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 zedmeister wrote:

Vorian wrote:

 zedmeister wrote:
I think what this stark box is really going to show is how high GW prices have got. For me, I'd say that's about £50 worth of value there, and that's pushing it. What's the betting this'll be for £160-£180.

If the box sells out, which I think we can say it inevitability will, then we know your value is off.

Oh it'll sell, no doubt. I stand by my perception of value (hence my use of "For me"). We know the price is going to be eye watering.

Sure, but your perception of value is significantly below the market value.

If they were charging £50 for that they would be incompetent.

Well, colour me surprised. Not as brutally steep as I thought. Still priced above the £100 battleforces that were sold a couple of years ago.

Vorian wrote:
Sure, but your perception of value is significantly below the market value.

If they were charging £50 for that they would be incompetent.

Then they've increased their prices beyond what I am willing to pay. £50 is what I'd call a sane price and was what the start collecting sets were going for before they were bumped up to £85 (!) and this is roughly equivalent to what are in those (1 Character, 1 Squad, 1 Vehicle). Cards and codex supplement excepted.

That's fine, but you write it as if that's their issue. They are charging what people will pay for it.

Insane would be charging £50 for something they could probably sell out multiple times at £125.

Vorian wrote:
That's fine, but you write it as if that's their issue. They are charging what people will pay for it.

Insane would be charging £50 for something they could probably sell out multiple times at £125.

It is as they're back onto the price rise treadmill. Granted, they've been subtly about it since the Change™, but this is just straight back to old habbits.

As for what some people are willing to pay, I think they're nuts for shelling out for something priced that high for so little. Some people have talked about "deal" and "savings". Personally, I see nothing of the sort.

Voss wrote:
And I see that Black Templars are getting 'Vows and Passions' on top of the usual marine layers of nonsense. Are we at the (new paradigm +1) stage of codex creep already?

On that note, we are almost halfway through the edition and it's a good bet that it's the last chance to make a Marine supplement that's different to the existing supplements without starting a whole new cycle. There's no better time for a paradigm shift than now.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:
Still umming and ahhing over whether to purchase this. There's just so much on the horizon and starting a SM army from scratch is pretty pricey. So very tempted though.

No stake in it, but if you want it...I'd say go for it. You seem to really like BT so why not go whole hog?

If they do Cadians this way, I'm going in.

There's just so much on the horizon that I'm also interested in: CSM + Eldar + the 30k box + Chaos Knights all almost certainly next year, World Eaters at some point...I'm trying to be fiscally responsible here.

Unless you feel like treating yourself and/or are really into that specific codex cover, there's no increased value in this set over buying things individually at your leisure. Possibly saving money on the Dreadnought if you don't need it, considering it's just the generic one. These army launch boxes tend to skimp on any notable discount you get from other GW boxed sets in favor of letting you get your hands on the codex and models earlier. If that is of no value to you, you're missing out on the main selling point and may as well buy the individual kits whenever you feel like it.

I'm not trying to be a downer, mind. But if you're realistic there are very specific requirements to get added value out of a launch box like this. I bought the Sisters launch box and was happy with it, but that had inherent value to me because it came at the end of a very long wait for plastic models and in that specific case those same models weren't released again until the Combat Patrol a year and a half later. So at least I got to work on some of those models before I would have otherwise had a chance. With the Templars it looks like the models will be available in November (potential shipping/production issues notwithstanding). That's pretty negligible in my opinion.

 zedmeister wrote:

Vorian wrote:
That's fine, but you write it as if that's their issue. They are charging what people will pay for it.

Insane would be charging £50 for something they could probably sell out multiple times at £125.

It is as they're back onto the price rise treadmill. Granted, they've been subtly about it since the Change™, but this is just straight back to old habbits.

As for what some people are willing to pay, I think they're nuts for shelling out for something priced that high for so little. Some people have talked about "deal" and "savings". Personally, I see nothing of the sort.

Ok, but again, that's your perception and therefore subjective.

They are selling out more than they can manufacture, costs are going up for everything in the supply chain => completely logical that prices will rise.

I would also like things to be cheaper and I get priced out of some GW things too, but that isn't saying prices are too high or that they are doing something wrong.

13 models... at least I own Gw shares
I like the models, but not enough to add to my pile of shame for that kind of money.

 Marshal Loss wrote:

£125 for 13 models and a supplement, not even a codex. Oh and no dice either (although I admit that's a minor thing, but SoB and Lumineth both had them).

Will still sell out in under five minutes.

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

£125 for 13 models and a supplement, not even a codex. Oh and no dice either (although I admit that's a minor thing, but SoB and Lumineth both had them).

Will still sell out in under five minutes.

That's a fairly modest £20-25 saving on retail prices compared to buying everything separately. Roughly works out as getting one of the character models for free.

Good if you want to use everything in the box, not so great if for example you don't need another dread.

It seems like a decent purchase if you want everything in the box. It would be nicer if it had more new models instead of the Redemptor. It's a good unit, but I'd suspect many people already have them.

I only want the crusader kit an maybe the EC for kitbashing and converting, so I'll wait separate release. Besides, I need to hunt a fifth neophyte from bit sellers anyway to make a vanilla scout squad out of them.

 Kanluwen wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:
I doubt it will be made to order only because it will likely include a limited edition codex. For those that really want one I hope I'm wrong.

I did not say "made to order only".

Sorry, that's not what I meant to imply. There should have been some punctuation before the 'only'. I was thinking that they wouldn't produce any made to order copies because it had a limited ed codex.

Anyway, I'm glad to say I was wrong and that they are doing some on-demand production if people miss the initial shock.

Goodness gracious! £125!

Good luck with that, budding Marshals...

Whats the 125GBP price point translate to in American (note - not asking for exchange rate, I'm asking for price point, the two are not the same)? $170?

Roughly what I expected, but not necessarily the best in terms of value:

Redemptor = $65
10 man squad = Unknown, guessing $60
Emperors Champ = Unknown, guessing $30
Other character = Unknown, guessing $30
Codex Supplement = $30
Datacards = Overpriced, $35

So estimated $185 in minis, plus another $65 in paper, total $250 value if bought individually.

125GBP=$199USD. It's the price of KT Octarius.

So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

But you'll be supporting Games Workshop in these hard times!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

tneva82 wrote:

 godswildcard wrote:
Yeah, if that’s $200 I’ll certainly wait.


13 minis and a codex is by no means worth $200, even by GW logic.

Wait for what? Solo releases so you get to pay more for same?

Solo relased so he doesn't have to buy the Redemptor and the Codex supplement, presumably.

I’d just pass on the whole thing most likely. It’s not the amount of money that is the problem, but rather the feeling of value I get for that amount.

The fact that I’ve been waiting for a BT release for what seems like forever adds inherent value, but then GW is going to test that with their zany prices. Add that to the fact that the book and cards will only be valid for a year or two and then I’ll have to rebuy ALL my books.

I really don’t like GW’s business model, and that’s making me less likely to buy their products. You’ve got to pay a model premium (because GW) and that’s fine, we all kind of signed on for that when we got into the hobby, but then they add in EVERYTHING ELSE (Rulebook, codex, codex supplement, warzone supplement, chapter approved, etc...) and now you’re paying $200 in books that have a max shelf life of what...three years? I could do a model premium or a book premium, but not both.

I won’t pay for recasts of in-production models and I won’t illegally download the codex because I personally feel like that’s not the best thing to do. That leaves me with two options: buy the stuff or don’t buy the stuff. I’m far more likely to not buy the stuff at this point.

BUT that’s just me! If you’re looking forward to this release, that’s awesome! I can’t wait to see what you guys can do with these models in the painting forum! And there’s no getting around the new crusaders and characters are schaweeeeet!

 xttz wrote:

 Arbitrator wrote:

 Marshal Loss wrote:

£125 for 13 models and a supplement, not even a codex. Oh and no dice either (although I admit that's a minor thing, but SoB and Lumineth both had them).

Will still sell out in under five minutes.

That's a fairly modest £20-25 saving on retail prices compared to buying everything separately. Roughly works out as getting one of the character models for free.

Good if you want to use everything in the box, not so great if for example you don't need another dread.

The poor discount on Army Boxes before was balanced out somewhat by everything being new and shiny. The presence of the Dreadnought really mitigates that quite a bit when it's probably not an uncommon purchase.

tneva82 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

Maybe stop your silly stupid dishonest troll complaining? Discount boxes are only discount if you want everything in it. That's the way it works. If you only want part you don't get discount box.

I find it pretty impressive that my point of view is so often described as stupid, dishonest and trolling, when it's all genuine. Everytime GW prints something it's notoriously full of mistakes and unbalanced, with no proofreading involved. The supplement is most likely going to be outdated within weeks, thus worthless. Doubly so if you're going to get your rules online anyway.

chaos0xomega wrote:
Whats the 125GBP price point translate to in American (note - not asking for exchange rate, I'm asking for price point, the two are not the same)? $170?

Roughly what I expected, but not necessarily the best in terms of value:

Redemptor = $65
10 man squad = Unknown, guessing $60
Emperors Champ = Unknown, guessing $30
Other character = Unknown, guessing $30
Codex Supplement = $30
Datacards = Overpriced, $35

So estimated $185 in minis, plus another $65 in paper, total $250 value if bought individually.

As a note, you've got a bit of pricing disparity...

Emperor's Champion is a named 40mm based model, so $40 min.
Marshal has options and is 40mm based, so $35-$40.
Datacards are probably going to be $15-$25 tops.

So it'd be:
65+60+40+(35/40)+30+(15/18/25).
245 min,
260 tops.

Redemptor is a millstone around the neck of the box, but them's the breaks when you get full kits.

You know, I can't see anyone complaining if they replaced the Redemptor with the incoming Sword Brethren. They're probably gonna cost as much as a Redemptor anyway if not more, Bladeguard Vets are 50$ and Heavy Intercessors 60$.

Gotta say, if I was a Black Templars player, I'd want the box just for that Codex. Amazing to have that art on your codex.

For Australians, assuming the $290 AUD price point is true, assuming prices for individual units hold true to pas releases:

Emperor’s Champion and Marshal = $70 each
Crusaders and Initiates = $98
Redemptor Dreadnought = $110
Codex Supplement = $49
Datacards = $28

Totals $425 of retail value, so there actually is a decent saving on the box, especially if you can get a discount from your local.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

So don't buy it and buy the models separately later.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

What kind of logic is that? I dont save up on the box if I just want parts of it. Gee the Dark Angels combat patrol box is way overpriced if I just want the Redemptor.

tneva82 wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
So, with 185$ in minis, in a box that costs 199$, buying the box is a net loss if you just want the models.

Gee. Discount box is not discount if you just want part of it.

Okay so I just want the supplement. It's not discount! GW should sell it for 5£! That way whatever you want you get discount!

Maybe stop your silly stupid dishonest troll complaining? Discount boxes are only discount if you want everything in it. That's the way it works. If you only want part you don't get discount box.

Even kindergarden aged KID can understand it. Surely you don't want to admit being worse than a kid?

You are being a bit unfair and unnecessary agressive here. Most of the time, these big boxes were a good deal even for those who wanted only the models. Books and cards were like a bonus. Now it doesn't look like a good deal anymore. I'll probably buy this box anyways cause I'm a third edition / Black Templars nostalgic and I can afford it, but I know I will be supporting some bad practices.
As said by other people, with a 200$/155€ price tag, they should have added some more stuff to be consistent with their previous boxes. I bought Indomitus last year, it was a very honnest deal. This new BT box is not, but they know people like me are craving for it anyways.

Beast Snagga Army Box was 199$ and had a 200$ of Models inside, so while it wasn't exactly a saving, the Codex and such wastepaper were essentially freebies.

Yes, let's look at "these big boxes"...by actually looking at the product they are, not by lumping them in with something they aren't. This isn't Indomitus, a 2P starter/launch box. It's a faction launch box.

Lumineth? 2 units(Dawn Riders and Wardens) and 1 character(Light of Eltharion).

Sisters of Battle? Mixed sprues resulting in 1 unit of 10x SoB, a unit of 3x Arco Flagellants, a unit of 5x Seraphim, a Penitent Engine, and a unit of 5x Sisters Repentia and a Repentia Superior. Separate sprue with a Canoness. End result is 5x units and 2x characters.

Beast-Snaggas? A set of Squighog Boyz(3 models in a unit with their Bomb Squig upgrade and a Nob on Smasha Squig[separate unit choice] on sprue), 2x sets of Beast-Snagga Boyz(10 models strong for box, apparently), and Zodgrod(HQ). Ends up with 2x characters and 3x units.

Now the BT set is 2x characters(Champion and Marshal) plus Dreadnought(Elite) and Crusader Squad(Troop choice). It might look underwhelming, but it's about on par with the other 2 that aren't mixed sprues.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/10/04/black-templars-reinforcements-are-on-the-way-with-these-amazingly-zealous-new-models/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Facebook&utm_campaign=Facebook&utm_term=TemplarsArmySet041021&utm_content=TemplarsArmySet041021&fbclid=IwAR2eLs2wpVFWKKtK52JBrSwJQqtewR_p64wlwdi3BOCv6EXDobKCIB2Bnd4

A lot of oddly proportioned marines there, especially the sword brethren and Castellan. I won't be buying any of this stuff.