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Dudeface wrote:
I was really excited from the back end of last year when the rumours dropped but this seems to be more and more of a cursed release (excuse the pun).

Its just gone on for to long now. We've had to wait years from the two wound anouncement to start getting marketing drivel and leaks for the codex and we still don't have a release date. Even the new models aren't that exciting; replacements for models that have need them for years or models no one asked for. Finally, the Nephilim Chapter Approved changes just bum me out.

Abby seems like he's got his gak together at last. Glad he can lead any chaos marine force, that's a big boon.

Holy hell, Abigail can really blend a horde.

Well, i dont care for BL...
But there are all 4 Marks confirmed! Tzeentch one was realy great in my Testgames!!!

Finally real leaks..........Abby looks great but I wish we could see his PL so get an idea of points. The Oblits I believe are right on the money with the previous early leek, so looks like those are going to be pretty much on point. I actually love the stats for the Oblits, no more random crap, and they are good against a slew of enemies. The shoot into combat is just a bonus.

I agree on mark of Tzeentch. I think it will be under rated by the community because "well just shoot damage one weapons first". However this misses the point that your opponent won't always have damage one weapons to shoot first due to target priority or LOC etc. and for units like Oblits, ok shoot them with your small arms that they will soak up easily just to get that one wound. Then those shots are not going against my marines or cultists where they would be more effective. Since I play Tzeentch forces almost exclusively I am happy with this.

Confirmation of the effects of all Marks. And they all match up to the leaks, including the weird way that Mark of Nurgle works. Like it or not, it appears that very little has been changed since the playtest rules.

And 5PL per Obliterator. That works out to about 100 PPM. Owwww........

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Confirmation of the effects of all Marks. And they all match up to the leaks, including the weird way that Mark of Nurgle works. Like it or not, it appears that very little has been changed since the playtest rules.

And 5PL per Obliterator. That works out to about 100 PPM. Owwww........

Oblits are already PL5 and 95ppm, so no real change there.

Abbadon has a pretty incredible profile. I think at around 350 or less I would auto-take him.

C'tan woundgate and LoS is pretty terrifying.

Oblits at 100 PPM are intreasting. They seem to be quite a bit better, but still not sure if they are worth that kind of investment.

Also: it appears that the DAEMONKIN keyword isn't a replacement for the DAEMON keyword, but is in addition to it, at least in the case of Obliterators.

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Also: it appears that the DAEMONKIN keyword isn't a replacement for the DAEMON keyword, but is in addition to it, at least in the case of Obliterators.

And daemonic is a special rule as well. A trifecta of redundant naming.

I assume Oblits aren't markable in any way. At least the dumb endless cacophony slaanesh oblits will stop.

And once again I feel like a 'flexible gun' can just have the middle option and not care.

Voss wrote:

 Gadzilla666 wrote:
Also: it appears that the DAEMONKIN keyword isn't a replacement for the DAEMON keyword, but is in addition to it, at least in the case of Obliterators.

And daemonic is a special rule as well. A trifecta of redundant naming.

I assume Oblits aren't markable in any way. At least the dumb endless cacophony slaanesh oblits will stop.

And once again I feel like a 'flexible gun' can just have the middle option and not care.

Yeah Obliterators not being allowed marks is dumb since they've always had access to them. Sure it'd be easier to just remove the double shooting strat since it's dumb anyway, but gotta make double sure!

I don't believe 'always' is correct, but I'm not in a place to dig through a pile of old books to make sure.

Given their origins and background, I like them better without god marks. There really isn't enough of a person left that a mark seems meaningful.

https://imgur.io/a/i6iveks

Full text summary of the codex

 xttz wrote:
https://imgur.io/a/i6iveks

Full text summary of the codex

That's.....just a word for word copy of one of Clockworkchris' summaries of the playtest doc. It even has their added comments in it.

Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

I wouldn't call the loss of Mutilators a negative, but Lords being confirmed to have lost Jump Packs (even though there's a model for it) is highly concerning.

Link, please?

Selfcontrol wrote:
Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

Here are the points :

Dudeface wrote:
The mutants confirmed for me what I expected to happen, they simple can't really coexist with spawn. One or the other will always be slightly better whilst having a identical use case as far as I can see.

Duplication is a persistent problem across various armies. But it doesn't exist just in very similar looking units, it is also a problem for all units with similar roles, eg striking scorpions and banshees. It's even more painful if those units are in the same force organisation slot. At least in this instance one is troops and the other is elites(?) That could be good for a themed force, whether it's good on the tabletop, who knows...

For my thousand sons however this just gives me a few more good options for spawn fodder. I had completely forgotten that these models were due to be released. I wonder if the unit will be in one box or if you buy the torments separately.

Looks like the Cultist Firebrand didn't make the cut. Despite, y'know, being in the box which GW sell...

Selfcontrol wrote:
Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

Based on some info I've seen: some.of this is wrong, some of this is ignorant".

They can't give specifics thanks to NDA.

Happy to see venom crawlers move to Fast Attack, makes life easier for my Iron Warriors

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Selfcontrol wrote:
Full points leaks on Reddit.

The good :

- Legionnaries are only 19 ppm ;
- Cultists are 5 ppm ;
- Mutants are 6 ppm and Torments are 15 ppm (come in a mixed squad of 5-10 Mutants and 3-6 Torments) ;
- Terminators are 33 ppm ;
- Abaddon is 300 ppm ;
- Possessed and Warp Talons are 28/29 ppm (quality of the pictures are bad) ;
- Chaos Lord still has a bunch of options ;
- All Marks cost 15 points (flat).

The BAD :

- No jump pack for Chaos Lord and Sorcerers (not listed as an option and Daemon Prince still has the option for Wings) => Gadzilla on suicide watch ;
- No Mutilators. They are gone ;
- No datasheet for Traitor Guard from KT ;
- Land Raider, Predator etc are still overcosted just like DG and TS (no support at all from GW, as expected).

The mixed :

- Greater Possessed are also gone because, as we know, their profile has been absorbed by the new Possessed.

Based on some info I've seen: some.of this is wrong, some of this is ignorant".

They can't give specifics thanks to NDA.

It's from actual scans of the Codex.

I've never seen mutilators in the wild, I think thanks to the awful official models. I can't say I'm mourning their loss too much.

 ClockworkZion wrote:

Based on some info I've seen: some.of this is wrong, some of this is ignorant".

They can't give specifics thanks to NDA.

Seems pretty accurate to the screenshots they posted.

Abbadon at 300 pts is going to be the first thing every army includes.

Yeah, 300 points is value town for what he brings. He does have a wacky stack of rules though, it's like the culmination of all the new trendy rules buffs of 9th ed being compiled into one model. I love how Abbadon keeps getting juiced up in stats with each iteration, he went from S4 T5, to S5 T5, to S6 T6, which is pretty much borderline primarch stats. Abba Dabba Doo indeed.

I'll tell you this much, Ghazzy and guys like the Nightbringer are giving him the ol stink eye for his value package.

I used the points to create a list and man Legionaries get pricey REAL FAST. If you kit them out fully with all the bells and whistles it is getting close to like 275 almost 300. For ten CSM. Also I love the cost of the Lord Discordant, Oblits, and venom crawlers. All much cheaper then I was expecting.

Where are the Traitorguardsmen?