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Greenblood wrote:
So I asked had anyone actually tried it in 9th and the answers I got essentially amounted to a resounding no.
I admit I was skeptical of it when I read the new codex. I came here to say after play testing it against a lot of different opponents it actually works surprisingly well. Better than in 8th edition when it was very good.
People are counter arguing points I never made. I never advocating to wrap units. I never said stormboyz and kommandos aren’t good they are boyz I’m here saying boyz are good. I’m not sure what you all want from boyz that you didn’t get in the new book. If you want to doom a unit of my troops that is a win in my book. It’s laughable to say I have limited experience when I have been playing this game since the 90s. I read this whole thread and saw plenty of people asking about tide lists and getting shut down by people who never even tried it or stopped several editions ago. If you can’t figure out how a giant footprint is helpful to an aura based army I can’t really help you succeed. If you can’t see how playing a list nobody is building to counter is an advantage I can’t help you. I came to say that if you try it you may be pleasantly surprised and all I heard is people telling me they won’t try it. I understand the benefits of multiple 10 man units but it seems nobody wants to understand the benefits I am pointing out. Kudos to you for realizing that Goff auras affect units other than boyz. Doesn’t make it any less effective for helping boys because my stormboyz and meganobz also benefit. 30 man boyz at T5 with an invulnerable are somehow easier to kill than a 5 man unit of kommandos in cover according to the people countering my points so why should I explain any further.

First, when i mentioned limited experience, is because the codex has been out for only a few months. So maybe i wasn't clear, but that no one is an authority. We can at best share our experiences.

No where did i mentioned 30 boys are bad. But on the current set up is hard to argue for their benefits. That's why people are counter arguing you.

Is 30 wounds big footprint bad? Ofc not. But this is just 1 piece of the puzzle. From my own limited experience i also can say these same 30 wounds at t5 and 6s can easily go up in smoke with proper tools.

Most players i played use shooty armies or competitive lists.. this makes 30 blobs easy pickings. For comparison with Kommandos for 10 more pt you get cover save and deploy where ever you want at no cost. And still bring the same tools you mentioned. At 10 you can even give an extra weapon improving your Kommandos profile while being just as efficient as boys. They also benefits from the same reasons you mentioned. Warlord and bubble also dock if you want to add more defensive traits.

It's not that boy's are bad. More like we have other units that can do the same, get same results or more, and still be same or close to cost.

You can agree with me on this at least. I would compare boys currently to deff dreads. can they work? Sure. Are there better tools? Yes

 Jidmah wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
So I was thinking of trying a little 500 point list. Snikrot and as many kommandos I can fit, with all the melee wargear. Thoughts?
Might be better to go blood axes, but snikrot is just a proppa lad, shame I can’t specialist lad him.

Sounds difficult, but possible. A lot of games at 500 points are won by simply sitting on more objectives than your opponent, and with kommadoz you should have no issues shutting down shooting units. Using the blood axe stratagem to protect a unit and have it walk on somwhere they cannot be shot also seems like a game winner.

There are just three things I'd be aware of:
1) Snikrot is not a warboss, so you would need to bring an actual warboss if you want a Waaagh!. Most options are too expensive, so the only real solution is to have a foot warboss with a relic/warlord trait.
2) At 500 points, you must run a patrol, which means mandatory troops. 'orrible gits blow on small tables because of their debuff aura, but then again you don't have a lot of shooting going on. Personally, I'd prefer boyz, but that will severely reduce your other options.
3) You will most likely not be able to challenge any enemy units through shooting, so if you lose a flank, your opponent will be able to score there unchallenged, even if it's one character camping out in the open.

Wait, Snikrot isn’t a warboss? I swear they always make guys like him, zagstrukk, and grotsnik the most subpar zoggers. Maybe go deffskullz, get an opportunist big mek with ded shiny shoota in a trukkboyz trukk, kommandos ahead screwing things up.

I agree wholeheartedly that kommandos & stormboyz are good. I also agree & more importantly the results agree that there are better lists out there.
From what I read people are giving up on boyz without even trying. While at the same time acting like units with the same profile and a few different abilities are the only viable options. I personally run 3 squads of both stormboyz & kommandos in 5 man units but as a Goff player I need obsec. I love the new Zagstruck rules he is infinitely better than he used to be and doesn’t take a Warboss slot. You still have a lot of room for toys & specialty units when you are running 3 blobs. Specifically I gear towards retrieving octarius data & stranglehold/ engage depending on the map. Minimal units of storm/kommandos accomplish this easily and the big units of boys take the heat and hold the primaries for stranglehold. I don’t think a 10 man unit or even a couple would be as affective as an attention grabber or psychological threat.
Obviously I’m not here to convince somebody who already owns 10 buggies to dust off their boys. I’m here for the guys who are discouraged by the new rules and don’t want to buy/build a whole new army. I’m here to say they don’t need too.
Do you really think after running Goff boyz for years I haven’t faced shooting based armies? That’s who I want to face! If your getting your stuff shot off before it gets to combat you are not deploying effectively.

I mean if people need confirmation on a forum that more then buggy spam is playable and sometimes decent in most matchups feel free to enjoy your
Buggy spam lists
trukk boy lists
Walker lists
Ghaz goff Greentide lists
triple patrol kommodo/storm trooper spam
Beastsnagga squig lists
Warbiker lists


Enjoy your evil suns, bloodaxes, deathskulls, goffs, snakebites, freebooter and even badmoon (which kinda is the least competitve).

If you build and play any ork lists well enough they are all viable..
heck even the stompa is playable this edition…

You can probbaly win a small local tournament with any of those lists…

But when people talk about buggy lists being the most competitive it’s based on the fact they keep winning or placing high in tournaments. This doesn’t mean you can’t use anything else in the codex or that that’s the only way to play.

The list I made in the list section on dakka isn’t the most competitive. I don’t know if 18x squigbuggy/scrapjet is the best list for tournaments. I just know I don’t enjoy spamming 2 unit lists and I like a little more variety. And I also don’t want to buy 11x more buggies. (I’m already proxing 1x squigbuggy in my current list) So I wanted some melee boys to scrap it up. It’s competitive enough for me to enjoy playing and win most matchups…

So bottom line is yes 3x 30x ghaz goff greentide is viable to play. Is it better then trukk boy, kommando, stormboy spam? I don’t think so, but in the right player hands it can be. Personally I enjoy my 2x snaggaboys. They are annoying enough to deal with after the Killrig is destroyed and are decent vs most vehicles and monsters.

On a more important note…. Are we even getting anything this campaign book?



Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Jidmah wrote:

Greenblood wrote:
Man what a year to play Orks!!!!! I remember when the only kits in the store were stikkbomma boyz and ard boyz how far we have come! So many new models and such a beautiful range and best of all a codex built to win not for comic relief.

While I wouldn't exactly agree with "codex built to win" (more like "whoops, it actually works somehow"), but it's definitely a good one. IMO it's the first codex that can take on 4th edition's codex by Phil Kelly and not look like a bland piece of cardboard in comparison.

I agree with this wholeheartedly. GW was pushing Squig riders and Beast boyz super hard and ironically they accidentally made other builds way better

Greenblood wrote:
Ok I get it this is a buggy boy forum. I’ll leave you all to argue about scrapjets for 30 more pages. But remember I was the guy who told you Goff green tide is still alive and well. Go try for yourself.

Definitely not a Buggy player. In fact I have been winning smaller scale tournaments without using a single buggy in my lists. Closest thing ive used are trukkz.

Greenblood wrote:
So I asked had anyone actually tried it in 9th and the answers I got essentially amounted to a resounding no.
I admit I was skeptical of it when I read the new codex. I came here to say after play testing it against a lot of different opponents it actually works surprisingly well. Better than in 8th edition when it was very good.
People are counter arguing points I never made. I never advocating to wrap units. I never said stormboyz and kommandos aren’t good they are boyz I’m here saying boyz are good. I’m not sure what you all want from boyz that you didn’t get in the new book. If you want to doom a unit of my troops that is a win in my book. It’s laughable to say I have limited experience when I have been playing this game since the 90s. I read this whole thread and saw plenty of people asking about tide lists and getting shut down by people who never even tried it or stopped several editions ago. If you can’t figure out how a giant footprint is helpful to an aura based army I can’t really help you succeed. If you can’t see how playing a list nobody is building to counter is an advantage I can’t help you. I came to say that if you try it you may be pleasantly surprised and all I heard is people telling me they won’t try it. I understand the benefits of multiple 10 man units but it seems nobody wants to understand the benefits I am pointing out. Kudos to you for realizing that Goff auras affect units other than boyz. Doesn’t make it any less effective for helping boys because my stormboyz and meganobz also benefit. 30 man boyz at T5 with an invulnerable are somehow easier to kill than a 5 man unit of kommandos in cover according to the people countering my points so why should I explain any further.

So I literally have 2 polls on General discussion about Boyz, specifically about whether or not they are competitive. When the codex first came out the results were pretty heavily skewed in favor of Boyz being competitive, a Month into the Codex and it went completely the other way. I have analyzed them to no end and I can say without a shadow of a doubt they are NOT competitive.

First off, and most damning, Morale. Loss of Mob rule and leadership aura from the warboss (Turned into a 2CP strat) means that Morale is crushing to orkz. So old Ork hordes were 120ish models in 4 mobz. Opponents in 8th would single a mob out and destroy it utterly because of the CP strats to bring them back from the dead if they even had 1 model left. Now? Not so much. Against a competent opponent they are going to kill 24 orkz in 4 mobz. So now instead of killing 30 they only have to kill 24. What is the difference? You lose 6 in each mob, you then fail morale, you then are down to 23 models and likely lose another 4 per mob to morale, congrats the enemy kill 24, Morale killed 20. The enemy focused LESS on the boyz than before but still managed to kill about 50% more...which is even worse because THEY COST MORE! Point for point an Ork used to be about 2.5x cheaper than a Space Marine, Now they are only 2x cheaper, To add insult to injury those Marines are literally TWICE as durable as before while the boyz only gained T5 which is a 33 (at best) % boost to durability. Another fact is that as mentioned they lost most of their good stratagems which pushed them from being mediocre to good. No green tide, no mob up, no fight twice etc. To add more to that, Evil sunz lost +1 to charge which means you can't deep strike a big mob of them and reliably get in CC, especially teamed with the double nerf of Ere we go losing either 1 or 2 dice re-rolls AND the Weirdboy losing his + to cast when near boyz which means Da Jump is also less reliable than ever before. And of course their is the KFF losing its 5++ and becoming a 6++.

Put all of that together and they just aren't worth it in large mobz. Morale is honestly the biggest killer, but the fact that they are slower than ever, more expensive than ever, no reliable buffs to mention...they just don't serve a purpose, especially in a codex that has Kommandos and Stormboyz in it. There is a reason that no competitive players except 1 are bringing Boyz in any kind of numbers, and even that 1 guy is only bringing them in MSU mobz. I'm basically alone in that I am bringing 3 mobz of trukk boyz in 3 detachments to games, and the only reason they function is because they are teamed with a plethora of other alpha strike units which overload my opponents ability to deal with all the threats.

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
So I was thinking of trying a little 500 point list. Snikrot and as many kommandos I can fit, with all the melee wargear. Thoughts?
Might be better to go blood axes, but snikrot is just a proppa lad, shame I can’t specialist lad him.

Sounds difficult, but possible. A lot of games at 500 points are won by simply sitting on more objectives than your opponent, and with kommadoz you should have no issues shutting down shooting units. Using the blood axe stratagem to protect a unit and have it walk on somwhere they cannot be shot also seems like a game winner.

There are just three things I'd be aware of:
1) Snikrot is not a warboss, so you would need to bring an actual warboss if you want a Waaagh!. Most options are too expensive, so the only real solution is to have a foot warboss with a relic/warlord trait.
2) At 500 points, you must run a patrol, which means mandatory troops. 'orrible gits blow on small tables because of their debuff aura, but then again you don't have a lot of shooting going on. Personally, I'd prefer boyz, but that will severely reduce your other options.
3) You will most likely not be able to challenge any enemy units through shooting, so if you lose a flank, your opponent will be able to score there unchallenged, even if it's one character camping out in the open.

Wait, Snikrot isn’t a warboss? I swear they always make guys like him, zagstrukk, and grotsnik the most subpar zoggers. Maybe go deffskullz, get an opportunist big mek with ded shiny shoota in a trukkboyz trukk, kommandos ahead screwing things up.

Snikrot not being a warboss is a good thing IMO, because I can bring (I have yet to try it on a tabletop though) a Sguigboss/Mozrog AND snikrot in a Blood axe patrol. I think this more than compensates for the +1 to hit aura or the 5++.

Agree with addmid, having a second warboss is usually an upside. It's really just a downside at 500, which is a pretty odd format anyways.

When running him with Mozrog (or Badrukk or Thrakka), you need to keep in mind that the warlord decides which clan stratagems and relics you get.

I think if boyz were 8 points and trukks were 60 points, then running a mechanized goff list could be fun. But both boyz and trukks are slightly overcosted right now. Not terrible, but definitely mediocre.

Its a little bit of a shame, that neither warbosses or the banner-nob helps mitigate morale. They could also have made the weirdboy better, by giving him a morale boosting spell, or something.

They should have kept the nobz' ability to protect units around them from attrition tests to some degree. At least then they would have a niche.

So what's the best way to run Mega Nobz and in what kind of list?

I plan on running 4 Mega Nobz together with a Killa Klaw Warboss and 10 Grots in a Battlewagon with 'Ard case, Deffrolla and Fortress on Wheels. This is in an Evil Sunz Detachment with Trukkboyz, Scrapjets and Kommandos.

The plan is to drive them forward to the middle ojective. If the Wagon gets blown up, the Grots can take the damage. Next turn the MANz jump out and go punch the nearest enemy unit near the objetive. Buffed by the Warboss they hit on 3+. If the Warboss can reach something else while staying in buffing range, then that is perfect.
If the Battlewagon survives the first turn, it will go after any enemy non-melee units.
Evil Sunz kultur buffing them from M4" to M5" should be a nice bonus.

 Bonde wrote:
So what's the best way to run Mega Nobz and in what kind of list?

I plan on running 4 Mega Nobz together with a Killa Klaw Warboss and 10 Grots in a Battlewagon with 'Ard case, Deffrolla and Fortress on Wheels. This is in an Evil Sunz Detachment with Trukkboyz, Scrapjets and Kommandos.

The plan is to drive them forward to the middle ojective. If the Wagon gets blown up, the Grots can take the damage. Next turn the MANz jump out and go punch the nearest enemy unit near the objetive. Buffed by the Warboss they hit on 3+. If the Warboss can reach something else while staying in buffing range, then that is perfect.
If the Battlewagon survives the first turn, it will go after any enemy non-melee units.
Evil Sunz kultur buffing them from M4" to M5" should be a nice bonus.

I personally would say either as a Deathskulls unit to sit on an objective in the middle of the board and be obnoxious to remove, or as trukkboys to make up for their low movement and to be an old school MANz missile.

Take with a pinch of salt though as I haven't used them at all since the new book came out.

Goffs also, to give them more punch thanks to exploding 6s and possibly 5s.

I run 5 in Forktress BW shared with 10 boyz. 10 gretchins instead of boyz are also a legit choice.

I'd avoid putting a warboss in there, too many eggs in the same basket. With Goffs or Big Krumpaz bonuses, possibly also the waaagh one (which I don't use), they're killy enough.

It could be fun to try using a larger mob of 6 MegaNobz as Trukkboyz, put them in a Trukk and just fire them at a stubborn enemy unit on an objective
Also since they are Trukkboyz, all their custom shootas will hit on a 4+ That is almost a respectable amount of Dakka!

 Blackie wrote:
Goffs also, to give them more punch thanks to exploding 6s and possibly 5s.

I run 5 in Forktress BW shared with 10 boyz. 10 gretchins instead of boyz are also a legit choice.

I'd avoid putting a warboss in there, too many eggs in the same basket. With Goffs or Big Krumpaz bonuses, possibly also the waaagh one (which I don't use), they're killy enough.

I used 4 in Goff with 10 burna boyz in a BW. They work fine as a kan openner unit or to remove some pesky heavy infantry from an objective. I gave mine scorchas to make a nastier flamer bomb out of teleportation.

I would avoid big krumpas as there are plenty of other ways to get +1 to hit with out sacrificing clan traits they need to be viable. Obsec specifically for lucky blue gitz. No more than 5 in a unit and skip the killsawz. I don’t think a transport is necessary if you imbed them in infantry lists I use them Goffs but I guess my approach is a bit antiquated.

epronovost wrote:

 Blackie wrote:
Goffs also, to give them more punch thanks to exploding 6s and possibly 5s.

I run 5 in Forktress BW shared with 10 boyz. 10 gretchins instead of boyz are also a legit choice.

I'd avoid putting a warboss in there, too many eggs in the same basket. With Goffs or Big Krumpaz bonuses, possibly also the waaagh one (which I don't use), they're killy enough.

I used 4 in Goff with 10 burna boyz in a BW. They work fine as a kan openner unit or to remove some pesky heavy infantry from an objective. I gave mine scorchas to make a nastier flamer bomb out of teleportation.

I also did the 10 burna/5 MANz wagon, works surprisingly well. I skipped on the skorchas though, too much of a point sink IMO. If I run deff skullz, a single rokkit goes on the boss nob, otherwise no extra gear. MANz are too expensive as they are and there are quite a few things out there that simply hard-counter there which can just delete a unit.

im assuming it was open topped? or did you leave it non open topped and just fired when you disembarked the round after?

How do people feel about tankbustas in the small squig? Did a quick search and didn't see any talk about it. While maybe not S tier competitive I've found it adds a nice wrinkle to my Freeboota lists to double up on them.

Beardedragon wrote:
im assuming it was open topped? or did you leave it non open topped and just fired when you disembarked the round after?

Open topped+deff rolla for me. When the MANz get out, you drive the burnas around and burn things with bad armor saves to draw fire to the now useless wagon.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

vindicare0412 wrote:
How do people feel about tankbustas in the small squig? Did a quick search and didn't see any talk about it. While maybe not S tier competitive I've found it adds a nice wrinkle to my Freeboota lists to double up on them.

The primary reason is most likely that not many people own the little big squig. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, so feel free to share your strategies.

 Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vindicare0412 wrote:
How do people feel about tankbustas in the small squig? Did a quick search and didn't see any talk about it. While maybe not S tier competitive I've found it adds a nice wrinkle to my Freeboota lists to double up on them.

The primary reason is most likely that not many people own the little big squig. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, so feel free to share your strategies.

My strategy revolves pretty heavily around how good the Howdah rule(open topped + ignore fall back, engaged, or normal move penalties when shooting) is and how it off sets the 2 largest draw backs Tankbustas have (fragile and heavy weapon). They end up being a great way to get the Freeboota trait activated for your buggies and planes. The Squig itself while nothing special does provide another source of MW in the charge phase and being stuck in combat does not prevent the occupants from shooting. Late game the Bustas can always be used as a last ditch RODer or hop onto an objective.

The only glaring downside is the Squig is 18 wounds and fairly tall and hiding it can be a pain so it does force you into targeting units that pose a threat to it but at the same time they are no longer shooting my buggies.

Minor downside Butstas can't be boom boyz

 Bonde wrote:
So what's the best way to run Mega Nobz and in what kind of list?

I plan on running 4 Mega Nobz together with a Killa Klaw Warboss and 10 Grots in a Battlewagon with 'Ard case, Deffrolla and Fortress on Wheels. This is in an Evil Sunz Detachment with Trukkboyz, Scrapjets and Kommandos.

The plan is to drive them forward to the middle ojective. If the Wagon gets blown up, the Grots can take the damage. Next turn the MANz jump out and go punch the nearest enemy unit near the objetive. Buffed by the Warboss they hit on 3+. If the Warboss can reach something else while staying in buffing range, then that is perfect.
If the Battlewagon survives the first turn, it will go after any enemy non-melee units.
Evil Sunz kultur buffing them from M4" to M5" should be a nice bonus.

I used them this way. Pretty good, despite the fact, they died before do something. Most funny part is use the Emergency Disembark and jump with the, over the attacking units when the wagon is destroid. In some cases, opponent do nét have a weapons to kill them afterwards so in next turn, you march and charges your MANz deep in the opponents deploy.

I skipped this tactics in new codex - too many points sunk, no fight twice etc.
And the first of all - since grots cannot be obsec, this tactics lost a lot of its value. Because few grots jumping over the line and taking the opponents objective…. This was good

vindicare0412 wrote:

 Jidmah wrote:

Automatically Appended Next Post:

vindicare0412 wrote:
How do people feel about tankbustas in the small squig? Did a quick search and didn't see any talk about it. While maybe not S tier competitive I've found it adds a nice wrinkle to my Freeboota lists to double up on them.

The primary reason is most likely that not many people own the little big squig. That doesn't mean it doesn't work, so feel free to share your strategies.

My strategy revolves pretty heavily around how good the Howdah rule(open topped + ignore fall back, engaged, or normal move penalties when shooting) is and how it off sets the 2 largest draw backs Tankbustas have (fragile and heavy weapon). They end up being a great way to get the Freeboota trait activated for your buggies and planes. The Squig itself while nothing special does provide another source of MW in the charge phase and being stuck in combat does not prevent the occupants from shooting. Late game the Bustas can always be used as a last ditch RODer or hop onto an objective.

The only glaring downside is the Squig is 18 wounds and fairly tall and hiding it can be a pain so it does force you into targeting units that pose a threat to it but at the same time they are no longer shooting my buggies.

Minor downside Butstas can't be boom boyz

Ive thought about it too but every time I consider it I realize Im paying the same points as a kill tank but not getting as many wounds or as good shooting weapons. 5 tankbustas+squiggoth costs the same as a giga shoota kill tank, 10 tankbustas in the squiggoth cost more than the kill tank with the bursta cannon does. And keep in mind the bursta cannon averaged the same shots the tankbustas does and has an easier time getting its bonus BS. Plus kill tank has a much better melee profile than the squiggoth and even regenerates wounds each turn.

I guess if you dont want to run triple kill tanks and have a clan culture squiggoth with a fire support unit makes sense but as far as tankbustas+squiggoth goes I think youre better just using different units to achieve the same result. Even if you dont want the kill tank, the kill rig and FW kannonwagon fill similar roles for far less points. Heck a kill rig and a kannonwagon together the same as a squiggoth with 10 tankbustas and thats giving you way more wounds, melee attacks, shooting, utility, and even pyskers.

I want to make the squiggoth work, but every time I look at a shooting unit to stick in it I ask myself why Im not just taking dedicated vehicles to do that roles instead.

I has a list!

And I would appreciate feedback on it. Thank you!

 JNAProductions wrote:
I has a list!

And I would appreciate feedback on it. Thank you!

I'm not a big fan on both the Breacha Ram and Rokkit on Kommando. Since you got the points, that's not a big issue, but I prefer to specialize my Kommando either for shooting from cover or charging from it. Also, your list is very skewed toward infantry. I don't think you have anything above toughness 6 and still small in number. The meganobz might struggle to get where they want and might be relatively easy to ignore since they will definitely be ignored in turn 1 and 2 in favor of the Squighob boyz. Well commanded, that could play strongly in your favor, else it could turn against you as you come in two more easily manageable wave. An army packing a lot of plasma or even good old autocannons could place you in tough spot though. Nasty Space Marines could be nasty. Otherwise, I love the very fast and super aggressive style it got.

 JNAProductions wrote:
I has a list!

And I would appreciate feedback on it. Thank you!

Well yeah, like some one mentioned, do you have a plan for the Kommandos?

What about you shooting phase? seems empty, i know we orks like to use our chopa, but there has to be dakka too to be proper orky. Just advice, i would get more bikes if you like them, they can keep up with your dinos and their rather sturdy for their price.

You got 580 points in MANZ i sure hope you can deliver those 15, slogging from deployment at 5inch or ~11 with advance.

I feel that you need to think a bit on your battle plan. I know i know.. plan sounds so not orky (looks at blood axe orks ), but if you want good krumping you need some planz

Looks like Rising Tide includes just Codex Supplements for Cadians + Hive Fleet Leviathan along some Inquisition stuff - so no new Ork rules for now.

 Grotrebel wrote:

Spoiler:

Looks like Rising Tide includes just Codex Supplements for Cadians + Hive Fleet Leviathan along some Inquisition stuff - so no new Ork rules for now.

Yup, and GW are really spamming the transhuman (now trans-Cadian) across armies on units that arguably shouldn't have them. I was surprised and while I don't think it's particularly strong, I thought it would be Bullgryn/Ogryn specific rather than Cadian. I feel bad for Tyranids and Guard because that basically means this is their stopgap before they get to their codex which will be late into 9th.

I do find it kind of dumb that the Octarius sector, the place associated with an Ork Empire, doesn't have any Ork rules presence. You'd think if anything it would be a different regiment besides Cadia handling Octarius, but I guess it's because they're one of the main guard lines. I guess we have to wait until the second book?

yeah i really dont like how much stuff is getting transhuman.

Not just salty that orks got a garbage deal with it, but genuinely hated that rule being anything other than a 2cp strat.
Every time i see more versions of it i go "ughh....."
I was fine with Necron vehicles that have Quantum shields getting it because that...kinda makes sense there. Heavy duty shielding, sure why not.
Dafuq does Cadian have it for lol....

 Vineheart01 wrote:
yeah i really dont like how much stuff is getting transhuman.

Not just salty that orks got a garbage deal with it, but genuinely hated that rule being anything other than a 2cp strat.
Every time i see more versions of it i go "ughh....."
I was fine with Necron vehicles that have Quantum shields getting it because that...kinda makes sense there. Heavy duty shielding, sure why not.
Dafuq does Cadian have it for lol....

Yeah, it just feels lazy and a really artificial way to address the killiness of the edition in general. It also really screws over units that rely on +1 to wound like BA as their base ability and also makes the disparity between armies that do have it and those that don't even greater.

it also invalidates things that are SUPPOSED to be hard to kill and the weapons meant to kill them anyway.

It makes no sense that a weapon that hurts a Landraider fairly well somehow doesnt hurt a generic terminator...i could argue its harder to HIT the terminator, but not wound it.