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2023/01/10 02:53:34
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
cody.d. wrote: Honestly I'm pretty keen on Flashgitz right now. With AOC gone and the likleyhood of a lot more MEQ bodies on the field it seems like they'll be great at thinning their numbers enough that we can contest objectives midfield. Question is, is it worth taking 2 units and adding Baddruk and a painboy to keep them going a little longer.
i mean. You will probably keep them in a transport in which, badruk wont give them his +1 to hit or what ever he does. or is it reroll 1s? Cant remember. They also wouldnt benefit from a painboy.
If you have flashgitz out in the open, its either because you want them dead, or because their transport died.
It does limit the top output of the Flashgitz though. No gun crazy showoffs is a bit of a bummer. But a battlewagon with 10 flashgitz does come to just 320 with the obligatory deffrolla. That isn't an overly expensive investment all things considered.
I think it might be better to put 10 Flashgitz in a Trukk as it is cheaper and you avoid the need to feel like moving it towards the enemy.
Just park it where they can blast away at anything trying to hold the midfield.
2023/01/10 03:22:02
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That's a fair point, but that extra 35pts plus upgrades does give you good bump in durability and output. And the deffrolla could actually let them win the occasional combat against small units.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 03:29:13
2023/01/10 07:35:39
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Killakanz are so close to being great again. Theyre moderately cheap for a 5W T5 3+ body, thats not bad at all. The problem is STILL their leadership....durability is nice but when you only need to take 1 to possibly lose the rest its kind of a moot benefit. nevermind running a full squad as you just gotta kill 3 in 1 turn and you can almost guarantee the rest will run away because of the "half strength" crap.
If their leadership was a nonissue i feel we'd be using them a lot right now
I’d say take makari and give them ld6 but they already are ld6 (if you add ghaz they also get fnp)
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 07:39:15
2023/01/10 07:50:13
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That's a fair point, but that extra 35pts plus upgrades does give you good bump in durability and output. And the deffrolla could actually let them win the occasional combat against small units.
It's worth considering that while trukks are hard to hide, battlewagons are impossible to hide.
If you want to keep something alive hiding is the only option.
That said, I toyed a bit with goff nobz, but I can't get my head to wrap around how a unit of well-equipped nobz is still more expensive than a unit of plague marines which have vastly superior melee and durability.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 07:51:54
2023/01/10 08:54:24
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Squiggoths are pretty dope for flashgitz and got a slight points decrease too I think. No -1 to hit for moving, and slightly more tanks than a bw. For sure will still get blown up by some random sm with a lascannon, but you’ll look fresh doing it.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2023/01/10 09:27:17
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That's a fair point, but that extra 35pts plus upgrades does give you good bump in durability and output. And the deffrolla could actually let them win the occasional combat against small units.
It's worth considering that while trukks are hard to hide, battlewagons are impossible to hide.
If you want to keep something alive hiding is the only option.
That said, I toyed a bit with goff nobz, but I can't get my head to wrap around how a unit of well-equipped nobz is still more expensive than a unit of plague marines which have vastly superior melee and durability.
Hmm. We can hide stuff like Magnus and knights. How much harder battlewagon is?
2023/01/10 10:55:26
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That's a fair point, but that extra 35pts plus upgrades does give you good bump in durability and output. And the deffrolla could actually let them win the occasional combat against small units.
It's worth considering that while trukks are hard to hide, battlewagons are impossible to hide.
If you want to keep something alive hiding is the only option.
That said, I toyed a bit with goff nobz, but I can't get my head to wrap around how a unit of well-equipped nobz is still more expensive than a unit of plague marines which have vastly superior melee and durability.
Hmm. We can hide stuff like Magnus and knights. How much harder battlewagon is?
We had this discussion before. Your tables have abnormally large terrain pieces which might as well not exist outside of your bubble.
2023/01/10 12:55:49
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
The issue with hiding wagons is that they are looong models. I've rarely had issues where height was the issue, but there's always the front or the back end sticking out waiting to be shot.
2023/01/10 13:00:23
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
2 Wazbomms and 9 mekgunz in reserves. I'd almost be tempted to drop down to 8 mekgunz so I could fit a killrig with beast snagga Boyz into reserve too.
I'd lose the 5++ and +1 to s and a by going with a speedwaagh but the extra ap on the gunz is really good.
What gunz were you thinking?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Go full slot machine random with 9 bubblechukka? With the extra ap in turn 2 and 3 the three bubblechukka options aren't terrible into non AoC marines
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 14:49:28
2023/01/10 15:31:09
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
2 Wazbomms and 9 mekgunz in reserves. I'd almost be tempted to drop down to 8 mekgunz so I could fit a killrig with beast snagga Boyz into reserve too.
I'd lose the 5++ and +1 to s and a by going with a speedwaagh but the extra ap on the gunz is really good.
What gunz were you thinking?
Automatically Appended Next Post: Go full slot machine random with 9 bubblechukka? With the extra ap in turn 2 and 3 the three bubblechukka options aren't terrible into non AoC marines
Oh for me its only kustom mega kannons, nothing else
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 15:57:37
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2023/01/10 18:00:40
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Vineheart01 wrote: Killakanz are so close to being great again. Theyre moderately cheap for a 5W T5 3+ body, thats not bad at all. The problem is STILL their leadership....durability is nice but when you only need to take 1 to possibly lose the rest its kind of a moot benefit. nevermind running a full squad as you just gotta kill 3 in 1 turn and you can almost guarantee the rest will run away because of the "half strength" crap. If their leadership was a nonissue i feel we'd be using them a lot right now
There are two major points about the Kans:
1. What you say - moral! Squad of 3 is max without serious risk. So max is about 3x3 which is pretty insignificant to build list around?
2. Score and prevent scoring! That is what' s all list building about. Kans are slow. No matter how potentialy good they are, the best they can do is to be the last defence lince or T3 openers. That is not a game plan to score & prevent scoring. Most of the armies will be almost ful of VPs in T3 if you let them. And there is no reasonable way how to make them faster - use 9” deepstrike is not “reasonable” unless used on Megadreads..
So the best Kanz can be is some kind of supporting unit waiting for the last turns to hold objective on the end. And let other units do the main job in first few turns.
Which is actually not bad, I remember one or two of such lists in last season.
So the point - is there - after masive price reduction - new use for the old Kanz? Doesn' t seem like that
Would it be insane to try and go the Evil Sunz route for more movement speed to actually get a turn 1 charge? Before we needed the goff extra hits to attempt to slightly counter act the AoC, but thats gone now.
I think they’ll be viable, but more importantly I agree with your overall point on going for turn 1 overwhelm the opponent.
People are gonna find out here pretty soon just how quickly new marines plus guard are going to be able to whittle us down. Killrigs and all our armor are going to get absolutely demolished with the mass of plasma and lascannons on every sm unit. A 100pt kaskrin guard unit can easily one shot a rig statistically with a couple cp investment.
I think our only choice from a competitive standpoint is gonna be msu greentide, especially with the buff to the secondary. It’ll be a struggle to open up guard tanks, but as long as your not giving your opponent any good targets for all their high damage/ap then you can probably live long enough to outscore them. Just my 2 cents anyway.
I have a same feeling. Which drives me crazy, I like to paint the large ork machines! I don' t wanna graze the tons of boyz…
Beardedragon - I made some experiments with ES a year ago already and the problems are that 1. There is not enough buffs to boost everything in your army. So just few boosted units will be the lone attackers and die. Alphacharge not strong enough. 2. The movement buffs are minor and makes your alpha charge not reliable enough…
Hmm..
I mean, 3 units of stormboyz flying 20 inches, 2 rigs, one with squighide tyres going +1 and +2 advance, another rig with reddest paint for +2 movement as well on top of the evil sunz bonus. Maybe a few warbikers or kommandos.
But maybe you are right, because on a lot of maps, you would place your stormboys and such behind cover. that cover often doesnt stand directly on the deployment line, meaning your soldiers will be further behind. And so will the enemy units. And the evil sunz REALLY suffered for no reason when they lost their +1 to their charge.
Going just 18 inches often meant not going for a turn 1 charge unless your opponent went first. I think i will still toy with the idea though. As long as i can get some units in (as many as possible that is) then the rest can go beta strike.
But i dont think it will be amazing, just a thought i want to try.
However, i definitely will be trying out the 9 mek gunz in reserve. and maybe something else. In fact, the whole free reserve opens up a lot of plays i think my brain hasnt even fully fathomed yet. Because atm, it appears to me that only space marines (and well, maybe Tau) are the factions i have no idea how to beat. Many space marine armies just became 400 points cheaper which is insane. But barring that, i think maybe the competitive scene just became easier for the orks. Think. I dont really know yet. of course the competitive scene will now be flooded with space marines however.
And with biggest and da best gone, i dont have to care about pimping out a boss on squig with ard as nails and beasthide mantle, so ghaz is actually more viable for me now. because i ran biggest and da best in 90% of my games, which is also why im thoroughly pissed that the secondary is gone.
Anyhow, with half an army in free reserve, it might be the right time to actually consider something else but goffs.
But just so we're clear, because im not fully sure i understand everything related to arks of Omen.
I was under the impression that "Heroic support" stratagem would ALSO work on specialist mobs. I feel like ive seen a lot of places that says that it doesnt, but i dont understand why not? A warboss can only be used once per detatchment but the stratagem clearly works on warbosses so i could have two.
Specialist mobs can also only be placed one of per detatchment so why shouldnt heroic support work there?
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/11 15:24:06
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2023/01/10 22:31:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I asked a Marine buddy of mine to break out the most ridiculously OP list he could come up with utilizing all the free gear. Normal board, normal terrain (lots of LOS blocking terrain). Turn 1 he killed everything visible including all 3 units of my Kommandos. Turn 2 I got stuck in and did some decent dmg but by turn 4 it was all over...too much firepower for me to compete against, Plasma Inceptors just about 1 shot everything they look at...and they are cheaper then ever before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: With all of that said....I just don't see ANY Ork vehicles being remotely competitive against a SM list that can take that much massed anti-vehicle firepower for free.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/10 22:32:20
SemperMortis wrote: I asked a Marine buddy of mine to break out the most ridiculously OP list he could come up with utilizing all the free gear. Normal board, normal terrain (lots of LOS blocking terrain). Turn 1 he killed everything visible including all 3 units of my Kommandos. Turn 2 I got stuck in and did some decent dmg but by turn 4 it was all over...too much firepower for me to compete against, Plasma Inceptors just about 1 shot everything they look at...and they are cheaper then ever before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: With all of that said....I just don't see ANY Ork vehicles being remotely competitive against a SM list that can take that much massed anti-vehicle firepower for free.
Yep, them and guard just straight up invalidate any armor in our army right now. It's either turn 1 mass infantry charge with goffs or msu deathskull spam trying to stay out of los all game and hope to outscore. Either way not super fun.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2023/01/10 23:37:31
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
If there's something GW is consistent about, it's that they're consistently inconsistent, especially when it comes to treatment towards non-marine factions.
2023/01/11 05:23:19
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
That's a fair point, but that extra 35pts plus upgrades does give you good bump in durability and output. And the deffrolla could actually let them win the occasional combat against small units.
It's worth considering that while trukks are hard to hide, battlewagons are impossible to hide.
If you want to keep something alive hiding is the only option.
That said, I toyed a bit with goff nobz, but I can't get my head to wrap around how a unit of well-equipped nobz is still more expensive than a unit of plague marines which have vastly superior melee and durability.
Big Trakk is btw. Most easy to hide. Low profile. Price in between Trukk and Wagon and stats too.
2023/01/11 06:30:41
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SemperMortis wrote: I asked a Marine buddy of mine to break out the most ridiculously OP list he could come up with utilizing all the free gear. Normal board, normal terrain (lots of LOS blocking terrain). Turn 1 he killed everything visible including all 3 units of my Kommandos. Turn 2 I got stuck in and did some decent dmg but by turn 4 it was all over...too much firepower for me to compete against, Plasma Inceptors just about 1 shot everything they look at...and they are cheaper then ever before.
Automatically Appended Next Post: With all of that said....I just don't see ANY Ork vehicles being remotely competitive against a SM list that can take that much massed anti-vehicle firepower for free.
But Semper, we get strategic reserves for free now. Simply outflank the enemy with all if your vehicles for an easy victory [/s]
In all seriousness though, we might actually be better off sticking everything in reserves that isn't going to be charging or completely hidden on turn one.
2023/01/11 12:00:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I remember in the days of 6/7th it was extremely common for people to hide about a third of their army in reserves, it was unusual to see someone who didnt.
Pretty much only Green Tide orks didnt, as everything was slow enough to never get anywhere if they were in reserves and nothing deepstriked.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2023/01/11 15:25:42
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Things to watch out for going forward against Marines.
Assault Terminators with TH/SS. They still have AoC and got significantly cheaper.
Heavy weapons...like all of them...all over the board in every single fething squad. There will not be a unit that is "Squishy" or that doesn't have special/heavy weapons in them.
Inceptors:.....HOLY CRAP. 240pts nets you 6 of them with Plasma Exterminators meaning they can combat squad them into squads of 3 and each squad of 3 can pump out 6D3 Plasma Shots with a 28' threat range (more if they advance).
Probably most annoying if your meta has a lot of IH players, Doctrines can be kept, so Iron Hands never leave Devastator Doctrine.
With general points drops and free upgrades be prepared for some suicide Melta squads...because why wouldn't you take a 100pt squad of 5 Marines armed with 3 Combi Meltas and 2 Multi-Meltas...and a PF just because
I hate to repeat this line but in my opinion the best way to deal with these new threats is to heavily utilize terrain. They have a lot of dakka, but its generally short to mid ranged (12-24') so stay out of range until you need to get stuck in. Abuse LoS terrain as much as possible and be incredibly careful when forward deploying Kommandos. The days of soaking up bolter fire and the occasional heavy weapon on turn 1 is effectively over. If you forward deploy them incorrectly, you are just handing your opponent free priority targets for weapons that they might not have been able to utilize otherwise.
In another multiverse, this could've been the orks.
Free kill saws and nobz at maybe 15 points? Dont mind if i do, 150 points of killsaw nobz.
Mega nobz at 27 points with free weapon upgrades? Sure thing!
Funny part is that I don't think it would be that crazy for us even if that did happen. At least with Arks of Omen limiting us to only one unit of Trukk boyz, we'd have to rely on a T2 charge to get most of our stuff across the board.
But I'd guarantee you that everyone else, particularly marine players, would cry chicken little and have us nerfed in a week before we'd even be able to see if it was worth crying over.
2023/01/11 17:52:39
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
100pt squad of 5 Marines armed with 3 Combi Meltas and 2 Multi-Meltas...and a PF just because
This is whats making me wonder if squighogs are going to stay meta this season. i have already pulled kill rigs from my lists - everyone knows what they can do and there should be enough anti tank out there now to make them a liability.
if i did pull squighogs i dont know what i would sub in...drop the mek gunz and 10 grots, add in 30 snagga boyz, 30 stormboyz
2023/01/12 02:32:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Kill Rig [11 PL, 190pts]: 'Eavy Lobba, 4. Spirit of Gork, 6. Squiggly Curse, Butcha Boyz, Savage Horns and Hooves, Saw Blades, Stikka Kannon, Wurrtower
+ Dedicated Transport +
Trukk [4 PL, 70pts]: Big Shoota
++ Total: [115 PL, 2,000pts, 4CP] ++
A Grimdark New Year - 2nd - “Mork Purry” - now this is interesting! Blood Axe gang with tripple SAG!§! 3 Deffdreads and two battlewagons and tons of infantry and other characters.
Kill Rig [11 PL, 190pts]: 'Eavy Lobba, 4. Spirit of Gork, 6. Squiggly Curse, Butcha Boyz, Savage Horns and Hooves, Saw Blades, Stikka Kannon, Wurrtower
+ Dedicated Transport +
Trukk [4 PL, 70pts]: Big Shoota
++ Total: [115 PL, 2,000pts, 4CP] ++
A Grimdark New Year - 2nd - “Mork Purry” - now this is interesting! Blood Axe gang with tripple SAG!§! 3 Deffdreads and two battlewagons and tons of infantry and other characters.
Mark Perry Finished 7th not 2nd and it was a GT of 24 players, 22 of which played more than 2 games.
With that said, I think starting next month we are going to start seeing some realistic AoO results coming in. I still predict Marines run away with it.
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 
10k p fullpaint orks ready to krump! …