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Well those harlequin weapon stratagems are gak. We have to pay 4CP a turn just to get our weapons to do what they’re supposed to? I’d rather have just kept the original profiles.

wict01 wrote:
Well those harlequin weapon stratagems are gak. We have to pay 4CP a turn just to get our weapons to do what they’re supposed to? I’d rather have just kept the original profiles.

But the weapons never had these abilities. Also 2 of them are mutually exclusive on the same unit, and you may not be using the Caress against every unit.

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

So after giving 'quins all these distinct weapons in the plastic release, the just lumped them into one profile and handed out strats

 KidCthulhu wrote:

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

So after giving 'quins all these distinct weapons in the plastic release, the just lumped them into one profile and handed out strats

Actually that's not a bad idea really. Considering that the unit is designed to run with multiple weapons within it, that can be a pain when you have to deal with that every single turn of the game you use the weapons. High variety weapon profiles in a unit can be a problem because it complicates things. Shifting it to a single generic profile and then having a stratagem that pings off select ones at select moments is a neat idea. It makes those moments where you have to deal with the variation far fewer and speeds up the general flow of combat during the rest of the game.

It's the same reason GW gave the units in the Warcry battle parties for AoS the same weapon profile, with one or two having something as exotic as an extra attack or such. It meant you could have 10 models with basically 10 different weapons actually work in the game instead of bogging it down with 10 "slightly different" weapon profiles to contend with.

"Kiss, Caress, and Embrace Your Way to Victory"?

More like kiss all your distinct weapons goodbye.

I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.

So lets see if I got this correct. I roll my strands of fate dice at the start of the battle round for a combat patrol mission. I retain a 1 and a 2. Now during the battle round I can only use that 1 to get an unmodified 6 for an advance instead of rolling. The 2 can only be used for a charge roll instead of rolling? Then those retained dice are used up for the next battle round I roll new strands of fate dice?

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.

Exactly this. I also play black Templars and if it’s fine for sword brethren to swing 5 different weapons in close combat without having them differentiated by strats then it should be fine for everyone else too.

You can do it even worse with ork nobz lmao, complete mix of power klawz, sawz, choppas, big choppas, power stabbas, and kombi weapons. Even then though you just have to like, think about it beforehand for a second.

The basic harlequin melee weapon stats aren't too bad, but just wondering what led them to add the stratagems to fully use them?

Hooray for the voidweaver haywire cannon! Awkward rear cannon aside, its one of the reasons I was drawn to the faction and been looking for an excuse to get another. Just holding off incase they have a combat patrol boxset around the corner...

 l0k1 wrote:
So lets see if I got this correct. I roll my strands of fate dice at the start of the battle round for a combat patrol mission. I retain a 1 and a 2. Now during the battle round I can only use that 1 to get an unmodified 6 for an advance instead of rolling. The 2 can only be used for a charge roll instead of rolling? Then those retained dice are used up for the next battle round I roll new strands of fate dice?

Yes, that’s my understanding.

But don’t forget you roll 6 dice regardless of game size. And farseers will let you re-roll one of them. You then get to pick which ones you keep (depending on game size)

So if you rolled an even 1-6 spread, and you knew you needed to make a clutch charge with your banshees, you might pick the 1 and the 2. But if you wanted to ensure someone ate a brightlance to the face, you might pick the 4 and the 5 instead.

Obviously you are probably never going to get the even spread, so you take what dice think will help you the most from what’s available. If you roll nothing but 3’s, move up the psychers and unleash the smites.

And then next turn roll em all up and start over.

Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice

 l0k1 wrote:
Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice

I’d put money on it. Probably some warlord traits and relics as well.

The question is how good they are and if they are worth using, or if those resources would be better spent elsewhere.

wict01 wrote:

 Some_Call_Me_Tim wrote:
I just don’t get how it’s too much for people to keep track of to monitor what weapons they’re swinging. Harlequin squads aren’t too big and you don’t have too many of em, it’s really not a pain swinging different weapon profiles.

Exactly this. I also play black Templars and if it’s fine for sword brethren to swing 5 different weapons in close combat without having them differentiated by strats then it should be fine for everyone else too.

Nobody is giving their Sword Brethren one of each weapon though...

Regarding the new Harlequin weapons, is there any point in taking the Kiss over the Embrace?

 vipoid wrote:
Regarding the new Harlequin weapons, is there any point in taking the Kiss over the Embrace?

The fact that there's nothing stopping you from taking or doing both? and Kiss works whenever you fight instead of specifically when you charge/heroic intervention.

The Black Adder wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

Also two articles in one day.

Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.

Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.

According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.

 l0k1 wrote:
Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now.

Same as it ever was, then.

For me, the biggest turnoff for this entire army is how much of its identity/power is invested in this one single HQ choice.

 Hellebore wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

Also two articles in one day.

Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.

Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.

According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.

I think you still need to choose the weapon, so it's a matter of WYSIWYG. If you kill all your caresses first, you can't use the stratagem any more.

I think while nice, they are not required. More important as points go up.

In smaller games you only get to pick a few of the dice you roll. So unless you get a whole lot of bad ones, not a big deal. In larger games you use most of them, so ensuring they all have decent numbers on them.

But in large games a single die roll gets drowned out in the volume. Still good to have a sure thing in a pinch though.

New harlequin weapons are nice, bring back its unique abilities back in the game, I was quite upset when 8th edition hit and all the weapons are just different stat block.

The same stat line is an overall upgrade from old profile, fluffwise the weapons in their inactive form should be the same since it's basically just unarmed punching and kicking. But yeah having to spend CP to "activate" them kinda suck.

 Nevelon wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice

I’d put money on it. Probably some warlord traits and relics as well.

The question is how good they are and if they are worth using, or if those resources would be better spent elsewhere.

Unfortunately, farseers have been an auto take since I've started playing Eldar at beginning of 8th.
Its probably one of the most annoying aspects of the army.

They either are crucial MW dealing machines or a critical force multiplier.
Lots of Eldar players rejoiced at the emergence of Expert Crafters as an army trait because it meant we were no longer beholden to a farseer Doom + Guide to have reliable units which we were paying premium for because of said doom and guide. In the era of re-rolls doom + guide were an auto take every time.

 Hellebore wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

Also two articles in one day.

Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.

Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.

According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.

The Community article seems to have ambiguous wording. It seems to say that arming a model gives a model that particular keyword, but the strats say <weapon> unit as if the entire unit were armed with that weapon. So if you have a unit with mixed weapons, and the strat A Deadly Embrace is used, do you roll dice equal to the models in the unit or just the number that is actually armed with Embraces?

These Harlequin weapon names now that I think about it play up the creepy clown image more. What's next? Harlequin's Fondle?

"Guardsman, show me on the doll where the nasty clown touched you"

Iracundus wrote:

 Hellebore wrote:

The Black Adder wrote:

KillerAngel wrote:

Khahandran wrote:


https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

Also two articles in one day.

Can someone explain to me how these strats work? It reads like if I just take one of each weapon, the strat still works on the whole unit (as opposed to just the attacks of the model with the indicated weapon), but that doesn't seem right.

Yes that seems to be exactly how it works. It seems a bit odd to say the least.

According to leaks the unit has those key words automatically. You aren't buying anything. So it's just innate abilities the unit has.

The Community article seems to have ambiguous wording. It seems to say that arming a model gives a model that particular keyword, but the strats say <weapon> unit as if the entire unit were armed with that weapon. So if you have a unit with mixed weapons, and the strat A Deadly Embrace is used, do you roll dice equal to the models in the unit or just the number that is actually armed with Embraces?

These Harlequin weapon names now that I think about it play up the creepy clown image more. What's next? Harlequin's Fondle?

"Guardsman, show me on the doll where the nasty clown touched you"

You have to have an Embrace to use A Deadly Embrace, but every model in the unit "acts like" it has one for the phase the stratagem is used. If you only have Kisses, no A Deadly Embrace at all. If you have 11 Kisses and n Embrace and use A Deadly Embrace, you roll 12 dice.

Im not sure...

"Each variant gives the model that carries it a different keyword, which can be triggered with Stratagems to really unlock the devastating impact of these unconventional weapons."

The strategem rules state:

"Use this stratagem in the fight phase when a <insert key word> unit is selected to fight"

Yep I can see an FAQ is needed straight away..

Stratagems for weapons and now another layer if dice for the sake of dicing. Yikes…

 Argive wrote:
Im not sure...

"Each variant gives the model that carries it a different keyword, which can be triggered with Stratagems to really unlock the devastating impact of these unconventional weapons."

The strategem rules state:

"Use this stratagem in the fight phase when a <insert key word> unit is selected to fight"

Yep I can see an FAQ is needed straight away..

I think this falls under the heading of "check the actual wording on the datasheet" rather than trusting the WHC description of how it works.

It's a really weird combo of abstract and literal.

They should have jumped one way or the other.

ie, pure abstract,

"up to 3 attacks per troupe per round may use kiss, embrace or caress rules, regardless of what the models are equipped with'

So you just put aside those separate pools and don't have to worry until there are so few models in your unit you have to choose.


That or just treat them like every veteran marine unit in the game and allow them to create crazy weapon mixes....

 Argive wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:

 l0k1 wrote:
Thanks! Yeah looks like Farseers are almost a must now. I wonder if there will be strats to manipulate the fate dice

I’d put money on it. Probably some warlord traits and relics as well.

The question is how good they are and if they are worth using, or if those resources would be better spent elsewhere.

Unfortunately, farseers have been an auto take since I've started playing Eldar at beginning of 8th.
Its probably one of the most annoying aspects of the army.

They either are crucial MW dealing machines or a critical force multiplier.
Lots of Eldar players rejoiced at the emergence of Expert Crafters as an army trait because it meant we were no longer beholden to a farseer Doom + Guide to have reliable units which we were paying premium for because of said doom and guide. In the era of re-rolls doom + guide were an auto take every time.

I knew this was always the case but I was thinking that running a farseer and an Aurtarch for reroll 1s aura would be a nice balance but if each farseer get to mess with dice then running 2 would probably stay the go to option

Khahandran wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/02/04/kiss-caress-and-embrace-your-way-to-victory-with-reinvented-harlequin-weapons

Also two articles in one day.

What a disheartening precedent to set...

 Overread wrote:
Actually that's not a bad idea really.

Do you ever consider anything they do a bad idea?

 Overread wrote:
Considering that the unit is designed to run with multiple weapons within it, that can be a pain when you have to deal with that every single turn of the game you use the weapons. High variety weapon profiles in a unit can be a problem because it complicates things. Shifting it to a single generic profile and then having a stratagem that pings off select ones at select moments is a neat idea. It makes those moments where you have to deal with the variation far fewer and speeds up the general flow of combat during the rest of the game.

If these were 30 boy units of Orks, with the options of 6 potential weapon combos on each model, you might have a point. But this is Harlequins, of which you maybe have 20-30 in an army at most, and it's 3 different weapons.

Why is Jervisifying them a good idea?