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 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Nothing to be done about it at this point though. If people keep insisting its a problem going on a decade when PP last acknowledged its existence.... I mean I guess we can wait for it to die out of living memory but I swear people are determined to teach that grudge to their children, and their children's children. We're all embarrassed by things said during the Daikatana era of marketing, but the unwillingness to accept that its just not a thing anymore after its been pointed out multiple times is just kind of looking for an axe to grind.

Acceptance is not trying to run away from the matter by labeling anyone who mentions it as having an axe to grind.

Agreed. That being said, every so often I will see the progressively inclined sections of the warhammer twitterverse dig up page 5 and rekindle discussion about it, often as a means to disparage the games current playerbase and dev team, etc. as though it is still a current element of the game or the community. I have been playing WMHDs since Mk1, and online discussions are basically the only time I ever hear or think about page 5, and I imagine thats probably true of most of the community considering how rarely page 5 ever actually gets brought up by WMHDs players (the only time it seems to get mentioned in the online discussion groups/subreddits, etc. is when a newbie discovers it for the first time). While healthy, mature, and sober discussions about how problematic P5 was should be encouraged, I strongly disagree that it should be used as a mode of attack on the game and its community as it exists today - there are plenty of negative things that could be said about it, but using Page 5 for that purpose is dishonest.

"Twitterverse".

See that is something people have to just quit feeding. Starve the beasts and they slink away on their own, the foul things! I'm not sure what is worse, the abhuman helot rules lawyer or Twitter.

Anyway I didn't mean to smash a hole in the boat by bringing up page 5. It was just one of those things I remember, and ultimately not too important. I had no idea WMH had even stayed alive so I was really just adding my grumpy old man opinion to the mix. I never really looked back into the game after that and as someone else pointed out, that was a long time ago. I do recall being interested in Kryx, Cryx (?) though. They seemed like they had a unique gimmick but I can't recall what it was. I thought they had cool models too. Very dark, almost a little... grim... dark...

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Nothing to be done about it at this point though. If people keep insisting its a problem going on a decade when PP last acknowledged its existence.... I mean I guess we can wait for it to die out of living memory but I swear people are determined to teach that grudge to their children, and their children's children. We're all embarrassed by things said during the Daikatana era of marketing, but the unwillingness to accept that its just not a thing anymore after its been pointed out multiple times is just kind of looking for an axe to grind.

Acceptance is not trying to run away from the matter by labeling anyone who mentions it as having an axe to grind.

No one is running. The matter has been addressed. When it was brought up it was mentioned that it was addressed. The past cannot be undone. I'm not sure what more can be done to atone for this apparently grievous sin, but if people are never willing to forgive it.... what can you do?

 LunarSol wrote:

 NinthMusketeer wrote:

 LunarSol wrote:
Nothing to be done about it at this point though. If people keep insisting its a problem going on a decade when PP last acknowledged its existence.... I mean I guess we can wait for it to die out of living memory but I swear people are determined to teach that grudge to their children, and their children's children. We're all embarrassed by things said during the Daikatana era of marketing, but the unwillingness to accept that its just not a thing anymore after its been pointed out multiple times is just kind of looking for an axe to grind.

Acceptance is not trying to run away from the matter by labeling anyone who mentions it as having an axe to grind.

No one is running. The matter has been addressed. When it was brought up it was mentioned that it was addressed. The past cannot be undone. I'm not sure what more can be done to atone for this apparently grievous sin, but if people are never willing to forgive it.... what can you do?

No one else mentioned never forgiving or never moving on. But the way you talk about it makes it seem like it is you who hasn't moved on.

I guess I don't follow, but I feel like we're talking past each other. I get why it comes up, but that's exactly why it was taken out of the printed material nearly a decade ago after softening it proved insufficient. If removing it entirely isn't enough for someone and we still need to hash it out, I guess I consider that an axe grinding. I'd be happy to leave it dead and buried. I'm not the one digging it back up.

 Hairesy wrote:
"Twitterverse".

See that is something people have to just quit feeding. Starve the beasts and they slink away on their own, the foul things! I'm not sure what is worse, the abhuman helot rules lawyer or Twitter.

Anyway I didn't mean to smash a hole in the boat by bringing up page 5. It was just one of those things I remember, and ultimately not too important. I had no idea WMH had even stayed alive so I was really just adding my grumpy old man opinion to the mix. I never really looked back into the game after that and as someone else pointed out, that was a long time ago. I do recall being interested in Kryx, Cryx (?) though. They seemed like they had a unique gimmick but I can't recall what it was. I thought they had cool models too. Very dark, almost a little... grim... dark...

It was cyber undead. And then regular undead. And trolls. And pirates. And pirate zombies. And spiderjacks. And just plain folks. And barbarians. And ghost pirates. And devil women. And ogres. And mind-slavers who are their own faction now, but weren't then. And that one dead elf, because really, why not? [Not in this order]

One of warmachines biggest problems was that their 'unique gimmicks' got swamped under and faction identity died under the waves of releases.

Voss wrote:
One of warmachines biggest problems was that their 'unique gimmicks' got swamped under and faction identity died under the waves of releases.

Quoted for truth.

Warmachine and Hordes feels like it has ended up a game where the only difference between the factions is official colour palate. This dilution of themes started quite early in Warmachine as well, around the book after Apotheosis, Supremacy I think?

Really wish they'd have just stuck with the faction options as they were in Prime/Primal and expanded the rest of factions in the setting like they did with Hordes. Same core mechanics, different character resource. Anyway that ship has long since sailed, at least I got to enjoy Warmachine/Hordes while it was new & fresh.

I disagree somewhat. I liked the fact that most pp factions had a variety of aesthetics (eg retribution with their houseguard, dawnguard and mage hunters and more recently house shyel and elowyr showing different looks) and themes going on rather than everything being the same power armour models with a slightly different bolter. Cryx was always on the extreme end of it but it wasn't necessarily a bad thing imo.

That said, captain hindsight would have a different pov on some things. Kossites, idrians etc should have been 'irregular infantry' and them, along with manhunters should have been available as the infantry to the circle, rather than the plate armoures Wolves. Men o war should have always been the only human multi.wound heavy infantry etc.things like that...

Fully agree it got to the point where they were just recycling ideas (while I love the models- trencher long gunners. I mean, winter guard pikemen? Iron fang kommandos?)

The Riot Quest Boardgame Kickstarter seems to be floundering from early on.

grahamdbailey wrote:
The Riot Quest Boardgame Kickstarter seems to be floundering from early on.

We shall see but quite simply i think everyone from the WM/H playerbase who either wanted game itself or the the models has already got it from the other KS or through normal distro. What we are probably seeing here is "who else other than the existing player base is interested".

It will be the great test of "Does this game have legs to stand on by itself or was it just Hungerford's baby that he propped up by making the models useable in WMH".

I am actually considering backing it because it is the least expensive way to get a bunch of RQ models I have, so far, just borrowed from other players.

Its been up a full day and is only 20% funded... Unless they change something, I can all but guarantee that it won't reach its funding goal.

I mean.... even if you wanted Riot Quest.... I don't know anyone that's excited about 4 copies of Riot Quest. I get the plan is to roll out 4 of every model via stretch goals but "parity" is not really the point of game like this. If anything you want everyone to draft so that its all unique characters.

But yeah.... Hungerford's baby that no one really wanted but we all humored for the Warmachine content. It's a better game than you'd assume and provides some dumb fun, but its got some pretty glaring issues that just aren't going to improve.

Yea, the 4 of each model was a negative when I checked it out on launch.
I know they've talked about there being Seasons of riot quest, so why not just do the season 1 models for the boardgame instead

The problem for boardgamers and such aren't necessarily the 4 figures of each type. There are kickstarters that have pulled that effectively. It is perhaps, that Riot Quest was never anything but a tick on Warmachine and Hordes? I mean, Hungerford ensured that each expansion until this one had some sort of OP nonsense in it that also made WMH a more messy game. So as a trial balloon for how independent RQ is? I think this is a pretty clear indication of what the answer is.

I can't say I was ever even slightly intrigued by riotquest.

Deathchev was about the only interesting idea I saw.

i was never interested in anything else they did other than WM/H and monpoc. i still enjoy both games regularly.

They could probably generate more interest with some sort of animated trailer!

To be honest if I wanted to buy a skirmish style boardgame I could write a relatively long list of games I'd buy before overpriced and reportedly silly RQ : the Edge: Downfall, Godtear, Mythic Battles Pantheon, Judgement, Super Fantasy Brawl, Skytear ...

While not strictly Warmachine/Hordes, looks like they cancelled the Riot Quest Kickstarter. Guess it wasn't getting the traction they needed.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
They could probably generate more interest with some sort of animated trailer!

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiot Quuuueeeeeeeeeest

Kind of interesting that it seems that a post was never even made in News & Rumours for the new kickstarter? If the fans don't even have the energy to get excited about it who else will?

Part of the problem is just that the fans already own everything on offer.

The RQ Kickstarter could have done much better if presented as a two player skirmish, as it was intended, with two unique teams.
Then as per the MonPoc KS, package up the individual models into two player expansions, and have the 4P game as another expansion.

From how it appears, PP really has no clue how to market their product to anyone who isn’t already a fan.

They should just hand it off to Mythic. They might always be late but at least they know how to market a KS to look appealing.

And that was the problem - this KS was not at all appealing and had zero value for old fans, nor the ability to pull in anyone new.

At least from what we've seen from the MonPoc campaign, Mythic is more or less in control of packaging and contents. I suspect the 4x thing was their call to begin with.

And I have just learned that here in Poland the Polish version of the Skytear starter box is going to be sold for the equivalent of less than 25$.

BGG ratings 8.2 and 7.5 for Skytear and RQ respectively.

So, yeah...

BGG isn't a great place to go for anything miniatures focused and definitely not for anything with metal minis. That's not to say I don't find that rating extremely generous....

It's not a fair comparison. Skytear is a boardgame, while Riot Quest is a minis game, so naturally Skytear has a much bigger fanbase on bgg. Plus, the games are quite different: Skytear is a MOBA style geared toward the more competitive crowd, while RQ is very casual oriented. And the miniatures's quality is way better for RQ.
I bought RQ since I think is the best light skirmish game around - cool minis, fun, hilarious, colorful. The fact that I can use the minis in Warmachine is a bonus.

New Primecast: https://home.privateerpress.com/2022/07/05/primecast-july-5-2022/

A dude on FB transcribed some of the WMH relevant stuff:

"Matt Wilson: When? Well, the reason for the gap in releases is that we're doing a lot of R&D into the future of how Warmachine gets produced. We've had a lot of effort focused on Warmachine over the past year. But I think there's a misconception that gets propagated out in the community that a lack of releases or information means we are not concentrating any effort on Warmachine. Now, as you know, that could not be further from the truth. The reality is if we're quiet on something we're probably working harder on it than ever. Uh, beyond just developing new content for Warmachine we're working on a number of new challenges.
Emmanuel: So what are some of the hurdles we've been facing?
Matt Wilson: So a huge one is that producing miniatures in metal has become almost impossible because of the rising cost of materials. At one point, uh, we thought we might be headed back to plastics, but the current supply chain issues and our current experience with overseas manufacturing has compelled us to reevaluate that strategy. Plastic is very hard to keep stocked because of the order quantities associated with its production. As we see all the time, we're feeling that now with several model kits that are currently out of stock. The problem is that when an initial run of plastic sells out, in order to restock it, you have to order a ton more. But when we know we're only going to sell a fraction of that minimum order quantity, we're staring down a loss in order to reorder them. So, this makes plastic an undesireable option for the future and we're looking at other means.
Emmanuel: Interesting. Are we doing anything to combat this issue?
Matt Wilson: Yes! We've been doing a ton of experimentation and research into different production methods we can handle internally so we're not hampered by supply chain issues like that in the future.
...
Matt Wilson: Are we Kickstarting Orgoth? No. Several months ago we thought that might be the route because we were still looking at the possibility of producing them in plastic. But with our concerns about keeping things in stock, we've ruled that out as an option. Plus we want to see them on the tabletop sooner rather than later and plastics have a very long production cycle, so we're looking at a more traditional release for them...Hopefully with a prerelease at a big event in the very near future.
...
Matt Wilson: GenCon, yes, so that's what we're aiming for. But it depends on how we determine the best methods of production for them both on quality and on maintaining a reasonable price for them. If everything goes well, we'll see Orgoth on the table before the end of summer and may even see some of the other things we've been working on following quickly behind. We've got several Storm Legion models in the queue as well as a couple of Khador models like Captain Boris (unintelligible)."

Thanks for the recap! Matt's been pretty open about production woes over the last few years. It's certainly interesting to watch. Siocast feels like a natural fit, but I'm sure they're not excited about proprietary tech.