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I asked for quarterly updates. I was initially going to ask for monthly updates, but then I decided that it was actually better to have it update every three months as monthly updates could cause headaches for trying to remember what all the latest rules and values are. That said, if all the books were free on their digital app and were kept up to date within 12hrs of publicly released changes, then I suppose monthly could work.

It might cause some problems for tournaments before they figure out how to schedule around it, but it should only throw competent ones off for the first year or so as GW inevitably starts strong and slowly backtracks and pushes the updates later and later until it's back to yearly.

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But 40k didn't significantly change from 8th to 9th! Many things that annoyed me in 8th still apply to 9th. It's just stupid behavior to ignore reasons why people quit

 SergentSilver wrote:
I asked for quarterly updates. I was initially going to ask for monthly updates, but then I decided that it was actually better to have it update every three months as monthly updates could cause headaches for trying to remember what all the latest rules and values are. That said, if all the books were free on their digital app and were kept up to date within 12hrs of publicly released changes, then I suppose monthly could work.

It might cause some problems for tournaments before they figure out how to schedule around it, but it should only throw competent ones off for the first year or so as GW inevitably starts strong and slowly backtracks and pushes the updates later and later until it's back to yearly.

I asked for monthly but they need to improve their app to facilitate it.

I wish they would have let me explain WHY I more-or-less left 40K. But no, I got killed after the second question.

Waaaghbert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But 40k didn't significantly change from 8th to 9th! Many things that annoyed me in 8th still apply to 9th. It's just stupid behavior to ignore reasons why people quit

What annoyed you about 8th that still applies to 9th?

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

TheGoodGerman wrote:
Because I can read?

If I read a book on chess would I become an expert at chess or would I have to put that knowledge into practice?

No, but if you had a 20 year background in playing chess, then quit for one or two years, then read the updated chess rules you'd have a fair idea of how things would play out.

If Chess rules fundamentally changed that might be a good analogy.

How did the rules between 8th and 9th "fundamentally" change?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But the editions haven't changed much. 9th just added more bloat and organised strategems into categories. Post-PA 8th is basically the same as 9th. What made people quit in 8th is still the same reason they didn't pick up 9th.

Terrain rules, secondaries, modifier caps, and Crusade have changed the game quite a bit.

I just stated that they need a all-in-one app in the same way you have Warroom for WM/H, M3E app for Malifaux, Infinity has its onw etc.

All in one rules, scenario builder, list maker and game tracking in one app that gets updated every time there is a rules or points update.

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

Haha classic GW, finally give people a survey to make it at least seem like maybe they care, and then have it cut people off prematurely if they answer that they haven't played recently. They really can't help themselves from generating bad-will even when they are apparently attempting to do the opposite and trying to solicit peoples' feedback on how to improve.

I clicked that it had been two or more years since I played Warhammer. The next question was “Why so long?” There was no option choice for “because of the pandemic, Einstein.” Top notch survey there.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I asked for more Primaris lieutenants.

And I bet you couldn't think of a single thing that could be improved either.

I'll be sure to ask for more stratagems, smaller tables, and more killy power next time.

 Geifer wrote:
That was entertaining, choose your own adventure style. I died after the third question and the survey just stopped. Didn't know this was a rogue-like.

You got a third question?

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But 40k didn't significantly change from 8th to 9th! Many things that annoyed me in 8th still apply to 9th. It's just stupid behavior to ignore reasons why people quit

What annoyed you about 8th that still applies to 9th?

This is not the point. I'm not here to start that discussion with you or anyone, I was just pointing out that it's stupid to deny people a way to explain WHY they haven't played in 2+ years, what GW could've improved on a more "basic" level, that some people (I'm not alone here) dislike on the basic system that 8th and 9th share

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Well you're not an expert you see, so you shouldn't be allowed to have your say. Only those who regularly play the game and think everything is fine and nothing is broken can give their opinion of just how great and flawless it is.

I'll be honest friends I was pretty gosh darn negative, I literally just think its the first question where its like 'how recently have you played (i.e....are you a customer of our company)' that kicks you out.

Its a company.

Theyre trying to make money, like a company.

They dont want to change things for the opinions of people who are not making them any money, because it's intended to be a current consumer survey.

there doesnt appear to be any filtering out of negative opinions. I put in the MOST POSSIBLE negative opinions on every survey question, I just answered truthfully on the last time I played...last week.

Dudeface wrote:

 SergentSilver wrote:
I asked for quarterly updates. I was initially going to ask for monthly updates, but then I decided that it was actually better to have it update every three months as monthly updates could cause headaches for trying to remember what all the latest rules and values are. That said, if all the books were free on their digital app and were kept up to date within 12hrs of publicly released changes, then I suppose monthly could work.

It might cause some problems for tournaments before they figure out how to schedule around it, but it should only throw competent ones off for the first year or so as GW inevitably starts strong and slowly backtracks and pushes the updates later and later until it's back to yearly.

I asked for monthly but they need to improve their app to facilitate it.

They could just release a digital document. They already did it once this year.

Waaaghbert wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But 40k didn't significantly change from 8th to 9th! Many things that annoyed me in 8th still apply to 9th. It's just stupid behavior to ignore reasons why people quit

What annoyed you about 8th that still applies to 9th?

This is not the point. I'm not here to start that discussion with you or anyone, I was just pointing out that it's stupid to deny people a way to explain WHY they haven't played in 2+ years, what GW could've improved on a more "basic" level, that some people (I'm not alone here) dislike on the basic system that 8th and 9th share

I get that, but I'm a willing audience: what in 8th annoys you that is still present?

Voss wrote:


'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

THIS!

Rihgu wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

 Daedalus81 wrote:

TheGoodGerman wrote:
Because I can read?

If I read a book on chess would I become an expert at chess or would I have to put that knowledge into practice?

No, but if you had a 20 year background in playing chess, then quit for one or two years, then read the updated chess rules you'd have a fair idea of how things would play out.

If Chess rules fundamentally changed that might be a good analogy.

How did the rules between 8th and 9th "fundamentally" change?


Automatically Appended Next Post:

Rihgu wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

I don't think GW much cares why people didn't like 8th edition, because they're on 9th edition and probably working on 10th edition. If I started talking about the state of Warhammer 40k 5th edition I don't think they would be able to apply any of that feedback at all...

You're allowed to have an opinion! Nobody is saying you aren't! It's just probably not a useful one if it's about 8th edition.

But the editions haven't changed much. 9th just added more bloat and organised strategems into categories. Post-PA 8th is basically the same as 9th. What made people quit in 8th is still the same reason they didn't pick up 9th.

Terrain rules, secondaries, modifier caps, and Crusade have changed the game quite a bit.

None of those things are "fundamental".

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

Surely people salty enough wouldn't just lie about playing recently and still skew the survey results this way.
If anything, this would let GW filter out the truly toxic feedback easier.

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

I do love the way you characterize experience as 'needless salty whiners.' That certainly makes things open for discussion.

Well, I chucked my drop of water in the ocean.

Not having any option to mention COVID etc seems like a massive blind spot for such a survey. However, one of my last questions did ask about my living situation, so I at least one person in charge thought having kids might affect gaming time.

I got to complain about there being too many stratagems, the rules being too complicated (read - bloated) and have a go at them for the wargear restrictions in the open section.

I'm also +1 for quarterly balance updates. The current tournament results show how quickly the game can get stale, even with a steady supply of new codexs.

 Daedalus81 wrote:

 Gregor Samsa wrote:
Quite clear from the way these questions are worded that GW has zero intention of improving 40k.

Huh? There looked to be plenty of areas where you can voice displeasure.

Two questions. That’s all I got. The only way to get to the area where one can voice displeasure is to lie and kiss up for the first few questions, which renders honest feedback useless.

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

I do love the way you characterize experience as 'needless salty whiners.' That certainly makes things open for discussion.

About as open as taking feedback on something someone has never experienced eh?

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

The cut off is 2+ years, don't use hyperbole to make it seem like it's a bunch of grognards complaining.

I covered how it's good that a single Codex can make distinct armies that feel different from one another, how I think Crusade is a great idea, the problems with the coherency/horde rules, the morale rules, cover & line of sight rules, vehicle/monster durability - made specific mention of Rhinos being tougher than Carnifexes! - the general absurd lethality of the game, the endlessly layered rules, the overabundance of stratagems (especially those that are unit specific, and therefore should just be special rules for those units, and equipment strats, that should just be wargear), the asinine changes to weapon options based on specific kits, how the fortification rules don't function, how there are too many similar rules that do mostly the same thing and how standardisation, codification and scalability would go a long way to fixing that, how the FOC is pointless, how Guard need platoons and Officers should be in command squads and not separate, how the objectives in 9th are awfully boring and that as a result secondary objectives have become the primary focus, how Chapter Approved has collapsed into a sterile tournament book devoid of any of the creativity and fun it once had, how we shouldn't have to fething pay for points changes, and, finally, why it doesn't make sense for Rhinos to be tougher than Carnifexes.

I may have mentioned that last one more than once.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
I'll be sure to ask for more stratagems, smaller tables, and more killy power next time.

I just can't tell anymore if you're being serious or not. Maybe you could better explain if you posted an entire page of math for me to read.

 Sim-Life wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

The cut off is 2+ years, don't use hyperbole to make it seem like it's a bunch of grognards complaining.

What is a reasonable cut off? They want feedback based on the current edition of the game.

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

I do love the way you characterize experience as 'needless salty whiners.' That certainly makes things open for discussion.

About as open as taking feedback on something someone has never experienced eh?

Good gatekeeping. Well done.
You definitely don't want returning or new customers from other systems, or just new customers in general, no sirree.
Next year, I guess the cutoff will be anyone not subbed to the App, right? That good for you?

Dudeface wrote:

 Sim-Life wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Voss wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

Waaaghbert wrote:
What's up with this "if you haven't played in the last two years you not entitled to have an opinion" crowd going wild here?

You like 40k and have played in the last 2 years? cool, enjoy it give your feedback and continue. I tried 8th didn't enjoy it and would love to have the opportunity to say why. My opinion is not suddenly "worthless"

Let's reword the scope of the survey:

"Please provide feedback based on your games of 9th edition, to help shape improvements to the game and the next edition"

'Improvements to the game and next edition' aren't improved by shutting people's previous experience out.
Or even the things they'd like to see.

If you haven't played 9th, you have no real world experience of the current game to provide feedback with, it's really not unreasonable. I understand what you're saying but they likely didn't want to open it up to a horde of needless salty whiners who haven't bought or played anything in a decade.

The cut off is 2+ years, don't use hyperbole to make it seem like it's a bunch of grognards complaining.

What is a reasonable cut off? They want feedback based on the current edition of the game.

There shouldn't be a cut off. As has been mentioned, if someone selected an option that dated their last game to pre-9th, it should have gone to "what will bring you back", no "okay, feth off then".