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Yeah, honestly as a harlie player, this just... makes me lose interest. We already have the fewest possible datasheets, now we lose any real chance to diversify those as well. I like the effects of the weapons, but keeping that as strats? Making them all effectively the same thing? I really fail to see how that solution occurred given there was never any problem to begin with.

The consolidation makes me kind of excited to start buying harlequin models. I am, however, a Craftworld player so the consolidation of the weapons is appealing to me. I can see however why those who were collecting Harlequin models feel miffed.

Scale comparison of the new Aeldari Rangers. Quite a difference, but from a slight angle from above it's not that noticeable. Definitely not as out of place as Primaris next to regular Marines.

Full review here, including high-res sprue pics, datasheets, and assembly options:
https://taleofpainters.com/2022/02/review-eldritch-omens-aeldari-vs-chaos-space-marines-battlebox/

On the bright side, the Autarch's tactical rock looks trivially easy to remove

Daedalus81 wrote:Ah, yes. The Harlequin weapons. So distinct and useful that...

Spoiler:

...people...

Spoiler:

...really...

Spoiler:

...mixed...

Spoiler:

...them up!
Truly a great loss with the new base being better than all the other old versions.

Daedalus81 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
When I was joking about Marines having 18 different types of bolter, I thought I was just engaging in a bit of light Internet Hyperbole. There were probably around 12-ish in reality, right? Nope!
48.
Fourty eight.
And I left off the Combi-Plasma/Flamer/Melta/Grav entries. Those woudl take it to 52. And I wasn't even considering Relics.
Holy hell...

Sure, but you won't find 3 different types of bolter on a single unit. One and sometimes a special heavy version is about all we deal with.

Wait, you're saying this isn't a bad change because people didn't mix Embraces/Kisses/Caresses in the same unit (even if they did take units with differing options) and also saying that all the different types of bolt weapon existing isn't a problem because people don't/can't mix 3 different types of them in a single unit?
Sorry, I'm just really struggling to understand your point of view here. It's not like people were only taking one of the Harlequin weapons in their list over the others - they did in fact take them in different units.
If it's fine for 3 different Intercessor squads to have 3 different types of bolters, why is it not fine for Harlequins to have 3 different types of weapon (excluding the sword)?

Thanks for the review stahly.

I think the size difference is only noticeable if you have them side by side and looking really closely. Its a small discrepancy and in no way that will clash with the previous range. I think because of that they look slightly more slender which is a good thing too.

Looking at the assembly kit instructions theres like a couple options per ranger so this multipart kit will probably let you build 10 different rangers without any mods.
Waiting for it to be released on its own but the review did help me figure out the kits better. Cheers.

 stahly wrote:


Scale comparison of the new Aeldari Rangers. Quite a difference, but from a slight angle from above it's not that noticeable. Definitely not as out of place as Primaris next to regular Marines.

Full review here, including high-res sprue pics, datasheets, and assembly options:
https://taleofpainters.com/2022/02/review-eldritch-omens-aeldari-vs-chaos-space-marines-battlebox/

Thanks for the review.

Of note, the Deathspinner stats on the Autarch Datasheet are really good. Warp Spiders, pending points, are shaping up to be a solid choice (other than for getting ROD/RND).

Absolutely loving the helmets in that Chosen kit! Hope we get a Chaos Lord kit with the options offered by the Autarch/Canoness kits in the near future.

Looking at the Autarch datasheet it looks like it is not entirely free choice in wargear choices. For example, it only allows mandiblasters if you also take the full loadout of the old Autarch kit: Swooping Hawk wings, fusion pistol, and Banshee Blade.

Can't pair mandiblasters with a star glaive, to then use Strands of Fate to get 6 to wound triggering MW as well.

 Daedalus81 wrote:
Ah, yes. The Harlequin weapons. So distinct and useful that...

Spoiler:

...people...

Spoiler:

...really...

Spoiler:

...mixed...

Spoiler:

...them up!

Truly a great loss with the new base being better than all the other old versions.

I'm honestly not sure what point you think you're making here.

Harlequin weapons needed to be homogenised because it was too confusing to have different weapons in the same squad . . . even though your own data shows the opposite? What.

Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1

Boy, what thrilling creativity from these three weapons. These rules definitely read like someone trying to bring a strange and unique army to life, and definitely not a designer rushing to get it out of the way so that he can get back to working on the all-important Custom-Fed Interjector Lightning Bolter.

It astonishes me that Harlequin players were ever able to restrain themselves. I mean, who wouldn't want at least one of each of these unique and very, very different weapons in each of their squads?

 vipoid wrote:

Harlequin weapons needed to be homogenised because it was too confusing to have different weapons in the same squad . . . even though your own data shows the opposite? What.

Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1

Three tiny variations of a very similar melee weapon profile that can be mixed & matched within the same unit was definitely unnecessary rules bloat. I'm happy to see similar changes in my own armies, such as consolidating all the Killa Kan melee weapons rather than worrying about which combination of arms were glued on under a previous codex or edition.

Intercessors were a bad comparison to Harlequins, as they don't contain mixed weapons. There's also far more scope for differentiating ranged weapon profiles and therefore how the unit plays, compared to melee (range being the most obvious stat). A choice of weapon option on an Intercessor unit is the difference between sitting in backfield, midfield, or getting in close for peak effectiveness. All of these Harlequin weapons have the same tactical result - you want to charge.

However there are definitely similar improvements that could and should be made for marine weapons, in particular the Redemptor & Repulsor that can use 5-6 distinct weapon profiles in the same phase.

I ordered my eldrich omens

£100 good deal.
Curious how much I'm going to recoup on the chaos half

You don't think a better option would have been to further differentiate them so each one had greater purpose?

At least their profile suggests they’re not terrible weapons even without the CP spend?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
You don't think a better option would have been to further differentiate them so each one had greater purpose?

Yeah the strategems are all very similar anyway:

6s to hit inflict additional MW (which ignore invulnerable saves)
When charging Roll dice and On a 4+ the target takes a MW
Attack ignore invulnerable saves

The first one is the same rule as mandiblasters except against everything. The second one seems a bit pointless as you need to have charged first and it's only one chance per model.


They could have all had identical profiles with a different rule activating on a 6:

Kiss on a 6 to hit inflicts two hits
Embrace on a 6 to hit auto wounds
Caress on a 6 to hit ignores armour

 Mad Doc Grotsnik wrote:
At least their profile suggests they’re not terrible weapons even without the CP spend?

This part is at least true, especially for those novice players who may not make the best of weapon choices.

I do wonder though, if Harlequins are going to receive an increase in CPs to spend?

Iracundus wrote:
Looking at the Autarch datasheet it looks like it is not entirely free choice in wargear choices. For example, it only allows mandiblasters if you also take the full loadout of the old Autarch kit: Swooping Hawk wings, fusion pistol, and Banshee Blade.

Can't pair mandiblasters with a star glaive, to then use Strands of Fate to get 6 to wound triggering MW as well.

We can hope that this is just something from the box and the full codex will have free access.

But GW being GW it would not shock me if this sticks. Disappoint, and a little anger especially after WarCom promoted the compatibility, but not surprise.

It will save me from buying both kits though.

One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.

No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.

Has that been shared before?

Datesheet here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/02/review-eldritch-omens-aeldari-vs-chaos-space-marines-battlebox/

The autarch limitations are super annoying. The two kits seem perfectly compatible.

Potentially going to be different in the Codex is all I can suggest.

 vipoid wrote:

Also, I'm not sure I'd count 8th edition as a good metric for Harlequin weapons. Hell, I still remember a major complaint being that these really weird and esoteric harlequin weapons were all just represented with the most generic, boring statlines possible.
Harlequin's Kiss - a weapon that injects a coiled, monofilament spring into its victim, where it unwinds and liquifies their innards - S+1 AP-1 D1d3
Harlequin's Embrace - a weapon that projects a cloud of monofilament wire around the victim, before retracting it such that it carves them into pieces - S+1 AP-3 D1
Harlequin's Caress - a weapon that allows a Harlequin to phase their hand right through a victim's armour, bones and flesh and pluck out their still-beating heart - S+2 AP-2 D1

Boy, what thrilling creativity from these three weapons. These rules definitely read like someone trying to bring a strange and unique army to life, and definitely not a designer rushing to get it out of the way so that he can get back to working on the all-important Custom-Fed Interjector Lightning Bolter.

It astonishes me that Harlequin players were ever able to restrain themselves. I mean, who wouldn't want at least one of each of these unique and very, very different weapons in each of their squads?

This is not a good wiki reading on the weapon, the unique properties of the harlequin weapon is not the "stat", but their method of activation and application

The kiss have the special Kiss of Death attack, in 7E it is effective against most infantry and light vehicle, in 9E it is effective against everything.

The embrace only activate if the user is moving at high speed

The caress is similar to the kiss, but for more specialised target, in 7E it's effective against everything but overall less reliable than kiss, in 9E it's for target with Inv -save.

All of these weapon have the same stat in 7E, but it's still unique because of their unique trait, the same stat line represent the weapons while it's not active :Kiss/Caress recharging, and Embrace not activate if the user isn't charging.

The "unique stat" the weapons got in 8E is utter garbage, Embrace activate at all time and have better AP than caress? why is Kiss S and AP so bad? It made no sense. The only thing that make sense in those weapon profile is the Kiss D3 that somewhat simulate the Kiss of Death attack. I don't think the 9E rule is perfect but whoever wrote it attempt and has an understanding of these weapons than the nonsense that is 8E rule of the weapons.

 stahly wrote:
One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.

No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.

Has that been shared before?

Datesheet here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/02/review-eldritch-omens-aeldari-vs-chaos-space-marines-battlebox/

The Banshee mask doesn't specify that it reduces attacks down to a minimum of 1. Does that mean you can have a unit with 0 attacks?

Khahandran wrote:

 stahly wrote:
One thing I forgot to point out was that the new Autarch datasheet says you can EITHER draw from the options of the new kit OR take the other plastic Autarch model with its wings, mandiblasters, fusion pistol, and Banshee blade.

No mixing matching like say wings, Reaper Missile Launcher, and Banshee mask.

Has that been shared before?

Datesheet here: https://taleofpainters.com/2022/02/review-eldritch-omens-aeldari-vs-chaos-space-marines-battlebox/

The Banshee mask doesn't specify that it reduces attacks down to a minimum of 1. Does that mean you can have a unit with 0 attacks?

S, T, A, and Ld can never be modified below 1 per the core rules.

I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.

Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.

But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.

Because what the feth, GW????

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.

Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.

But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.

Because what the feth, GW????

Yeah, I got to that part and let out a deep sign.

On the other hand, even with this nonsense, it's still orders of magnitude better than the Archon.

"Hey everyone! We made sure the new Autarch was compatible with the old one!"



"Unless you actually want to use the models."

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
I really thought they were turning a corner. The options on the new Gravis Captain, the Primaris Ancient, and an Autarch kit filled with different weapon options plus, apparently, completely compatible with the current Autarch kit.

Fantastic. After years of mono-pose optionless nonsense a shift in design paradigm, a shift that just took a while to find us due to the lead time in miniature design plus the slowdowns of the past while.

But no. They've turned no corners, and we were all fools for holding onto that hope.

Because what the feth, GW????

There's some speculation on Discord that it's simply a limitation of the box's datasheet and won't be present in the Codex, and this isn't the first time this has happened either.

 Platuan4th wrote:
"Hey everyone! We made sure the new Autarch was compatible with the old one!"



"Unless you actually want to use the models."

Exactly, totally baffling that they'd mention that as a selling point in the article and then put out a datasheet like that. I never bought the wings version so this doesn't really affect me, but I'm pissed for those that it does, and just the general continuation of GW making unit equipment so painful to work out.

Also the harlequin changes are silly. Like they're trying to simplify it by going for one stat line, but then making it complicated again by adding the stratagems. I'd argue that harlequins are not a unit you want to simplify in this way anyway. They're murderclowns with some of the weirdest weapons in the galaxy, give their weapons a bit of thought and make them a little bit more complicated!

At least I love all the models that are coming...

On the Autarch its gotta be just the box set datasheet being limited and the codex one will allow more options right? I mean the Autarch on the cover of the new codex would be illegal if not? (Has wings, mandiblasters glaive and reaper launcher.....

Be freaking hilarious if that is not the case and the central figure on the cover is not a legal option ha...

If it was the case of only the datasheet in the box being limited, they surely wouldn't include the options from a different kit in there, now would they.

It seems very plausible that this is gonna be the Codex datasheet, for reasons incomprehensible to the human mind.