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Tsagualsa wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Didn't the practice they were doing at one stage, where they'd guarantee to produce enough copies to satisfy pre-orders as long as the pre-order was made before X date, mess with scalpers and benefit the community, though?

If GW can't forecast demand well enough to ensure there's sufficient stock not to sell out within the first hour of pre-orders going up, they should go back to that pre-order model.

That model is probably not feasible for all products, because afaik they still source cardstock stuff from exterior producers, so boxe like Cursed City that contain a lot of Cardboard need that decision to be made very early in the overall production process. Of course you could have preorders months before the actual production run and still do it like that, but that does not gell well with GW's general marketing approach of a new hype every month.

As I said, they did it for a run of big box releases last year (I think it was) - it may mean splitting pre-orders between a batch on day 1 and a batch down the line, but at least it means people can get them without having to deal with scalpers.

I'm not advocating for individual unit releases, or anything like that, but the likes of Soulshackle, Shadowvaults, Into The Dark, etc? Yeah, I think they should for those.

Element seemed to suggest there would be multiple waves of stock, so some retailers may have only put up the stuff they are getting next week
"Please note stock allocations for this weeks Games Workshop releases are extremely low. Please pay attention to your expected dispatch date when ordering. All orders will be fulfilled chronologically as the stock arrives in the coming weeks."
In this case I suspect its Kill Team players being on the ball after the last box sold out so quick (the first to do so).

 Dysartes wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:

 Dysartes wrote:
Didn't the practice they were doing at one stage, where they'd guarantee to produce enough copies to satisfy pre-orders as long as the pre-order was made before X date, mess with scalpers and benefit the community, though?

If GW can't forecast demand well enough to ensure there's sufficient stock not to sell out within the first hour of pre-orders going up, they should go back to that pre-order model.

That model is probably not feasible for all products, because afaik they still source cardstock stuff from exterior producers, so boxe like Cursed City that contain a lot of Cardboard need that decision to be made very early in the overall production process. Of course you could have preorders months before the actual production run and still do it like that, but that does not gell well with GW's general marketing approach of a new hype every month.

As I said, they did it for a run of big box releases last year (I think it was) - it may mean splitting pre-orders between a batch on day 1 and a batch down the line, but at least it means people can get them without having to deal with scalpers.

I'm not advocating for individual unit releases, or anything like that, but the likes of Soulshackle, Shadowvaults, Into The Dark, etc? Yeah, I think they should for those.

I'm not disagreeing. At the moment, supply issues and scalpers are two big factors that distract from buyer's hobby experience, and that's usually a big problem from a marketing perspective, because the people that are prepared to splurge on multiple-hundred dollar collector's editions or preorder boxed games regularly usually tend to be 'whales', and you absolutely do not want to drive those away with bad service experiences. Historically, GW's customer service has been excellent on average, considering returns, mispackagings or miscast and such, so that as-of-yet unsolved problem is especially galling because they continue to fall short of their usual standard in that regard.

Element, Wayland etc were all out by the time I looked for Soulshacke. Maybe 40 mins in I thought.

bobthe4th wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:


It's pretty obvious that their sole purpose isn't to sell stuff, if I can't buy their stuff.

GW don't want lots of unsold product taking up shelf space. Selling every copy of a new product is a good thing for them as it keeps FOMO high. The next time someone is on the fence about buying something (e.g. when the sold out item is restocked) they are likely to buy it.

For a business like GW it makes better financial sense to make an amount that will nearly always sell out, than make an amount that never will. They will have various internal projections (taking into account profit margin per item, factory capacity, shelf space etc) to help set the production level.

It's a fine line that if they continue to screw up people will look elsewhere to spend their gaming money.

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Don’t want to sound like a “defender” here but you want to send a petition to a company complaining that you can’t buy enough of their product and you are irate because of it. They would love to hear that and I am sure if they could they would sell you more stuff. That’s their sole purpose. Sell you stuff.

It's pretty obvious that their sole purpose isn't to sell stuff, if I can't buy their stuff.

There no conspiracy here, they are a publicly limited company, sole purpose to make profits for the shareholders, they do that by selling stuff. They want to sell you stuff, what else is their purpose if not that??

They have increased warehousing and are having issues with that and have issues around delivery that clearly mean they are having supply issues, but they still want to sell as much as they can, as others said, selling out of stuff is good for them, less warehoused stock and increased FOMO, but it’s a fine balance between that and putting customers off.

All the stuff you want to buy will be available soon. Just not right away.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

bobthe4th wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:


It's pretty obvious that their sole purpose isn't to sell stuff, if I can't buy their stuff.

GW don't want lots of unsold product taking up shelf space. Selling every copy of a new product is a good thing for them as it keeps FOMO high. The next time someone is on the fence about buying something (e.g. when the sold out item is restocked) they are likely to buy it.

For a business like GW it makes better financial sense to make an amount that will nearly always sell out, than make an amount that never will. They will have various internal projections (taking into account profit margin per item, factory capacity, shelf space etc) to help set the production level.

It's a fine line that if they continue to screw up people will look elsewhere to spend their gaming money.

Bet most don’t though, bet most will still spend on GW stuff. If they were selling out of stuff that people were not that keen on it’d be an issue, but selling out of stuff that’s is still so hyped up that most folk will wait, that’s all good. Look at sagitaurs for votann, they were sold out for ages, came back I. Again and wolf out again quickly, ?ksarskin? They hype will still be there when they come back in stock. People will still buy them.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
Alchemists workshops posted this the other day too. All is not going as planned in Nottingham.

https://alchemistsworkshops.com/uncategorized/games-workshops-continued-delivery-issues/

Andykp wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

Andykp wrote:
Don’t want to sound like a “defender” here but you want to send a petition to a company complaining that you can’t buy enough of their product and you are irate because of it. They would love to hear that and I am sure if they could they would sell you more stuff. That’s their sole purpose. Sell you stuff.

It's pretty obvious that their sole purpose isn't to sell stuff, if I can't buy their stuff.

There no conspiracy here, they are a publicly limited company, sole purpose to make profits for the shareholders, they do that by selling stuff. They want to sell you stuff, what else is their purpose if not that??

They have increased warehousing and are having issues with that and have issues around delivery that clearly mean they are having supply issues, but they still want to sell as much as they can, as others said, selling out of stuff is good for them, less warehoused stock and increased FOMO, but it’s a fine balance between that and putting customers off.

All the stuff you want to buy will be available soon. Just not right away.




Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:

bobthe4th wrote:

 Insurgency Walker wrote:


It's pretty obvious that their sole purpose isn't to sell stuff, if I can't buy their stuff.

GW don't want lots of unsold product taking up shelf space. Selling every copy of a new product is a good thing for them as it keeps FOMO high. The next time someone is on the fence about buying something (e.g. when the sold out item is restocked) they are likely to buy it.

For a business like GW it makes better financial sense to make an amount that will nearly always sell out, than make an amount that never will. They will have various internal projections (taking into account profit margin per item, factory capacity, shelf space etc) to help set the production level.

It's a fine line that if they continue to screw up people will look elsewhere to spend their gaming money.

Bet most don’t though, bet most will still spend on GW stuff. If they were selling out of stuff that people were not that keen on it’d be an issue, but selling out of stuff that’s is still so hyped up that most folk will wait, that’s all good. Look at sagitaurs for votann, they were sold out for ages, came back I. Again and wolf out again quickly, ?ksarskin? They hype will still be there when they come back in stock. People will still buy them.

It's a classic business issue with "make profits for the shareholders". Companies take their eye off of the product or service they provide and instead focus making money. Unless your company is in the business of printing money it should not be the top tier consideration of the business.

You can't sell products that you don't have enough stock of.

That's kind of economics 101. FOMO is nice, but then you're literally leaving money on the table when people can't get what you're out of. As it happens Soulshackle hit two of my GW wants, Arbites and a 28mm space hulk. (If it had been Chaos cultists or Space Criminals rather than Dark Eldar it would be 3 wants).

There's no guarantee that the next product will. If it's Eldar vs Orks or whatever then I have no fear of missing out since I don't want either.

axotl wrote:I'd love to harass GW with like, a change.org petition just to show them how irate their base is. I hate how hard it is to mobilize. Let defenders sit quietly while the rest of us show just how many or not many there are pissed off.

Ah, a call to boycott/petition GW over their business practises. That makes me nostalgic.

drbored wrote:
Scalping is indeed an issue, but there's only so much GW can do. Scalpers exist because it keeps working, because people unable to control their impulses or plastic crack addiction gotta have it NOW, instead of just waiting for the next print, especially when it's a mainline product. Obviously if it's something GW is doing away with, that's another topic.

On top of that, so many people that want more, more, more, have big piles of unbuilt, unpainted models for projects that go by the wayside as soon as the new thing is out. Go work on all that stuff, and if the box that sold out was truly the one thing you were waiting on to continue hobbying, then I'd actually feel bad for you. I'm guessing that's not too common if the stereotypes of this community continue to be reinforced, though.

This right here. Remember the time GW released a statement that 'the GW hobby is buying GW products'? They got some flak for that but they weren't exactly wrong.

I see it as two avenues of thought:

1) Buy everything as it's released, playing the game at the pace GW wants you to play, nickle and diming you and drip feeding you forever just so you always keep coming back for more (because profit). There will always be a new rules edition, requiring new books etc. Keep up at the expense of your budget

2) At some point, say enough is enough, step off the bandwagon, and just make do with what you have already collected.

Choosing 2 will make your hobby "incompatible" with the most of the GW world eventually ("Your still playing THAT edition?") , but you can still make it work as long as you find enough people who are also into the editions/models you have got.

Let's face it, if you stick with 1 forever, you're bound to be feeling used eventually

Sooner or later GW kill themself with their spinning capitalism wheel. What comes next new Editons all 2 years? "Seasons" for AoS and 40k?

Also when people want to buy something they can't get, they will leave and look for another Hobby where they get what they want.

That concept of "rotating the releases even faster and faster" + "we have shipping issues" will not work for long.

True. For the drip feed thing to work, product has to move reliably and in suffficient quantities.

I think this sort of sales strategy takes its inspiration from the software world, where nothing is ever "done", stuff gets released, and gets some active support for a period of time, but ultimately must make way for the next version (of the same product, same same but different! improved from version 1.0! Best version ever!). But with software, stock is always in infinite quantity.

Adapting software sales practices to hardware products is not sustainable forever. Sooner or later, something has to give. GW would do well to make a plan B in case their existing treadmill strategy starts failing. Plan B could be something like starting to sell complete rules bundles of their previous editions; this would give old collectors a chance to stick to their preferred ruleset indefinitely.

 tauist wrote:
True. For the drip feed thing to work, product has to more reliably and in suffficient quantities.

I'm not so convinced of that - for the more 'casual' gamer that picks up stuff mainly from physical stores or now and then without paying much attention to the wider picture, stuff still works out basically fine. Don't discount the factor that the whole online community is a subsection of all hobbyists that is both hyper-aware of things and extremely critical.

RazorEdge wrote:
Sooner or later GW kill themself with their spinning capitalism wheel.

People have been saying this ever since I discovered GW, and long before. I've said a few times. But GW keep making more and more money.

Frankly, of the participants in this parasocial relationship, GW is not going to change. It's the individual gamer who has to change. If it means throwing off that yoke of consoomerism they once willingly wore, that might have to be how it is.

GW won't kill themselves simply because they have several different systems that generate profit

one system might see a big drop because it is too expensive and die
but there are others that still sell and GW can adjust with a different game or setting
they also get money for licensed games so even the 2 big games can die and they still have an income until they find something different

people are saying that GW will go down if they continue, and they nearly did 2 times, but because they have several different games and a constant change in Edition that are set in a cycle, they have the possibility to change

so 40k not selling any no more because it is too expensive, Kill Team or Necromunda might see a different game mode that comes in cheaper or Adeptus Titanicus is expanded to replace 40k
also AoS might be pushed to be the main game, LoTR gets the large R&F expansion back, or Horus Heresy gets an Alien expansion

Tsagualsa wrote:

 tauist wrote:
True. For the drip feed thing to work, product has to more reliably and in suffficient quantities.

I'm not so convinced of that - for the more 'casual' gamer that picks up stuff mainly from physical stores or now and then without paying much attention to the wider picture, stuff still works out basically fine. Don't discount the factor that the whole online community is a subsection of all hobbyists that is both hyper-aware of things and extremely critical.

Well, yeah, I suppose that's what keeps the bottom line in the green. Sell stuff to casual gamers who buy your stuff for a few years, and then just stop being involved with the hobby altogether.

I think I want to step off this threadmill when I get my beakie army done. Then I can just stick to playing KT21 & Rogue Trader, buying some cool nostalghia rereleases here and there if/when they manifest.

Oh who am I kidding. Once Epic rereleases, they'll pull me back again. FML

A distributor we spoke to essentially said the Soulshackle boxes will have super weird allocations. Most local stores we hard capped at three per store, and told they'd get stock on the 15th, then a week later they could open a second larger round of orders which would be filled late February.

Maybe GW has an issue distributing the bulk of their stock as clearly a couple week delay on more isn't nearly enough time to suggest it was a production problem.

The problem is GW's own online store now prominently features a product labeled "No longer available online".

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/kill-team-soulshackle-2023-eng

Not "temporarily out of stock" not "awaiting reorder" no. No longer available.

And there's no way that's a good look for any company.

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:
The problem is GW's own online store now prominently features a product labeled "No longer available online".

https://www.games-workshop.com/en-US/kill-team-soulshackle-2023-eng

Not "temporarily out of stock" not "awaiting reorder" no. No longer available.

And there's no way that's a good look for any company.

Those boxes are always limited run, so when they sell out they are done, but the contents will be available some time.

I agree though, the model of starter boxes every few months with different factions and terrain in dint work if they are only available for 30 minutes each.

It’s clear GW is having major supply chain/warehouse/distribution issues at the minute. This way of things being isn’t going as planned and hopefully won’t last.

None of that is clear. I suspect this was a small supply initial release at the current price and the restock will take place after the price increase is effective.

They’re an office-based business who launched something that sold out at a weekend and no-one is in to change any site messaging or write social media missives til Monday. It’s a screw up not a conspiracy.

Besides, if they keep selling out it doesn’t appear they’re driving anyone away, no matter the noise in these threads. Sure, a few more 3D printers will go brrrr but also GW made a shedload of cash so don’t care.

GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

 tauist wrote:
GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.

If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

The art lies in judging how many is enough, and how many is too many. GW still has copies of Cadia Stands, so they likely made too many of that one.

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 tauist wrote:
GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.

If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

Exactly! Sold out means you left money on the table

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 tauist wrote:
GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.

If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

Exactly! Sold out means you left money on the table

From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 tauist wrote:
GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.

If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

Exactly! Sold out means you left money on the table

From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.

Exactly. Especially given GW's production (in house) issues - i.e. squeeze on machine time. They probably calculated how many of those they needed to sell to make a tidy profit, and they did exactly that, even if it means leaving "more" money on the table.

Its especially sad trying to find stuff on GW's own website, when half of their items are out of stock all the time anyway. Clearly they have production/capacity issues.

I'm just going to wait until they see release. Besides, I need more pith helmets.

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:
If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

The art lies in judging how many is enough, and how many is too many. GW still has copies of Cadia Stands, so they likely made too many of that one.

Cadia Stands is even weirder now that the combat patrol is up.

Even moreso if '10th edition' trashes the book and cards in ~4 months

 Shakalooloo wrote:

 Kid_Kyoto wrote:

 MonkeyBallistic wrote:

 tauist wrote:
GW doesn't care? I disagree. Most of the preorder items released this week sold out inside a business day. That's a great day for any business! They will be popping off some champagne and dishing out free pastries at the office breakroom come Monday

And yet I would have bought a copy if it was still available. Instead, I’ve spent that money on products by a different manufacturer.

If a product sells out in a few days, that’s probably a great success. If it sells out in a few minutes, that means you just didn’t make enough and you probably lost money.

Exactly! Sold out means you left money on the table

From a business standpoint, given that there's no guarantees, it's better to leave money on the table than lose money by over-producing and having wastage.

It sold out in minutes.

Not days.

Not hours.

Minutes! There is no way you can spin that as a good business decision.