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 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Not if you never buy GW terrain or rulebooks

Goose LeChance wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Not if you never buy GW terrain or rulebooks

Boxed sets may be a discount compared with regular GW prices. But those prices are astronomical to begin with- often even discounts don't bring them down to reality.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Not if you never buy GW terrain or rulebooks

That... that wouldn't make any difference at all, so no.

Yeah Bolt Action Starter sets are twice the content for half the price. I'm sure I could browse any online store and find every competitor offering better value.

KT shares the same high price tag as Indomitus but contains 22 models.

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yeah Bolt Action Starter sets are twice the content for half the price. I'm sure I could browse any online store and find every competitor offering better value.

And again, that really doesn't have anything to do with the statement that the Octatrius box will be a significant discount to when its contents are released separately.

Goose LeChance wrote:
KT shares the same high price tag as Indomitus but contains 22 models.

And tons of terrain. Did you miss that, or this you being intentionally disingenuous?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Given GW prices, I don't see boxes like this as a discount. It's more like this is what it should cost, and when everything comes out separately that's like a punishment or fine for not buying it as a bundle

It reminds me a bit of shops that consistently have "discounts" on certain items, you know in reality the "discount" price is the real price and the "normal" price is actually the "feth you" price. In Australia we have automotive supplies stores like that, Supercheap Auto, Autobarn, etc, their baseline prices are such a rip off that I hardly consider their sales as a discount.

Well, it's a much better deal than Pariah if you only look at model count, and the terrain and mat is also an upgrade for not that huge a price gap between the two.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Given GW prices, I don't see boxes like this as a discount. It's more like this is what it should cost, and when everything comes out separately that's like a punishment or fine for not buying it as a bundle

It reminds me a bit of shops that consistently have "discounts" on certain items, you know in reality the "discount" price is the real price and the "normal" price is actually the "feth you" price. In Australia we have automotive supplies stores like that, Supercheap Auto, Autobarn, etc, their baseline prices are such a rip off that I hardly consider their frequent sales as a discount.

In any case if you don't see the big box as discount and won't mind losing it then you aren't buying individual either and then you aren't on the FOMO target group anyway as you are just going to ignore the product entirely.

If you want the game and don't want to pay individual prices then there's discount to be had and thus FOMO applies as you will lose that if you don't get the big box. At which point scalpers can still make money.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
Yeah Bolt Action Starter sets are twice the content for half the price. I'm sure I could browse any online store and find every competitor offering better value.

And again, that really doesn't have anything to do with the statement that the Octatrius box will be a significant discount to when its contents are released separately.

Goose LeChance wrote:
KT shares the same high price tag as Indomitus but contains 22 models.

And tons of terrain. Did you miss that, or this you being intentionally disingenuous?

No, I'm genuine in my belief that I will save more money by not buying the Kill Team boxset than I would by buying it.

I'll save about 100$ after buying the units separately, possibly more if they don't charge the maximum price for units (or set a new standard)

Calling it "not much of a discount" is a cheeky joke more than anything, but also true in my case. I'll play Nu-Kill Team eventually, without cost.

Black knight logic at it's best.

"Even if you wanted everything in that box anyways and the separate parts are going to cost much more than the box, it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models."

Battlezone boxes with similar amounts of content cost 120€, both orks and DKOK will be at least 30€, possibly up to 40€. Even if you don't give a gak about killteam, you still get a good deal.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Well from the perspective of AU prices everything is always a discount

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When everything comes out separately, you'll see that it really was at a discount.

Given GW prices, I don't see boxes like this as a discount. It's more like this is what it should cost, and when everything comes out separately that's like a punishment or fine for not buying it as a bundle

It reminds me a bit of shops that consistently have "discounts" on certain items, you know in reality the "discount" price is the real price and the "normal" price is actually the "feth you" price. In Australia we have automotive supplies stores like that, Supercheap Auto, Autobarn, etc, their baseline prices are such a rip off that I hardly consider their frequent sales as a discount.

In any case if you don't see the big box as discount and won't mind losing it then you aren't buying individual either and then you aren't on the FOMO target group anyway as you are just going to ignore the product entirely.

If you want the game and don't want to pay individual prices then there's discount to be had and thus FOMO applies as you will lose that if you don't get the big box. At which point scalpers can still make money.

I think for a lot of people (certainly me) I see the discount boxes as the "correct price" boxes rather than a discount in that there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd buy all that junk at individual prices.

If I missed the Octarius I simply wouldn't have bought into KT, the price of the rulebook and compendium by themselves is absurd and from my understanding they don't even contain the rules for the DKOK and only very simplistic rules for everyone else.

Hell, I probably wouldn't have bought the box at all if it weren't for the DKOK, so in that sense rather than a "discount" it's more of an "upsell" box It's like I'm paying extra over an individual box of DKOK to get a bunch of terrain, Orks and rules that I could totally live without.

I think it's totally fair for someone to laugh at the idea of a box like this being a "discount", people have a sense of value and that varies from person to person, if you feel the price of the models is inflated relative to their worth, it doesn't feel like much of a discount even though it might technically be cheaper than what GW charge for the individual pieces.

 Jidmah wrote:
Black knight logic at it's best.

"Even if you wanted everything in that box anyways and the separate parts are going to cost much more than the box, it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models."

Who are you talking about?

I want the models, even the Kommandos. I'm going to buy an entire 40k army of plastic Krieg if GW sells them. The terrain and rulebooks can burn in a tire fire for all I care.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I think it's totally fair for someone to laugh at the idea of a box like this being a "discount", people have a sense of value and that varies from person to person, if you feel the price of the models is inflated relative to their worth, it doesn't feel like much of a discount even though it might technically be cheaper than what GW charge for the individual pieces.

 Jidmah wrote:
"Even if you wanted everything in that box anyways and the separate parts are going to cost much more than the box, it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models."

"it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models GW's standard prices are insane."

Even if you don't give a gak about killteam, you still get a good deal.

"Good deal" only if you think GW's standard prices aren't a terrible deal to start with.

There's a group of people, me included, who has enough hobby money to splurge on a GW product whilst also thinking GW products are a rip off.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I think for a lot of people (certainly me) I see the discount boxes as the "correct price" boxes rather than a discount in that there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd buy all that junk at individual prices.

At which point we are back to FOMO being there as you either buy this NOW or you miss out. So scalpers have room to make money. And back to there being something to be lost(discount) from not buying it NOW when it's still available.

FOMO.

It's dishonest claiming you aren't missing on anything because everything is coming separately later. There's still one thing which is the biggest reason for these boxes. Discount. If you don't get this now while you can you either won't get the contents ever or pay lot higher price.

To me the perceived discount depends on what you really want from the box. If you just want the minis you'll be better off waiting for them to release separately. If you want minis + terrain or minis + rulebook it's still probably worth it, even if you can't be bothered to sell the extras. If you want everything in the box is quite good value (accounting for GW's prices).

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I think for a lot of people (certainly me) I see the discount boxes as the "correct price" boxes rather than a discount in that there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd buy all that junk at individual prices.

At which point we are back to FOMO being there as you either buy this NOW or you miss out. So scalpers have room to make money. And back to there being something to be lost(discount) from not buying it NOW when it's still available.

FOMO.

It's dishonest claiming you aren't missing on anything because everything is coming separately later. There's still one thing which is the biggest reason for these boxes. Discount. If you don't get this now while you can you either won't get the contents ever or pay lot higher price.

So if it wasn't limited, they wouldn't buy it?

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:
"Even if you wanted everything in that box anyways and the separate parts are going to cost much more than the box, it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models."

"it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models GW's standard prices are insane."

That's not how it works. I think you are confusing getting a discount with saving money.

If you buy three bottles of coke to get one free, that's a discount. You are just not saving money because you originally weren't going to buy four bottles of coke and end up spending more. That's the effect what you are referring to.
If you buy a bottle of coke and you get 30% off, that's still a discount, even if the store is still making money of that bottle.

First of all, whenever you buy anything 40k related, you are never saving money ever
Second, if the box is less moneys than the moneys of the content combined, that's a discount. Sure, I wouldn't be saving any money if I didn't intend to buy the kommandoz, DKOK and the terrain anyways, but I do.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
There's a group of people, me included, who has enough hobby money to splurge on a GW product whilst also thinking GW products are a rip off.

You seem to be under the impression that "good deal" and "discount" should be connected to "cheap". It's not.
I want those specific kommandoz because of their sculpts and that terrain isn't vastly more expensive than comparable stuff from other companies. There is no way to get either for non-GW prices.

Since GW's pricing policies apply to both the box and the separate pieces, you are just needlessly being negative about GW's prices in an unrelated topic.

Eh, I may think the arguments veer into hyperbole but I feel the price vs value discussion is relevant to the topic at hand. It ties directly into demand & scalping which is what the MTO promise is all about.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Eh, I may think the arguments veer into hyperbole but I feel the price vs value discussion is relevant to the topic at hand. It ties directly into demand & scalping which is what the MTO promise is all about.

Do we really need another ten pages of thread to find out once again that prices of a luxury good are solely decided by how much people are willing to pay?

Must resist.. urge to... spend.. 239$ monopoly money on 10 plastic Krieg.... I've waited...so long...

It was a rough weekend for me

 Jidmah wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
Eh, I may think the arguments veer into hyperbole but I feel the price vs value discussion is relevant to the topic at hand. It ties directly into demand & scalping which is what the MTO promise is all about.

Do we really need another ten pages of thread to find out once again that prices of a luxury good are solely decided by how much people are willing to pay?

Counterpoint; do we really need any of the discussion that has happened in this thread?

tneva82 wrote:

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

I think for a lot of people (certainly me) I see the discount boxes as the "correct price" boxes rather than a discount in that there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd buy all that junk at individual prices.

At which point we are back to FOMO being there as you either buy this NOW or you miss out. So scalpers have room to make money. And back to there being something to be lost(discount) from not buying it NOW when it's still available.

I'd say they don't have much room to make money on this one, if a person thinks there's no point buying it individually because it's not worth the individual price GW will ask, then they're also not going to buy stuff for scalper prices either.

If I were a scalper, I'd probably be staying away from this one because people are unlikely to pay big money for the terrain and that's a big part of the price of the box.

It's dishonest claiming you aren't missing on anything because everything is coming separately later. There's still one thing which is the biggest reason for these boxes. Discount. If you don't get this now while you can you either won't get the contents ever or pay lot higher price.

It's all a matter of perspective, if I didn't grab the box now I'd hardly feel like I'm missing out on anything, because I wouldn't buy at the individual prices and I wouldn't be crying if I didn't get it. There's other things I can spend my money on.

The bundle price just brings it down to the point where I'll consider it.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:
You seem to be under the impression that "good deal" and "discount" should be connected to "cheap". It's not.

No, it's just a matter of perspective in terms of what you take as a reference price.

You're taking the individual prices as your reference and calling the box a discount. In my thinking the box is roughly the correct price and taking that as my reference, in which case the individual prices are inflated.

you are just needlessly being negative about GW's prices in an unrelated topic.

I don't think I was the one who brought up prices.

 Jidmah wrote:
Black knight logic at it's best.

"Even if you wanted everything in that box anyways and the separate parts are going to cost much more than the box, it's not a discount since you should never buy GW models."

I'm literally arguing the opposite; that the separate components will cost far more than when combined in the Octarius box and that if you want everything in the box, then getting the box is the best option.

But then again, I'm not a black knight. I'm a dark knight.

Goose LeChance wrote:
No, I'm genuine in my belief that I will save more money by not buying the Kill Team boxset than I would by buying it.

That's not the same thing. Of course by not purchasing something vs purchasing something you 'save' money. What an irrelevant point.

Goose LeChance wrote:
I'll save about 100$ after buying the units separately, possibly more if they don't charge the maximum price for units (or set a new standard)

So you can purchase the Kriegers, the Kommandos, the rulebook, Octarius book, counters, dice, cards, mats, measurement device/barricade sprue and the terrain separately and save about $100? Who is selling these to you at such prices?

Goose LeChance wrote:
I want the models, even the Kommandos. I'm going to buy an entire 40k army of plastic Krieg if GW sells them. The terrain and rulebooks can burn in a tire fire for all I care.

Then you're comparing apples and carburettors! If you don't want a significant portion of the box's contents (which the terrain is at least half), and have no desire to make the effort to sell the extra components, then no gak the box isn't worth it. Duh.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:
Given GW prices, I don't see boxes like this as a discount. It's more like this is what it should cost, and when everything comes out separately that's like a punishment or fine for not buying it as a bundle

Oh I agree, but that's why I buy these things. It has terrain. It has lots of terrain. Terrain that will cost about 2/3rds to 3/4ths the cost of the whole Octarius box when released separately, so why would I not get the box when I'm getting all the terrain I want plus tons more stuff, for not much more?

And that's before I go and get it for 25% off.

It's the same reason I bought two Dark Uprising boxes the second GW announced the pretty pathetic new Necromunda starter with the Eschers and not-Delaques: You get a ton of terrain in DU, and trying to buy that separately costs way too much. Plus a got a million Enforcers and Khorne guys out of it!

Goose LeChance wrote:
Must resist.. urge to... spend.. 239$ monopoly money on 10 plastic Krieg.... I've waited...so long...

It was a rough weekend for me

Wargames Atlantic.

Box of Les Grognards.

Box of WW1 Germans.

Kiitbash to your hearts content with 24 Death Korps of Krieg at the end of it.




Not sure of the prices in your fine land but unless you need to have the official models, it's an option.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
I'll save about 100$ after buying the units separately, possibly more if they don't charge the maximum price for units (or set a new standard)

So you can purchase the Kriegers, the Kommandos, the rulebook, Octarius book, counters, dice, cards, mats, measurement device/barricade sprue and the terrain separately and save about $100? Who is selling these to you at such prices?

No, most of that stuff is free to all freedom lovers. Having an established group to play with outside of GWs influence helps.

I feel terrible for new people entering the hobby(tm) and their first pack of dice(tm) and glue(tm) are straight from GW, but I doubt many of them are buying these boxes and It's not our problem. It's GWs.

Goose LeChance wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
I'll save about 100$ after buying the units separately, possibly more if they don't charge the maximum price for units (or set a new standard)

So you can purchase the Kriegers, the Kommandos, the rulebook, Octarius book, counters, dice, cards, mats, measurement device/barricade sprue and the terrain separately and save about $100? Who is selling these to you at such prices?

No, most of that stuff is free to all freedom lovers. Having an established group to play with outside of GWs influence helps.

I feel terrible for new people entering the hobby(tm) and their first pack of dice(tm) and glue(tm) are straight from GW, but I doubt many of them are buying these boxes and It's not our problem. It's GWs.

Hmmm. That sentence does sound like "freedom lover" = "freeloader". Nothing wrong with a community/club sharing resources of course, but that isn't the topic (or at least where the topic has drifted to).

MarkNorfolk wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Goose LeChance wrote:
I'll save about 100$ after buying the units separately, possibly more if they don't charge the maximum price for units (or set a new standard)

So you can purchase the Kriegers, the Kommandos, the rulebook, Octarius book, counters, dice, cards, mats, measurement device/barricade sprue and the terrain separately and save about $100? Who is selling these to you at such prices?

No, most of that stuff is free to all freedom lovers. Having an established group to play with outside of GWs influence helps.

I feel terrible for new people entering the hobby(tm) and their first pack of dice(tm) and glue(tm) are straight from GW, but I doubt many of them are buying these boxes and It's not our problem. It's GWs.

Hmmm. That sentence does sound like "freedom lover" = "freeloader". Nothing wrong with a community/club sharing resources of course, but that isn't the topic (or at least where the topic has drifted to).

Everything in Kill Team can be made yourself. You can make your own terrain, your own markers/etc. I'm not sure how that's being a freeloader, you don't even need the models unless you really like the look of them.

The only thing you absolutely need to play the New Kill Team is rules and cards.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:


I think for a lot of people (certainly me) I see the discount boxes as the "correct price" boxes rather than a discount in that there's not a snowball's chance in hell I'd buy all that junk at individual prices.

If I missed the Octarius I simply wouldn't have bought into KT, the price of the rulebook and compendium by themselves is absurd and from my understanding they don't even contain the rules for the DKOK and only very simplistic rules for everyone else.

Definitely true for me. I need 3 units of Ork Kommandoz, I also want at least 3 units of DKoK, and I want a full tables worth of that terrain. I will never buy them at their individual kit prices (I'm guessing $50-60 for each unit, the terrain is probably another $80-100). The combined discount price on the other hand makes it worthwhile, especially factoring in I can get it 25% off (former employee discount at my local), and that I can sell the extra copies of the rulebook for probably around $35 each for the core rules and $20 for the Octarius booklet (since people seem concerned that they won't be able to get that otherwise). All said and done, assuming I pull an extra $50 for those books, etc. it works out that I'm only probably paying about $20-30 per unit and $40-60 for the terrain. More than a reasonable price for that stuff and much more agreeable than what GW actually wants me to pay.

Definitely a good deal, at least for me.

Goose LeChance wrote:

Everything in Kill Team can be made yourself. You can make your own terrain, your own markers/etc. I'm not sure how that's being a freeloader, you don't even need the models unless you really like the look of them.

The only thing you absolutely need to play the New Kill Team is rules and cards.

You are paying for them though. For one making terrain on your own especially if you are doing it just for one board gets surprisingly expensive to start with. You are also paying in time. And in looks.