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Gotcha, I'll look into those, thanks

 Afrodactyl wrote:

RedNoak wrote:
Seems kmk is still best mek gun? Profile wise I mean... Gotta be kmk Vs smasha round 3 xD

So to clarify.... Can U or can't you use Kareem without the need of a six?

The KMK still looks like the go to choice.

The way I read Careen is that you need to have rolled the 6 to explode before you're a viable target for the strat.

Also, a handy guide from Reddit about which characters can join which unit.
https://www.reddit.com/r/orks/comments/14a9voj/a_list_of_who_goes_with_whom/?utm_source=share&utm_medium=android_app&utm_name=androidcss&utm_term=1&utm_content=share_button

Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want


Small thing i hadnt noticed on my first read through:

Gorkanaut remains at invul 6 but the morkanaut has invul 5 due to the build in KFF
Gorkanaut gives +1 to hit in melee during the turn of the waaagh, however, the Morkanaut gives +1 to hit to shooting, during the turn of the waaagh. I thought they both gave +1 to hit during melee during the waaagh, but you can actually reliably use the morkanaut as a shooty platform and save the meks +1 to hit ability on something else, if you do decide to run a morkanaut.

shogun wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Every weapon fired from a firing deck is just treated like the transport was firing them, so unit abilities do not work, but all buffs and debuffs that affect the transport do.

So I could pack a battlewagon with:

- 15 loota's including 3 spanners with rokkit launcha
- 5 loota's with one spanner with rokkit launcha
2x shokk attack gun big mekk

and use the overwatch stratagem to get a free round shooting (including the weapons from the battle wagon) with 6+ to hit when an enemy get's within 24 inch.

Lootas seem like a bad choice for transports as they can never hitter better than 5s.

Or you just pack it with 2x 6 burnas +1 spanna and 1x 7 burnas+1 spanna and part hit whatever comes closer than 12" with 19d6 S4 hits
Ahh, brings back memories from 5th.

Another idea would be 3x5 Tankbustas and two mini meks which take turns jumping out and embarking onto the models you can drive around freely.

I actually also think that flash gits would be decent passengers as well, but you want them to jump out and fire away to make best use of their abilities rather than shoot from the safety of a firing deck.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Mob rule is actually a headscratcher to me. Is there a way to use it at all? You have to use it in your command phase, and it only lasts till the end of the command phase - which means you can only use other command phase stratagems which are... *checks books* ... just insane bravery?

For sure. Badrukk and Flash Gitz seem really good actually

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.

All the mek gun weapons are energy based, so whether you use the traktor kannon head, smasha gun head or kustom mega kannon head, really shouldnt matter. As long as it looks like what its meant to be, its close enough. I agree firing rockets out of a small bullet barrel wouldnt cut it, but all Mek Gunz are energy based weapons.

We're playing a faction where we rutinely paint our models yellow and red, but still run them as death skulls and Goffs. We're a faction that builds "Gaze of Mork" guns for our Stompas out of Necron Gunz, Dakkajets out of necron flyers, and Gorkanauts out of Knights.

Space marines dont generally run blood angels in the colors of Black and white, and the few who do i dont call out (because i honestly dont care about their colors).

Last but not least, have you ever showed up with Mek Gunz at a tournament with the "wrong" shooting head and had issues? I have showed up at tournaments with my 9 Mek Gunz, and ive had none bat an eye. Not even my Ork opponents.

I highly doubt our opponents are going to give a damn, about our Mek Gun firing heads, to be fair.

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
Why even bother to magnetize the Mek Gunz? No one outside orks know what the difference between a traktor kannon and a kustom mega kannon looks like.

I have different shooting heads on all my mek gunz, and i run them as what ever i want
.

Well. I trust you won't have problem with marines running predators as vindicators, terminator models as any terminator sheet etc. Centurions as aggressors etc

After all,consistencv

You must have accidentally posted in the wrong thread. Threads for arguments made in bad faith can be found here, here and here.

To everyone else I can just advise to not respond to tneva anymore. It has been years since he actually contributed anything of value here.

 Jidmah wrote:

Tsagualsa wrote:
Yeah, some of the ork stratagems are weirdly situational. Careen needs you to roll the 6 for Deadly Demise, and 'Mob Rule' is basically a very conditional +1CP cost for other Stratagems that allows you to use them on Battleshocked units. Probably not something that would come up that often.

Mob rule is actually a headscratcher to me. Is there a way to use it at all? You have to use it in your command phase, and it only lasts till the end of the command phase - which means you can only use other command phase stratagems which are... *checks books* ... just insane bravery?

I think it's meant to represent something like the 10th edition 'Mob rule' that basically got you auto insane bravery if your fleeing unit ran into a larger ork mob, as the two units would merge together.

As it stands, you need to have an ORK INFANTRY mob with more than 10 models and above half-strength to target with Mob Rule, then after that OTHER Ork units within 6'' of that can be targetted with Stratagems even though they're battleshocked. It's extremely situational, and honestly, for all the conditions that have to align, it should not cost a CP; and then as you said, there is not much you could actually use this Stratagem with. It's probably meant to work with 'rally'-style Stratagems, but... there aren't any, really. It could possibly be a leftover thing from an earlier version of the game or something, as it stands now it basically does nothing... if you could target a battleshocked unit and remove Battelshock from it if another big unit was nearby it would have some use (and probably still be underpowered), as it stands now it's basically useless.

Beardedragon wrote:


I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.
.

Sorry but that's double standards.

If you want to play loose with wysiwyg fine. But if you then expect your opponent to be strict with wysiwyg that turns you into tfg jerk.

It goes both way. You can't have special exception just because your army.

Now as long as you have no issue with opponent being equally loose with wysiwyg no problem. But if you don't follow wysiwyg don't expect opponent either.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:
You could have mini Meks give +1 to hit to a unit of 3 Mek Gunz firing from the backline.

Thats not bad.

I've been meaning to assemble mine, are the different guns easy to magnetize?

note that Meks give +1 to hit to the model it heals, not a unit.

I'm actually thinking traktor kannons are our best bet for mek gunz now. SOOOO many units have fly nowadays it's almost never not going to have a decent target. Also slightly terrifed of ghost arks reanimation rule for crons so I need to kill those asap.

Guess we better hope our opponents aren't too strict on WYSIWYG when it comes to BWs with deffrollas the way GW has it currently worded.

Whew, boy oh boy has so much changed.

A little disappointed by our opentopped vehicles not having any sort of assault ramp ability. Or many weapons having the assault keyword in general. It just interacts with our run and charge ability poorly. you wanna go mechanized for the protection but then can't use all our rules.

Our relics are, okay, useful not nothing super scarey. Except maybe a warboss getting headwhoppas killchoppa. 9 attacks on the waagh turn, use unbridaled carnage to proc mortal wounds for the many hits you'll get. Also works on squigasaur bosses cause I'm pretty sure waaagh affects profiles with extra attacks unless the extra attack rules specify you can't modify it somewhere. Oh, killchoppa+ beastsnagga anti big guys isn't a bad combo.

Most of our transports feel like gunplatforms or gun delivery vehicles now. Unless a unit has some special rule not on it's weapon you may as well slap it in a battlewagon for the durability and the ability to buff the shots with a mini mek.

Bit disappointed by our characters, a lot of copy paste buffs and the lieutenant types always take up a leader slot in a unit which some factions dodge, not super fond of that. The squigasaur bosses are pure beatsticks now, Mozrog in particular is durabile with a 4++ and 4+ FNP. Oh, and who a character can join is suuuuper limited for us combined with how small many of our units are. Hopefully the ork codex will bring some more mega armoued stuff to diversify.

Our vehicles are a weird mixed bag. Some of the speedfreaks ones are weird little debuffers, the boomdakka hovering around shortrange firefights or combats could swing a fight, passing out -1 to hit.

WHY IS THE PAINBOY AN ASSASSIN! 1 or 2 attacks that crit infantry on a 4+ have precision and do d6 mortals... I'm just, so confused. Do the mortals carry the precison? I'm assuming mortals spill over like they used to, being allocated one after a nother.

Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

cody.d. wrote:
Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

I can relate

 Jidmah wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Ugh, I wanna do a rundown on my thoughts of every unit. But that's a lotta text/thoughts.

I can relate

It's also weird, you have to reference what a unit can do with the buffs available rather than what a character can do for the faction in previous books.

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

 JNAProductions wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

Yeah it's weird. The initial attack has precision, representing the painboy grabbing someone fancy and giving them a poke. Then the unit as a whole take d6 wounds, I dunno, out of pure empathy? But the target unit does get to allocate the mortals it seems.

 The Red Hobbit wrote:

 Afrodactyl wrote:

 The Red Hobbit wrote:


Heck yeah my Lootas are finally good!! (6+ on the Deffgun) of course

Lootas look like they might be usable from an accuracy standpoint. They're a 5+ when stationary, rerolling 1s to hit or full rerolls to hit if shooting at something on an objective. For orks that's not bad at all in terms of accuracy.

Oh the rerolls are great, but we were so close to having 5+ Heavy Deffguns, would have been spectacular
I'm really looking forward to running them. My Shokkjump Dragsta looks quite a bit more useful as well, might be time to pick up a second one. Unfortunately I think the Snazzwagon isn't going to see play until we get different detachments.

AFAIK a units datasheet abilities do not transfer when they embark. You only add the weapon profile to the vehicle as a firing deck weapon option.. not tankbusta rules or loota rules or flashgitz rules… or leader auras etc…. so it’s limited

cody.d. wrote:

 JNAProductions wrote:

 flaming tadpole wrote:

cody.d. wrote:
Do the mortals carry the precison?

yes

Not the way I read it.

It says the UNIT suffers 1d6 Mortals, not the model.

Yeah it's weird. The initial attack has precision, representing the painboy grabbing someone fancy and giving them a poke. Then the unit as a whole take d6 wounds, I dunno, out of pure empathy? But the target unit does get to allocate the mortals it seems.

Oh, and Extra attacks cannot be modified by any other rules. Although, maybe sustained hits can still give you the additional hit? Cause it seems attacks and hits are separate things?

I mostly feel good about the index though there are a few things that don't feel good for me on some of the units.

Positive highlights:

- Ramshackle for vehicles became a 6+ invuln, which I believe is much simpler, less conditional and straight forward to remember
- WAAAGH! Banner Nob is even better than what I imagined it would be, depending on the points potentially an insta-take to double dip on WAAAGH! benefits.
- Grots stay relevant! I'm kinda shocked they kept their OC as 2 considering how badly GW seemed to want them to have no objective holding capacity in the previous edition. Giving them the ability to farm CP is just gravy. Also, the runtherd being part of the unit makes me happy that I painted up 3 of them
- strats and enhancements look solid, nothing looks particularly useless, though I do wish we had a few strats that weren't so situational like Careen and Mob Rule
- Despite lacking Lone Operative and Leader, the Beastboss on Squigosaur (and the Mozgrod) does look an absolute tank of a unit, which is good to see
- KFF is back to a proper full invuln save, only against shooting and for the unit it's attached to, but its still infinitely more useful in this format than what it was in 9th (especially with a lot of psychic attacks now being a regular shooting profile rather than just spamming mortal wounds)
- Stuff like the Big Mek in MA and Painboyz/Painbosses actually giving useful FNP and other model recovery rules is fantastic
- Dakkajet and Wazbom look actually decent, depending on the points, I'm really lucky these are the two I own
- Walkers actually look good, Deff Dread having a 2+ save and keeping the extra attacks from extra arms is great and the battleshock is awesome (rip squads of 3 though), Kanz look decent and suprising that their Big Shootas are significantly better than other variants in the index, even the Mork/Gorkanaut don't look half bad and actually get bonuses during a WAAAGH!
- Shokk Attack Gun looks like it could actually be fun to use again and can hide in a unit of Mek Gunz.

Negative impressions:
- Lootas are weird with how they made them the only shooty unit that hits on a 6+ baseline. Pretty much forces you to stay still or get buffed by a Mek when you're in a transport/battlewagon. Don't think the rerolls compensate for this and the stats for the deffgun are also subpar compared to normal autocannon stats now (S9, damage 3). I feel like you have better units for long range firepower
- Boyz units special datasheet ability feels very decidedly "meh" and contingent on having a warboss attached. I feel like they should have had something based around being able to fight in three ranks or something reflecting the Green Tide when near obejctives rather than a morale thing.
- Tankbustas, good Gork nowhere is the "no model, no rules policy" clearer than this. It sucks because their actual rules don't look bad, it's the fact that their fixed loadout and unit cap cripples what could be a potentially functional unit. Dreadful and forces you to take 3 units of 5 in a battlewagon to come remotely close to being useful.
- Some of the buggies are kinda weird, like the Snazzwagon, where you would think the cloud of smoke should work more like the DA Darkshroud, you have to force yourself into combat to give penalties to your opponent
- I'm surprised that I haven't heard many negative things about Meganobz? Not crazy that we're capped at 6 now for a unit and more importantly I'm shocked they have only 2(!) attacks with the Killsaws, even for the twin version. Even with WAAAGH! buffs....that's absurdly low for a Nob unit, you'd think it'd be at least 3. Even the MA Mek has 3 with his Killsaw.
- The bombers we have are trash, pretty much shelved until further notice.
- grabbin klaw and wreckin ball are missed opportunities to give more flavour to vehicle options
- no assault ramp rule anywhere, which is disappointing for a very assault oriented army
- shootas are never going to be taken still

That's my first thoughts, so overall more positive than negative, but very interested in seeing what the missions look like so we can see how we play with our units towards objectives.

Agreed on all points. Tankbustas got hit in the nards, the only saving grace is with no force ork if they're cheap you can just have 3 units wandering around.

Lootas may be useful as overwatch? The volume of fire is okay and hitting on sixes doesn't matter there. Pop them in a battle wagon and drive to within 24 inches for rapid.

Meganobz are indeed a weird unit atm. You can make them pretty durable with a megamek, or add to their killiness with Ghaz. Shame Banner can't join. Tossing up if i'd bother with the megaboss. As for loadout, klaw and kombi seems the be the workhorse loadout, more attacks and all.

Boyz do feel like, I unno, character caddies? Also the only bloody way we can have 2 characters in a unit.

yep agreed too. I think flash gitz depending on points could be pretty good or even great especially for overwatch (though they probably will be as good as dead as soon as you disembark them from a transport).

Painboy/painboss I think are really gonna be the core of a lot of our armies to survive the onslaught of mw and just general durability so I'm really hoping they are reasonably costed.

cody.d. wrote:
Agreed on all points. Tankbustas got hit in the nards, the only saving grace is with no force ork if they're cheap you can just have 3 units wandering around.

Lootas may be useful as overwatch? The volume of fire is okay and hitting on sixes doesn't matter there. Pop them in a battle wagon and drive to within 24 inches for rapid.

Meganobz are indeed a weird unit atm. You can make them pretty durable with a megamek, or add to their killiness with Ghaz. Shame Banner can't join. Tossing up if i'd bother with the megaboss. As for loadout, klaw and kombi seems the be the workhorse loadout, more attacks and all.

Boyz do feel like, I unno, character caddies? Also the only bloody way we can have 2 characters in a unit.

Definitely feels like we got gimped in terms of not having more variety in terms of having more units that can take 2 characters or characters having the lieutenant rule of being added on with another Leader, I feel like most of our Oddboyz units like Weirdboyz, Big Meks, and Painboyz should have had this rider so it doesn't feel like we're cutting characters out just because we can't fit them with a bodyguard unit. As it is, it feels like the arbitrary nature of the limited lists of which characters can join which unit really limits some of the synergies we can pull off.

 JohnU wrote:
Guess we better hope our opponents aren't too strict on WYSIWYG when it comes to BWs with deffrollas the way GW has it currently worded.

Gonna have to rip off those wheels if you want a deffrolla

I'm wondering whether the Mekboy's healing ability for vehicles can be stacked with the Mek Workshop's healing ability, for 2 x d3 wounds back per turn.

Mekaniak: At the end of your Movement phase, you can select one friendly Orks Vehicle model within 3" of this model. That Vehicle model regains up to D3 lost wounds, and, until the start of your next Movement phase, each time that Vehicle model makes an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll. Each model can only be selected for this ability once per turn.

Workshop: When this Fortification is set up, all parts of it must be set up within 1” of another part. At the end of your Movement phase, each friendly Orks Vehicle model within 12” of this Fortification can regain up to D3 lost wounds (roll separately for each model). Each model can only be affected by this ability once per turn.

It's the two words 'up to' which makes me think know but it's not explicit.

Also the Fortification rule is weirdly worded, can't make sense of it at all.

tneva82 wrote:

Beardedragon wrote:


I dont know what the difference is on those things.

But you cant put the same rules on orks as you do on space marines. We build models out of literal trash, they dont.
.

Sorry but that's double standards.

If you want to play loose with wysiwyg fine. But if you then expect your opponent to be strict with wysiwyg that turns you into tfg jerk.

It goes both way. You can't have special exception just because your army.

Now as long as you have no issue with opponent being equally loose with wysiwyg no problem. But if you don't follow wysiwyg don't expect opponent either.

Lets play: Spot the space marine main. Oh, i found him.

You wanna call out an ork player for having cool and varied Mek Gunz? Sure why not.

Having a different mek gun firing head is not the same thing as using two different kinds of actual tanks on the field. At best it would be the same as either using a plasma weapon but calling it the weapon those hellblaster squads have instead. The weapons are much identical in terms of what they do and how they look so i wouldnt care at all and wouldnt know the difference.

But i dont run a battlewagon and call it a kill tank either.

To be fair, no TO is going to care about your mek gun firing heads. He will only look at you weirdly for wasting his time

 PaddyMick wrote:
I'm wondering whether the Mekboy's healing ability for vehicles can be stacked with the Mek Workshop's healing ability, for 2 x d3 wounds back per turn.

Mekaniak: At the end of your Movement phase, you can select one friendly Orks Vehicle model within 3" of this model. That Vehicle model regains up to D3 lost wounds, and, until the start of your next Movement phase, each time that Vehicle model makes an attack, add 1 to the Hit roll. Each model can only be selected for this ability once per turn.

Workshop: When this Fortification is set up, all parts of it must be set up within 1” of another part. At the end of your Movement phase, each friendly Orks Vehicle model within 12” of this Fortification can regain up to D3 lost wounds (roll separately for each model). Each model can only be affected by this ability once per turn.

It's the two words 'up to' which makes me think know but it's not explicit.

Also the Fortification rule is weirdly worded, can't make sense of it at all.

The exact components of a mekshop is also more fuzzy. Last edition it was the building, 3 barricades and 3 scrap piles now it's... I dunno. Just the building? Everything in the kit? If it's everything you can daisy chain them and give a huge portion of your army (vehicles at least) d3 wounds a turn.

Burnaboyz have some legs this edition. D6 flamers, re-rolling wounds if you can get up close(Though it is model by model. LAAAAAME). followed by a couple AP2 melee swings. Could do some damage, be useful in transports. Shame they don't have assault though, GW has been real stingy with that rule.

I'm disappointed with the index cause the only good thing left are snaggas in a wagon.
Man's have hilariously low number of attacks, scrap jets are nerfed loosing half the firepower for no good reason