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xeen wrote: That is awesome. With the removal of the double tap strat, and the fact that the damage reduction strat is only 1 CP for 5 man squads, there is no reason to bring them in larger than min. All the buffs are going to go on the SoT anyway, so no point to 10 man Rubrics.
10 man rubrics are a better target for the +1 shot strat since you'll get 10 for far fewer points. Also, warpflamers and risen if one is so inclined. Or the remain stationary strat.
Other cool things --
Strat to change a secondary after they are revealed
Don't need vision to use Beam
Mutalith can give D3 more cabal for 1CP and you can forgoe a caster's spells for a urn to get healed by the Mutalith
Seems like a pretty solid book all up. Still a pity about TS not getting more models than they did, but as far as platforms go for an edition of gaming, this sounds good.
Those new Forgefiend/Maulerfiend statlines are great, can't wait to use them with my CSM when their book drops in 2029.
We can buff Volkite Contemptors quite well too. We have multiple ways of getting +1 to Strength or wound, we can get them to -1 AP and then with the Orrey we can ensure a target goes down each turn since it stops all negative modifiers and even prevents minus damage. Throw in an exalted with some rerolls and you are blowing away targets.
I'm tempted for 3x Ecto Fiends as well. 3D3 Strength 7 (Can be buffed) -3 AP flat 3 damage shots can be pretty potent.
Also, since all of those fw units gain the <ARCANA ASTARTES> keyword in Thousand Sons armies, that means they all get that sweet 5++. Killer.
Edit: Except the LOWs. I was thinking that the 5++ was the mono faction bonus. It isn't, Cabbalistic Ritual is. Whoops.
Yea I am quite hype for 5++ dreads. Time to get some of the non-osiron contemptors and convert them up.
Contemptors already have 5++ saves. I was thinking more along the lines of 5++ Sicarans, Fire Raptors, Dreadclaws, etc. And Land Raider Proteus with the 12" no deep strike bubble AND a 5++, instead of either/or.
Now HELLBRUTES with a 5++ could be interesting. Actually, with the boost to daemon engines, our fw stuff is looking more and more like sidegrades. All the more reason to get rid of the godawful Martial Legacy rule.
Sorry I mean I will use the non-osiron TS contemptors as helbrutes since I hate the aesthetic of the actual helbrutes for them.
Oh. Yeah, that sounds cool. Maybe use the Osiron as an actual Contemptor?
Marshal Loss wrote:Seems like a pretty solid book all up. Still a pity about TS not getting more models than they did, but as far as platforms go for an edition of gaming, this sounds good.
Those new Forgefiend/Maulerfiend statlines are great, can't wait to use them with my CSM when their book drops in 2029.
Hey, I'm sure we'll get the CSM codex just as soon as gw gets done releasing supplements for every loyalist chapter anyone has ever thought up, ever.
In all seriousness, we can get a fairly good idea of what it'll look like from this and Death Guard. Looks like giving buffs to Aspiring Champions will be a thing. And the Vengeance Discipline is probably what Hereticus will be.
Sasori wrote: We can buff Volkite Contemptors quite well too. We have multiple ways of getting +1 to Strength or wound, we can get them to -1 AP and then with the Orrey we can ensure a target goes down each turn since it stops all negative modifiers and even prevents minus damage. Throw in an exalted with some rerolls and you are blowing away targets.
I'm tempted for 3x Ecto Fiends as well. 3D3 Strength 7 (Can be buffed) -3 AP flat 3 damage shots can be pretty potent.
Yuup. Volkites with AP. Hot damn. Takes a CP each time and a warlord babysitter, but still...
Marshal Loss wrote: Seems like a pretty solid book all up. Still a pity about TS not getting more models than they did, but as far as platforms go for an edition of gaming, this sounds good.
On the bright side they have at least made the models they do have quite good. Lots of boosts all round, enough that people are actually considering Land Raiders of all things!
Marshal Loss wrote: Those new Forgefiend/Maulerfiend statlines are great, can't wait to use them with my CSM when their book drops in 2029.
I am salivating at the idea of getting those profiles for my CSM. I love the Forgefiend, and its new gun profiles are fantastic.
Now watch them forget and put the old profiles into the new book.
Marshal Loss wrote: Seems like a pretty solid book all up. Still a pity about TS not getting more models than they did, but as far as platforms go for an edition of gaming, this sounds good.
I would be down to even get just some upgrade sprues to add to the current Rubrics and Scarabs. You could have an assaults weapons sprues for each unit (double kopesh for both units, or kopesh + pistol for Rubric (warpflamer pistol would be bananas), power fist for Termi? stuff like that) that could create an assault variant of both unit. A heavy weapon sprue for Rubric with some extra Soulreapers, heavy Warpflamer, some missiles launcher maybe to create a devastator-esque unit. Those kits are old style torso + arm so would be very easy for them to do.
Outside of anything unique to TS (like all the DG units), that would be an easy way to add at least 3 Datasheet in the codex that are actual marines.
Fantasy armies - Retired (Tomb Kings, Vampires, Empire, Chaos Warriors/Daemons, Dark Elves)
Tyranids army - Ever evolving, but about 10k pts
Custodes - 3,500pts (Fully painted yay!)
Thousand Sons - 4,000 pts
Eldar - 3,000pts
Incorrect, they do per the Brotherhood of Sorcerers ability goes off the Tzaangor keyword.
Almost everything the army between ARCANA Astartes and TZAANGOR and the default units that have one means pretty much the whole army has a 5++, including Rhinos.
Daedalus81 wrote: Force staves are +3S now.
They do. Arcana Astartes and Tzaangor models get 5++.
Oops, read that page 3 times last night and still misread it!
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Sasori wrote: We can buff Volkite Contemptors quite well too. We have multiple ways of getting +1 to Strength or wound, we can get them to -1 AP and then with the Orrey we can ensure a target goes down each turn since it stops all negative modifiers and even prevents minus damage. Throw in an exalted with some rerolls and you are blowing away targets.
I'm tempted for 3x Ecto Fiends as well. 3D3 Strength 7 (Can be buffed) -3 AP flat 3 damage shots can be pretty potent.
That Orrey/Orrery relic looks absolutely auto take if you are taking a couple of large blobs of Scarabs too. It is the Tallyman/Tollkeeper equivalent. I really enjoyed 20 Blightlords and 3 Volkite Contemptors in Death Guard with it so can't wait to do something similar. You also don't really feel like you are castling up as 20 Terminators take up most of the width of the board anyway.
I actually like the current model line up for both TSons and DG as I like that there aren't too many choices per model (really glad I started DG in 9th though), less chance of picking the wrong loadout. I'd actually prefer the DG route of 2~3 unique vehicles. Surely the speed this box sold out tells GW that there is a good market for TSons. They should know this already though as I think Scarabs have always/regularly been one of the units they make retailers permanently have in stock.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/08 08:29:16
Phobos wrote:Are there really that many people starting new Sons or GK armies?
I hope anyone else who wanted one is able to get it locally.
I don't already have any GK or TS, but I really like both (I used to play GK back in 1st edition), so I guess I am! I also managed to get one ordered through my FLGS.
First post on here, so apologies if this is an obvious point to make, but doesn't combining malefic maelstrom and wrath of the wronged on a big unit of rubrics effectively make all their bolter shots strength 8, if shooting at toughness 8 stuff?
As in: malefic maelstrom makes them strength 5, so they would be wounding on 5s; then wrath of the wronged gives +1 to wound, effectively giving them another +3 strength?
Cmonster wrote: First post on here, so apologies if this is an obvious point to make, but doesn't combining malefic maelstrom and wrath of the wronged on a big unit of rubrics effectively make all their bolter shots strength 8, if shooting at toughness 8 stuff?
As in: malefic maelstrom makes them strength 5, so they would be wounding on 5s; then wrath of the wronged gives +1 to wound, effectively giving them another +3 strength?
I wouldn't call it actually S8, but effectively, yes.
Automatically Appended Next Post: So not a lot of talk about GK here it seems. I'm too busy with TS to go look. Anything notable on their end?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/08 16:02:54
Cmonster wrote: First post on here, so apologies if this is an obvious point to make, but doesn't combining malefic maelstrom and wrath of the wronged on a big unit of rubrics effectively make all their bolter shots strength 8, if shooting at toughness 8 stuff?
As in: malefic maelstrom makes them strength 5, so they would be wounding on 5s; then wrath of the wronged gives +1 to wound, effectively giving them another +3 strength?
Well not really. You are wounding on 4+ also vs t6 and t7. Were you s8 those mer 3+.
Also plenty of effects where it matters are you s8 or s5 beyond woundin value so better not have inaccurate idea. S5 with +1 to wound.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Cmonster wrote: First post on here, so apologies if this is an obvious point to make, but doesn't combining malefic maelstrom and wrath of the wronged on a big unit of rubrics effectively make all their bolter shots strength 8, if shooting at toughness 8 stuff?
As in: malefic maelstrom makes them strength 5, so they would be wounding on 5s; then wrath of the wronged gives +1 to wound, effectively giving them another +3 strength?
Welcome As others have said, it doesn't literally give them S8, but when shooting at T8 it would effectively be the same as if they had S8, yes. Drukhari caused a problem recently as they had 2-damage S4 flamers with +1 to wound, for like 5 or 10 points, so they were going round hosing down T7 vehicles on a 4+, effectively giving them S7 flamers. Fortunately that was nipped in the bud.
On-topic, can anyone confirm what methods TS now have of boosting weapon range? Am I right in thinking thay they have an infernal master power and a spell, so they could give any unit +12" range total?
Argive wrote: The tsons marines did get the extra wounds right?
They did
You mean 2 wounds? Each??
Yes, 2 for Rubrics and 3 for Scarabs.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Twilight Pathways wrote: On-topic, can anyone confirm what methods TS now have of boosting weapon range? Am I right in thinking thay they have an infernal master power and a spell, so they could give any unit +12" range total?
Nada. Only one spell range buff. There is a strat to count as stationary and Rubrics now move 6" so you could effectively add 12".
Good Point: Strike Marines (Interceptors, Purifiers, Purgation) are very cost efficient, good and kick ass.
Bad point: 44 points a pop Terminators. Half more then regular marines while getting only 1+ Wound and 1+ Save in return.
Started pawing through the book.
You can't have more than one Grand Master and Brother Captain from the same brotherhood and they all have to be in different detachments. That really kills the idea of GMDK spam ( which is good ).
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2021/08/08 19:10:05
Argive wrote: The tsons marines did get the extra wounds right?
They did
You mean 2 wounds? Each??
Yes. We've known for a year now that all marines were getting the extra Wound. From Warhammer Community:
Spoiler:
That’s right – it won’t just be Primaris Marines on 2 Wounds anymore! All of a sudden, a lot of units that may have felt a bit left behind become very durable and appealing. From Battle Company units such as Assault, Devastator and Tactical Marines, to the elite Terminators of the 1st Company (who will be increased to 3 Wounds accordingly), the first born will be back to prove to their Primaris battle-brothers their great worth.
And as for future codexes for other genetically engineered transhuman warriors (both of the shiny grey and spikey variety), the same will apply to them. Just think how durable that will make units like Rubric Marines or Plague Marines.
Of course, all these updates will also come with a suitable points adjustment. The aforementioned Tactical Marine will clock in at 18pts for his extra Wound (20% more than he is today). And it means Space Marine forces will be compact, elite, durable and utterly deadly – just as they should be.
These new rules and points will come into effect officially, as new codexes are released...
'It is a source of constant consternation that my opponents cannot correlate their innate inferiority with their inevitable defeat. It would seem that stupidity is as eternal as war.'
- Nemesor Zahndrekh of the Sautekh Dynasty Overlord of the Crownworld of Gidrim
Argive wrote: The tsons marines did get the extra wounds right?
They did
You mean 2 wounds? Each??
Yes. We've known for a year now that all marines were getting the extra Wound. From Warhammer Community:
Spoiler:
That’s right – it won’t just be Primaris Marines on 2 Wounds anymore! All of a sudden, a lot of units that may have felt a bit left behind become very durable and appealing. From Battle Company units such as Assault, Devastator and Tactical Marines, to the elite Terminators of the 1st Company (who will be increased to 3 Wounds accordingly), the first born will be back to prove to their Primaris battle-brothers their great worth.
And as for future codexes for other genetically engineered transhuman warriors (both of the shiny grey and spikey variety), the same will apply to them. Just think how durable that will make units like Rubric Marines or Plague Marines.
Of course, all these updates will also come with a suitable points adjustment. The aforementioned Tactical Marine will clock in at 18pts for his extra Wound (20% more than he is today). And it means Space Marine forces will be compact, elite, durable and utterly deadly – just as they should be.
These new rules and points will come into effect officially, as new codexes are released...
An army with 2 Wounds has a lot going for it.
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Especially given that weapons have been diversified to match; a lot of what was supposed to be "anti-marine" firepower before such as heavy bolters have been moved to damage 2.
This is a good thing for the game, of course. The more different profiles see play the harder it is to skew for a specific one.
Especially with all the Damage 2 weapons floating around.
I'm beginning to think none of you played during 3.5...
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/08/08 20:50:53
You know you're really doing something when you can make strangers hate you over the Internet. - Mauleed
Just remember folks. Panic. Panic all the time. It's the only way to survive, other than just being mindful, of course-but geez, that's so friggin' boring. - Aegis Grimm
Hallowed is the All Pie The Before Times: A Place That Celebrates The World That Was
Good Point: Strike Marines (Interceptors, Purifiers, Purgation) are very cost efficient, good and kick ass.
Bad point: 44 points a pop Terminators. Half more then regular marines while getting only 1+ Wound and 1+ Save in return.
Seems to speak to me that the power armoured guys are too cheap more than anything. If the terminators were almost any amount cheaper they'd be so much better than regular marine terminators at 38 it'd be a problem. Or regular terminators are too expensive too. Who knows.
4000+
6000+ Order. Unity. Obedience.
Thousand Sons 4000+
Contemptors already have 5++ saves. I was thinking more along the lines of 5++ Sicarans, Fire Raptors, Dreadclaws, etc. And Land Raider Proteus with the 12" no deep strike bubble AND a 5++, instead of either/or.
[1,800] Chaos Knights | 
[1,250] Thousand Sons | 
[1,000] Grey Knights | 40K editions: RT, 8, 9, 10 | 
Eldar- 4436 pts
As others have said, it doesn't literally give them S8, but when shooting at T8 it would effectively be the same as if they had S8, yes. Drukhari caused a problem recently as they had 2-damage S4 flamers with +1 to wound, for like 5 or 10 points, so they were going round hosing down T7 vehicles on a 4+, effectively giving them S7 flamers. Fortunately that was nipped in the bud.
