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I think the thing that is making Emperor's Chosen shine for me is the fact that they can use other Shield Host's abilities for a turn for CP. Need to slow down a unit in melee, now they're shadow keepers and you're -1 attack against them. Or they reroll to wound a character.

Need to fall back, shoot something with the rest of your army and charge back in with your terminators? Well, good thing that squad is currently Solar Watch for CP.

That flexibility is rapidly growing on me the more I think about it.

 iGuy91 wrote:
I think the thing that is making Emperor's Chosen shine for me is the fact that they can use other Shield Host's abilities for a turn for CP. Need to slow down a unit in melee, now they're shadow keepers and you're -1 attack against them. Or they reroll to wound a character.

Need to fall back, shoot something with the rest of your army and charge back in with your terminators? Well, good thing that squad is currently Solar Watch for CP.

That flexibility is rapidly growing on me the more I think about it.

The Emperor's Chosen specific stratagem might actually be my favourite new stratagem (well aside from Earning of a Name, cause that gak is badass). The flexibility and options it provides is truly amazing. Why can't we just pick a shield host for every unit seperately? Imagine that

Tiberias wrote:
Why can't we just pick a shield host for every unit seperately? Imagine that

That'll be the supplement AoR.

The new Eldar Fire Dragons are leaked, and they are packing d6+4, which is INSANE. 5-10 models, 23 points each. They have a 12" A1 S9 AP4 d6+2. For an extra 10 points, you get 18" A1 S9, AP4 d6+4. Oh and they get the strands of fate Miracle dice.

This is why I feel like the Emperor's Chosen is a bit of a distraction. When there is hella cheap anti-tank fire on the battlefield, a 4+ against mortals isn't doing us any big favors. We need to hit harder, not take hits better. Solar and Shadow help us kill better. We need to break away from the Turtle style of gameplay that we've become used to, and get out there and kill fast.

Hey everyone,

So, I have a slight problem and I wanted to get some advice. My local store is awesome, but recently implemented a policy where tournaments require 100% GW and FW models. MOST of my Custodes are some version of 3rd party conversion... but I crunched the numbers and I do have enough “official” stuff to put together a somewhat odd 2k point list.

Essentially:

1 Allarus Captain (with a converted Obliteratum, but apparently that's cool)

1 Blade Champion (actually not the official model, but it's a GW conversion, so apparently that's okay)

9x shield custodes (three squads of three)

x2 Contemptor Dreads (One MM and One Kheres)

x2 Galatus Dreads

x2 Achillus Dreads (gun choice isn't glued on yet)

x1 Venerable Land Raider

=

somewhere around 1990 pts with the new point costs (assuming the Achillus have the expensive guns)



So here is my question: is this even vaguely competitive as it stands? I figure I'm going to have to shell out for a few more official GW stuff pretty soon and start tweaking things, (probably getting rid of the LR first,) but right now this is what I have that meets the criteria.

Also, what shield host would you pick for the above list? Right now I'm leaning towards Dreadhost, but I can definitely be persuaded to some other shieldhost.

Thanks in advance!

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
Everyone will be big on the Emperor's Chosen for a while I think, simply because of the defense. But in time the offensive power of the others will win out I think. Also, I trust the guys at Art of War about as far as I can throw one of them. YMMV.

So I'm giving up on the Bike list for now, as it's practically impossible to win the objective game now.

Gonna try and go Full Wardens for fun and see how far I can get. HQ of Trajaan and a Blade Champion.

3x3 spear guardians
3x6 spear wardens
2x mm Contemptors


Some prosecutors for flavor, or to get me closer to 2000.

Emperor's chosen boosts dreadnoughts that we still kinda need because everything in the game is getting -1 damage.

We absolutely can't rely on our infantry to match up against other combat specialists, they will just lose. It's dreadnoughts and missile bikes and characters. And even our characters kind of fall flat into -1 damage. Like, for 175 points you can have the honor of dying in 1 turn to a beastsnagga boss on the sqig that's 30 points cheaper after you do maybe 2 or 3 damage to him with your vertus shield captain.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
The new Eldar Fire Dragons are leaked, and they are packing d6+4, which is INSANE. 5-10 models, 23 points each. They have a 12" A1 S9 AP4 d6+2. For an extra 10 points, you get 18" A1 S9, AP4 d6+4. Oh and they get the strands of fate Miracle dice.

This is why I feel like the Emperor's Chosen is a bit of a distraction. When there is hella cheap anti-tank fire on the battlefield, a 4+ against mortals isn't doing us any big favors. We need to hit harder, not take hits better. Solar and Shadow help us kill better. We need to break away from the Turtle style of gameplay that we've become used to, and get out there and kill fast.

If they suppress armor hard enough, custodes is a dead letter.

But like, custodes are fethed into eldar. They are getting super AT to kill our dreads. Then they get -1 damage tough objective grabbers. And like, bizarro world super durable wave serpents cause the eldar rules writer went "Oh we have started to overtune AT damage? Better make sure the wave serpent is very hard to kill into that. Oh and fething unkillable to anyone without that lul"

Remember, the playtesters have gone "Eldar are fethed, there's no hope, burn all your other armies"

I'm prepared to withhold judgement until i have the codex and until I see the final Eldar codex rules. You can out range the fire dragons with spears or axes and will make some holes in them with S4 AP-1 D2 shooting but i do take the point more generally in terms of upcoming codexes and their damage output. The tau railgun was insane, the heavy wraithcannon looks almost as bad, now we have the fusion pikes on the fire dragons. There seems to be no logic behind what gets what damage and why, the fact that improvised mining equipment does more damage than the weapons of the elite guardians of the emperor of mankind shows this. Why are the custodes not just going grabbing some mining picks and defending the emperor with those? In any case, spare a thought for the poor necrons whose entire weapon range almost seems to just have a spin the wheel approach to damage.

Fire Dragons have hurt our infantry since start of 8th. It's not really new. They get murderized in return pretty easily once out of transport. It's like playing any Eldar: blow (transport), torch (contents). Rinse and repeat. We'll need full datasheets/strats/e.t.c. to see the optimal way of doing that.

Blowing the transport isn't gonna happen. Have you seen what they're doing to wave serpents?

leerm02 wrote:

Hey everyone,

So, I have a slight problem and I wanted to get some advice. My local store is awesome, but recently implemented a policy where tournaments require 100% GW and FW models. MOST of my Custodes are some version of 3rd party conversion... but I crunched the numbers and I do have enough “official” stuff to put together a somewhat odd 2k point list.

Essentially:

1 Allarus Captain (with a converted Obliteratum, but apparently that's cool)

1 Blade Champion (actually not the official model, but it's a GW conversion, so apparently that's okay)

9x shield custodes (three squads of three)

x2 Contemptor Dreads (One MM and One Kheres)

x2 Galatus Dreads

x2 Achillus Dreads (gun choice isn't glued on yet)

x1 Venerable Land Raider

=

somewhere around 1990 pts with the new point costs (assuming the Achillus have the expensive guns)



So here is my question: is this even vaguely competitive as it stands? I figure I'm going to have to shell out for a few more official GW stuff pretty soon and start tweaking things, (probably getting rid of the LR first,) but right now this is what I have that meets the criteria.

Also, what shield host would you pick for the above list? Right now I'm leaning towards Dreadhost, but I can definitely be persuaded to some other shieldhost.

Thanks in advance!

You're mostly O.K. except for the two plastic contemptors (MM and Kheres) and the Landraider. Those are generally considered pretty bleh.

For Shield Host, look at Emperor's Chosen. Less for the 4+++ and more for the '1 re-roll per squad'. You have a lot of MSU here so that gets some mileage.

Wait, Obliteratum has a specific model? I thought it was just a normal grenade launcher on the wrist.

Also, I'd go out on a limb and ask if they'd let you "counts as" the Contemptors as something else.

Finally, Necrons are suffering from "first codex" syndrome. The first codex is always garbage by the end of an edition. First and last. Last because you only get to play it for about 6-12 months, if that. Sisters dropped in 8th and we had 9th like what, 4 months later?

I am trying to figure out why GW didn't make axes 3D, I think they considered it and decided against it. The reason I can think of is that 3D axes would be too power full with wardens and Allarus hitting on 2+, 4 attacks and being hard to kill. Besides Deathwing knights I can't think of any unit with a 3D weapon that hits on 2+ and has a 2+/4++.

S8, 5 attacks, ap3 D3, with the new katas, our axes would have been anti-horde as well as anti-elite.

I just want either all bikes to lose ObSec, or give us back obsec.

I seriously doubt that Fire Dragons will be our bane. They look good but eldar are only going to take so many of them and the short range means they need to be paired with a transport to really work. They'll hurt but they should be manageable.

Hey guys what you think of the elite sisters units.

I was thinking a hq with flame relic with the flamers or small squads of vigilators.

So the flamers are interesting, a horde of auto-hitting S5 ap1 d1 shooting is a great way to thin out hordes, and even SM.

The sword sisters are still mostly useless, given we don't need S6 melee, at all.

Ok peeps, time for another meme list only this time from solar watch. I lovingly dub this the First Turn Funk House:




Alright so heres the plan. Behind enemy lines, banners/strangle, Our new Kill secondary/assasinate/BiD (whichever is better into opponent).
Deployment, Coronus on the line, vexilla hidden, spear guard hidden, bike captain on the line, venetari and terminators hidden. Allarus in deep strike. Trajann with the spear guard. Take Calistus, Dacatarai or Rendax depending on opponent, then kaptaris or salvus. Stance 1 first round (use both if you plan on swapping turn 2).
If you get first turn you win. redeploy the vex and venetari into the coronus and prepare for fun. If you get second you can move the coronus into a saver position and put the venetari into deep strike.

Plan is though, very simple. Vexilla exits coronus and advances. If you roll less than a 4 on both dice use a reroll. Run him straight at the things you want dead. Next up, exit the venetari, also advancing, towards a target they can mulch pretty easily. With average rolls you should be able to move them about 20" up the field. Bike captain activates the double move on his auric and lands 35" up the field right where he needs to be to buff the venetari and the terminators after they charge. trajaan, shield boys, and coronus move onto as many objectives as they can. End of the move phase you teleport your aquilons 9" away from whatever needs to die off the vex.

Shoot any screens or weak obsec units you want in the shooting phase, then have a blast as you go into the charge phase with your opponent still processing you making a first turn charge with a unit of termies and venetari.

You have an 8" charge with the termies and possibly an even shorter one with the venetari.


If the fighting goes like you want, you can score Behind on turn one potentially. If not, you'll have single man allarus dropping in to score that for you in turn 2 and afterwards.

Can we still take Sag troops in groups of 5? Because 250 points is a small amount for a Strike Force of Emperors Chosen in the backfield.

saggitarum datasheet hasnt changed at all to my knowledge.

Until the FAQ drops they dont even benefit from ka'tahs

No, but they do get shield host benefits, and FGLTC. That's all that is needed.

Until they release the updated Las-Rifles for Cadians. Assault 4 at 18" S4 AP2 D1.

Or the new Basilisk Profile: No LOS, Heavy 3 72" S10 ap4, d3+3.
or Heavy 1 72" S14 AP5 D6+6 Earthshaker round.

/S

novembermike wrote:
I seriously doubt that Fire Dragons will be our bane. They look good but eldar are only going to take so many of them and the short range means they need to be paired with a transport to really work. They'll hurt but they should be manageable.

Look, wave serpents are gonna be a thing, and really, put whatever in them really. It doesn't matter.

Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?

I thought someone stated they are free upgrades now? If so, then that's a definite yes.

 cuda1179 wrote:

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Like a lot of people, I've had Custodes on the mind recently, but I have a query for those that have experiencing playing them:

Are misericordia worth taking?

I thought someone stated they are free upgrades now? If so, then that's a definite yes.

That's a rumor for the next CA which comes out like a week after our Codex. So we'll know soon.

If not, Misericordias are more of a "I have 20 pts left and no other way to put them".
They're filler and obligatory on Saggitarum Guard. Otherwise - nice to have, but not worth taking over anything else.
Once they go free - why WOULDN'T you?

Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.

I take them, if only because it's resulted in some pretty hilarious last ditch kills. Especially on bikers with re-roll wounds. Which isn't a thing anymore. But still, logic applies.

 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.

We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.

FezzikDaBullgryn wrote:
I take them, if only because it's resulted in some pretty hilarious last ditch kills. Especially on bikers with re-roll wounds. Which isn't a thing anymore. But still, logic applies.

Reroll wounds was a weapon rule, not a model rule.
So if you were rerolling your Misericordia wound rolls on Vertus Praetors before... You were cheating.

KGYM wrote:

 Insularum wrote:
Plenty of codex reviews up on youtube showing page by page (sprues & brews has a decent clear vid without potato cam quality) - misericordia are not free, generally 5 on a character and 3 on a squad. Also, Wardens don't have them as standard anymore - they have to pay (but still work out cheaper than before so not bad).

As before, Sag Guard need them, everywhere else they are a way of burning those last few points. In Crusade games the relic knife looks ok I guess.

We are talking about MFM leaks, preorder probably jan22, and they have free misericordias.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AfQplsy7xw0 <- same leaks as these rather suspicious looking ones?

Wouldn't count on custodians getting point changes right away with just book coming out. Albeit GW doesn't change points for sake of balance but for marketing but still bit rich.