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Getting increasingly annoyed at not being able to take my Iron Hands relic axe on a primaris marine (the primaris techmarine’s axe isn’t a “power axe” for relic purposes). And seeing lightning claws on primaris BT before raven guard can use them on primaris is lulz.

Just “annoyed”, mind you. It’s a very minor thing in the grand scheme lol.

Pretty happy for BT players though. They are getting gobs of primaris (is the new LT primaris?) goodies and general update. These kits look pretty cool to me. I’d love a multimelta on a repulsor in my Iron Hands :(.

Overall, a lot more than I expected for BT, which is very nice, given that they're one of the first armies I considered starting alongside Orks and Guard way back in 5th ed. Definitely a mixed bag though with the iffy early release box, and some weird sculpting decisions but overall I would give it a solid 7.5/10 release. There's some real home runs like Helbrecht, alongside some underwhelming sculpts like the neophytes but I certainly will take more rather than less. Also good to see more variety in power weapons being sprinkled into primaris kits, I always found it quite jarring to see only swords and fists basically be the only power weapon mainstays of Primaris units.

As far as rules go, I'm glad to see they kept vows in some capacity, though the psyker one looks pretty meh overall compared to the one that lets you get assault doctrine all day, every day.

Quasistellar wrote:
Getting increasingly annoyed at not being able to take my Iron Hands relic axe on a primaris marine (the primaris techmarine’s axe isn’t a “power axe” for relic purposes). And seeing lightning claws on primaris BT before raven guard can use them on primaris is lulz.

Don't forget plastic Servitors with a frickin' Chaplain before Servitors for a Techpriest Enginseer.

Lightning claws on Primaris BT before Raven Guard, coupled with two 'retinue' styled releases when RG got Shrike as their new Chapter Master is a bit of a silly thing to be frank.

Just “annoyed”, mind you. It’s a very minor thing in the grand scheme lol.

Pretty happy for BT players though. They are getting gobs of primaris (is the new LT primaris?) goodies and general update. These kits look pretty cool to me. I’d love a multimelta on a repulsor in my Iron Hands :(.

There's apparently two Castellans. We'll have to wait to see the book to see 100% on it.

I'm having a hard time being super happy for the BT players, given how gripey some of the local ones were about the addition of Raven Guard accessory sprues and a Primaris Shrike.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Also, Abhor the Witch just seems absolutely awful compared to Accept Any Challenge

The more things change...


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Never paid attention to Templars before, but based on yours and other responses I'm guessing that its always sucked.

Really impressed with the designs of these Black Templars, using the old artwork as the basis of the designs is a smart move, and hope this continues into future chaos and elder releases.

Quasistellar wrote:
Getting increasingly annoyed at not being able to take my Iron Hands relic axe on a primaris marine (the primaris techmarine’s axe isn’t a “power axe” for relic purposes). And seeing lightning claws on primaris BT before raven guard can use them on primaris is lulz.

Just “annoyed”, mind you. It’s a very minor thing in the grand scheme lol.

Pretty happy for BT players though. They are getting gobs of primaris (is the new LT primaris?) goodies and general update. These kits look pretty cool to me. I’d love a multimelta on a repulsor in my Iron Hands :(.

One of the worst part of the primaris line over all is how poorly GW did its job at giving them the usual (and often iconic) weapons you can expect from the average marines.
The simple fact that they had to wait a full edition to get their most basic mele weapon, the chainsword, is mindblowing.

They are only now getting flamers, power fists are still almost non existant and the claws just showed up for the first time since Shriek.
Feels like GW thought pushing the marines onto a fully ranged faction with almost no wargear option was a good idea... because yaknow GLORIOUS MELE COMBAT or fully customized unit is clearly not what makes them cool. Nah, apparently what we wanted was some Halo wanabe. Hell, we even got a dune buggy!


Instead they have invented a bunch of new units, all more ridiculous than the last.

And they still don't have an assault jet pack unit (I'll be honest, I'm still pretty shocked that they didn't thought adding jetpack on the sprues of the assault intercessors would be a good idea.

I thought the worst part of Primaris line is that there's hundreds of the bastards and half of them look identical.

HN wrote:

Quasistellar wrote:
Getting increasingly annoyed at not being able to take my Iron Hands relic axe on a primaris marine (the primaris techmarine’s axe isn’t a “power axe” for relic purposes). And seeing lightning claws on primaris BT before raven guard can use them on primaris is lulz.

Just “annoyed”, mind you. It’s a very minor thing in the grand scheme lol.

Pretty happy for BT players though. They are getting gobs of primaris (is the new LT primaris?) goodies and general update. These kits look pretty cool to me. I’d love a multimelta on a repulsor in my Iron Hands :(.

One of the worst part of the primaris line over all is how poorly GW did its job at giving them the usual (and often iconic) weapons you can expect from the average marines.
The simple fact that they had to wait a full edition to get their most basic mele weapon, the chainsword, is mindblowing.

They are only now getting flamers, power fists are still almost non existant and the claws just showed up for the first time since Shriek.
Feels like GW thought pushing the marines onto a fully ranged faction with almost no wargear option was a good idea... because yaknow GLORIOUS MELE COMBAT or fully customized unit is clearly not what makes them cool. Nah, apparently what we wanted was some Halo wanabe. Hell, we even got a dune buggy!


Instead they have invented a bunch of new units, all more ridiculous than the last.

And they still don't have an assault jet pack unit (I'll be honest, I'm still pretty shocked that they didn't thought adding jetpack on the sprues of the assault intercessors would be a good idea.

The first captain ever released for primaris has a power fist. There's a powerfist in the assault intercessors, on multiple hqs, on aggressors as well.

Flamestorm aggressors? Flamers on redemptors? Flamers aren't as hard to find as you think.

Fluff wise they're monopurpose and loadout to give focus to the unit much like in the heresy thanks to gmans tweaking.

They have reasonable melee primaris units now, there's a gap for a jump melee unit though for sure, but the rest of it is barely correct.

Dudeface wrote:
The first captain ever released for primaris has a power fist. There's a powerfist in the assault intercessors, on multiple hqs, on aggressors as well.

I know. That's why I specifically said "almost non existant". The first one one of these weapons most SM sergent or character could take, now it's only present on a specific unit and very few other cases on standard marines.

Dudeface wrote:
Flamestorm aggressors? Flamers on redemptors? Flamers aren't as hard to find as you think.

Again, outside of the agressors and one random on he dread, no standard marines have it.

Hell, another "iconic" weapon they had, the heavybolter, never returned as a weapon used by a marine, which is a huge shame.

Dudeface wrote:
Fluff wise they're monopurpose and loadout to give focus to the unit much like in the heresy thanks to gmans tweaking.

They have reasonable melee primaris units now, there's a gap for a jump melee unit though for sure, but the rest of it is barely correct.

The problem is, as with everything related to the primaris, the strangely limited number of gears they have (mostly due to the fact that they are a concept born from the aborted AoS40k that was supposed to come after gathering storm).

They all look the same, and they all use the same weapons, which is basically the exact opposite of what the marines were before, and what made most of their appeal.
Sure, it's getting better... kinda. But until they just redo the "intercessors" to make them more modular and less "monopurpose", the primaris wills still have a long way to go.

I thought the point of not giving them the iconic weapons and their own instead was so it was not as easy to just carry on using the same models and say -"yeah they are Primaris" which is surely the main reason for Primaris to seel a new range of Marines to those who already have the whole previous range?

I can't believe you're making me defend Primaris but- no, they don't all look the same, and they don't all use the same weapons. Most Primaris units actually look kinda distinct between each other (don't tell me anyone would confuse an Agressor for an Intercessor), and one of their most defining features compared to their Firstborn predecessors is that they field lots of diffrent squads specialized in diffrent weapons, Eldar-style. Y'know Eliminators, Hellblasters, Eradicators, Intercessors etc.?

 Mr Morden wrote:
I thought the point of not giving them the iconic weapons and their own instead was so it was not as easy to just carry on using the same models and say -"yeah they are Primaris" which is surely the main reason for Primaris to seel a new range of Marines to those who already have the whole previous range?

That's also a good point yeah, and its pretty clear that it didn't worked. People want their marine to be marines, not generic space soldier.

And if the new "primaris Schrödinger" castelan of the BT is any indication, it may be a sign that GW finally abandoned the idea and is starting to prepare to just drop the "primaris/FB" distinction altogether and just threat the primaris (to clean up a bit the bloated mess that has become the astartes codex) as yet another interchangeable armor mark with the previous generations that will be upscalled (HH 2.0 will be the perfect excuse to release upscalled FB).

We'll see where it goes, but I would really, REALLY not be surprised if 10ed open with "new scouts", "new terminators" (both being just simple upscales) and some form of welcomed merging of the datasheets of the primaris and FB, with maybe a update of the intercessor sprues to contain more gear options and some older mark of armor (upscalled too).

And then the topic of "primaris" will never be talked about again, which will be for the better.

Probably wishful thinking, but I really think this is the best way forward.



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 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
I can't believe you're making me defend Primaris but- no, they don't all look the same, and they don't all use the same weapons. Most Primaris units actually look kinda distinct between each other (don't tell me anyone would confuse an Agressor for an Intercessor), and one of their most defining features compared to their Firstborn predecessors is that they field lots of diffrent squads specialized in diffrent weapons, Eldar-style. Y'know Eliminators, Hellblasters, Eradicators, Intercessors etc.?

For someone that would love to be a "black knight" you've only be doing white knighting as of late.

Yes. I know each unit "kinda look distinct", LITERALLY because they use different armor type, I'm not blind and I don't even understand why you thought that was a point that even needed to be made.
And this sudden decision to create new armors for each and every roles is yet another dump taken over the lore and the feel of the faction (as you said yourself, that's an eldar thing, not a marines thing).

But once you've stopped trying to compare units that have been intentionally designed to not be compatible (for obvious marketing reasons) and look at one unit in particular (as I'm sure you knew I was talking about) then yes, all the primaris look exactly the same, to the point that they are the only mark of armor that have ONE type of helmet (outside of the very punctual special character, I have to precise because I see you coming) outside of the Sergent that got a tiny skull on the forehead, where every other mark of armor before that had some tiny variant, some time rather subtle, to break the monotony.
Hell, even simple stuff that aren't tied to the armor function like chest plate decoration is out of the table for the primaris so far. EVERYONE has to have the winged skull.

Same for the back pack, same for the legs.
No variation, only the same, again and again and again.

 Mr Morden wrote:
I thought the point of not giving them the iconic weapons and their own instead was so it was not as easy to just carry on using the same models and say -"yeah they are Primaris" which is surely the main reason for Primaris to seel a new range of Marines to those who already have the whole previous range?

The original purpose of Primaris was more insidious than that. People can still use the old models now, they even have rules. Primaris probably would've gone over even better if they copied Firstborn loadouts/designs from the start.

It seems obvious they were pushing for a total reboot of 40K, I'm not even sure if they've abandoned the idea. There are too many mixed messages from GW and 40k is becoming a bloated mess of models and rules.

If you follow the timeline the reason why they abandonned the idea is rather obvious:

The guy in charge at the time, the one responsible for the canning of Fantasy, the creation of AoS and the Gathering Stom event got kicked the feth out of GW after AoS landed and got roasted to back and hell.

At this point the GS was already rolling out and the primaris were already out of the bag so it was to late for them, but stuff like the merging of all eldars under the Ynarii was just killed in the egg (and that's why they'll never be a thing).

They wanted to create a new line of Marines because Marines sell and they were running out of room to release new things.

People also wanted better scales Marines.

They couldn't just invalidate people's entire armies because they'd never have heard the end of it and it would have created massive ill will that would have made killing WFB look like a picnic.

Thus a new slightly bigger and better proportioned version of Marines came to life. Its not rebooting 40k, its rebooting Marines and creating space for their next decade of releases.

[quote=[HN] 800235 11231808 null]
At this point the GS was already rolling out and the primaris were already out of the bag so it was to late for them, but stuff like the merging of all eldars under the Ynarii was just killed in the egg (and that's why they'll never be a thing).

HN wrote:

That's also a good point yeah, and its pretty clear that it didn't worked. People want their marine to be marines, not generic space soldier.

And if the new "primaris Schrödinger" castelan of the BT is any indication, it may be a sign that GW finally abandoned the idea and is starting to prepare to just drop the "primaris/FB" distinction altogether and just threat the primaris (to clean up a bit the bloated mess that has become the astartes codex) as yet another interchangeable armor mark with the previous generations that will be upscalled (HH 2.0 will be the perfect excuse to release upscalled FB).

Just want to say that models are done years in advance. The painter of the new Crowe model said he painted it three years ago iirc.

I don't think GW had the plan to drop the distinction in 2018 when Primaries were still super new and barely explored.

Goose LeChance wrote:


Nah it was a full on AoS style reboot, whether it's been cancelled or they're just boiling the frog is another story

That's just nonsense though. Obviously untrue.

When Wha-Mu-77 is defending GW you know someone is clearly on the wrong with their criticism here.

He's just anti Space Meanies

Vorian wrote:
That's just nonsense though. Obviously untrue.

Obviously untrue?

chaos0xomega wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:
Also, Abhor the Witch just seems absolutely awful compared to Accept Any Challenge

The more things change...


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Never paid attention to Templars before, but based on yours and other responses I'm guessing that its always sucked.

Black Templar Vows in previous editions were poorly balanced. Typically, there was one that was good, one that was somewhat good and/or situational, and two that were bad.

HN wrote:


But once you've stopped trying to compare units that have been intentionally designed to not be compatible (for obvious marketing reasons) and look at one unit in particular (as I'm sure you knew I was talking about) then yes, all the primaris look exactly the same, to the point that they are the only mark of armor that have ONE type of helmet (outside of the very punctual special character, I have to precise because I see you coming) outside of the Sergent that got a tiny skull on the forehead, where every other mark of armor before that had some tiny variant, some time rather subtle, to break the monotony.
Hell, even simple stuff that aren't tied to the armor function like chest plate decoration is out of the table for the primaris so far. EVERYONE has to have the winged skull.

Same for the back pack, same for the legs.
No variation, only the same, again and again and again.

You know all marine armors are like that, don't you? They have one type of helmet, of backpack, of chest, etc... The variety comes from mixing different types of armour in older kits.

You had in some cases special types of helmets like GK or DA or BT knightly like ones that were not tied to a mark of armor, but standarized, all marks of armor have one type of helmet, one type of shoulderpads, etc...

 Galas wrote:
The variety comes from mixing different types of armour in older kits.

Sadly those days are dwindling...

HN wrote:

Hell, even simple stuff that aren't tied to the armor function like chest plate decoration is out of the table for the primaris so far. EVERYONE has to have the winged skull.

Except, y'know, most Chapter unique models. Or everyone in Phobos Armour.

a_typical_hero wrote:
Just want to say that models are done years in advance. The painter of the new Crowne model said he painted it three years ago iirc.

I know, and that's why they couldn't cancel the primaris, it was way too late. So they just rolled with it, and it obviously didn't worked so well.

a_typical_hero wrote:
I don't think GW had the plan to drop the distinction in 2018 when Primaries were still super new and barely explored.

They may have, but they didn't. In the end they went the greendy way and proceeded with the original plan of rolling a new line that was meant to totally replace the old one.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Nah it was a full on AoS style reboot, whether it's been cancelled or they're just boiling the frog is another story

That's not the case. Not "really".
The plan was obviously to make "AoS40k" by shifting the timeline, totally redoing the posterboys marines and merging the eldars, but it would have been more a soft reboot than a hard one, which is smarter tbh.

 Galas wrote:

You know all marine armors are like that, don't you? They have one type of helmet, of backpack, of chest, etc... The variety comes from mixing different types of armour in older kits.

So... you haven't read my post right?

Because as I just said, what you said is obviously untrue.
There's at least 2 or 3 variant of each mark of helmets, and the fact that you don't seem to know that is... interesting to say the least.

 Galas wrote:
You had in some cases special types of helmets like GK or DA or BT knightly like ones that were not tied to a mark of armor, but standarized, all marks of armor have one type of helmet, one type of shoulderpads, etc...

Hell, even the GK have different helmet variants, I know, I've spend the last month cleaning a batch of 200 FB helmets.

But Primaris also have different helmet variants? Tacticus Mark X armor has the Bladeguard and the Intercessor varietyes for example.

The Phobos armour haves reiver, incursor and the third ones, each one with different helmets.

And I don't know if gravis has different types of helmets.

And in 5 years primaris will have even more distinc types of their armours, just like normal marines.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Except, y'know, most Chapter unique models. Or everyone in Phobos Armour.

Still quote mining and answering with nonsens I see?
"Nuhuuu they aint all the same, lookat the special characters!" (bro, I can't believe you unironically pulled that one) "and look at that mark of armor that is totally different and dont have the same skull and wing, instead they ALL alf skull and bones" (you realize that the point I was making was that every primaris type of armors come in ONE flavor and one flavor only, right?).

You are just embarrassing yourself at this point and should just quite.


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 Galas wrote:
But Primaris also have different helmet variants? Tacticus Mark X armor has the Bladeguard and the Intercessor varietyes for example.

The Phobos armour haves reiver, incursor and the third ones, each one with different helmets.

And I don't know if gravis has different types of helmets.

And in 5 years primaris will have even more distinc types of their armours, just like normal marines.

Hot damn, here comes the second part of the duo.

Yes. As I've already said, primaris have different type of armors, but when you take one type (phobos, heavy, etc etc) they are all THE SAME.

HN wrote:

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 Galas wrote:
But Primaris also have different helmet variants? Tacticus Mark X armor has the Bladeguard and the Intercessor varietyes for example.

The Phobos armour haves reiver, incursor and the third ones, each one with different helmets.

And I don't know if gravis has different types of helmets.

And in 5 years primaris will have even more distinc types of their armours, just like normal marines.

Hot damn, here come the second part of the duo.

Yes. As I've already said, primaris have different type of armors, but when you take one type (phobos, heavy, etc etc) they are all THE SAME.

He literally just said Phobos armour looks diffrent between units, despite the fact it's the same type. I mean you're not gonna tell me Eliminators, Reivers and the Phobos Librarian look THE SAME, are you? They're both Phobos.

[HN] you are complaining that all primaris armors are the same... because they all have an aquila on the chest...

And you say that I'm wrong when I say thats has been the fluff forever, and if in the tactical squad you have different chest pieces is because they are from different marks of armor...


But the MKVII is literally called the "Aquila" patern because all of them have an aquila in the chest? Are you sure I'm the one that doesnt know his own fluff?