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Well, I was thinking about ordering a couple of the FB BT Chapter Upgrade boxes to kit out my remaining NoS FB, but it seems that with the announcement of a Primaris Upgrade sprue, they completely removed the FB one. I highly doubt they're going to release a full BT FB Crusade Squad box with all the upgrades, so it really does seem like they're angling to slowly but surely completely squat the FB line. I get the feeling that they only updated FB to 2W so that people wouldn't completely abandon the SM faction due to so few viable options in the Primaris range at the time, thus forcing GW to pick a new poster boy to fill their pockets.

How much you want to bet they make the Primaris 3W with 10thEd in a couple years, then send all remaining FB to Legends at the start of 11thEd a couple years after that? It'll give them just enough time to make Primaris copies of every FB unit so they can say they aren't taking any options away while forcing all long time SM players to restart their collection due to all FB models being unplayable. That way they can sell everyone the same products they already had under a slightly new appearance and with Primaris post-it noted into the name.

 SergentSilver wrote:
How much you want to bet they make the Primaris 3W with 10thEd in a couple years, then send all remaining FB to Legends at the start of 11thEd a couple years after that? It'll give them just enough time to make Primaris copies of every FB unit so they can say they aren't taking any options away while forcing all long time SM players to restart their collection due to all FB models being unplayable. That way they can sell everyone the same products they already had under a slightly new appearance and with Primaris post-it noted into the name.

Nah, that would just break the game and risk alienating too many people for no reason.
The simple fact that they gave all marines 2W is a proof that their plan of making "supa marine" didn't worked as well as they hoped and they lost a lot more players in the process than they expected.

I think the obvious path they are going toward is simply to erase the whole distinction between FB and Primaris, just like they removed the distinction between Cataphractii and Tartaros to roll them under the "relic" tag.
A marine will be just a marine again without distinction of generation, the primaris will just be MK10 armor and that's it.

They are probably going to just remove all the FB from sale at some point OR (more probably) use HH2.0 to roll out true scalled FB that are the same size than primaris, because everyone know that the primaris thing has alienated quite a decent chunk of their consumers and the only way to fix that is to bring back the old marin looks.

They may even rerelease the intercessors and other primaris units to make them mixed other mark of armors that have been truescalled, and everyone will pretend the whole primaris thing never really happen, or was just "a new armor type" and nothing much.

Is this the first time we are seeing a primaris Combi-weapon (called auto-plasma in the video)? So basically a plasma gun on top of an auto bolt rifle.

I no see a problem with GW converting all the SM líne into primaris scale outside the change in desing ethos GW has now to not allow compatibility between kits. But that has nothing to do with primaris, they are doing It with everything.

I wouldn't say no to a "Primaris Scout Squad", if only to reduce the amount of man-chin Scouts that exist.

 bullyboy wrote:
Is this the first time we are seeing a primaris Combi-weapon (called auto-plasma in the video)? So basically a plasma gun on top of an auto bolt rifle.

There's also Helbrecht.


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HN wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Screw it i'm gonna say it, imagine being such an entitled Marine player you complain about the Black Templar upgrade sprue after Blood Angels got this.

Oof… ofc you are the kind of people to use words like “entitled” when talking aobut customer/corporation relationship.. Aight I guess that’s the queue to just ignore you then, since you clearly don’t have anything insightful to say. That kind of whataboutism is just mindbogglingly stupid, what you are doing is just helping GW pushing the bare lower and lower.

Yes, because you ARE entitled! And in the way that only Marine players can be. Imagine getting more things for your sub-sub-faction than several actual factions, in addition to the hundreds of recent Marine relases, and all you do in response is whinge and complain.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:
Is this the first time we are seeing a primaris Combi-weapon (called auto-plasma in the video)? So basically a plasma gun on top of an auto bolt rifle.

There's also Helbrecht.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

HN wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Screw it i'm gonna say it, imagine being such an entitled Marine player you complain about the Black Templar upgrade sprue after Blood Angels got this.

Oof… ofc you are the kind of people to use words like “entitled” when talking aobut customer/corporation relationship.. Aight I guess that’s the queue to just ignore you then, since you clearly don’t have anything insightful to say. That kind of whataboutism is just mindbogglingly stupid, what you are doing is just helping GW pushing the bare lower and lower.

Yes, because you ARE entitled! And in the way that only Marine players can be. Imagine getting more things for your sub-sub-faction than several actual factions, in addition to the hundreds of recent Marine relases, and all you do in response is whinge and complain.

Wasn't the current upgrade kit because Templars didn't have any dedicated plastic kits? So they are now replacing it with 2 dedicated Templar infantry kits full of bits AND an upgrade kit in addition to a suite of plastic characters and its not good enough???
Have they shown the sprues yet from the new crusader and sword brethren? Is this not where you'll get your weapons covered in chains etc..To me it looks like you re getting a ton of new bitsto customise your models

BT getting every single one of their Characters redone, getting additional models (2 Castellans) AND a Crusade squad AND a Sword Brethren box AND an upgrade sprue... there is little to complain about from a quantity and quality side.

Everything you had with your Firstborn is now there upscaled with finer details. You can complain about the distribution of bits into different kits, but that is complaining on a very high level.

It is an excellent release for this faction.

a_typical_hero wrote:
BT getting every single one of their Characters redone, getting additional models (2 Castellans) AND a Crusade squad AND a Sword Brethren box AND an upgrade sprue... there is little to complain about from a quantity and quality side.

Just a minor nitpick - they only got the firstborn Castellan. The Primaris Castellan is built from the Sword Brethren box as an option.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I wouldn't say no to a "Primaris Scout Squad", if only to reduce the amount of man-chin Scouts that exist.

It's the rumour that's going to be one of the Kill Team boxes?

Big chungus Castellan confirmed to be Primaris by rhe Warcom team on twitter

chaos0xomega wrote:
Big chungus Castellan confirmed to be Primaris by rhe Warcom team on twitter

Bah! Got a link? (They said yesterday he wasn't, as did Knotley and some other GW staffers...)

beast_gts wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Big chungus Castellan confirmed to be Primaris by rhe Warcom team on twitter

Bah! Got a link? (They said yesterday he wasn't, as did Knotley and some other GW staffers...)

https://twitter.com/WarComTeam/status/1445306325995606017

Have to say I'd love an extra upgrade sprue with relics and extra bits for the xenos factions as well as the marine factions. Could add a lot to existing model ranges.

No idea who Knotley is but it looks like they deleted their posts on the topic, so I'm taking that as further confirmation that its a Primaris mini.

I really wish they would just get rid of the transport restrictions. Then people really wouldn't care if something is Primaris or not.

Aren't we usually warned not to put too much faith in the statements of GW's social media team? This looks like a pretty solid case of them not knowing what's going on. The Castellan's armor doesn't look to have any Mk.X parts.

I guess I can believe it's a Primaris Marine who got stuck trying to wear kiddy Marine armor and was given a plus sized chest plate so he could breathe while the Techmarines figure out how to get him out of it again.


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 Crimson wrote:
I really wish they would just get rid of the transport restrictions. Then people really wouldn't care if something is Primaris or not.

Indeed. This is such nonsense.

I assume the transport restrictions are part of a long-term effort to phase out firstborn and replace the rhino/land raider with Primaris hover-equivalents. Allowing Primaris to hitch a ride in the old transports would throw a wrench in the works as it would mean an uptick in sales in firstborn minis which would result in fans being pissed off that their recently purchased minis are no longer usable.

In any case, I assume the Castellans kit will be labeled as Artificer Armor or something.

I always thought it was so people will buy the hovertanks, as opposed to buying the mini marines as you suggest. Primaris in tracked transport would be the ideal scenario for me (I don't play games so it doesn't actually matter at all, but yeah, I prefer the old tanks + new marines as opposed to the other way around).

chaos0xomega wrote:
No idea who Knotley is but it looks like they deleted their posts on the topic, so I'm taking that as further confirmation that its a Primaris mini.

He's the voice behind the camera for the Live stuff, and yeah - not a good sign when they delete tweets.

 The Phazer wrote:

I wouldn't say no to a "Primaris Scout Squad", if only to reduce the amount of man-chin Scouts that exist.

It's the rumour that's going to be one of the Kill Team boxes?

Rumour started after the Neophytes got revealed and after the Big Rumour got shown to be fairly accurate.

It's a bit of low-hanging fruit though. "Primaris Scouts" have been rumoured since basically day one, usually as a negative thing by people trying to make a case for the squatting of Firstborn. GW's gone out of their way to make it clear that Scouts are still around and that they're supposed to still be closer to their initial format.


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beast_gts wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
No idea who Knotley is but it looks like they deleted their posts on the topic, so I'm taking that as further confirmation that its a Primaris mini.

He's the voice behind the camera for the Live stuff, and yeah - not a good sign when they delete tweets.

He's not a member of the Community team, nor a GW staffer officially. He's the moderator for their livestreams.

Some of the posts were getting trolled hard from what I'd seen.

 silverstu wrote:
Have to say I'd love an extra upgrade sprue with relics and extra bits for the xenos factions as well as the marine factions. Could add a lot to existing model ranges.

Kill team is sort of covering that with those upgrade sprues, but agreed.

Vows!






Now, all you need to do is remember your Space Marine rules, your Chapter rules, your current Combat Doctrine, how your Chapter affects said Combat Doctrine, your Vow, your Passion, the aura from the Warlord Trait, and the Castellan, and the Marshall and the prayer from the Chaplain, and the strat you played at the start of the round! So accessible!!!

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Now, all you need to do is remember your Space Marine rules, your Chapter rules, your current Combat Doctrine, how your Chapter affects said Combat Doctrine, your Vow, your Passion, the aura from the Warlord Trait, and the Castellan, and the Marshall and the prayer from the Chaplain, and the strat you played at the start of the round! So accessible!!!

40k really works better in a simulation where the computer can remember all of that for you.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Now, all you need to do is remember your Space Marine rules, your Chapter rules, your current Combat Doctrine, how your Chapter affects said Combat Doctrine, your Vow, your Passion, the aura from the Warlord Trait, and the Castellan, and the Marshall and the prayer from the Chaplain, and the strat you played at the start of the round! So accessible!!!

40k really works better in a simulation where the computer can remember all of that for you.

I tought the same after playing a necromancer build in Wrath of the Rigtheous. Some Games , like bloodbowl, play much better on computer

#1 issue for 40k atm is that you have too many sources of rules - I don't mean too many rulebooks (though thats a problem too), I just mean that you can generate modifiers, abilities, buffs, etc. from too many places, many of them unintuitive. The worst is things like Canticles and stuff in the Admech codex that change every goddamned round.

Also, Abhor the Witch just seems absolutely awful compared to Accept Any Challenge

It wouldn't bother me if they would just release the burden on the land raider and stormraven. I could care less about rhinos and razorbacks (torn on drop pods, but probably should be allowed too). Primaris crusader squad should be allowed in a damned Land Raider Crusader!!

This Templar release is starting to get a little tough to resist. I might just go for it and build them alongside my current Sacred Rose sisters force, painting them in true Templar colours (white with red cross) to create a sort of cohesive force if I ever want to use them together narratively. I do have a few units marines unaccounted for that could work with them (Land Raider, 5 assault terms) to cutback on how much I add.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Yes, because you ARE entitled! And in the way that only Marine players can be. Imagine getting more things for your sub-sub-faction than several actual factions, in addition to the hundreds of recent Marine relases, and all you do in response is whinge and complain.

Honestly, IDK... yeah, marine players can seem and be entitled, but

1-the comparison to the BA and other first primaris wave is... shaky. IMHO it's pretty clear at that point they were most interested in rationalizing the SM line, players didn't react well with spending, and we've been seeing years of backpedaling, returning to stuff like crazy-ornate storm shields and other grimdark do-dads, and now full marine faction-themed kits, and marines have for ages had the disproportionate number of those: this isn't so much BA players were happy with it, as they weren't and it's a return to years of conditioned expectation (or, phrased above, entitlement)

2- It's been a very, very long time since BT were a "sub-sub-faction." They had part of a mini-dex, 1 (or was it 3 early on?) special characters, 2 special units, the game box/book art, and a significant role in a global campaign/narrative back in 3rd edition. And before comparisons get started, those mini-dex lists have, like BT, expanded dramatically over the years and all started pretty modestly re: rules and design space. And that was what, 20-25 years ago those started?

The point being, maybe in terms of a strict interpretation of "sub-sub-faction" yeah I guess they and the posterboys of 1st are sub-sub of the sub-fists, but in terms of narrative and table presence, they certainly haven't been minor players. I don't think it's unreasonable to see their characters updated, and get some updated models, and then you're really just talking about someone who felt those didn't match what they felt were those details, noting that it will probably be quite a while before we see anything else for the army so this is what they've got.

chaos0xomega wrote:
#1 issue for 40k atm is that you have too many sources of rules - I don't mean too many rulebooks (though thats a problem too), I just mean that you can generate modifiers, abilities, buffs, etc. from too many places, many of them unintuitive. The worst is things like Canticles and stuff in the Admech codex that change every goddamned round.

Also, Abhor the Witch just seems absolutely awful compared to Accept Any Challenge

Well i can see use for it in some matchups and as you know opponent when you decide it's easy enough to use it when it's worth it.

tneva82 wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
#1 issue for 40k atm is that you have too many sources of rules - I don't mean too many rulebooks (though thats a problem too), I just mean that you can generate modifiers, abilities, buffs, etc. from too many places, many of them unintuitive. The worst is things like Canticles and stuff in the Admech codex that change every goddamned round.

Also, Abhor the Witch just seems absolutely awful compared to Accept Any Challenge

Well i can see use for it in some matchups and as you know opponent when you decide it's easy enough to use it when it's worth it.

Question is, is it ever worth it? Is +3 move ONCE per game worth giving your opponent the ability to turn off all your actions just for units existing? That it works only in the first movement phase and not later when you can steal objectives or something makes it even worse.

Re-roll 1s to wound on psykers is trivial or redundant (to more universal abilities that marines can just get), so will almost never matter.

It wouldn't bother me if they would just release the burden on the land raider and stormraven. I could care less about rhinos and razorbacks (torn on drop pods, but probably should be allowed too).

Well, since the novels have primaris using drops pods... probably should, yes.