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KGYM wrote:

 Sketch201 wrote:
Now that the new Codex is out in the wild, what are everyone's thoughts on the loadout to give Custodian Guard? Guardian spears vs. Sword and board?

They both have the 4+ invuln now, so maybe the shield is less useful than it used to be, but the 1+ save sure is nice to have. The spear hits harder in melee and has longer reach vs shooting, but the sword has the Pistol trait and can be fired in melee.

I'm just so torn! Help a battle brother out?

Maybe I'm just resilient to change, but I still roll with sword n board. The 1+ is incredible, and the improved blade profile means that they hit just enough. Ofc spears are better offensively, but do you need them? Do you not have enough hitters as is? I frequently swarm the midboard with wardens and shields, and with the -1 to hit strat of the latters, I hit like a hammer and take like an anvil.

Mate, what Is the -1 to hit strat? omg. have I missed something key?

I have yet to get the codex. Hi Ust to confirm, there is still no way to put two relics on the same character, right?

Scoundrel80 wrote:

KGYM wrote:

 Sketch201 wrote:
Now that the new Codex is out in the wild, what are everyone's thoughts on the loadout to give Custodian Guard? Guardian spears vs. Sword and board?

They both have the 4+ invuln now, so maybe the shield is less useful than it used to be, but the 1+ save sure is nice to have. The spear hits harder in melee and has longer reach vs shooting, but the sword has the Pistol trait and can be fired in melee.

I'm just so torn! Help a battle brother out?

Maybe I'm just resilient to change, but I still roll with sword n board. The 1+ is incredible, and the improved blade profile means that they hit just enough. Ofc spears are better offensively, but do you need them? Do you not have enough hitters as is? I frequently swarm the midboard with wardens and shields, and with the -1 to hit strat of the latters, I hit like a hammer and take like an anvil.

Mate, what Is the -1 to hit strat? omg. have I missed something key?

Praesidium Shield Wall.
-1 to hit in Melee if all your models are equipped with said shields

Thanks for all the input everyone, I think I'll be going with two mixed squads of 2 spears and 1 shield each, and one squad of all shields. Does that sound like a good loadout?

The rest of the list is 3 Heroes (Trajann, Allarrus Captain, and a bike captain), Allarus termies, 6 bikes, and a Contemptor.

I'm trying to stay within the main codex for now, and I'll branch out into Forgeworld stuff later ( The Sagitarum look AWESOME! )

Not really worth dropping CP on a unit that is mostly impervious to everything other than AT fire though.

 Thairne wrote:

Scoundrel80 wrote:

KGYM wrote:

 Sketch201 wrote:
Now that the new Codex is out in the wild, what are everyone's thoughts on the loadout to give Custodian Guard? Guardian spears vs. Sword and board?

They both have the 4+ invuln now, so maybe the shield is less useful than it used to be, but the 1+ save sure is nice to have. The spear hits harder in melee and has longer reach vs shooting, but the sword has the Pistol trait and can be fired in melee.

I'm just so torn! Help a battle brother out?

Maybe I'm just resilient to change, but I still roll with sword n board. The 1+ is incredible, and the improved blade profile means that they hit just enough. Ofc spears are better offensively, but do you need them? Do you not have enough hitters as is? I frequently swarm the midboard with wardens and shields, and with the -1 to hit strat of the latters, I hit like a hammer and take like an anvil.

Mate, what Is the -1 to hit strat? omg. have I missed something key?

Praesidium Shield Wall.
-1 to hit in Melee if all your models are equipped with said shields

Ah, yeah. I thought of shooting. I use that one all the time. I must say, though. I feel once they get to melee, things are pretty good no matter how guards are kitted out. getting them shot off the board is the big thing. I've experimented with dense and light banners and have even considered running both. or 3 even. the light cover one is just so amazing.

Yeah I'd say three squads of Custodian Guard, two mixed and one all sword & board will be a fine place to start. After playing a few games you'll get a feel for when you need Spears and when the Swords will do just fine. I personally love the Sword and Board models so that's what I run.

Don't forget to make the most of Arcane Genetic Alchemy, Emperor's Auspice, and Tanglefoot Grenades as your key stratagems when getting used to 9th.

I just can't get rid of the thought of running 2x light banners for +2 armor save and at dense one for -1 shooting.

hmm.. or actually, i dont think the light banner bonus stacks? I mean, it doesn't say +1 armor save, it says benefits of light cover. I guesss you can only have that once?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
I just can't get rid of the thought of running 2x light banners for +2 armor save and at dense one for -1 shooting.

hmm.. or actually, i dont think the light banner bonus stacks? I mean, it doesn't say +1 armor save, it says benefits of light cover. I guesss you can only have that once?

Only once.

Also, even if it was just +1 to armor saves, it wouldn't stack, because it's the same ability.

Keep in mind as more codexes get updated to 9th there are more units that can ignore "-1 to Hit" or have Ignore Cover abilities which will nullify your Vexilla.

Two Vexilus Praetors can be useful if you plan on marching a host of guard squads up the board but you'll run into challenges if the mid-field objectives are spread far apart. On a large battlefield you may want to consider running two with one on each flank, then deciding whether the -1 Hit or +1 Armor Save is best depending on the opponent.

In that case, you might want to also look at more Terminators.
While bikes are fast, Terminators can be there instantly.

if you activate stance 2 of the calistus katah the telemons bolt launcher has 10 shots even after an advance, right?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
if you activate stance 2 of the calistus katah the telemons bolt launcher has 10 shots even after an advance, right?

The dreadnoughts can't do Karate, so no unfortunately.

duh, I totally knew that. thanks for reactivating my brain..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
one more thing, could some of you tell me how you guys are using the plate cap? is he as good as we thought? what role does he fill and what are the best builds of him? im building a list, where I can't afford the bike cap..

He's essentially Auto-take currently. If we get FAQ Nerfed in the coming weeks/months because of people whinging about how game breaking it is, it'll be what it is at that point. But right now, without too much arguing, it's likely one of the best Relics in the game, period.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
duh, I totally knew that. thanks for reactivating my brain..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
one more thing, could some of you tell me how you guys are using the plate cap? is he as good as we thought? what role does he fill and what are the best builds of him? im building a list, where I can't afford the bike cap..

Well, the most obvious use would be to use him when one of you units get charged. This is good because it does not matter where the captain currently is in the field. But remember that you can use the teleport shunt even if none of your units got charged. If there is an enemy unit within 4" of one of your units in your opponents charge phase, the plate captain can teleport shunt into that enemy unit. This is why he's often played with the impregnable mind Wl trait because if your opponent is not careful, there's going to be a really tough character that counts as 4 obsec models right in their face.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
duh, I totally knew that. thanks for reactivating my brain..


Automatically Appended Next Post:
one more thing, could some of you tell me how you guys are using the plate cap? is he as good as we thought? what role does he fill and what are the best builds of him? im building a list, where I can't afford the bike cap..

As per usual, I can just kind of give the competitive perspective.

He's considered perfectly valid pick. A list will not be made top tier competitive by his inclusion or exclusion but it won't lose that status because of it either. Some take him, some don't. It's an open question whether you can just sub him for a Vexilla with the same relic without losing effectiveness.

but how does it work? why is he allowed to fight? when exactly can he pile in to enemy units, is it considered a heroic intervention? I guess, he fights after chargers, but what is the exact timing? Also, are there some shenanigans you can make with his big base blocking oenemy units from reaching their intended target.. nah prolly not as this happens AFTER charges, I guess. What are typical shenans with this guy. He can't go anywhere on his own, right? you always need a friendly unit to shunt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, if the opponent didn't declare him as the target of the charge.. then how can they fight him? omg. my mind just got blown. He is not immune to getting fought that turn, right?



Automatically Appended Next Post:
no. sorry. brain fart. if he intervenes, I guess he can be fought as per usual. I must say, though, I see a lot of weird interactions popping up. Those fight phase micromanaging things are super dense.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
but how does it work? why is he allowed to fight? when exactly can he pile in to enemy units, is it considered a heroic intervention? I guess, he fights after chargers, but what is the exact timing? Also, are there some shenanigans you can make with his big base blocking oenemy units from reaching their intended target.. nah prolly not as this happens AFTER charges, I guess. What are typical shenans with this guy. He can't go anywhere on his own, right? you always need a friendly unit to shunt.


Automatically Appended Next Post:
also, if the opponent didn't declare him as the target of the charge.. then how can they fight him? omg. my mind just got blown. He is not immune to getting fought that turn, right?

https://www.goonhammer.com/ruleshammer-heroic-intervention-always-fight-first-and-fight-again-abilities/

yeah, so you can actually use him to hinder enemy movement. If he bases some models, they won't be able to pile in afterwards. Also, he could pop up, make his 3 inch move and block models from piling in where they wanted to because they now have to go around him for example? this happens after all charge moves have been completed. He then intervenes, and THEN the charger choses where to fight in the charge-fighting sequence and makes his pile in moves, right? so this 40mm base popping in could mess his plans up quite much. or am I getting it wrong. its just an HI, right?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
yeah, so you can actually use him to hinder enemy movement. If he bases some models, they won't be able to pile in afterwards. Also, he could pop up, make his 3 inch move and block models from piling in where they wanted to because they now have to go around him for example? this happens after all charge moves have been completed. He then intervenes, and THEN the charger choses where to fight in the charge-fighting sequence and makes his pile in moves, right? so this 40mm base popping in could mess his plans up quite much. or am I getting it wrong. its just an HI, right?

The teleport-shunt was very likely meant to count as a heroic intervention, but rules as written it is not a HI...so technically the plate captain can not be targeted in the fight phase. This is very likely going to be FAQd.

So if he doesn't charge and he doesn't count as intervening (with the current wording), he just simply is allowed to fight because you can always fight in the fight phase during the "non chargers fight"-sequence if you end up in within engagement range with a model, or what?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
So if he doesn't charge and he doesn't count as intervening (with the current wording), he just simply is allowed to fight because you can always fight in the fight phase during the "non chargers fight"-sequence if you end up in within engagement range with a model, or what?

Yes. But like I said, as soon as there's an FAQ up for our codex, the teleport-shunt from the praerorian plate is very likely going to officially count as a heroic intervention. LVO already house ruled it as a heroic intervention.

sorry for spamming, Tiberias, but what difference would that make game-mechanic-wise?

Scoundrel80 wrote:
sorry for spamming, Tiberias, but what difference would that make game-mechanic-wise?

The main difference would be that the plate captain can be attacked by the unit he shunts into if the shunt officially counts as a heroic intervention.

So im stumped, i have no clue how to beat triple stormsurge.

In fact i'd go so far as to say you cannot beat triple stormsurge no matter what you take.

They are severely undercosted (about 75pts too cheap).

They are cheaper than an ares/knight, more durable (because in-built 4++), 2-3x better at range, all at the cost of having a bad melee profile and subpar movement (which is offset buy Mont'ka letting them advance and fire).

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So im stumped, i have no clue how to beat triple stormsurge.

In fact i'd go so far as to say you cannot beat triple stormsurge no matter what you take.

They are severely undercosted (about 75pts too cheap).

They are cheaper than an ares/knight, more durable (because in-built 4++), 2-3x better at range, all at the cost of having a bad melee profile and subpar movement (which is offset buy Mont'ka letting them advance and fire).

Only thing that I can think of would be abusing LOS blocking cover until you can get them into melee. But that is a dicey proposition for sure.
Also....3 stormsurge is nearly 1k points by itself? They should be so thin on the ground, that could attacked to make sure the stormsurge must stay on objectives to actually win.

 iGuy91 wrote:

 Eihnlazer wrote:
So im stumped, i have no clue how to beat triple stormsurge.

In fact i'd go so far as to say you cannot beat triple stormsurge no matter what you take.

They are severely undercosted (about 75pts too cheap).

They are cheaper than an ares/knight, more durable (because in-built 4++), 2-3x better at range, all at the cost of having a bad melee profile and subpar movement (which is offset buy Mont'ka letting them advance and fire).

Only thing that I can think of would be abusing LOS blocking cover until you can get them into melee. But that is a dicey proposition for sure.
Also....3 stormsurge is nearly 1k points by itself? They should be so thin on the ground, that could attacked to make sure the stormsurge must stay on objectives to actually win.

This is similar to my thoughts too. Kill everything BUT the Stormsurges and try to outscore. If you take Wardens you can abuse bodyguard too by putting the Wardens out of line of sight and a character on the objective. For that objective, Tau won't have an6 valid targets to shoot.

Another outing trying to make the most of Valerian and Aleya. Rematch against Dark Eldar doing the same mission and setup.

Army

Photos and Commentary


General thoughts and observations
I'm starting to warm up to Valerian, the permanent Transhuman, reroll 1 save per round makes him a rather sturdy HQ choice. Gnosis ignoring FnP is a nice trick as well. That said we already have so many good options, but I rather enjoy running him with Aleya to fit the story.

This game I tried to max out my Sisters to make the most of Aleya's reroll Wounds aura. My opponent didn't want his venoms carved up by Vigilators again so they were shot down or torn up by a Succubus before they had a chance to act. The prosecutors on the other hand wiped out close to 20 Dark Eldar Infantry. The one nice thing about running so many Sisters in this army is the target saturation, my opponent doesn't want to waste their big guns on a Sisters unit, so all the Dark Lances and Blasters were searching and traversing for my Custodes, meanwhile the Sisters were often ignored or hit with some token poison shots where the 3+ armor save kept them safe. I recommend trying out a Sisters blob with Aleya sometime.

Kata's are great when you remembered them. With the 9th edition rules onion you're bound to miss a layer or two of rules if you're playing fast or if you're playing beerhammer and get absorbed more in the conversation and less in the rulebook. For me I forgot about the effects of Rendax on Rounds 2 & 3; thankfully my opponent did a great job remembering the Shadowkeepers -1 Attacks trait when parceling out his melee attacks.

Round 4 Score: Custodes 74 Dark Eldar 56

Reasons for Victory
-All CP were spent defensively (Arcane Genetic Alchemy, Emperor's Auspice, Shield Wall, Creeping Dread, Rerolls)
-Guard Squads didn't flub their Invuls, last game I lost 8/9 Guards after Drazhar+Incubi charge, this game I only lost 3
-Drazhar had some unlucky Invul saves, as did many of the Wyches in Melee. After I wiped his melee units I swept up the board
-Our GT2022 mission secondary highly rewarded Attrition, every round I was able to destroy more units than my opponent
-Sisters were more effective than I expected this game. A combination of target saturation and good rolls.
-One of the suggestions earlier in the thread was the viability of hurricane bolters, they were remarkably more effective for me this game compared to salvo launchers. Historically I have rolled nothing but 1s when Meltas are involved

Question for people on here, have you yet to lose against anything but the mirror or Tau? At this point those are the only 2 matchups I feel are worth discussing, as anything else has been easy win after easy win (for me at least).

Tau seems like it requires some level of finesse. Targeting their battlesuits first seems similar to targeting our bikes. Killing them early makes the most sense. Also remember to force them to take saves on suits first by firing chip shots with spears and axes , than hitting them salvo launchers. That way they can’t just sacrifice drones to save suits outside of their 1 strat,. Finally, being able to charge their back line stuff with bikes and captains also makes a lot of sense. Using cover and LoS blocking terrain only really helps against certain units as well, so be more interested in scoring points early than protecting your guys all’s makes sense

The mirror is the mirror. I’ve had success with bating their bikes out with less important units. 3 Bike lists seem like the go to now since they are so good in the mirror (and in general tbh). That said outside of Trajann they are most likely to get nerfed, so only buy 3 boxes if you want to be very competitive