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2023/01/19 20:54:54
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
ES aren't bad at all I don't think. If nothing else it'll be short games that are basically over by end of turn 2 one way or the other after charging the whole army.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2023/01/21 14:27:28
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I think if I do that then I lose all my kommandos turn 1 because they likely aren't making many, if any, charges
they are starting 12-9" off the enemy line and move 6", how are you not making 3-6" charges rerolled?
I probably play on slightly different tables. Usually ends up being a good 10”+ charge for me assuming the opponent doesn’t deploy right on the edge.
The rules for Kommandos is you get to start the game anywhere you want thats more than 9' from your enemies deployment zone or any forward deployed units they have. Turn 1 WAAAGH you get a 9.5' movement which means you have threat range to the end of their deployment zone. As far as getting shot off the table...well yeah that is a risk, which is why you put them in terrain turn 1 because then they become more durable than Marines pt for pt (3+ cover save). To kill 1 Marine with bolters takes 18 shots, 18 shots, 12 hits, 6 wounds 2 dmg 18 shots = 18pts dead. To kill a Kommando In cover takes 13.5 shots. 9 hits, 3 wounds 1 failed save. 13.5 shots to kill 11pts and you can theoretically find a piece of cover that also gives you -1 to hit So if they really want to waste that much firepower to kill 11pt models...thats a win in and of itself.
Automatically Appended Next Post:
Incognito15 wrote: So ive got a 1000 pt dbls tourney in a month and wondered what people are liking.
Boys and snagga boyz seem to have improved with the AOC nerf.
I dont see a point in burna, tankbusta, or flash gitz still.
I thought foot heavy Goff is way to go but IG with tanks seems like itll
remove us easily.
You now have 6 Bomb Squigs instead of 4, you have the same # of squads but you have 3 squig rider squads of 3 so less chance of morale being an issue, you also have fleshed out your last Kommando squad and given all 3 of them a Breacha Ram which on a Goff unit/Waaaagh turn is S8 so it wounds everything you will face on a 2+. Against Marines a Kommando gets 3 attacks, 2 hits, 1.33 wounds and does 0.44dmg. The Breacha Kommando gets 2 attacks, 1.33 hits and 1.48dmg (assuming cover for both).
You have a lot more threat potential in those kommandos, and if you deploy them last you can threat overload a section of their army by just dumping 30! Kommandos on turn 1.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/21 17:07:55
Had a game last night vs my mates death guard. We let the death guard have aoc since they are pretty terrible without it. I decided to try goffs first for the greentide list. First turn waaaghed, da jumped some burna boys to clear his pox walker screen so kommandos/stormboyz could get to his deamon prince which all worked really well. charged his rhinos carrying his plague marines with the other kommandos, stormboyz, and zagstruck and blew them up. He had horrible luck on one and lost half the squad inside. Turn 2 was basically just cleaning up his backline and the game was pretty much over. Final score I think was 100-50. I did try out trukk nobz in this one and was pretty underwhelmed but that was mostly because big choppas are useless against death guard -1 damage and also didn't get them into combat turn 1, so they were just obj camping until late in the game when I just yolo da jumped them into a death shroud squad which they killed like 1 of then got wiped (that was with warpath on them too). I think they could be good against sm obviously, but I don't think they're gonna end up replacing trukk manz for me.
Burnaboyz were fantastic. So useful for clearing screen for turn 1 charge if your trying to build your army to do that and cheap as chips so it makes your opponent not want to dedicate much firepower to them. They went on to clear his other poxwalker squad off an obj and finish off a damaged plague marine squad. Definitely plan on keeping them in the build going forward. Since guard are gonna be so prevalent I might try out nobz again but with all combi-skorchas since they're only 5 pts now. Them plus burnaboyz I feel like you could clear a lot of infantry turn 1.
Definitely think I'm gonna be switching to DS instead of Goffs. The slight damage bump from goffs isn't really needed with mass choppa attacks and playing against DG who can pump out a good amount of mw's like most of the top armies made me realize the 5+ on top the obj secured is way more useful. Just my two cents anyways.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2023/01/22 08:48:53
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I see the point of ES in move twice strat. A lot of interesting stuff can be done with it.
For example - if go first you can roadblok half of the map 3.1” in front of the opponent CC army with few warbikers with their 34” move for about 100p.
Or you can hide the Koptas speedmob style of fight.
Redder paint is also pretty interesting.
Adv+charge seems to be pretty useless imho.
well. i won the fight, but only with 2 points.
He ran over 100 soldiers, and literally put half his army (960 points) in to reserve and he got turn 1. He shot off one kill rig from the board turn 1 which was my bad, but thats about it. in return he had moved his laser chickens up (the one shooting the rig) the board which i tied up with a unit of kommandos and warbikers, so those chickens werent an issue all game afterwards. When i got my turn 1 i went for a waaagh, because if i hadnt i would be shot to pieces with the new reserve rules. i needed an army wide 5++ to survive. Well it was either that, or sacrifice 2 units to screen the sides, and then just hide and hope for the best. But i figured i would need to deny him as many points as possible as early as possible, so i went for it. But the issue remains that he can always deploy in his own deployment zone, which he did, because i had clogged up the sides.
So i moved up and tied up as many things as i could. I denied him VP on round 2, and he got 4 VP round 3, but he chewed through my army pretty fast turn 4 and 5 and came back pretty hard.
The issue was that while evil sunz were fast, hell i even had "faster than yous" trait on my warlord, they are not killy. And he ran Lucius so all damage 1 attacks he had +1 save against. My evil sunz damage one attacks didnt really do a lot. I had over 100 models i had to kill and my ap1 attacks had their ap ignored.
Then you can cast transhuman on some of them, then electropriests gave fight last to others.
Over all, i dont feel like him putting them in reserve made the game harder, it just made me able to deny him all VP on round 2. On the other hand, had he stayed with all units on the board and were smart with his deployment he would have units that could now move up.
But its really scary, the new reserve rules. They are definitely not made for melee armies, once again making melee armies harder to play. Because all the units coming in from reserve have a free turn shooting my units that i couldnt tie up. They come in, they shoot, they now did their part.
I come in, i have to charge, i might fail and die the next round.
The new meta means that we essentially need to have super cheap infantry ready to just screen out the sides that we dont mind dying, so maybe having more than 20 grots is ideal? maybe have 40 grots, so you have one for backline objective, 1 for good bits, and if the enemy reserves a ton of units, 20 grots, 10 for each side, that can run up and screen out so he has to deploy them in his own deployment zone. But whether grots move fast enough i dont know.
This message was edited 3 times. Last update was at 2023/01/22 09:05:52
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
- About Dawn of War 3
2023/01/23 16:17:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Hello chaps, anyone know if we are able to use this Strat from Arks of Omen to include more than one Specialist Mob?
HEROIC SUPPORT1CP
Core Stratagem – Requisition Stratagem
Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army. If a Detachment ability (excluding Gene-sect) would limit the number of times you can include a unit in that Detachment to 1, you can include a maximum of 2 of that unit in that Detachment instead. You can only use this Stratagem once.
Hi, just started out with orks and trying to make a 1000 pts list to begin with. Not trying to be too competetive, I just mainly want to use Evil Sunz and warboss on warbike for the Speedwaagh. I've already got 2 squads of boyz, 5 warbikes, 8 burna boyz + 2 Spanners and a Snazzwagon.
Spoiler:
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Orks) [60 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++
tneva82 wrote: Yes. That's what it's intended for(among other similar restrictions)
Hmm btw does it apply only to 1 restriction or all? Aka is it 2 warboss+1 specialist mob or reverse or mayhap you get 1 more of each?
Heroic support
if a detachment ability would limit the number of times you can include a unit in that detachment to 1, you can include a maximum of 2 of that unit in that detachment instead.
now that you ask it, i read that as increasing once per detachment restrictions to two, so two bosses, two kustom jobs, two specialist mobs
going to ping goonhammer and see what they think
edit: hashed it out with my local group and goonhammer - specialist MOBS and kustom jobs are not listed as detachment abilities so they do not get the benefit of heroic support.
the detachment ability specialist LADZ is the ork equivalent of agents of the imperium and lets you include certain units in a clan detachment without losing kulturs.
so one additional warboss only, nothing else.
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/24 14:39:09
2023/01/24 13:13:41
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
tneva82 wrote: Yes. That's what it's intended for(among other similar restrictions)
Hmm btw does it apply only to 1 restriction or all? Aka is it 2 warboss+1 specialist mob or reverse or mayhap you get 1 more of each?
Heroic support
if a detachment ability would limit the number of times you can include a unit in that detachment to 1, you can include a maximum of 2 of that unit in that detachment instead.
now that you ask it, i read that as increasing once per detachment restrictions to two, so two bosses, two kustom jobs, two specialist mobs
going to ping goonhammer and see what they think
It's not clear cut if it affects one detachment ability limit or every detachment ability limit if your army has more than one, so you might be able to take 2 warbosses and 2 wartrikes - but the specialist mob bit is almost certainly not allowed. The strat affects limits found in detachment abilities that affect the number of times you can select a unit - specialist mobs is not a detachment ability and the unit is the datasheet the specialist mob is applied to not the specialist mob upgrade itself.
2023/01/24 16:29:43
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Although Battlescribe shows that big choppa costs 0 points on the boss nob on a boyz unit, it actually shows that it costs 5 points in the points update pdf. There's a few other items like that for the boss nob in that dataslate in Battlescribe.
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
Mother earth is pregnant for the third time, for y'all have knocked her up. I have tasted the maggots in the mind of the universe, but I was not offended. For I knew I had to rise above it all, or drown in my own gak.
2023/01/24 21:03:54
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
SprueTea wrote: Hi, just started out with orks and trying to make a 1000 pts list to begin with. Not trying to be too competetive, I just mainly want to use Evil Sunz and warboss on warbike for the Speedwaagh. I've already got 2 squads of boyz, 5 warbikes, 8 burna boyz + 2 Spanners and a Snazzwagon.
Spoiler:
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Orks) [60 PL, 4CP, 1,000pts] ++
I'm on the fence about the battlewagon. I like the look of trukks a lot more, but it seems they're less points efficient here.
Any advice on what to change/what to get next would be great. Thanks!
Hey mate, i can give you some advice, mileage will vary and take it as advice no guarantees.
Ok let's star with your clan selection, it's not bad but it's important to understand what props it up and what does not go well with it:
-Basically you get 1' to move (unless speed freaks 2 in that case) and 1 to advance rolls, now this benefits a large amount of unit's in your list, mostly the footslogging and other that you advance most of the time.
-Bikes/boss in warbike Is a tricky situation since you only get a flat 6, so your +1 to roll is waisted
-You also get the no penalty in assault guns so rukkatrukk squigbuggy and and some of the guns of shock attack dragster, and that is about has much as you benefict from your clan.
Now the list the way i see is your going buggy heavy, and that means shooting.. in orks.. oh boy get ready for some disappointment
-Mech gun is fine on it's own i would advise you to upgrade to Kustom mega-kannon since it has more shots and an identical profile, so double shots on a gun is good
-Boyz will be boyz, if you take a look around the forum here, you will find many a warboss frustrated with current selection of boyz, don't expect anything amazing
-Missing gretchin is a crime, your missing the best secondary we have so far... up to you mate but this a big miss in my book
-Burna boyz.. flaming tadpole found some success using the jump.. but i have my doubts... would need more testing, 8d6 4S AP0 D1 i am not entirely sure.. even more since you do not have support.. if facing shooting list or you fail to hide them their boyz and well.. you know my opinion on boyz.. with L6 you better hope they kill a unit since they will be running fast if they don't..
-Boomdakka maybe inside of a waagh?? The thing is i used a Dakkajet in big waaghh with the kustom more dakka and it whiffed twice it was a big disappointment, that was 56 shot each round, over 2 rounds and barely manged 4 wounds, all because BS5, the other thing is, besides speed waaagh there is no other buffs for it so i won't expect it perform to better, maybe you will get more leverage? not so sure.. have you taken a look at Kustom Boosta-blastas? it's flamers, or a deffdread? Their flamers are heavy so they have a better profile.
-Rukkatrukk either bring 2 or put nitrosquigs kustom job.. enough said, next... lol -Shokkjump solid but vulnerble to -1 hit since it has nothing to give it buffs
-warbikes solid but if your bringing them for shooting you will find the same issue like the Boomdakka , oh and bonus they have more shots then the Boomdakka, and like i mentioned, if you don't have anything for the guns, they will fail.. a lot!
-Battlewagon, it's nice... although is it for the boyz or the flamers? Being point efficient does not matter much, it depends on what you want it for, while forgetting you get more wounds with both trucks and their easier to hide then your wagon plus providing 2 targets instead of one. Up to you, but rule of thumb, we tend to use the waggon for really pricy stuff like manz and such.. still, it's not bad.
Verdict? Humm if it is a fun game of beerhammer and for a few laughs and explosion, it will be a fun game. If you intend to win anything, regretfully i will tell you that your list is actually fighting itself, the big issue is your selection of units goes against your clan choice which want to move fast, or play's in the move phase, so you probably want to gravitate to a pressure list with squigboys and other units that want to get stuck as fast as possible, you don't care a nickel for shooting....
If you really want to go buggy consider freebota or badmoons.. just remenber that orks shooting is very limited and shooting on 5 really weakens it... There are very few buffs for it and you will end up depending on some units to carry your games, mech guns, kannonwagons, flyers(jury still out on these), some of the buggies like rukkatruck, kustom busta, shock dragsta, scrappjet's.. and that's about the best shooting that comes to mind.
I also think your scoring game is currently lacking and you will have issues wining even if you have the upper hand.
The last point is that you have a bit of limited amount of anti T8... if your meta is T8 heavy the list will barely do a dent.
Well this is just my opinion, i think you should give it a spin and come back with your opinion, after all am not all knowing and i have no idea the meta your facing!
Hope it helps, good luck and WAAAAGHHH hard!
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/25 01:07:34
2023/01/25 02:43:00
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
PaddyMick wrote: @teranNash thanks for clearing up my question. Sucks but it is what it is.
@TedNugent I also notice Battlescribe doesn't recognise the extra slots for Character Elite units.
Yes it does under no force org.
I can't post image, but if you add squigboyz you can add nob on smasha squigs in no force org
Same with makari and other that have free roles if another unit is added.
Unless you mean something else by extra slots.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2023/01/25 12:20:34
2023/01/25 14:27:27
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
The only Ork warboss is Blake Jones in Adeleide. So nothing exciting.
Please, look at the other other armies - what I see are the armies based a lot about big vehicles/monsters (tau, tyranids, guard, etc) or TEQ armies. Isn' t it? So the prediction of heavy meta was right and it is a really time to take the boyz to the ride?
List - ghazzy, killrigs etc. All goffs
Spoiler:
++ Arks of Omen Detachment (Orks) [112 PL, 1CP, 2,000pts] ++
+ Configuration +
Arks of Omen Compulsory Type: Troops
Battle Size [6CP]: 3. Strike Force (101-200 Total PL / 1001-2000 Points)
Clan Kultur: Goffs
Detachment Command Cost
Game Type: 5. Chapter Approved: Arks of Omen
+ Stratagems +
Stratagem: Heroic Support: Warboss [-1cp]
+ HQ +
Beastboss on Squigosaur [9 PL, -2CP, 160pts]: Beasthide Mantle, Proper Killy (Goffs), Stratagem: Big Boss, Stratagem: Extra Gubbinz
So T8 is the new read meat?
Custodes and DA went up and the meta is hardening up with tanks and what not.
I don't think the boyz have a place yet.. it's just too deadly for them.. and 1 claw won't make much of a difference. I want to believe i am wrong but it requires too much point investment.
Hopefully we get some love now that other books died.
Sad to see them go.. but still they should just fix our codex instead of band aid it.
I am still annoyed at the competitive community for bashing one of the ork's play style leaving us with only 1 way to play.
2023/01/26 13:06:35
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
if vehicles are on the menu, anything beast snaggas are that much more valuable. hitting on 2s and good strat support, and a permanent if small invuln save, i'll take it
2023/01/26 13:31:25
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Forceride wrote: So T8 is the new read meat?
Custodes and DA went up and the meta is hardening up with tanks and what not.
I don't think the boyz have a place yet.. it's just too deadly for them.. and 1 claw won't make much of a difference. I want to believe i am wrong but it requires too much point investment.
Hopefully we get some love now that other books died.
Sad to see them go.. but still they should just fix our codex instead of band aid it.
I am still annoyed at the competitive community for bashing one of the ork's play style leaving us with only 1 way to play.
Well, right. My fault.
I supposed to use all kinds of “boyz” = tankbustas, beastsnagas, stormboyz, kommandos etc. Dependig on the task to pass.
Traditional ork tactics = spam one type of the targets.
And yeas, the note about “beastsnagas” support for this kind of meta = exactly fit to my preception of GW plan of selling models and rules.
Phase 1 = new models whit not so great rules to sell stuff like “new one”
Phase 2 = after aprox 1-2 years comes the new rules that pimps this kind of units up to sell them like a “meta”
Phase 3 = dump them to force people with completed collection to another type of the army.
Works 99% for all armies imho. See the Votans! Hot on the table? Not so much.. phase 1!
See the Rogan Dorn? The same story.
Ork buggies? Welcome in phase 3 after exactly following phases 1 and 2.
So yes, bestsnagga boyz are exactly ready for phase 2. Creative way how to make us buy another set of boyz.
I don ' t complain. Just comment. One have to paint something anyway
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/26 13:32:29
And one more point - do not expect new ork models in next 3 years at least. All factions have their waves up a down. We had about 3-4 years of new models and rules. Tons of buggies, brand new snagga line, new kommandos and Koptas. That is a lot.
Now it is a turn for Inperial Guard to shine. The y was rotting in mus for 4 years or how long….
Its funny. Back in 6th/7th when "GW is a model company first" was the motto, they barely released anything. We'd get like 1 codex a year with 1-2 new models at best and sometimes not even that much.
Then Starwars Xwing kicked them off the top sales mark and they kicked it into high gear to "invigorate" the game again, and somehow now theyre just pumping models out (to the point where some armies are actually getting annoyed by it *cough marines cough*)
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang.
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys
2023/01/26 15:53:30
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: And one more point - do not expect new ork models in next 3 years at least. All factions have their waves up a down. We had about 3-4 years of new models and rules. Tons of buggies, brand new snagga line, new kommandos and Koptas. That is a lot.
Now it is a turn for Inperial Guard to shine. The y was rotting in mus for 4 years or how long….
You mean Eldar? They have model's with what? like 20 or more?
But i hear ya on the boyz, not your fault mate, i think everyone one want's their boyz, the normal ones to be great again, it's in our genes, like a dog chasing a car. But yeah, totally on that note, use the ones for the task, also in current AoO, i think we probably going to run out of role slots, either for Elite or Fast Attack.. funny lol!
But yeah, beast snaggas might exactly be our best troops just cause of the meta. I won't hold my breath though, this is the last season before 10th, many a spin is still to happen. Inceptors just got nerfed. So hold your horses.
Also, i don't get that trait in the list, why proper killy in the beast boss? Pretty sure there are better ones.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/26 15:55:15
2023/01/26 16:21:39
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: And one more point - do not expect new ork models in next 3 years at least. All factions have their waves up a down. We had about 3-4 years of new models and rules. Tons of buggies, brand new snagga line, new kommandos and Koptas. That is a lot.
Now it is a turn for Inperial Guard to shine. The y was rotting in mus for 4 years or how long….
I mean they literally previewed a new model that looks strikingly similar to snikrot… I have no clue where you are pulling this no model nonsense from.
In fact I fully expect Angron to meld a push toward Armageddon in the next 3 years and for orks to get at least some army of renown type lists and character models at the very least. But I don’t expect any major line releases except maybe a new tankbusta type unit.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2023/01/26 16:26:02
2023/01/26 20:19:58
Subject: Re:Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
I actually like regular boyz a lot in this current meta. 5pt combi-skorcha plus tankbusta bomb strat is generally a lot more applicable than monster hunterz. I think doing a mix of snagga and regular is a good way to go so if you really need something big dead you can warpath/da jump a squad of snaggas plus charge in your squigasaur tagged with the monster hunter.
Friendship is like peeing on yourself: everyone can see it, but only you get the warm feeling that it brings.
2023/01/26 20:47:17
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
Tomsug wrote: And one more point - do not expect new ork models in next 3 years at least. All factions have their waves up a down. We had about 3-4 years of new models and rules. Tons of buggies, brand new snagga line, new kommandos and Koptas. That is a lot.
Now it is a turn for Inperial Guard to shine. The y was rotting in mus for 4 years or how long….
I mean they literally previewed a new model that looks strikingly similar to snikrot… I have no clue where you are pulling this no model nonsense from.
In fact I fully expect Angron to meld a push toward Armageddon in the next 3 years and for orks to get at least some army of renown type lists and character models at the very least. But I don’t expect any major line releases except maybe a new tankbusta type unit.
Well, you are right that some plastic HQ and one more Army of Renown propably come this year. My imperfection. But the general direction will be like I said.
But this would be the last call.
The whole warhammer works this way. Few years support of this army, than dump it and support another. Look at the meta developemnt in last couple of years. My oldest warhammer book is about 8 years old. Pretty short period. But this pattern is obvious. Up and down, up and down.
It is very qood logical patern. You cannot simply upgrade all armies at once, you force people to buy more armies, the change so it is interesting, you can tell some story in marketing space about who fights who and write abook about it.
Plus you have a time to to paint all pile of shame models in the meantime
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2023/01/27 07:23:36
Orks are not one of the forgotten armies - that's for sure. We got our fair share only new releases lately. Yeah, it's probably gonna abe a couple year's break for us, but I really don't mind. We have a great variety of awesome models. I can't even name the older ones that are still legal that I particularly dislike... Well, maybe I don't dig killrigs and squighogs but that's cause i'm more of a blood axe fan and like more mad Max look for my orks with ramshackled vehicles all around. Squig-stuff sculpts are great by themselves tho.
2023/01/27 21:39:11
Subject: Might makes Right! - Codex Orks 2021 Tactics
With the changes to space marines, why do people expect heavy vehicle play? Terminator play i get but why vehicle play from other armies?
Wouldnt they just get demolished by tons of space marine melta shots?
Id expect a very terminator and infantry heavy meta. Not terminator and vehicle meta. Except for imperial guard as they probably cant make a great army without vehicles.
I think.
Hope, is the first step on the road to disappointment.
So if they really want to waste that much firepower to kill 11pt models...thats a win in and of itself. 
Fang, son of Great Fang, the traitor we seek, The laws of the brethren say this: That only the king sees the crown of the gods, And he, the usurper, must die.
9500p fullpaint orks ready to krump!
An ork with an idea tends to end with a bang. 
14000pts Big 'n Bad Orkz
6000pts Admech/Knights
7500pts Necron Goldboys 