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 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.

I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.

 rybackstun wrote:
Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.

Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.

They survive it if GW writes it

GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.

It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.

And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)

tneva82 wrote:

 rybackstun wrote:
Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.

Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.

They survive it if GW writes it

GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.

It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.

And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)

Hexfire is a battlebox though, where mostly always just a new character is included (like Tooth & Claw, Wraith something, or even before Primaris the Baal box, etc), whereas a launch box like the SoB, Lumineth, Beastsnaggas has only new models.

tneva82 wrote:

 rybackstun wrote:
Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.

Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.

They survive it if GW writes it

GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.

It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.

And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)

Sorry to nitpick but the grey knights are in a battle box (there's been many all of which are old models with new characters as I'm sure you're aware, like the prophecy of the wolf box for example), a launch box or early release box is more like the beast snaggas box, or lumineth and again with sisters in recent years.

Tygre wrote:
Nowhere in the article mentions he is a primaris and he is wearing relic armour, "The Armour of Faith", which would predate primaris.

Except Armour of Faith was always quickly adjustable plate (it can't be custom fitted due to random, temporary owners). That's why it has straps. It has to go over whatever armour frame the chosen marine has, and modifying it to fit primaris one was probably pretty easy, seeing Mk X is the most modular and adaptable SM mark produced so far.

The pistol holster is positioned for his right hand, in a cross draw, which is holding his sword. The holster should either be on the other side or face the other way for a left handed draw.

Not really. He can draw it with his left hand just fine if he rotates his wrist. And holster on the back of hip makes a lot of sense because it can't be hit from the front damaging the gun (or worse, exploding ammunition right into weak hip joint) when the owner is advancing, or it can't be caught on dumb wrist chain, etc. New holster is better positioned than old one considering EC main job and primary role.

I’m not massively au fait on Black Templar lore but looking at the various wikis, it seems like the Armour of Faith isn’t one specific suit of armour anyway, it’s more a name they give the artificer armour worn by the Emperors Champion after it’s been blessed and consecrated and inscribed with whatever wards they use and stuff.

 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.

The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.

Dudeface wrote:

I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.

I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.

Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.

The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.

Dudeface wrote:

I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.

I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.

Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.

The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".

If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.

The lieutenants are "functionally no different" aside from being faction locked.

Like I said, rumors pointed to Hounds of Morkai being a "dedicated kit". We saw what happened with that.


I'm thinking that what we're most likely to see is a "Crusader Squad" for a Troops choice for BT, being an upgrade sprue+Assault Intercessor Squad.

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.

The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.

The Neophyte rumours have been worded differently all over the place, but the SB ones are consistent: it is a full dedicated kit, not an existing kit packaged with an upgrade sprue, per those that have seen the models. No rumour mongers billed the Morkai as a "dedicated kit", that's just GW's advertising. AFAIK we have no concrete information on the Crusaders or what the vehicle upgrade sprue contains at this stage.

It's pretty obvious that this is the first chapter-specific Primaris release of significant scale, so comparisons with existing supplements are probably going to fall short of the mark. In any case, we'll see soon enough.

Could we get some recap on the scout/neophyte rumours? Because those are definitely something that would need new models, the old ones are pretty much unusable.

I am also really interest to see what the sword brethren will look like, if the rumour turn out to be true. I have some unfinished blade guards on my work bench, but perhaps I will wait for this new kit to see if it is something these could be kitbashed with.

The new EC model gets goofier the longer you look at it.

He holds the sword like it's a crucifix instead of like, you know, a sword. He's not giving a sermon, he's supposed to be challenging the enemy's Big Bad.

The breastplate is oddly short and very plain. There's nothing there to break up the empty space, where the old one had the necklace.

The pistol is set up for crossdraw with the sword hand. And while he COULD in theory draw with his left hand it would be awkward as hell. If they wanted the pistol to be rigged for crossdraw it should be farther to the right on his back or on his right hip (like on the old model)

The tabard looks all weird and angular on his abdomen and then winds around his leg all goofy-like.

He's supposed to have an iron halo... Iron halo is a backpack-mounted projector, not a helmet bling. It's also sticking up in a dopey fashion. It looks more or less right because he's tucking his chin in, but if his head is at a normal angle looking forward, the wreath would stick up in the air like a pair of horns.

His lower legs look MASSIVE, and make his arms look weedy.

The shoulder pads are plain, without the ridges that the ECs always had, another miss.

I actually liked the old champ. He looked purposeful and menacing and struck just the right balance between being special but also having plainer armor in BT's tradition. Shame they didn't do him justice with the update.

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.

The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.

Dudeface wrote:

I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.

I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.

Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.

The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".

If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.

What about Victrix Guard?

Rihgu wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
New neophytes/scouts are coming with this release, per folks with inside knowledge. Sword Brethren are also getting a dedicated kit (not an upgrade sprue). It's a sizable release with c. 5 Primaris characters, 2 Primaris units, and an upgrade sprue.

Ehh...all the rumors that have pointed to Neophytes suggest they're going to be a dedicated BT unit not updated Scouts. Scouts are supposed to be later and tied to Kill Team.

The Sword Brethren rumors I've seen imply that it's "a dedicated kit and not just an upgrade sprue"...but the Wolves of Morkai are a dedicated unit that's made with just an upgrade sprue and were billed as "a dedicated kit" too.

Dudeface wrote:

I'd never have put money on templars being the chapter to get the first dedicated primaris unit kit over the bigger chapters.

I don't really count the bodyguard guys for the ultras due to being bundled with a special character.

Dark Angels, and Space Wolves have all had "dedicated primaris units" since the release of their Lieutenant models, if you want to get nitpicky. They have loadouts nobody else gets in the form of the MC Bolt Carbine+Axe for SW and the Plasma Pistol+Power Sword for DA.

The Lieutenants are exactly that however, they have a specific load out but are functionally no different, the nearest are death company intercessors and hounds of morkai as you note, but are just "standard primaris unit with bits on".

If sword brethren get a bespoke kit and unit profile that isn't just "blade guard but black and maybe without shield", then it's setting a new precedent for units like primaris sanguinary guard, or wulfen etc. to get kits in the future.

What about Victrix Guard?

they came with a character so people tend to discount them. a flunky that accompanies a character is a bit differant from say a seperate box of that unit.

that said my guess is from the rumors we'll see new scouts, a mixed scout/assault marine unit, and a chapter specific unit in sword brethren.. which may yes just be a boix of something that already exists with an upgrade sprue, we'll have to wait and see, new scouts is pretty big news IMHO

New scout models would be bigger news if their rules weren’t a flaming dumpster fire. I’ve enjoyed playing scouts for my entire 40k career, but what 9th did to their rules was bad.

Would adding them to crusade squads make them viable? It would at least put them back as troops (I assume) and out of the elite slot. But they are not cheep wounds for the squad anymore. Sure, they might be less points per model, but half the wounds. They would give you some flavorful weapon options in the tac squad.

Not going to argue that the scouts don’t need a redo. They are old and badly sculpted. (Snipers aren’t horrible, but the regular guys most defiantly are) If done as a Kill Team release, I could see it. But for 40k, they are going to go straight from the factory to collecting dust on shelves.

tneva82 wrote:

 rybackstun wrote:
Both Helbrecht and Grimaldus seem like they'd be way too old to survive the Rubicon. Mind you that doesn't mean it wouldn't happen but I think we'd be more likely to see new characters rather than them getting bumped.

Also I think, much like GKs ant TSs, this will be the only new model in a potential BT box coming.

They survive it if GW writes it

GW writes fluff to suit models that were designed. Not design models over fluff.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:
Nah. They wouldn't be doing a launch box if it was just one new model.

It might be Initiates or packed in with an upgrade frame or something, but there's likely to be a ton of New New New.

And how many new grey knights newest launch box had?-)

2 Counterpoints: 1. Obviously, not a launch box. 2. How many new models did the Adepta Sororitas Launch Box have? Or the Beast Snaggas?

 Nevelon wrote:
New scout models would be bigger news if their rules weren’t a flaming dumpster fire. I’ve enjoyed playing scouts for my entire 40k career, but what 9th did to their rules was bad.

Would adding them to crusade squads make them viable? It would at least put them back as troops (I assume) and out of the elite slot. But they are not cheep wounds for the squad anymore. Sure, they might be less points per model, but half the wounds. They would give you some flavorful weapon options in the tac squad.

Not going to argue that the scouts don’t need a redo. They are old and badly sculpted. (Snipers aren’t horrible, but the regular guys most defiantly are) If done as a Kill Team release, I could see it. But for 40k, they are going to go straight from the factory to collecting dust on shelves.

I can't see this happening. If they release scouts they are going to be some kind of primaris scouts. Like scouts but different.

It would be a first that they rework an excisting SM unit and not making a new one which is similar.

The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.

That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.

That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.

While this is true. Primaris are a rework of the SM line and I would be really surprised if they take over the scouts as they are now. I think that, like all Primaris kits, they're going to be some kind of re-imagination of the old scouts.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The whole Primaris bit doesn't come into play with Scouts. Scouts are still a thing in all-Primaris Chapters. They just have "big brothers" in the form of the Vanguard Company which is also part of the 10th in codex chapters.

I don't really see why GW wouldn't differentiate between primaris and non-primaris scouts if a new kit is being released. That has been their tactic the whole time.

That all said, Primaris based Initiates and Neophytes for BT could easily be worked up using Phobos and Tacitus gear since the main power armor for the Primaris is a modular system.

Well, the rumour said that neophytes would have two wounds and attacks like all primaris. And can take shotguns. I suspect they will have scout armour, but that was not mentioned.

Don't forget that there were two mentions of Neophytes...

One of a dedicated 3 model kit and one of a Primaris upgrade frame "including an arm holding a helmet and a shotgun arm".

Truthfully, I don't know what all to expect. The big rumor dump seemed to point towards a dedicated unit rather than them just redoing the whole "Neophytes=Scouts 100%" thing.

Game mechanics/models, phobos armor has pretty much replaced scouts 100%.

From a lore POV, is the black carapace still the last step of implants? If that happens after those new fangled primaris implants, we would still have primaris scouts, with all the perks barring power armor.

Black Carapace is still the last, yeah.

The biggest thing to note is that the three Primaris organs aren't really "visible distinctions" and can be implanted at any point during a Marine's career. The visibility part might explain why the rumor is a 3 model Neophytes box I guess, putting them as a unit upgrade or optional bit rather than mandatory?

https://www.instagram.com/p/CSj2x4HnQZA/

This simple conversion (it's photoshop, but easily convertible) really makes me dislike the new EC model.

Like, with a better body, it's 100x better

 GaroRobe wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSj2x4HnQZA/

This simple conversion (it's photoshop, but easily convertible) really makes me dislike the new EC model.

Like, with a better body, it's 100x better

That makes the "look at my sword" thing he's got going on even worse in my opinion...

 GaroRobe wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSj2x4HnQZA/

This simple conversion (it's photoshop, but easily convertible) really makes me dislike the new EC model.

Like, with a better body, it's 100x better

And for the benefit of us who don't have Instagram?

 Grimtuff wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:
https://www.instagram.com/p/CSj2x4HnQZA/

This simple conversion (it's photoshop, but easily convertible) really makes me dislike the new EC model.

Like, with a better body, it's 100x better

And for the benefit of us who don't have Instagram?

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Kabewski's Hobby Idea 35: Primaris Emperor's Champion!
So this is some thing I've made my self using the indomitus Chaplain and the Resin Emperor's Champion, but you can use the upcoming plastic Emperor's Champion to make this.
This is in case you didn't like the new one and want something more gothic and ornate.
Other options to make Primaris Emperor's Champions are the normal Primaris Chaplain, the Dark Angels lieutenant and the primaris librarian!

I like the change and just like the predecessor model, I will use it for many kitbashes to come in the next decades.

Cheers bud. Looks far nicer.

Awesome, this just made me buy the Chaplain on eBay.