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 NAVARRO wrote:


A big appetite is a good thing specially if you have planets full of burgers.

To be honest the idea of Tau being grim dark is boring and not how I see them at all. I would love to see something along the lines of combined army like in Infinity. Loads of smaller unique alien squads/types under the Tau banner.

A coalition of allied species working together under Tau command is an interesting narrative element to bring to the lore. It lends contrast to the various already existing faction backgrounds as well as allows for rich diversity in miniatures.

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:


A big appetite is a good thing specially if you have planets full of burgers.

To be honest the idea of Tau being grim dark is boring and not how I see them at all. I would love to see something along the lines of combined army like in Infinity. Loads of smaller unique alien squads/types under the Tau banner.

A coalition of allied species working together under Tau command is an interesting narrative element to bring to the lore. It lends contrast to the various already existing faction backgrounds as well as allows for rich diversity in miniatures.

Nah, let's make nothing but Battlesuits and the occasional hero, they sell the best. Auxiliaries who? Balanced army what?

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Grumpy Gnome wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:


A big appetite is a good thing specially if you have planets full of burgers.

To be honest the idea of Tau being grim dark is boring and not how I see them at all. I would love to see something along the lines of combined army like in Infinity. Loads of smaller unique alien squads/types under the Tau banner.

A coalition of allied species working together under Tau command is an interesting narrative element to bring to the lore. It lends contrast to the various already existing faction backgrounds as well as allows for rich diversity in miniatures.

Nah, let's make nothing but Battlesuits and the occasional hero, they sell the best. Auxiliaries who? Balanced army what?

Well companies are driven by profit I suppose. I can not speak for what sells best, only what I am interested in.

Here‘s the thing. Sometimes I want to play a “bad guy” and sometimes I want to play a “good guy”. It was frustrating when Bethesda made it difficult to play a clear cut raider villain in the original Fallout 4 but they listened to customer feedback an improved the game. I find it just as limiting from a narrative point of view to have everyone in 40k be villains.

And GW has clearly said in black and white everyone is bad. Everyone. Their words not mine. Not open to interpretation. There are no goodies. Full stop. That is their artistic take on the gameworld they are creating… even if all the writers (and obviously from the comments here many players) do not seem to see it that way.

Even if GW doesn't tell you that everyone is bad, it is obvious for anyone who wants to see. Who are the good guys in the 41st Millennium?

A Xenophobic, hate-driven, monotheistic, oppressive Imperium of Man.

The dying remnants of a fading Eldar roaming the galaxy in their Craftworlds doing anything it takes to tip the scales of fate into their prolonged decline.

The expansionistic Tau Empire forcing all them come across to become client races under their benevolent system of strict caste rules by diplomacy or force while being overseen by a mysterious elite caste.

These are the good guys

Compared to "Kill everyone" (Necrons), "Eat everyone" (Tyranids), "Corrupt everyone, then let the sky gods eat them" (GSC), "Enslave, torture then kill everyone" (Dark Eldar), "Fight everyone and enslave the survivors" (Orks) and "Corrupt everyone in a variety of slaves, kill, main, burn" (Chaos) then... yes, I guess they're as close as you get.

At least racism appears to be less of an issue in the Imperium than it is today - speciesism is another matter entirely, of course.

Well, the -factions- are all bad. There's good people in many of them, though. Play the heroic general all you want!

I dont know, I just think that the all is bad and with a skull on top narrative/concept a bit too boring and limited.

I would think lots of imperial guard grunts are good fellas, victims of their leaders... So are tau and Kroot and maybe Ratlings, Ogryns...do vespids still exist?

The dislike for Tau being less morally black compared to other factions always seemed to come from that segment who wanted their ANGELS OF DEATH FOR THE EMPEROR to be perceived as the only 'righteous' figures.

 NAVARRO wrote:
do vespids still exist?

In theory - but given they don't allow the Gundam fetishists in the Design Studio to get off to the idea of them, they probably won't be a focus in the new 'dex.

 Dysartes wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
do vespids still exist?

In theory - but given they don't allow the Gundam fetishists in the Design Studio to get off to the idea of them, they probably won't be a focus in the new 'dex.

Maybe if people would have stopped buying Riptides while complaining about how broken they were, we'd have seen more auxiliaries?

Crazy thought!

All honesty though, I don't know how one would think that something called an Auxiliary would be a focus in the main army? It's like expecting an all-Ogryn or Ratling list for Guard.

The Tau Empire is a bit more explicitedly multiracial than the Imperium that has made anti-mutant and anti-xenos genocide its official state doctrine.

Personally, what I'd like to see would be an approach where certain units are sept-locked - there's a sept that's big on various kinds of auxiliaries, another one that's big on suits, another one that's big on Fire Caste infantry, another one that's big on flyers and so on. Kinda like Space Marine chapters. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves and the like have a couple of units exclusive to themselves but lose access to other units, that sort of thing.

 Esmer wrote:
The Tau Empire is a bit more explicitedly multiracial than the Imperium that has made anti-mutant and anti-xenos genocide its official state doctrine.

Personally, what I'd like to see would be an approach where certain units are sept-locked - there's a sept that's big on various kinds of auxiliaries, another one that's big on suits, another one that's big on Fire Caste infantry, another one that's big on flyers and so on. Kinda like Space Marine chapters. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves and the like have a couple of units exclusive to themselves but lose access to other units, that sort of thing.

T'au don't have nearly enough units to make that work, they'd need a good 10 or 20 more.

 Esmer wrote:
The Tau Empire is a bit more explicitedly multiracial than the Imperium that has made anti-mutant and anti-xenos genocide its official state doctrine.

Something that often seems to be forgotten is that the "Caste" system for the Tau isn't just a societal thing. It's closer to genetic abnormalities than anything else. The different Castes are so different that it seems to be impossible for genetic intermixing or the like to occur.

Personally, what I'd like to see would be an approach where certain units are sept-locked - there's a sept that's big on various kinds of auxiliaries, another one that's big on suits, another one that's big on Fire Caste infantry, another one that's big on flyers and so on. Kinda like Space Marine chapters. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves and the like have a couple of units exclusive to themselves but lose access to other units, that sort of thing.

There is only one "Sept" that does not have everything available to them and that is the Farsight Enclaves.

 Esmer wrote:
The Tau Empire is a bit more explicitedly multiracial than the Imperium that has made anti-mutant and anti-xenos genocide its official state doctrine.

Personally, what I'd like to see would be an approach where certain units are sept-locked - there's a sept that's big on various kinds of auxiliaries, another one that's big on suits, another one that's big on Fire Caste infantry, another one that's big on flyers and so on. Kinda like Space Marine chapters. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves and the like have a couple of units exclusive to themselves but lose access to other units, that sort of thing.

No thank you. Tau are meant to be combined arms, the last thing we need are rules encouraging spamming of certain units in certain septs rather than the septs using the tools that the Tau have in different ways. There is zero lore reason for technology to be limited by sept, as that is simply not how the Tau military operates. That just leads to nonsense like the ability for a battlesuit to JSJ being limited to a single relic only available to the T'au sept.

For the same reason, people please stop trying to plug the "gaps" in the army, such as close combat. Instead give us options to mitigate the weakness in other ways, such as mobility to avoid close combat and the ability to unleash close range firepower to clear enemies off objectives and then move onto the objective and be in a position for that unit to be supported by others to defend against the counterattack. GW already stripped the combined arms feel where smaller elements worked together to augment their individual capabilities rather than just making giant stompy robots like the Imperium when they brought in the Riptide and then the Stormsurge. Let's not lose more of the feel of the army.

Altima wrote:


They've never really suffered a significant loss. Sure, they've lost random planets here and there to splinter fleets or orks or dark eldar or Imperial shenanigans, but they've never really had that culturally shattering moment that all the other sapient factions have. They're not a dying race; they're not struggling to claw onto what they have left; they're not hiding in their own little pocket of the universe doing what they want because they couldn't survive in the greater community. No, they're expanding, spreading their ideals and their Greater Good and so on, and it's all so easy for them.

And I think that's what makes them clash with the setting. The way they're set up, they feel like they can't lose. Every codex, every lore update, they'll have more--more technology, more ships, more weapons, faster engines, more colonies, more spheres of expansions, more client races. In 40k, no race should get as big as the Tau have without their teeth having gotten kicked in at least a few times. They haven't, so it feels disingenuous that they get to pretend to be the happy, shiny good guys when they haven't been tested.

It's funny that you say this is why people think they clash with the setting, when I've always thought this is what made them fit perfectly into the setting. The Eldar had their time in the sun, then fell horriby, messing up the galaxy and creating Slanesh. Then humanity had it's turn, the Great Crusade set out upon the stars, it had it's setbacks, but much like current Tau expansion they never really suffered a significant loss. Then Horus fell and the galaxy got so messed up it devolved into its current state. Now it's the Tau's turn, slowly, inevitably conquering all those before them, until one day in the far future when it is their turn to fall in some horrible way we cannot even fathom.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 A Town Called Malus wrote:

 Esmer wrote:
The Tau Empire is a bit more explicitedly multiracial than the Imperium that has made anti-mutant and anti-xenos genocide its official state doctrine.

Personally, what I'd like to see would be an approach where certain units are sept-locked - there's a sept that's big on various kinds of auxiliaries, another one that's big on suits, another one that's big on Fire Caste infantry, another one that's big on flyers and so on. Kinda like Space Marine chapters. Dark Angels, Black Templars, Space Wolves and the like have a couple of units exclusive to themselves but lose access to other units, that sort of thing.

No thank you. Tau are meant to be combined arms, the last thing we need are rules encouraging spamming of certain units in certain septs rather than the septs using the tools that the Tau have in different ways. There is zero lore reason for technology to be limited by sept, as that is simply not how the Tau military operates. That just leads to nonsense like the ability for a battlesuit to JSJ being limited to a single relic only available to the T'au sept.

For the same reason, people please stop trying to plug the "gaps" in the army, such as close combat. Instead give us options to mitigate the weakness in other ways, such as mobility to avoid close combat and the ability to unleash close range firepower to clear enemies off objectives and then move onto the objective and be in a position for that unit to be supported by others to defend against the counterattack. GW already stripped the combined arms feel where smaller elements worked together to augment their individual capabilities rather than just making giant stompy robots like the Imperium when they brought in the Riptide and then the Stormsurge. Let's not lose more of the feel of the army.

Agree, everyone should have access to everything, but I do think that the Septs could lean more heavily into their theme by providing buffs or specials rules to specific unit types:

- Bork'an (Tech Experts): Snipers & Broadsides.
- Dal'Yth (Stealth/Ambush): Stealth-suits & Auxiliaries.
- Farsight Enclaves (Close Quarters): Breachers & Crisis Suits.
- Sa'Cea (City fighting): Buffs for ruins/buildings cover & Non LoS shooting?
- Tau (Precision and Coordination): Overwatch, Tanks, & Marker-lights.
- Vior'la (Rapid Assault): Transports & Piranhas.

They don't have to be locked to encourage play in a specific direction. The trick is making them all worth taking instead of just Farsight Enclaves are the best for 95% of the builds.

 Dysartes wrote:

 NAVARRO wrote:
do vespids still exist?

In theory - but given they don't allow the Gundam fetishists in the Design Studio to get off to the idea of them, they probably won't be a focus in the new 'dex.

I've wanted the Tau allies fleshed out a bit for a while. Human Auxillaries are a thing and are relatively active. Throwing a small upgrade sprue in with the Cadians to make a new Tau unit would be easy and awesome (kind of like Genestealer cults).

One thing I've wanted to see for a while now is Vespid females. They are supposed to be larger, tougher, and more rare than the males. Perhaps an Orgyn sized vespid character slinging two larger weapons could work.


Automatically Appended Next Post:

 Kanluwen wrote:

There is only one "Sept" that does not have everything available to them and that is the Farsight Enclaves.

Don't a lot of the 4th Sphere expansion Tau pretty much reject allies? They go so far as to brutalize them and intentionally use them for cannon fodder and pointless suicide missions while neglecting to give them support.

My reading was they did that whilst isolated, but they were forced to stop when they were reconnected. Although there’s hints of an underlying “alt-Tau” of 4th phasers, who get away with what they can.

 Jadenim wrote:
My reading was they did that whilst isolated, but they were forced to stop when they were reconnected. Although there’s hints of an underlying “alt-Tau” of 4th phasers, who get away with what they can.

And that difference within the Tau is an interesting narrative hook.

 Jadenim wrote:
My reading was they did that whilst isolated, but they were forced to stop when they were reconnected. Although there’s hints of an underlying “alt-Tau” of 4th phasers, who get away with what they can.

Were they not accompanied by any ethereals or did those become alt-Tau too after the warp incident? I guess I'll have to catch up on more recent lore.

Well, we can get back to talking tau rules again.

Battlesuits shooting into melee, a shoot and move options, better burst cannon stats, etc.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/punish-close-combat-forces-who-think-theyre-safe-with-codex-tau-empires-new-battlesuit-rules/

new tau article up on warhammer community
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2021/12/21/punish-close-combat-forces-who-think-theyre-safe-with-codex-tau-empires-new-battlesuit-rules/?utm_source=Facebook&utm_medium=Article&utm_campaign=codex+40k,+Dec+21&fbclid=IwAR1EHdOQJpLY8TcHDBeoLsiah_gsnTI8reilrplJLlpSsuHvchJoG8rK1RQ

Looks like tau battlesuits can fire in close combat



and they buffed flamer and burst cannon

I'm a suit fan, I won't apologize for it. It's why I started playing Tau and it'll be why I play them again if I ever do.

That said, we're good for suits. Everything niche they can comfortably fill has a decent plastic kit, and while it would be nice to have a new range of plastic vehicles that don't require a few dozen rubber bands to glue together right, they aren't the glaring hole that the army has right now.

I'm all for new plastic auxiliaries, completely redesigned kroot, completely redesigned vespid, gue'vessa conversion kits, maybe something completely new. Make them all different flavours of troops or component pieces in a multi-racial fire warrior squad that gives the faction some much needed board staying power.

And maybe have 'kroot/vespid/human pilot' be an artifact they can take.

Mont'Ka Flamers are gonna be a thing methinks.

I saved 3 suits from building until rules came out, let's see how I decide to equip them now.

Well, at least JSJ isn't sept locked or a relic but it being a stratagem rather than an innate ability of a battlesuit is stupid. It was a core ability for jetpack suits since their introduction.

But now I guess shooting in/into combat is the core ability of battlesuits whereas their previously core design mechanic is now a bonus you have to pay extra for.

Switch those abilities around.

No AP on the burst cannon is kind of disappointing.

Was nice to see a preview of the support systems. I think Target Lock could become quite popular if ATS changes.

 Dendarien wrote:
No AP on the burst cannon is kind of disappointing.

Was nice to see a preview of the support systems. I think Target Lock could become quite popular if ATS changes.

At least in Mont'ka you get a chance to increase the AP of the burst cannon

Though the new montka rule will give ap 1 for the start

 bullyboy wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
No AP on the burst cannon is kind of disappointing.

Was nice to see a preview of the support systems. I think Target Lock could become quite popular if ATS changes.

At least in Mont'ka you get a chance to increase the AP of the burst cannon

True - it'll be interesting to see all the rules together for Tau, but so far I think what we have is promising.

Very curious to see if the ATS sticks around in its current form, it kind of feels like an auto take being a simple additional point to AP.

 bullyboy wrote:

 Dendarien wrote:
No AP on the burst cannon is kind of disappointing.

Was nice to see a preview of the support systems. I think Target Lock could become quite popular if ATS changes.

At least in Mont'ka you get a chance to increase the AP of the burst cannon

Also one of the Support Systems adds AP. Burst Cannon probably wasn't given any to prevent -3 AP Burst Cannons in Mont'Ka.