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Deviants were also created by the Celestials, I don't think the reason was given, but I felt it was implied that they were an earlier Eternal variant that found out the truth.
Spoiler:
The Deviants are the first wave, so to speak, sent to a world to remove the 'apex predators', allowing the populations to grow to aid in the emergence, except that they started eating everything, thereby defeating their actual purpose, so the Celestials created the Eternals to stop them.
Deviants were also created by the Celestials, I don't think the reason was given, but I felt it was implied that they were an earlier Eternal variant that found out the truth.
Spoiler:
The Deviants are the first wave, so to speak, sent to a world to remove the 'apex predators', allowing the populations to grow to aid in the emergence, except that they started eating everything, thereby defeating their actual purpose, so the Celestials created the Eternals to stop them.
Yes, thanks! I remember that scene now you've described it
Ex-Mantic Rules Committees: Kings of War, Warpath
"The Emperor is obviously not a dictator, he's a couch." Starbuck: "Why can't we use the starboard launch bays?"
Engineer: "Because it's a gift shop!"
There’s also the oddity of this one being pretty stand alone. For the first time in a long time (quite possibly not since Hulk? Perhaps GotG?) there’s no actual crossover.
Yes the dialogue takes pains to point out this is part of the MCU, but there’s no outside team up. Not even a cameo. Kingo does mention he knows or at least knew Thor, but that’s about it.
It creates an oddly insular film, which actually suits the characters quite nicely. For 7,000+ years, they’ve been their own family. Them and no-one else, because nobody else lives as long as them,
It also helps show how seriously they took their charge of non-interference. And it’s pretty much a character driven film, even during the fight scenes which are fairly few and far between.
It’s definitely a bold breaking of the mold, and I suspect it will be equally cursed and blessed by that. Some will love its Otherness, some will loathe its Otherness.
But it’s still a perfectly well made movie.
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Baragash wrote: I wouldn’t have recognised his voice, but I suspect most people know who someone that headlined a series of True Detective, had more than 30 episodes of House of Cards, appeared in several epsiodes of Luke Cage, and has 2 Best Supporting Oscars in the last 4 years (as well as a bunch of all the other awards on the circuit) is.
{shrugs}
I pay little-to-no attention to the Oscars etc, never have, never saw True Detective, and there's a vast # of actors of all skill lvs whom I never remember their names. I'm sure when I see him in Blade though I'll think "Oh, that guy - from (House of Cards)".
Lance845 wrote: None of what I am about to say comes from the movie outside of the trailers.
MDSW wrote: I guess it will be explained, as I have many questions...
If this is part of the MCU and after Endgame, why did they not intervene in a universal baddie looking to wipe out half of the universe (and Earth)? It does not get much more deviant than that.
The Celestials told them not to. It works like this. The celestials travel around or appear in places in groups called Hosts. They do things to planets and on planets and to the things that live on planets for reasons that are not particularly clear and have different explanations depending on continuity. In a non-canonical series called Earth X, for example, the molten core of earth is a nascent Celestial. Most planets with molten cores and life are. They are basically celestial eggs. Galactus devouring planets is a galactic predator that keeps celestial numbers in check. The celestial modify the genetics of the species on the planet to create basically an immune system to protect the baby. Thats why earth has mutants and so many super powered people. They are a white blood cell system to attempt to protect the baby till it "hatches".
In 616 (the main universe in the comics) The Eternals are taken from prehuman stock, modified greatly and tasked with overseeing the experiment until the next Celestial Host arrives. They are given strict instructions on what they can and cannot interfere with because doing otherwise would tamper with the experiment. Other bits of the Prehuman stock are modified in a bunch of ways so that certain evolutionary paths are available and things are likely to occur in certain ways. Basically it results in the X gene. (An aside to this. Apocolypse's "survival of the fittest" is about ensuring that the population of Earth is deemed worthy and survives the next Celestial Host.His tech is actually some celestial tech and his ship is a celestial ship.) But also, later, the Kree come along and see how genetically capable humanity are and tamper with them further creating the off shoot that is the Inhumans as an experiment to make weapons for the Kree Skrull war.
The Deviants are just like the Eternals in the comics. Taken from pre human stock, modified greatly, except they are monstrous. Thanos is actually a descendant of the Deviants in the comics which explains why hes so damn tough and hard to kill. Thats right. Thanos is actually distantly descended from Earth.
In the comics, are they also part of the greater MCU universe? After the human super-heroes evolved, was there just no reason for the Eternals to get involved in anything and just went against their legacy to sit back and watch?
Yes, but very rarely if ever used for much. The Eternals in the comics are literally immortal in a way that is stupefying and would make them suck the tension out of any conflict. You could atomize them and they will reconstitute.
Why was it necessary to make them part of the MCU? Might have been a better set up for this to be an unconnected group and movie - sure, made by Marvel, but separately.
I guess I will need to see the movie after all!!
My guess is we are digging into the MCU version of all that history and mythology to bring things forward. Mutants are tied to this. The celestial Hosts are a big deal. The Black Knight is in this movie and I am sure thats so he can go do some stuff in future movies as well. This whole movie is going to be like introducing the Tesseract or the power stone. Except it's not one trinket. It's a swathe of trinkets in the shape of people and foundational events that shape why things are the way they are.
Thanks for taking the time to write this - really interesting to know!
Does the Black Knight ever do anything in the comics? I realize this is setting up for something, but I remember him as a C-list Avenger with a magic sword (and maybe the sheath from excalibur?), a curse (turning into stone, or something) and a penchant for wearing actual chainmail (as imagined by comic book artists) as his costume.
That's... literally it. I don't remember if he was involved with Marvel universe Merlin the way Captain Britain was or not, but... maybe?
But when I read Avengers in the late 80s it was Black Knight, Dr Druid, cat lady #?? (Tigra, Cheetara, something like that), maybe Wasp, She-Hulk sometimes and... a couple cameos from Cap or Thor when they weren't busy elsewhere. Maybe some other nobodies, but... I'm not exactly invested in this guy being the set up for later films.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/09 02:30:06
Voss wrote: Does the Black Knight ever do anything in the comics? I realize this is setting up for something, but I remember him as a C-list Avenger with a magic sword (and maybe the sheath from excalibur?), a curse (turning into stone, or something) and a penchant for wearing actual chainmail (as imagined by comic book artists) as his costume.
That's... literally it. I don't remember if he was involved with Marvel universe Merlin the way Captain Britain was or not, but... maybe?
I know very little about the Black Knight except that the Ebony Blade is cursed to drive you closer to madness every time it draws blood, and that it gives you a bunch of protections. Your basically immune to magic (neat with Dr. Strange and gak out in the universe. Maybe even being a weapon against a power mad Scarlet Witch. And it can cut through anything but some metals (adamantium) and other magic swords. He also had a bunch of gadgets and gak ala sky cycles and a lance that shot lasers. I doubt that gak is going to make it into the MCU.
But when I read Avengers in the late 80s it was Black Knight, Dr Druid, cat lady #?? (Tigra, Cheetara, something like that), maybe Wasp, She-Hulk sometimes and... a couple cameos from Cap or Thor when they weren't busy elsewhere. Maybe some other nobodies, but... I'm not exactly invested in this guy being the set up for later films.
His most recent big thing is the Ebony Blade being an effective weapon against Knull the God of the Symbiotes. But I suspect his roll is going to have more to do with magic gak. Team up with Blade. Fight Scarlet Witch. Maybe participate in reigning in a Ghost Rider or something.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Voss wrote: Does the Black Knight ever do anything in the comics? I realize this is setting up for something, but I remember him as a C-list Avenger with a magic sword (and maybe the sheath from excalibur?), a curse (turning into stone, or something) and a penchant for wearing actual chainmail (as imagined by comic book artists) as his costume.
That's... literally it. I don't remember if he was involved with Marvel universe Merlin the way Captain Britain was or not, but... maybe?
But when I read Avengers in the late 80s it was Black Knight, Dr Druid, cat lady #?? (Tigra, Cheetara, something like that), maybe Wasp, She-Hulk sometimes and... a couple cameos from Cap or Thor when they weren't busy elsewhere. Maybe some other nobodies, but... I'm not exactly invested in this guy being the set up for later films.
In the late 80's to late 90's he also grew out a mullet with the obligatory Sawyer from Lost style five o'clock shadow, took to wearing a leather Avengers team jacket over his chainmail, and swapped out the cursed Ebony Blade for a lightsaber that stunned his opponents rather than kill them.
No, seriously.
He also went through this cloying "Gann Josin" toxic relationship garbage with Sersi until he was flung into the Ultraverse where he was deified and given leadership of the team for... reasons, I suppose?
Damn it, now I realize that "Gann Josin" garbage is going to be crammed into the movies too. Damn it...
To the movie itself? I'll watch it when it's free, I suppose. I have a nice litmus test to tell if I'm going to be flat out bored or bitterly disappointed in a comic story, and it usually involves seeing Eternals, Inhumans, or New Gods are part of it. Grant Morrison's JLA comic was pretentious fethery, but became painfully intolerable the second Orion showed up. I actually had that death scene of his as my wallpaper for years because I detest the character so much.
I don't really know Black Knight either as I only vaguely recall him in a few West Coast Avengers comics but that is about it. I have a better grasp of Ironheart and I've never read a single comic she was in. He feels like a non-existent character; a thing imagined more than actually existing with all the weight of a mercurial memory.
Amidst the mists and coldest frosts he thrusts his fists against the posts and still insists he sees the ghosts.
Voss wrote: Does the Black Knight ever do anything in the comics? I realize this is setting up for something, but I remember him as a C-list Avenger with a magic sword (and maybe the sheath from excalibur?), a curse (turning into stone, or something) and a penchant for wearing actual chainmail (as imagined by comic book artists) as his costume.
That's... literally it. I don't remember if he was involved with Marvel universe Merlin the way Captain Britain was or not, but... maybe?
But when I read Avengers in the late 80s it was Black Knight, Dr Druid, cat lady #?? (Tigra, Cheetara, something like that), maybe Wasp, She-Hulk sometimes and... a couple cameos from Cap or Thor when they weren't busy elsewhere. Maybe some other nobodies, but... I'm not exactly invested in this guy being the set up for later films.
Yeah, the MCU is really testing its brand power with F-listers like Black Knight and really even the Eternals themselves. Still, I wouldn't count that brand out.
Voss wrote: Does the Black Knight ever do anything in the comics? I realize this is setting up for something, but I remember him as a C-list Avenger with a magic sword (and maybe the sheath from excalibur?), a curse (turning into stone, or something) and a penchant for wearing actual chainmail (as imagined by comic book artists) as his costume.
That's... literally it. I don't remember if he was involved with Marvel universe Merlin the way Captain Britain was or not, but... maybe?
But when I read Avengers in the late 80s it was Black Knight, Dr Druid, cat lady #?? (Tigra, Cheetara, something like that), maybe Wasp, She-Hulk sometimes and... a couple cameos from Cap or Thor when they weren't busy elsewhere. Maybe some other nobodies, but... I'm not exactly invested in this guy being the set up for later films.
Yeah, the MCU is really testing its brand power with F-listers like Black Knight and really even the Eternals themselves. Still, I wouldn't count that brand out.
Guardians of the Galaxy was this before the movie came out. Remember, nobody knew jack gak about Groot.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Yeah, that's why I said it. However, I'd argue that the chemistry that happened on GotG was pretty unique.
Chloe Zhao is a very talented director, but basically no one thinks she nailed it like Gunn did. It'll be really interesting to see if the studio backs Zhao and the Eternals franchise with sequels or backs away. It's pretty clear they *wanted* a new franchise out of this.
It could be telling that the producer recently said an Eternals sequel isn't 'a must-have'...? I'm not following the BO numbers closely but it seems to be doing fine in that aspect.
If nothing else, Eternals is very much a necessary experiment for the MCU.
Whilst definitely part of the same universe, it’s probably the most Stand Alone in terms of content and feel of the entire franchise. And it’s been a long old time since an MCU has existed in such a comparative vacuum.
I think it did a bang up job of introducing a new faction type thing to the wider MCU, all the more so because we don’t exactly get cameo type appearances. And given the intended non-interference nature of the Eternals themselves, I think that was kind of appropriate.
Yet the ending does kind of open them up to being more involved in the wider picture stuff - without writing any specific narrative cheques it’d have to cash further down the line.
I can definitely understand folk not necessarily enjoying it, but I think it’d be a stretch to say it’s a bad movie.
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Ouze wrote: With the exception of Black Bolt and the giant dog, I couldn't tell you who was an Inhuman and who was an Eternal at gunpoint.
So few Inhuman characters get any kind of play anyway. At this point the most famous and popular is Ms Marvel, Kamala Khan.
Eternals... Nobody knows any of them.
And lets be honest, if Marvel hadn't been throwing a hissy fit about supporting characters owned by other studios when she was created, Kamala would have just been a Mutant.
Ouze wrote: With the exception of Black Bolt and the giant dog, I couldn't tell you who was an Inhuman and who was an Eternal at gunpoint.
So few Inhuman characters get any kind of play anyway. At this point the most famous and popular is Ms Marvel, Kamala Khan.
Eternals... Nobody knows any of them.
And lets be honest, if Marvel hadn't been throwing a hissy fit about supporting characters owned by other studios when she was created, Kamala would have just been a Mutant.
I doubt it. Her origin is rooted in some fairly major events. She was born out of needing a point of view character who was a consequence of those events.
Not to mention the mutant population of Earth had been getting whittled down for years at that point. House of M that really put them on the path to extinction came out in 2005. Long before Marvel Studios got the ball rolling with Iron Man 1.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Ouze wrote: With the exception of Black Bolt and the giant dog, I couldn't tell you who was an Inhuman and who was an Eternal at gunpoint.
So few Inhuman characters get any kind of play anyway. At this point the most famous and popular is Ms Marvel, Kamala Khan.
Eternals... Nobody knows any of them.
And lets be honest, if Marvel hadn't been throwing a hissy fit about supporting characters owned by other studios when she was created, Kamala would have just been a Mutant.
I doubt it. Her origin is rooted in some fairly major events. She was born out of needing a point of view character who was a consequence of those events.
Not to mention the mutant population of Earth had been getting whittled down for years at that point. House of M that really put them on the path to extinction came out in 2005. Long before Marvel Studios got the ball rolling with Iron Man 1.
They had already resolved the House of M stuff at the end of Avengers vs X-Men and created a whole arc where "new lights" were appearing on Cerebro after "No More Phoenix". Khamala was introduced as a character not long after, but this was also the year Avengers was released... and Amazing Spider-Man.
2013-2015 was where the Sony/Fox purge took shape. Inhumans got a huge push at the executive level, being brought in as part of the event that was clearly geared towards testing out Phase 2 with the introduction of stuff like the Black Order. Khamala was created along with Agents of SHIELD using Inhumans as a mutant replacement and the annoucement of the movie. A year later they were cutting as much X-Men and Fantastic Four and the like as they could manage.
I think Khamala would have been created with or without Infinity/Inhumanity. I just don't think she would have been an Inhuman if Marvel hadn't been trying to replace the X-Men with them at the time.
Ouze wrote: With the exception of Black Bolt and the giant dog, I couldn't tell you who was an Inhuman and who was an Eternal at gunpoint.
So few Inhuman characters get any kind of play anyway. At this point the most famous and popular is Ms Marvel, Kamala Khan.
Eternals... Nobody knows any of them.
And lets be honest, if Marvel hadn't been throwing a hissy fit about supporting characters owned by other studios when she was created, Kamala would have just been a Mutant.
That whole episode was incredibly ridiculous. Bad editorial decisions are one thing -- and both Marvel and DC have made plenty of those. But that was a company temper tantrum wrapped in the cloak of a business decision.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2021/11/09 20:25:23
I am just saying Kamala's origin is tied to the terrigen bomb. She was a point of view character of what happens to all the people that suddenly manifest their inhuman abilities in the aftermath of that.
They might have made another Pakistani-American character without that story arc. But they made HER and her circumstances and initial issues in the wake of that very inhuman event.
Not that there is much of a point in speculating on the What If... Marvel wasn't being weird about Fox properties? time line of comics. But I suspect that if there was an entirely different set of world events in the comic the character we would have gotten wouldn't be the same character.
These are my opinions. This is how I feel. Others may feel differently. This needs to be stated for some reason.
Voss wrote: He really did hit the series idea really hard.
Its not quite that easy, but I can see why that seems like a more rational approach to an... 8? member ensemble of characters few people care about.
The movie could have definitely been more scaled back in terms of cast so they could have more time to breathe with some of the more central characters rather than being forced to split it up between everybody.
