canoptek Plasmacyte just in case you didn't have enough of them already (despite them literally coming with the units they are supposed to support), because GW couldn't be arsed to make something clever. Knowing GW that is a very strong possibility.

What did we say the new box is coming at price wise £?
And what is a comparative item of said price?

Danny76 wrote:
What did we say the new box is coming at price wise £?
And what is a comparative item of said price?

Shadow vault is £110, €145, $185. Which is comparative to 40K command edition

Likely £85 posted then from third party.
Not too bad I guess. If I can sell the Necron team..

Kasrkin re-roll bonanza article:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/10/14/improve-unlucky-dice-and-reanimate-unlucky-operatives-in-kill-team-shadowvaults/

From the article.

Unlike their Compendium counterparts, the Hierotek Circle aren’t limited to a single Tactical Ploy.

We all knew this is what they were doing, but to actually say it out loud...

EightFoldPath wrote:
From the article.

Unlike their Compendium counterparts, the Hierotek Circle aren’t limited to a single Tactical Ploy.

We all knew this is what they were doing, but to actually say it out loud...

Sorry, what are they doing, and what did they say out loud?

Just a quick question for anyone in the know. Is Shadowvaults able to be played without Into the Dark? I ended up skipping because I’m not a huge Kroot fan, and would like Shadowvaults. I have Octarius and Moroch and all the rulebooks/tokens/cards etc.

According to the store page entry, all you need are the core KT rules, no mention of Into the Dark is made as a prerequisite.

 Sabotage! wrote:
Just a quick question for anyone in the know. Is Shadowvaults able to be played without Into the Dark? I ended up skipping because I’m not a huge Kroot fan, and would like Shadowvaults. I have Octarius and Moroch and all the rulebooks/tokens/cards etc.

I should hope so. Only things you might be missing are the generic "Close Confines Game Rules", but those are like 2 pages max (weapons with blast/torrent etc gain 5+ lethal, guard, no tac ops in matched play...), but I cannot confirm this info

 Insularum wrote:
It's a bit weird that they prioritised the massive tactical rock for a plasmacyte over an extra set of legs - looks like the legs is the only piece needed for the Apprentek.

Any bets on whether the necron team get 40k rules updates or not? Seems feasible that it's a counts as HQ box with 2 crypteks and a royal warden plus spare parts.

So should we carve the legs out of sprue, make crawling Apprenteks or hovering ones?

 tauist wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Just a quick question for anyone in the know. Is Shadowvaults able to be played without Into the Dark? I ended up skipping because I’m not a huge Kroot fan, and would like Shadowvaults. I have Octarius and Moroch and all the rulebooks/tokens/cards etc.

I should hope so. Only things you might be missing are the generic "Close Confines Game Rules", but those are like 2 pages max (weapons with blast/torrent etc gain 5+ lethal, guard, no tac ops in matched play...), but I cannot confirm this info

Yeah, I hope so as well. It seems weird I couldn’t find (at least what I consider) such important info about the box in their various articles or announcements for it. Maybe I’m just overlooking it. Seems like it wouldn’t be hard to print those few pages in the Shadowvaults book as well. Either way the reviews for the product will come out later today and hopefully I’ll be able to watch one or two and get that info.

Here is my Shadowvaults review:

https://taleofpainters.com/2022/10/review-kill-team-shadowvaults/

Hopefully answering the question of whether there are 9 or 8 Necron models included, what rules are reprinted from Into the Dark and what are missing, and how much new terrain there really is.

 tauist wrote:

 Sabotage! wrote:
Just a quick question for anyone in the know. Is Shadowvaults able to be played without Into the Dark? I ended up skipping because I’m not a huge Kroot fan, and would like Shadowvaults. I have Octarius and Moroch and all the rulebooks/tokens/cards etc.

I should hope so. Only things you might be missing are the generic "Close Confines Game Rules", but those are like 2 pages max (weapons with blast/torrent etc gain 5+ lethal, guard, no tac ops in matched play...), but I cannot confirm this info

Wouldn’t the Clos Confunes stuff be in the Shadowvaults book, assuming it was in the ItD book prior.

My assumption would be, have the rulebook, get this and all set.