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if you are the one who paints buttons, you are not the target group anyway

It's odd, but contrast has increased the quality of my painting by allowing for fully shaded and highlighted minis to be done within a fast timescale.

One thing I picked up from the excellent 'eavy contrast videos on youtube is that sometimes a mid-grey primer and contrast gives an excellent dark, shaded finish that is the perfect base to highlight up from with darker minis.

Doing some orks at the moment and it's working out brilliantly - grey primer, metal in bright silver then black templar over clothes and metal, gore-grunta for straps and pouches, militarum green on skin and it's then ready to build up with edge highlights and glazing which I have the time to do thanks to the contrast basecoat stage being insanely fast.

The best thing about contrast has never been the one-coat style of painting, but the acceleration of the generally very tedious basecoat + shade stage, saving time for the more enjoyable process of highlighting. So, from that perspective speedpaint misses the mark quite a bit.

 insaniak wrote:
My point was that the people these paints are primarily aimed at aren't particularly concerned with touch-ups

I'm extremely concerned with touchups. I want a clean paint job that looks good but doesn't take 4-5 layers to basecoat, which I used to do with many colors. You can slap on 1 thick coat for the nice contrast effect, or 2-3 thin coats and have it look like a normal paint job.

 kodos wrote:
if you are the one who paints buttons, you are not the target group anyway

To me that's a problem. The target group is so small you need a sniper rifle to hit it.

If you care about painting fast, but would actually fix a mistake, then you're not the target group. If you are painting a model where it would be faster to do an over all ink first then come back and paint in the details (like the Space Marine armour joints or heraldry on the shield of a knight), then you're not in the target group. If you want to paint fast but think a one coat solution looks too plain and would like to add a bit more contrast with a targetted wash or edge highlight, then you're not in the target group.

 kodos wrote:
if you are the one who paints buttons, you are not the target group anyway

As near as I can tell, the target seems to be those who can't paint, don't care, have exactly $4 per paint pot, and the need to slop a single color on a scaly/hairy model for the sole purpose of demonstrating what the color looks like.

The savings over contrast aren't enough to deal with the hassle. It reminds me of buying a car with no windshield wipers and bragging you saved a few bucks. Just pay the slightly higher price and get the real thing.

I was hopeful this would be new colors, because a few contrast colors look kind of crappy (all purple, dark blue, dark brown), but Dana Howls video shows they essentially look just like contrast.

AllSeeingSkink wrote:

deano2099 wrote:
I stand by the fact that if you actually go through AP's own coverage and claims around the paints, they are focused entirely on "one coat" and the speed painting element. They've never claimed that they're for any other use.

In my mind, being able to paint over another paint is such a basic feature of acrylic paints that you wouldn't expect it to be explicitly stated, rather if it is unsuitable for that purpose then there should be a disclaimer as such.
Like, you don't see in car advertisements "And it can be driven in the rain!" because that's just assumed in the modern world that a car can be driven in the rain.
Acrylic paints dry fast and you can paint over them. That's just how they work.

Is THAT why my car disintegrated around me this afternoon when I was coming home? Makes sense now. Clearly, my own fault.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 BobtheInquisitor wrote:
Except I would have had to pay more and give GW money to use Contrast paints. I’ve been using Vallejo and Army Painter for years.

Here ya go:
https://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum/posts/list/261541.page


deano - others have already answered your points, so I'd just be repeating myself. And them.

I've been painting over the speed paints fine, I'm in the process of dialling down the drying time, I've been applying them, leaving them for at least 8 hours and painting over again with no issues at all. They just take a lot longer to dry than contrast.

Now, this is a problem with the idea of them being 'speed paints', you can't speed paint a unit with them if you want to use additional techniques in a quick time at all - well you can, but what I mean more is you can't paint a unit in a morning to be used that afternoon if you want to layer over the contrast - but they are fine once they dry, no issues at all.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:

Now, this is a problem with the idea of them being 'speed paints', you can't speed paint a unit with them if you want to use additional techniques in a quick time at all - well you can, but what I mean more is you can't paint a unit in a morning to be used that afternoon if you want to layer over the contrast - but they are fine once they dry, no issues at all.

To an extent, this is true of any washes - they're faster to apply than doing shading manually, but then you have that pesky drying time.

Exactly how long that drying time needs to be with Speedpaint is still the big unknown.

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I've been painting over the speed paints fine, I'm in the process of dialling down the drying time, I've been applying them, leaving them for at least 8 hours and painting over again with no issues at all. They just take a lot longer to dry than contrast.

Now, this is a problem with the idea of them being 'speed paints', you can't speed paint a unit with them if you want to use additional techniques in a quick time at all - well you can, but what I mean more is you can't paint a unit in a morning to be used that afternoon if you want to layer over the contrast - but they are fine once they dry, no issues at all.

What primer are you using? I've waited 24 hours, applied a bit of water via brush, and the color reactivated.

I have ordered the smaller "Speed paint" set just to give them a try, so will report back with my findings as they should be delivered in a day or two.

I have really enjoyed using Contrast for certain miniatures, it just has to be the right kind of miniature. And one thing a lot of people do not seem to do is mix contrast paints to create their own colours, so excited to see how the Speed Paint works in that regard.

Take my Lugganath Eldar, their armour is a 50/50 mix of Gryph Hound Orange and Iyanden Yellow with a touch of medium to get the colour I wanted:

ListenToMeWarriors wrote:

I have really enjoyed using Contrast for certain miniatures, it just has to be the right kind of miniature. And one thing a lot of people do not seem to do is mix contrast paints to create their own colours, so excited to see how the Speed Paint works in that regard.

Same, I do it all the time.

It was more luck than skill but this perfect skintone was, I believe, a variable mix of Scale75 Phoenix Egg, Phoenix Feather and a drop of GW Voluptious Pink.

Azazel, thanks for the wash recipe. I’ll check it out if I don’t like the speed paints I’ve already bought. Hopefully I will get a chance to use them sometime this month.

I’ve been using washes since the days of Future Floor Wax, so I’m used to waiting a day for my minis to dry before moving onto the next step. A lot of the negatives I’m hearing just don’t apply to me.

I love to mix contrast paints and washes as well, so my excitement for speedpaints is exactly that: a huge range of colours in easy to use dropper bottles.

Always found mixing contrast paints to be rather user-unfriendly. Looking forward to playing with the Speedpaint blues and yellows to see what I can come up with!

> Azazel, thanks for the wash recipe. I’ll check it out if I don’t like the speed paints I’ve already bought. Hopefully I will get a chance to use them sometime this month.

I've been using Les Bursley's wash recipe for years, primarily on terrain. Interestingly enough, the components you use for both Goobertown Hobbies "not contrast" and Les Bursley's wash are the same: matte medium, flow aid and water, and acrylic ink. GH's contrast recipe is actually even simpler than Les Bursley, and you can just dilute it with water (or water and 1/20 flow aid) to a wash. Secret Weapon Miniatures (out of business) had a wash line based on Les Bursley's wash, and I highly recommend their Stone wash, if you have dungeons to paint.

I recommend starting with LB's wash if you have a batchload of stone or wood to paint, and get a shot glass with measuring marks to mix and hold your wash in.

> I’ve been using washes since the days of Future Floor Wax, so I’m used to waiting a day for my minis to dry before moving onto the next step. A lot of the negatives I’m hearing just don’t apply to me.

I've found washes and hobby paints to take less than an hour to dry around here, so the negatives of Speedpaint apply even more to me!

> deano - others have already answered your points, so I'd just be repeating myself. And them.

Same ditto, including for the videos. And who else remembers RAID?

One thing I have not heard about Speed Paint is how "potent" they smell, an almost alcohol like smell from them.

First tests with them have gone well, a few bubbles when applying them that dissappear and make no difference to the finish once dried. Will see if I have any issues with reactivation today.

 ced1106 wrote:
> Azazel, thanks for the wash recipe. I’ll check it out if I don’t like the speed paints I’ve already bought. Hopefully I will get a chance to use them sometime this month.

I've been using Les Bursley's wash recipe for years, primarily on terrain. Interestingly enough, the components you use for both Goobertown Hobbies "not contrast" and Les Bursley's wash are the same: matte medium, flow aid and water, and acrylic ink. GH's contrast recipe is actually even simpler than Les Bursley, and you can just dilute it with water (or water and 1/20 flow aid) to a wash. Secret Weapon Miniatures (out of business) had a wash line based on Les Bursley's wash, and I highly recommend their Stone wash, if you have dungeons to paint.

Antimatter games (deepwars, shadowseas) has a similar recipe for their paint guides and when contrast paint came out he was talking in a FB about how similar contrast was to his particular mix.

I painted up Boxcar willie with Speedpaint.





After painting him I let him dry for 4-5 hours. Paint was surface dry at least, and I added some craft paint metal to the chain one the chainsaw. No issues I could detect. Let it dry a couple more hours and attempted to use a brush on acrylic varnish. The blue reactivated and made a mess. I let it dry, re-did the blue, let it dry a full day and used a spray varnish.

So, yes, I did have reactivation issues. Annoying but I can work around it.

I do like the colors and the 'one coat' shading. When I get to figures requiring face detail I think I'm going to try speed paint flesh, varnish, paint eyes/lips whatever. Am also prepared to do faces with normal acrylics but want to try the speedpaint method at least once.

He came out better than most models I paint with base coats, washes and highlights.

Irdiumstern wrote:

 endlesswaltz123 wrote:
I've been painting over the speed paints fine, I'm in the process of dialling down the drying time, I've been applying them, leaving them for at least 8 hours and painting over again with no issues at all. They just take a lot longer to dry than contrast.

Now, this is a problem with the idea of them being 'speed paints', you can't speed paint a unit with them if you want to use additional techniques in a quick time at all - well you can, but what I mean more is you can't paint a unit in a morning to be used that afternoon if you want to layer over the contrast - but they are fine once they dry, no issues at all.

What primer are you using? I've waited 24 hours, applied a bit of water via brush, and the color reactivated.

Just a really basic black spray from halfords (A car supply shop in the UK).

I'm wondering if those having issues are due to climate in some regards, and how hard brushes are and/or pressure. I genuinely don't think I could get anything to reactivate unless I scrubbed it with a brush, as opposed to paint with it.

Weird though, there are evident issues.

I've heard this sort of thing works very well on BFG minis, which can have details too small to reasonably highlight and shade. I'll have to give it a try and see how it measures up compared to my usual.

 BaronIveagh wrote:
I've heard this sort of thing works very well on BFG minis, which can have details too small to reasonably highlight and shade. I'll have to give it a try and see how it measures up compared to my usual.

I dunno how well it works for inorganic models like that.

I used red contrast paint (flesh tearers from memory) for my Ork Aeronautica Imperialis squadron, but partly because that's a case where looking a bit messy is totally fine.

Another figure painted with (mostly) Speedpaint:



Went over the branches/vines on the torso with regular acrylics over the purple Speedpaint. No noticeable reactivation.

How much extra time did it take you to add that acrylic layer compared to adding a layer over contrast paints?

I've never used contrast paints. I let it dry an hour or so, I expected reactivation because of what happened with the brush on varnish.

 CptJake wrote:
I painted up Boxcar willie with Speedpaint.

Spoiler:

After painting him I let him dry for 4-5 hours. Paint was surface dry at least, and I added some craft paint metal to the chain one the chainsaw. No issues I could detect. Let it dry a couple more hours and attempted to use a brush on acrylic varnish. The blue reactivated and made a mess. I let it dry, re-did the blue, let it dry a full day and used a spray varnish.

So, yes, I did have reactivation issues. Annoying but I can work around it.

I do like the colors and the 'one coat' shading. When I get to figures requiring face detail I think I'm going to try speed paint flesh, varnish, paint eyes/lips whatever. Am also prepared to do faces with normal acrylics but want to try the speedpaint method at least once.

Thank you again for posting these experiences. Also seems like speedpaint works best if you have a neat hand to start with, at least.

Favorite Speedpaint video so far linked below. Not mine.

What is mine, I finally got my hands on a basic starter and got a BB Wood Elf Wardancer painted up, loving it so far. The bleedthrough is a bigger issue than reactivation for me, but I think it's a feature not a bug. Carefully blocking in colors is the hard part, but once down the reactivation-issue means you can highlight with white (or any bright version of the same color) and it bleeds down to a bright colored highlight, like overhighlighting then glazing back down used to be. I don't have a really pink skintone like the Crusader Skin (all of mine are a bit more yellow), my closest was Stynelrenze Flesh primer, but I was pleasantly surprised when the bleedthrough tinted it into the correct color for highlights, then highlighted again with white Stynelrenze Primer that also bled into bright pinkish flesh higher highlights. Occasionally the white was too bright (on the Orc Flesh green cloth) and a thinned AP Speedpaint over that knocked it back down just like a traditional glaze. Sure, you'll need to varnish before details are painted like buttons and shoelaces etc, but overall I got some really great results and it was SUPER quick. Not -quite- one and done like the ads, in fact nowhere near, I love this as a base to highlight from, but it's so far much more controllable and far less splotchy than Contrast. I do think AP Speedpaint works better than Contrast for how I specifically paint models (techniques will vary). I'm LOVING 1 drop Zealot Yellow to 3 drops Pallid Bone for blonde hair, then thin edge highlight of white that turns yellowy-creamy-off-white is amazing.

My biggest disappointment is there's no black or white in the small starter, would have preferred either over the orange since we also got a yellow and a red in it. A darker brown than leather would have been nice, but mixing in gravelord grey darkened it nicely enough to separate the leather from wood. Mostly I'm just disappointed that it's april and I can't buy them individually quite yet, except direct. Boo. Also, all my Contrast pots are opened and at least partially used, so I can't return them. Also Boo.

They still don't seem to be available in Australia.

I did lose a bit of interest with the reactivation stuff, though one application I'm interested in is to see how well they can be blended from one colour to another.

I quite like this effect, but this is also a really "easy" model for contrasts or speed paints alike, I'm interested in how hard it would be to achieve something like this on a cleaner but less detailed/textured model.




I've also seen some videos of people using it to paint flowing robes and capes and in that application I think "one coat and done" technique is rather lacking.

I ttied to get them to reactivate after just 30m and they just wouldnt.
I feel as if that was a none issue TBH

Still doing tests, now with more textured stuff (a victrix viking), but honestly, as a one-coat solution, so far it's working pretty well...