Warhammer 40,000 - Feb balance update & FAQs on pg 24 - Drukhari nerf

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**NAVARRO**

So these are replacing the start collecting sets. Whats the price tag for these ones now?

**blood reaper**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
blood reaper wrote:
Haven't Tzaangors been in the lore for several editions now?

(Edit: it turns out they've been in the game since Rogue Trader. LOL at the person claiming they're a port from Age of Sigmar.)

It's literally an Age of Sigmar kit with an upgrade sprue tossed in.

As someone else has noted, the Tzaangor kit was released in 40k first. This is like saying Bloodletters are an Age of Sigmar Kit.

**bullyboy**

xttz wrote:
https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/01/11/the-order-of-the-bloody-rose-get-even-more-fanatical-and-ferocious-in-their-new-codex-supplement/

Bloody Rose get the Codex Supplement in the first Nachmund book

yep, it really was necessary to boost BR since they are not seeing much use on the table right now, right?

I'm actually glad that I chose Sacred Rose....no reason to buy a supplement for 1 or 2 pages of rules. Then again, I intend to use the Deathwatch one and just took images of the internet to use. Could do the same with this I suppose.

**Dysartes**

Gert wrote:
As for outnumbering, I don't think 2 more models qualifies, especially when the Custodes make more units than the SoS do out of the models available in said box. Your assertation that the CP box included a "legion" of SoS is just flat-out wrong and hyperbole.

I'm sorry - are you seriously trying to claim that 10 does not outnumber 8?

Never play one of the editions of 40k where outnumbering was a factor in CC resolution, and even having one more model than the opponent was a benefit... you'll not cope.

**zend**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
zend wrote:
Most TSons list only use a few MSU Rubrics, and people here are acting like they need them in every TSons box
This is the TSons box though. Wouldn't it make sense to include a set?

Not when the goal is to get you to spend more money. Most players will make do with 20 Rubrics, why include that in the combat patrol when they can get you to spend an additional $90+ on them

I thought prosecutors were still elite, but then I haven’t gotten my free copy of the new codex yet so I’m talking out of my pooper. If they are troop now, that’s a solid Combat Patrol box to people new to the faction.

**Wha-Mu-077**

Death Guard have 21 individual boxed units. Thousand Sons have 8, 3 of those are Tzaangors, and 2 of the remaining ones are named characters.

That's really the crux of the issue, tbh. Thousand Sons only get three actual Thousand Sons-y unit. No vehicles, no daemon engines, no dreadnoughts.

**tneva82**

Dysartes wrote:
Gert wrote:
As for outnumbering, I don't think 2 more models qualifies, especially when the Custodes make more units than the SoS do out of the models available in said box. Your assertation that the CP box included a "legion" of SoS is just flat-out wrong and hyperbole.

I'm sorry - are you seriously trying to claim that 10 does not outnumber 8?

Never play one of the editions of 40k where outnumbering was a factor in CC resolution, and even having one more model than the opponent was a benefit... you'll not cope.

How many points? Aka which side forms bigger % on currency most people use to play. Most don't play by model counts. Closest was aos1 to begin with by wounds.

**Jidmah**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Death Guard have 21 individual boxed units. Thousand Sons have 8, 3 of those are Tzaangors, and 2 of the remaining ones are named characters.

That's really the crux of the issue, tbh. Thousand Sons only get three actual Thousand Sons-y unit. No vehicles, no daemon engines, no dreadnoughts.

Death Guard have 18 unique units, 4 HQs, 2 troops, 2+5 elites, 2 FA, 1 HS, 1 LoW and 1 fortification
Thousand sons have 9: 3 HQs, 2 troops, 1 elite, 1 FA, 1HS, 1 LoW.

In terms of actual Bubonic Astartes, the between DG and TS is one terminator unit and the five elite characters that would have been a single command squad box in the past. The LoV and the LoC really differ no more than a sorcerer with and without disc.

A psychic dread, an automaton unit like they have in 30k and some elite characters would probably be enough to make them feel more like TS and less like "tzangors and their masters".

**CMLR**

John Prins wrote:
CMLR wrote:

The CP is a great purchase as it is, pretty much an insta buy for any new player, maybe even two, but I just don't want more Ethereals, more when I'm playing Enclaves.

Just use the Ethereal torso with some extra Fire Warrior legs/arms/head/backpack and you can make an extra Cadre Fireblade. Also note that the Cadre Fireblade fits the hoverboard quite well!

Ethereal torso is laughably thin still, the rest of the model looks quite bad with such a short torso.

**BorderCountess**

CMLR wrote:
John Prins wrote:
CMLR wrote:

The CP is a great purchase as it is, pretty much an insta buy for any new player, maybe even two, but I just don't want more Ethereals, more when I'm playing Enclaves.

Just use the Ethereal torso with some extra Fire Warrior legs/arms/head/backpack and you can make an extra Cadre Fireblade. Also note that the Cadre Fireblade fits the hoverboard quite well!

Ethereal torso is laughably thin still, the rest of the model looks quite bad with such a short torso.

Maybe I'm reading you wrong, but it looks like you're crapping all over the dude's conversion, which looks perfectly fine to me.

**GaroRobe**

Is that even the conversion he's talking about? I think its the second part; just the standard cadre fireblade but mounted on the etheral's drone

**BorderCountess**

GaroRobe wrote:
Is that even the conversion he's talking about? I think its the second part; just the standard cadre fireblade but mounted on the etheral's drone

If I'm wrong, then I apologize, and feel free to disregard.

**Blackie**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
zend wrote:
Most TSons list only use a few MSU Rubrics, and people here are acting like they need them in every TSons box
This is the TSons box though.

TS as a faction. All units included are TS

. If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

Jidmah wrote:

It's still a decent starting point for a new DG player, so I guess it does its job.

That's the point of those kits. They are meant to be a good deal for people who want to start or expand those armies. They don't need to be "legal" (except they are in fact at 500 points, including the DG one) or to include the most iconic units for those factions. Their goal is to encourage players starting or expanding those factions by providing a nice discount, that's it.

**Kid_Kyoto**

Geifer wrote:
English Words may suck sometimes, but it's a way better game than 40k. Because when the Word People occasionally release a new edition of their Book of Words, unlike GW's new editions the new Book of Words doesn't throw out half of the old words and replace them with a random combination of new, antiquated and foreign words just to sell new books. It's wild how a Book of Words released this year is like 99% in line with a Book of Words released twenty years ago, or forty years ago. It's a very inexpensive game to maintain compared to new, partially incompatible editions of 40k released every three years.

The Word People also don't release Book of Words supplements every half year to make you learn about all those new words people use that seem like English Words, but really aren't. Probably because Book of Words: English Words But Not! supplements would just be compilations of house rules, and we all know how deeply distrustful parts of the English Words player base are of house rules and how they insist that everyone only uses words straight out of the Book of Words. House rules like that are only ever made official in a new edition of the Book of Words after years of thorough playtesting. We could only wish for that kind of prudence from GW.

Although English is far more long lived than 40k, and generally a safe game to get into, it's not perfect. The Word People cannot dismiss practical considerations any more than GW's designers. Even in English, a number of words are eventually rotated out of the game and put in a legacy category, like Legends for 40k, that effectively sees them removed from the game. English is similar to 40k in that you are well advised to invest in a collection rather than a build, so as not to get too attached to any single game piece and sound like a grognard when you tell the youngsters that English used to be real gay back in your day, but these days it has lost much of its excitement.

Sorry to come into a 40k thread and talk about the virtues of a different game. If you like 40k despite its flaws, I can totally respect that. Have fun in whichever way you like. I just want to highlight that there are alternative games out there that are fun, inexpensive and don't leave you disenfranchised after coming back from a break of a couple of years. Doesn't have to be English Words either. There's a fair few fun games out there to choose from.

I just want to praise this very impressive bit of snark and sarcasm. And yes, English is basically the GW rules (or AD&D first edition) of language. Everything gets bespoke rules you have to memorize, yet the main rules are iron clad and can't be broken, except for the stuff that breaks them

Matt.Kingsley wrote:Also "bimonthly" means both twice a month or once every two months, depending on the context.

Somehow still less confusing than some of the rules GW writes

I'm like 90% sure bimonthly only means every 2 months, the complimentary word being biweekly.

But now I'm afraid to look.

Automatically Appended Next Post:
And I checked.

bi·month·ly
/ˌbīˈmənTHlē/
Learn to pronounce
adjective
done, produced, or occurring twice a month or every two months.
"a bimonthly newsletter"
adverb
twice a month or every two months.
"the magazine appears bimonthly"
noun
a periodical produced twice a month or every two months.

FFS.

Is English the only language where the same damn word is also its antonym?

**Wha-Mu-077**

Blackie wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
zend wrote:
Most TSons list only use a few MSU Rubrics, and people here are acting like they need them in every TSons box
This is the TSons box though.

TS as a faction. All units included are TS . If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.

I guess a Space Marine box without Space Marines or an Imperial Guard box without Imperial Guardsmen would be a-okay by these standards, then. Or a GSC box made entirely out of IG minis?

**alphaecho**

Confusing.

I was tasked to write a bi monthly report. I thought it was every two months until I was corrected.

The boss meant bi monthly as in fortnightly.

Things like these mean I don't dismiss out of hand anyone who tells me English is a hard language to learn.

**JWBS**

Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Spoiler:

Twice a month = bi-weekly

So what do we call a publication that appears twice a week huh? HUH?

**H.B.M.C.**

Blackie wrote:
TS as a faction. All units included are TS . If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.

I take it all back. You are being intentionally obtuse. You know damn well what we mean when we say that a Tzaangor isn't a Thousand Sons any more a Sister of Silence isn't an Adeptus Custodes.

**tneva82**

Which is irrelevant though as tzaangors have 100% valid reason to be in CP box.

CP contains models for TS. You need to be intentionally obtuse to claim tzaangors don't have place in CP.

**H.B.M.C.**

tneva82 wrote:
Which is irrelevant though as tzaangors have 100% valid reason to be in CP box.

CP contains models for TS. You need to be intentionally obtuse to claim tzaangors don't have place in CP.

*sigh*

If you're going to join in with a conversation halfway through, at least try to pretend you've read it up to that point.

No one is suggesting that Tzaangors don't have a place in a Combat Patrol. What's being suggested is that the amount of these non-standard units is the issue. There are more non-Adeptus Custodes in the Adeptus Custodes Combat Patrol than there are actual Adeptus Custodes. That doesn't mean you remove the Sisters of Silence, or that Sisters of Silence shouldn't be in that box - including them is perfectly fine - just that perhaps don't put more of them than actual frickin' Custodes. There are more zombies in the Death Guard one than Death Guard Marines. The Thousand Sons Combat Patrol has loads of Tzaangors, but no actual Thousand Sons Rubric Space Marines (the SC! box managed to include 10 of each).

If the Ork Combat Patrol had been a Warboss, 5 Nobz, a Deff Dreads and 40 Gretchin, I imagine people would have had a similar reaction to that even though, yes, Blackie, Gretchin are part of the Ork Codex.

Do you get it?

**Kid_Kyoto**

JWBS wrote:

So what do we call a publication that appears twice a week huh? HUH?

Twice weekly?

But then again I'm still irked by learning that 5/2 means Feb 5 to some of you instead of May 2. Which is why I now write everything as YYYY/MM/DD.

**Blackie**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Blackie wrote:
TS as a faction. All units included are TS . If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.
I take it all back. You are being intentionally obtuse. You know damn well what we mean when we say that a Tzaangor isn't a Thousand Sons any more a Sister of Silence isn't an Adeptus Custodes.

Of course I know, I just think it's BS because I don't see any problem with the composition of those boxes. Just people whining because it's the standard thing to do when it comes to discuss GW stuff. It's the same that claiming that gretchins aren't orks, in fact they don't even get klan bonuses. Except, they are

. And no one (I hope) would argue that they don't belong to an ork box.

Units are equally legit in a codex, there's no units A and units B just because A are supposed to be more iconic. Tzeentch related stuff are 100% thousand sons units, in fact they do have the THOUSAND SONS keyword, right?

**Wha-Mu-077**

Blackie wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Blackie wrote:
TS as a faction. All units included are TS . If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.
I take it all back. You are being intentionally obtuse. You know damn well what we mean when we say that a Tzaangor isn't a Thousand Sons any more a Sister of Silence isn't an Adeptus Custodes.

Of course I know, I just think it's BS because I don't see any problem with the composition of those boxes. Just people whining because it's the standard thing to do when it comes to discuss GW stuff. It's the same that claiming that gretchins aren't orks, in fact they don't even get klan bonuses. Except, they are . And no one (I hope) would argue that they don't belong to an ork box.

Units are equally legit in a codex, there's no units A and units B just because A are supposed to be more iconic. Tzeentch related stuff are 100% thousand sons units, in fact they do have the THOUSAND SONS keyword, right?

Dude, stop trolling, because it's not funny and you're not contributing anything.

**Blackie**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

If the Ork Combat Patrol had been a Warboss, 5 Nobz, a Deff Dreads and 40 Gretchin, I imagine people would have had a similar reaction to that even though, yes, Blackie, Gretchin are part of the Ork Codex.

Do you get it?

None of the released boxes has this ratio though. With 20+ Sisters or 40+ tzaangors you may be right, but not because those units don't belong, because they're too spammy. If the ork patrol had a warboss, 5 nobz, a dread and 20 gretchins it would be 100% ok.

10 sisters and 20 tzaangors aren't spam, it's just two kits of those. 40 gretchins (4 kits) could be spam.

Are 20 tzaangors useful for an average TS collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.
Are 10 sisters useful for an average Custodes collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.
Are 30 pox walkers useful for an average Deathguard collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.

Seriously, nothing else matters.

**DreadfullyHopeful**

Wha-Mu-077 wrote:
Blackie wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:
Blackie wrote:
TS as a faction. All units included are TS . If those sisters are part of the custodes codex then they are Custodes as well. Just like gretchins are Orks.
I take it all back. You are being intentionally obtuse. You know damn well what we mean when we say that a Tzaangor isn't a Thousand Sons any more a Sister of Silence isn't an Adeptus Custodes.

Of course I know, I just think it's BS because I don't see any problem with the composition of those boxes. Just people whining because it's the standard thing to do when it comes to discuss GW stuff. It's the same that claiming that gretchins aren't orks, in fact they don't even get klan bonuses. Except, they are . And no one (I hope) would argue that they don't belong to an ork box.

Units are equally legit in a codex, there's no units A and units B just because A are supposed to be more iconic. Tzeentch related stuff are 100% thousand sons units, in fact they do have the THOUSAND SONS keyword, right?

Dude, stop trolling, because it's not funny and you're not contributing anything.

I can't help but agree. Even if you disagree, there are less obnoxious ways to make it known.

**alphaecho**

JWBS wrote:
Kid_Kyoto wrote:

Spoiler:

Twice a month = bi-weekly

So what do we call a publication that appears twice a week huh? HUH?

Bi weekly....

which can also mean fortnightly...

And my head's exploded.

**tneva82**

H.B.M.C. wrote:

If the Ork Combat Patrol had been a Warboss, 5 Nobz, a Deff Dreads and 40 Gretchin, I imagine people would have had a similar reaction to that even though, yes, Blackie, Gretchin are part of the Ork Codex.

Do you get it?

Issue wouldn't be model count etc. You have more points and money on orks. Only issue would be whether gretchin would be good in game.

But you are just being intentionally obstinate and trolling just for sake of trolling. Out here to cause a flamewar.

**H.B.M.C.**

tneva82 wrote:
Issue wouldn't be model count etc. You have more points and money on orks. Only issue would be whether gretchin would be good in game.

Like I said: If you're going to join halfway through a conversation, you need to understand what the conversation is about. Blackie, despite his disingenuous manner, understands what we're talking about, he's just chosen the most obnoxious way to engage with us (or not engage with us, I suppose one could argue). You on the other hand don't seem to actually grasp the crux of the argument.

That's not be being "obstinate", or "trolling" or trying to cause a "flamewar" - three words which you have woefully misused, so FFS, give that a damned rest already or just leave the thread - it's a simple metric at looking at a number of the Combat Patrols and seeing that some of them contain very little of what people consider the core of the army. The Deathguard box has very little Deathguard in it. The Custodes box has more Sisters of Silence than actual Custodians. If the Tau box had 20 Kroot in there rather than the Firewarriors and the Fireblade, the same would apply.

You must understand the purpose of this discussion by now.

**Oguhmek**

So bi-fortnightly would then either be every week or every month?

Wow, English.

**xttz**

Blackie wrote:

Are 20 tzaangors useful for an average TS collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.
Are 10 sisters useful for an average Custodes collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.
Are 30 pox walkers useful for an average Deathguard collection? Does their patrol box allow for a legit 500 points army? If both answers are "Yes" then the box is good.

Seriously, nothing else matters.

Yep:

The Combat Patrol kits are an entire army in a box. As the name implies, each one contains a complete Combat Patrol-sized force of 25 Power or 500 points. That makes them perfect for getting started with the smaller-sized games of Warhammer 40,000

H.B.M.C.'s criteria can be satisfied by removing 5 sisters from the new Custodes box and it would still be close to doubling that PL/points target above. Of course it would be a worse deal for customers

DreadfullyHopeful wrote:
Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dude, stop trolling, because it's not funny and you're not contributing anything.

I can't help but agree. Even if you disagree, there are less obnoxious ways to make it known.

The drawback to the ignore list is missing incredible moments like this. Entire civilisations could be powered by the levels of irony generated from Wha-Mu accusing someone else of "not contributing anything" to a thread.

tneva82 wrote:
H.B.M.C. wrote:

If the Ork Combat Patrol had been a Warboss, 5 Nobz, a Deff Dreads and 40 Gretchin, I imagine people would have had a similar reaction to that even though, yes, Blackie, Gretchin are part of the Ork Codex.

Do you get it?

Issue wouldn't be model count etc. You have more points and money on orks. Only issue would be whether gretchin would be good in game.

But you are just being intentionally obstinate and trolling just for sake of trolling. Out here to cause a flamewar.

Yeah this is a giveaway it's just concern trolling, or at best nit-picking for the sake of it. I can think of at least three editions where things like grots / cultists / poxwalkers outnumbered the 'main' units for their faction in the starter set. Boxed sets with chaff infantry have been a thing for decades but now all of a sudden it's an issue?