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chaos0xomega wrote:


Reliable rumor dump indicates this is probably not the case. It says Eldar will receive a large but incomplete refresh of their model range in plastic. I would expect to see 1 or 2 infantry units (potentially one of the aspect warriors) not get new kits.

Rumor explicitly mention Warp spiders, Swooping Hawks, and their respective Phoenix Lords, the Avatar, Starstriders, and Rangers.

Anything else is wishful thinking i agree, but seeing the scope of Necrons, CSM, Sisters, Primaris remakes, it would make for a pretty tiny update in comparison.

Fingers crossed that they don't stop halfway, they just need to also redo Scorpions, Guardians and Dark Reapers to make it really satisfying.

mmm...

The 4chan rumors called out those specific ones. Those came out after the big rumor dump from Bolter & Chainsword.

B&C's called for a range refresh. There had been a second thread which specifically noted Rangers and Warp Spiders.

Eldar basically need everything that isn't Wraiths, Wraithlords, Windriders, Banshees, Jain Zar, Eldrad, Autrach, Farseer, Farseer on bike and Spiritseer.

So we need new:

Guardians
Rangers
Dire Avengers
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Striking Scorpions
Shining Spears
Avatar
Warlocks
Autrach on bike.
Warp Serpent / Fire Prism (dual kit probably)
Fuegan
Yriel
Maugan Ra
Illiac Nighspear
Asurmen
Karandras
Baharroth

20 separate units/models by my count.
I really don't understand how GW has managed to let the Eldar range get so insanely out of date. Its kinda insane the amount they need.

You missed off the Vyper

 dan2026 wrote:
Eldar basically need everything that isn't Wraiths, Wraithlords, Windriders, Banshees, Jain Zar, Eldrad, Autrach, Farseer, Farseer on bike and Spiritseer.

So we need new:

Guardians
Rangers
Dire Avengers
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Striking Scorpions
Shining Spears
Avatar
Warlocks
Autrach on bike.
Warp Serpent / Fire Prism (dual kit probably)
Fuegan
Yriel
Maugan Ra
Illiac Nighspear
Asurmen
Karandras
Baharroth

20 separate units/models by my count.

Nits- Wave Serpent and Fire prism are fine (beyond the pilot). Plus they're already sharing space with the Falcon and Nightspinner, respectively. (though technically the falcon is its own kit because of the different turret assembly).
But a redesign with a higher price point would, I think be a net loss. Those are great tanks.

Also yeah, vypers. Which is again fine but pilot/gunner, though as they're more exposed, its more of a problem.


Guardians and DA are OK. Given the urgency on basically everything else, it'd be a crime for them to take up release slots.
The biggest problem with Avengers is they deliberately shrank the kit from 10 models to 5...

I really don't understand how GW has managed to let the Eldar range get so insanely out of date. Its kinda insane the amount they need.

I think they had Plans. And probably the Ynnari factor in there. But something went bug-gak, or the person with the Plans left or fell into disfavor.
And apparently there was no backup plan for continuing on as the craftworlds and just replacing old kits with new plastic. Its baffling, but it really feels like a project gone wrong, even beyond the usual hiatus and screw ups for elf/eldar armies by GW. For some reason, they really don't know how to handle them, and a long hiatus isn't even that strange (Wood elves and dark eldar both got to miss a full decade each)

It doesn’t help that a lot of their design space was used to make unique marine models... and they lost them d weapons.

Well, I've shelved my beloved Eldar army during th 8th ed.
Hope for a new codex soon.
Rules update would suffice. Don't care about new models.

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up doing a Vs box but I'd much rather prefer stand alone product. I'm guessing we'll see a Kill Team warzone in the future with Rangers then later one we'll get a release with plastic Aspects. Ideally the new units roll out with new rules to drive sales, otherwise we get new sculpts with lacklustre infantry profiles. Tempting for those who already own Eldar but not so much for anyone considering starting the army.

Kill team set with rangers, launch box with some other jazz.

that seems to be the intention at least.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

As for what CSM need besides the stuff in the rumour dump: separate releases for all of the stuff currently stuck in the SC box, eg: Master of Possession, Greater Possessed, and Obliterators (preferably as a dual kit that makes Mutilators as well). Oh, and the spider thing too. No reason those should be stuck in that box only. A fully plastic Dreadclaw kit would be nice as well. Maybe then CSM players would stop asking for loyalist style drop pods, and just use our better ones.

Aren't they all mixed together on the same sprues? So they'd effectively need a redesign to separate them...

Ummm.....yeah? So they redesign them. The CSM kit isn't the ETB models from the same box either, because they redesigned them. They can do the same for those models.

They could also go the DG way and just release those ETB models for an insane price (see Mortarions Chosen), sometimes with half a marine on the sprue you wonder what to do with (see poxwalkers).

Siegfriedfr wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:


Reliable rumor dump indicates this is probably not the case. It says Eldar will receive a large but incomplete refresh of their model range in plastic. I would expect to see 1 or 2 infantry units (potentially one of the aspect warriors) not get new kits.

Rumor explicitly mention Warp spiders, Swooping Hawks, and their respective Phoenix Lords, the Avatar, Starstriders, and Rangers.

Anything else is wishful thinking i agree, but seeing the scope of Necrons, CSM, Sisters, Primaris remakes, it would make for a pretty tiny update in comparison.

Fingers crossed that they don't stop halfway, they just need to also redo Scorpions, Guardians and Dark Reapers to make it really satisfying.

As others noted, what youre referencing didnt come from the relisble rumor dunp, but rather another one that came out at the same time and has essentially been proven to be a load of bs.

 dan2026 wrote:
Eldar basically need everything that isn't Wraiths, Wraithlords, Windriders, Banshees, Jain Zar, Eldrad, Autrach, Farseer, Farseer on bike and Spiritseer.

So we need new:

Guardians
Rangers
Dire Avengers
Warp Spiders
Swooping Hawks
Dark Reapers
Fire Dragons
Striking Scorpions
Shining Spears
Avatar
Warlocks
Autrach on bike.
Warp Serpent / Fire Prism (dual kit probably)
Fuegan
Yriel
Maugan Ra
Illiac Nighspear
Asurmen
Karandras
Baharroth

20 separate units/models by my count.
I really don't understand how GW has managed to let the Eldar range get so insanely out of date. Its kinda insane the amount they need.

Honestly? Most likely bc Eldar is popular and players were still buying them. Why remake something that sells? A new kit isn't going to get players to buy it like a Marine kit is going to, so they most likely see it as a waste.

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
...I really don't understand how GW has managed to let the Eldar range get so insanely out of date. Its kinda insane the amount they need.

Honestly? Most likely bc Eldar is popular and players were still buying them. Why remake something that sells? A new kit isn't going to get players to buy it like a Marine kit is going to, so they most likely see it as a waste.

Alternate conspiracy theory: 6e and 7e Eldar were a social experiment into seeing if they could make people buy Finecast and really old plastics by making the rules horrendously OP, which proved a wild success. (This post is satire, I don't think this was a deliberate strategy.)

 AnomanderRake wrote:

 Amishprn86 wrote:

 dan2026 wrote:
...I really don't understand how GW has managed to let the Eldar range get so insanely out of date. Its kinda insane the amount they need.

Honestly? Most likely bc Eldar is popular and players were still buying them. Why remake something that sells? A new kit isn't going to get players to buy it like a Marine kit is going to, so they most likely see it as a waste.

Alternate conspiracy theory: 6e and 7e Eldar were a social experiment into seeing if they could make people buy Finecast and really old plastics by making the rules horrendously OP, which proved a wild success. (This post is satire, I don't think this was a deliberate strategy.)

What about nids, Orks, Necrons, and a couple other armies that had many Finecast too? and some still do lol.

I am guessing you don't know the history of it? Pewter at the time was really costly and master molds started to break, the tech was moving away from it, so they decided to use silicon molds out of metal master molds to keep them from breaking and not having those units for years until the remake them, and also to limit pewter use.

It was suppose to a a stop gab and they even said it was only temporary. I think GW did what GW does well and just stop caring after release.

 wuestenfux wrote:
Well, I've shelved my beloved Eldar army during th 8th ed.

I went through my limited Eldar army the other day. Turns out I own 4 Vypers and 5 War Walkers (including an original WW and a 2nd Ed WW). Shows how much I look at them!

Think we will see:
Warp Spiders plus Phoenix Lord (remember short blurb in PA)
Striking Scorpions (again another blurb in PA)
Rangers (with the device seen in rumour engine)
Avatar
Shining Spears

Not sure on others

I'm happy with the rumoured releases for CSM coming next year. Updated Possessed are something I've been wanting for a very long time, and the new mortal units will suit my Word Bearers nicely. I'll be able to build a very cool Daemonkin style army even if the rules end up being hot garbage.

In wishlisting territory, I'd like an updated Defiler to match the last decade or so of daemon engines. It's such an iconic unit for CSM and GW can do so much better than the old model. Make it happen, GW. A new Chaos Lord in PA would be nice too, possibly with a few Canoness style options (although we'll have Chosen for kitbashing soon, and that box may well build a Lord/Exalted Champion style character) as I'm not a fan of the tentacle cable hammer guy. I also really want an updated Terminator Lord but I know people would revolt if they got rid of the dual Sorcerer/Lord kit. Beyond that, the oft-cited Obliterator/Mutilator box would be a slam dunk. Multipart Venomcrawler would also be cool but I'd prefer an updated Defiler.

Re: Eldar, they need so many models that I don't know where to start. I'd like to see new Guardians as part of the first wave though.

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

As for what CSM need besides the stuff in the rumour dump: separate releases for all of the stuff currently stuck in the SC box, eg: Master of Possession, Greater Possessed, and Obliterators (preferably as a dual kit that makes Mutilators as well). Oh, and the spider thing too. No reason those should be stuck in that box only. A fully plastic Dreadclaw kit would be nice as well. Maybe then CSM players would stop asking for loyalist style drop pods, and just use our better ones.

Aren't they all mixed together on the same sprues? So they'd effectively need a redesign to separate them...

Ummm.....yeah? So they redesign them. The CSM kit isn't the ETB models from the same box either, because they redesigned them. They can do the same for those models.

They could also go the DG way and just release those ETB models for an insane price (see Mortarions Chosen), sometimes with half a marine on the sprue you wonder what to do with (see poxwalkers).

You don't know what to do with a marine that's already in pieces? Not a Night Lords player I take it.

Plastic Rangers seem like they'd come in a Kill-Team box ALA Kommandos.

 Esmer wrote:
Here's hoping that the new CSM codex will have enough non-CSM variety to allow a Lost and Damned list. Maybe even give an option to connect with an Astra Militarum detachment, the way GSC do.

Lost and Damned being cobbled together with CSM as per the leaks is definitely weird, especially when there seems to be a decent amount of said L&D stuff coming. All I can think of is GW looked at GSC sales (or lack thereof) and figured it'd be a safer bet to just expand the 'Mere Mortals' section of the Marine book, although the way people complain about Tzaangors with "It's THOUSAND SONS not Codex: Tzaangors!!!" I doubt it'll go over too well.

All I can think is the supposed cultist character will remove the "Only one non-CSM unit per CSM unit you take" rule.

The expansion of L&D stuff makes more sense when coupled with cutting World Eaters+Emperor's Children out.

 Kanluwen wrote:
The expansion of L&D stuff makes more sense when coupled with cutting World Eaters+Emperor's Children out.

I really do hope you're right...

The Newman wrote:

 elisha_wilson wrote:
[snip]
So what do primaris still need?
[/snip]

Taken on it's own, the Primaris range needs a fast melee unit with any sort of punch and mobility options for it's characters. In the larger context the Marine line needs trimmed down and I don't know how you'd do that, there's far to many things without direct analogs to easily fold either range into the other.

I believe all Primaris need are a drop pod, an aircraft and an indirect fire vehicle to be able to squat the firstborn and have everything the first born have. You could also argue that they need a missle and lascannon unit to have devastates replaced seeing as there is a plasma and melts unit.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Sgt. Cortez wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

Crispy78 wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:

As for what CSM need besides the stuff in the rumour dump: separate releases for all of the stuff currently stuck in the SC box, eg: Master of Possession, Greater Possessed, and Obliterators (preferably as a dual kit that makes Mutilators as well). Oh, and the spider thing too. No reason those should be stuck in that box only. A fully plastic Dreadclaw kit would be nice as well. Maybe then CSM players would stop asking for loyalist style drop pods, and just use our better ones.

Aren't they all mixed together on the same sprues? So they'd effectively need a redesign to separate them...

Ummm.....yeah? So they redesign them. The CSM kit isn't the ETB models from the same box either, because they redesigned them. They can do the same for those models.

They could also go the DG way and just release those ETB models for an insane price (see Mortarions Chosen), sometimes with half a marine on the sprue you wonder what to do with (see poxwalkers).

You don't know what to do with a marine that's already in pieces? Not a Night Lords player I take it.

You are... not wrong

 Kanluwen wrote:
The expansion of L&D stuff makes more sense when coupled with cutting World Eaters+Emperor's Children out.

Wouldn't that only be Kharn, Lucius and the Legion rules though? Berserkers and Noise Marines would presumably still remain the same way Plague Marines and Rubrics have.

I still doubt they'll cut either of them yet as it would be spilling the beans too early, plus I doubt we'll see Emperor's Children before the 11th edition CSM codex either.

It sounds like very little certainly, but when taken in the context of "freeing up design space" it can be quite a bit.


Worth mentioning that fairly reliable rumors have had World Eaters done for a few years, but "something" held them back. Wouldn't be shocked if the "something" was tied to Emperor's Children as a World Eaters book coming out would be a dead giveaway that they're planning on purging out the CSM book.

Also, since the codex is getting redone, who is to say that rubrics and plague marines will continue to be in it? They could cut out all four, in addition to the characters.

They could make up for this by having a blanket rule allowing allies from godsworn codices.

PenitentJake wrote:
Also, since the codex is getting redone, who is to say that rubrics and plague marines will continue to be in it? They could cut out all four, in addition to the characters.

Except many forces of Chaos that aren't the 4 mono-god Legions use Cult Troops. Removing them completely would be removing part of what makes Chaos Chaos.

Of course we said the same thing about Daemons, and they did that anyway...

 H.B.M.C. wrote:

PenitentJake wrote:
Also, since the codex is getting redone, who is to say that rubrics and plague marines will continue to be in it? They could cut out all four, in addition to the characters.

Except many forces of Chaos that aren't the 4 mono-god Legions use Cult Troops. Removing them completely would be removing part of what makes Chaos Chaos.

Of course we said the same thing about Daemons, and they did that anyway...

Yeah- I certainly yield to superior expertise and chaos experience here- I just think it would be easy to include rules for integrating chaos forces, rather than including data cards. For example, what if CSM is the one army that doesn't lose purity bonuses for mixing allied detachments in certain combinations. Like if your warlord has the appropriate mark, for example. It might apply to daemons of the god as well as cults.

Kind of a mixed bag; status quo means page duplication, but the changed version means that a mixed army needs more than one book. It might be justifiable though, cuz you'd get to include a detachment chosen from the allied dexes, rather than just daemonettes, princes or EC in slaanesh marked armies. I'd love this personally, cuz I'm a "many small armies" kind of player.

Not sure what the rest of the community would think though.

Sure as hell would make a lot of room in the CSM for new stuff though, eh?

Given the base Marine 'Dex has 386 datasheets, I doubt space is the issue.

PenitentJake wrote:
Yeah- I certainly yield to superior expertise and chaos experience here- I just think it would be easy to include rules for integrating chaos forces, rather than including data cards. For example, what if CSM is the one army that doesn't lose purity bonuses for mixing allied detachments in certain combinations. Like if your warlord has the appropriate mark, for example. It might apply to daemons of the god as well as cults.

I like that idea. It certainly would give a reason for Marks beyond more bloody strats.

PenitentJake wrote:
Kind of a mixed bag; status quo means page duplication...

I think it more means page obsolescence. Say the World Eater book came out tomorrow, and then the CSM book came out next week. The new CSM book has the new rules for Berzerkers, but not Noise Marines (as their new models aren't out yet, and no model/no rule). Then the EC book comes out, and the CSM book has an out of date Noise Marine entry forevermore.

I've said this before, and I know it sounds painful, but I'd rather have the CSM come out after the WE and EC books so that the CSM book isn't lagging behind and invalidated instantly due to the mono-god books.

It is painful... But I totally agree.