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 Kanluwen wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

At the very least, the exalted champion doesn't have half his foot fused to the base, so that swapping him to a larger base isn't an issue. (Strange that the sculpted base has a dead necron, since he was released around the time of DV, but good on GW for variety.)

The arms not being fused also make it easier for conversion (though once again, the model will be noticeably smaller than current CSMs, so why bother?)

Still, makes you wonder why a one week MTO model is codex worthy, but a jump pack chaos lord who is only on "range rotation" got the axe? It's honestly harder to kitbash an exalted champion, because although it's easy to find axe and knife arms, 90% of CSM melee weapons are left handed, and you still need to attach the combi bolter. Its much easier to make a jumppack lord....

Likely because they have model plans or know that the model was in excessive circulation. The AdMech book features the Technoarchaeologist from Combat Arena/BSF: Escalation...but not the Servitor that came with them. It's a heck of a bit more of an issue to make a conversion when two of the loadout pieces(Servo-Arc Claw and Eradication Pistol) are not available anywhere else.

All of that said:
It wouldn't be that difficult to make an Exalted Champion. There's a power axe in the main CSM box for the Aspiring Champion. There's also one in the yet to be released Chosen kit. The combi-bolter is probably the hardest part to be sure.

Isn't there one in the Chosen kit?

It isn't difficult to make a Jump Lord either. Every Raptors/Warp Talons kit comes with five models that you can use. And they can be freely kitbashed with whatever weapons, arms, heads, or shoulder pads that you want for the Legionaries, Havocs, or Chosen kits. Same goes for Harkon. Anything that fits those kits will fit him.

chaos0xomega wrote:
I will miss the 20 man squads, but other than that I don't think the army is as rigidly uncustomizable now as you feel it is. Yes, weapon options in many cases are more restrictive than before, but excessive options go hand in hand with bad balance. If you wanted the army not to be bottom of the barrel then you kind of have to accept the loss of some of those options as a casualty of the efforts to better balance the rules and make units that ended up overpriced and underpowered as a result of them having an excessive menu of options to select from (many people don't realize this but to some extent the cost of additional options is front-loaded into the cost of the unit itself in order to accommodate for a degree of "margin of error" in the units performance resulting from variability in its loadout, this is true even if you don't make use of those options). Its also worth pointing out that a lot of the stuff you're upset about losing is stuff that most people complained about - i.e. layered rules. You want to take your unit, stack vet tactics, marks, icons, and legion bonuses on there, not to mention strategems and combat doctrines, etc. and its a lot.

"An excessive menu of options"? Oh yeah let me look at the fewer options the Legionaries have than Imperial Marines, or the Sternguard, or the 3 types of Terminator unit Imperials have *in the base Codex*. Wow that's really excessive that CSM had options for their units.
I'm sure we all rememeber when Chosen were OP when they had access to duplicate weapons, or when the Codex was broken because we had Exalted Champions with options or Chaos Lords with Jump Packs. Multiple choices for wargear is not "layered rules".

Is it stupid? Or is it fluffy because the guys fighting a 10,000 year long war without a solid and consistent industrial base don't have enough weapons to go around to make sure everyone is consistently armed? For all this talk about how the army is supposed to be "chaotic", I feel like people are actually complaining that the army isn't ordered enough. Make no mistake - doubling up on weapons is not chaos, its order and organization, the exact opposite of chaos.

Legionaries now have the same limitations on Special and Heavy weapons as Imperial Astartes who literally follow a rulebook telling them how to work. You're making the mistake of thinking that being a CSM means utter insanity with no thought for tactics or viable weaponry and you couldn't be more wrong.

Snugiraffe wrote:

drbored wrote:


My shop also got a woefully small number of the Chaos Marine codex in stock compared to previous releases. Manager says its due to the paper shortage, but I honestly wonder if GW thought that they really might not sell all that many.

Drove 50 miles to the closest GW on Saturday to pick up my pre-ordered English copy of the Codex cause I wanted to make sure I had it before I took my family on holiday to a place that's even further away from anything 40k than where I live. More fool me. There are four GWs in the greater Berlin area, not one of them actually had an English copy (guy in the shop phoned around for me) and in total they got five German copies. There's deffo a shortage of something, though paper might not have been the only thing grumble grumble incompetent buffoons grumble.

from a German Retailer on FB:

Kurzes Update zur Neuheiten-Welle von letztem Samstag (Chaos SM Codex und co.).
Dies betrifft viele Händler in Deutschland.
"I am afraid that the order is on a trailer that is still pending delivery to UPS in France, we are chasing K&N for an update but there are a lot of other customer orders on that trailer and it's currently stuck in a customs hold-up. I will let you know when we have some news."
Guten Start in die Woche Euch!

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

 Kanluwen wrote:

 GaroRobe wrote:

At the very least, the exalted champion doesn't have half his foot fused to the base, so that swapping him to a larger base isn't an issue. (Strange that the sculpted base has a dead necron, since he was released around the time of DV, but good on GW for variety.)

The arms not being fused also make it easier for conversion (though once again, the model will be noticeably smaller than current CSMs, so why bother?)

Still, makes you wonder why a one week MTO model is codex worthy, but a jump pack chaos lord who is only on "range rotation" got the axe? It's honestly harder to kitbash an exalted champion, because although it's easy to find axe and knife arms, 90% of CSM melee weapons are left handed, and you still need to attach the combi bolter. Its much easier to make a jumppack lord....

Likely because they have model plans or know that the model was in excessive circulation. The AdMech book features the Technoarchaeologist from Combat Arena/BSF: Escalation...but not the Servitor that came with them. It's a heck of a bit more of an issue to make a conversion when two of the loadout pieces(Servo-Arc Claw and Eradication Pistol) are not available anywhere else.

All of that said:
It wouldn't be that difficult to make an Exalted Champion. There's a power axe in the main CSM box for the Aspiring Champion. There's also one in the yet to be released Chosen kit. The combi-bolter is probably the hardest part to be sure.

Isn't there one in the Chosen kit?

No silly, the Chosen box only has Accursed Weapons that can't be used for anything else. GW says so

I literally called out that there's a power axe in the Chosen kit...I'm assuming they are referring to the Combi-Melta.

Which is a good shoutout, but they have a lot of "kit specific" detailing making them harder to utilize elsewhere. You're better off just grabbing the Legion Combi-Weapons from FW.

 Kanluwen wrote:
I literally called out that there's a power axe in the Chosen kit...I'm assuming they are referring to the Combi-Melta.

Which is a good shoutout, but they have a lot of "kit specific" detailing making them harder to utilize elsewhere. You're better off just grabbing the Legion Combi-Weapons from FW.

Yep, just checked, the Chosen kit comes with two Combi-weapons, and you can build both as Combi-Melta. They're both two-handed though, so you'd have to be a bit creative with the Power Axe placement. At least it does theoretically mean you can get make Aspiring Champ out of just the Chosen kit.

I am curious as to what older players really find to be a significant issue rather than just an annoyance.
Legionaries now look decent, but no longer can be taken up to 20 strong and the duplicate special and heavy weapon change seemed arbitrary. However, does the unit still offer enough out the gate for players?
2 types of cultists now, plus a new HQ, so that’s a step forward.
HQ options being removed is probably the biggest issue IMHO but I don’t recall seeing many take Aspiring Champions at all. What HQ are people really thinking of using? Lords, DPs, discos, MoP, warpsmith. In todays limited spots for characters I’m not sure the champ would have been taken anyway. Will probably use mine in a chosen squad.

So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

 bullyboy wrote:
I am curious as to what older players really find to be a significant issue rather than just an annoyance.
Legionaries ow look decent, but no longer can be taken up to 20 strong and the duplicate special and heavy weapon seemed arbitrary. However, does the unit still offer enough out the gate for players?
2 types of cultists now, plus a new HQ, so that’s a step forward.
HQ options being removed is probably the biggest issue IMHO but I don’t recall seeing many take Aspiring Champions at all. What HQ are people really thinking of using? Lords, DPs, discos, MoP, warpsmith. In todays limited spots for characters I’m not sure the champ would have been taken anyway. Will probably use mine in a chosen squad.

So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

I think it's rather clear that people are missing the option to play vast parts of their collections, especially since many issues can't just be resolved by switching around weapon specialists or counts-as'ing some weapons as similar ones.

When Gert gets angry at GW, it's kind of like your canary dying while shoving rocks in a coal mine.

 Gert wrote:
Legionaries now have the same limitations on Special and Heavy weapons as Imperial Astartes who literally follow a rulebook telling them how to work. You're making the mistake of thinking that being a CSM means utter insanity with no thought for tactics or viable weaponry and you couldn't be more wrong.

Actually, in the interest of being fair, Chaos Legionnaires (which would've been a much better name than Legionaries) have more options than Tactical Marines, who cannot take two Special Weapons or two Heavy Weapons like their Chaos counterparts. The inability to double-up is obviously an arbitrary decision based on "What's in the box?!" and still stupid, but still more flexible than their closest comparable unit.

 bullyboy wrote:
I am curious as to what older players really find to be a significant issue rather than just an annoyance.
Legionaries now look decent, but no longer can be taken up to 20 strong and the duplicate special and heavy weapon change seemed arbitrary. However, does the unit still offer enough out the gate for players?
2 types of cultists now, plus a new HQ, so that’s a step forward.
HQ options being removed is probably the biggest issue IMHO but I don’t recall seeing many take Aspiring Champions at all. What HQ are people really thinking of using? Lords, DPs, discos, MoP, warpsmith. In todays limited spots for characters I’m not sure the champ would have been taken anyway. Will probably use mine in a chosen squad.

So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

Chunks of my army are unplayable as-is unless I tear them apart or buy new models.
Your issue is thinking people only ever take the optimised choices rather than what they like.
The new Cult models I really like, except I'm not going to expand my Word Bearers because I'd have to buy loads more Marines, which was what I was trying to avoid with the force. It was to be a Dark Apostle, his First Acolyte, a unit of Chosen and some Possessed/Greater Possessed with the teaming masses of the Apostles congregation. The teaming masses isn't an option while also taking stuff that isn't just the spam unit because I need a 1/1 ratio of Marine units to Cult units now.

 Jidmah wrote:
When Gert gets angry at GW, it's kind of like your canary dying while shoving rocks in a coal mine.

Hey, no trashtalking about the old chaos sorcs! They might be "old and ugly" but they are MY kind of old and ugly xD
They faithfully served me since i was a little boy and that makes them a classic
( They also are too small to work with modern minis. Be warned)


Anyway: when new Mutants?

 bullyboy wrote:
I am curious as to what older players really find to be a significant issue rather than just an annoyance.
Legionaries now look decent, but no longer can be taken up to 20 strong and the duplicate special and heavy weapon change seemed arbitrary. However, does the unit still offer enough out the gate for players?
2 types of cultists now, plus a new HQ, so that’s a step forward.
HQ options being removed is probably the biggest issue IMHO but I don’t recall seeing many take Aspiring Champions at all. What HQ are people really thinking of using? Lords, DPs, discos, MoP, warpsmith. In todays limited spots for characters I’m not sure the champ would have been taken anyway. Will probably use mine in a chosen squad.

So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

My Chaos Lord's lightning claws and jump pack. My Sorcerer's force sword and jump pack. Allllll of the various combi-weapons and lightning claws spread throughout all of my Aspiring Champions. My full chainfist Terminator squad, and the other one that's all double lightning claws. And finally, the hope that gw would finally pull their heads out of their and give Night Lords a fully functional Legion trait.

Wait, that last one isn't exactly right. Gw did give Night Lords fun, fluffy, and effective rules. It just wasn't the 40k gw. It was the 30k gw. Well, guess we know where they keep all of the competent rules writers now.

 bullyboy wrote:
I am curious as to what older players really find to be a significant issue rather than just an annoyance.
Legionaries now look decent, but no longer can be taken up to 20 strong and the duplicate special and heavy weapon change seemed arbitrary. However, does the unit still offer enough out the gate for players?
2 types of cultists now, plus a new HQ, so that’s a step forward.
HQ options being removed is probably the biggest issue IMHO but I don’t recall seeing many take Aspiring Champions at all. What HQ are people really thinking of using? Lords, DPs, discos, MoP, warpsmith. In todays limited spots for characters I’m not sure the champ would have been taken anyway. Will probably use mine in a chosen squad.

So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

fun fact about those added cultists:
the traitor guard are not in the dex
The commune may be an HQ but you still lack other options for cultists such as AT.
oh and "mere mortals" basically kills off any fun you could've had with a LatD / R&H type list you'd planned anyways
NVM the datasheets of the cultists are actually somehow WORSE than plague marines or Kommandos, which are allready bad enough to make players loose braincells.

The Legionaires not being able to double up on either specials or heavies, has to do with the fact that GW still fethed up with 1 specific weapon, namely the reaper chaincannon and insists on leaving a shoot double stratagem in the dex, ergo to avoid twin reaper chaincannons firing double on legionaires ontop of 7 bolters and a combi bolter the options for the later were removed and the former severly limited. Baseline GW bad design strikes again and we still have double shooting nonsense

Btw, fun fact, its only legionaires that are seemingly able to read books, everyone else (like chosen you know, the next in line of the hierarchy ) are too stupid to have one for their champion. Nvm Chaos lords?

As for the aspiring champion, the reason why he was never picked, was simply due to a lack of delivery options since his inception, he never got access to either jumpacks or bikes, hence compared to the chaos lord and sorcerer he was always obsolete in 6-7th. In 8th he technically had a nice aura but since transports sucked and still do he still wasn't able to be delivered propperly and now, he somehow got even worse with a fixed loadout.

See, I’m not buying all of the “my models can no longer be used” line. I have older chaos marines too, and they just need to be retasked. Multiple aspiring champions? Guess what leads each legionaries squad? Or put them in a chosen squad if you don’t want them to do that. Legionary aspiring champs can take daemon blades (great name for a lightning claw if you’ve modeled one), as well as your typical mix of fist, mail, sword etc. Have a pair of claws on one, stick him in a chosen squad, or two of them if you go 10 strong.
Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently. It’s not like we don’t just have extra models sat around as options and expect to use all the models all the time.

The complaint about jump packs on characters is probably the strongest I feel, and I hope GW changes their mind in this approach. Not holding my breath though. I feel there is a work around for most other issues though.

CoALabaer wrote:
Hey, no trashtalking about the old chaos sorcs! They might be "old and ugly" but they are MY kind of old and ugly xD
They faithfully served me since i was a little boy and that makes them a classic
( They also are too small to work with modern minis. Be warned)


Anyway: when new Mutants?

Still a 2 week preorder on the paints, so the best you'll get is chaos models on the upcoming preview this Sunday for a preorder the following Saturday, giving a release of 23rd July. This is the absolute best that can be hoped for.

 bullyboy wrote:


So my question is to the older players: what are you truly going to miss rather than just be annoyed at the changes?

Truth be told, I'll be able to work around most of the limitations, especially as I'm still right at the beginning of transitioning to the new models. Most of my collection dates back to Rogue Trader/early 2nd, so mixing the new and the old aesthetic just isn't gonna fly because of scale creep - the old 1989/1990 models just look ridiculous next to the new guys.

But my Jump Lord with lightning claw, that stings, badly. Lord Malkyre has been my army's figurehead in almost every single game of 40k I've ever played. He started off as a converted Space Crusade Chaos Commander mini with wings from a Heroquest Gargoyle. But, what with scale creep and the new aesthetic, I decided it was time to bring him into the new millennium at last and remade him, using a Havoc Champion and wings I got from a guy on Etsy. That was at the beginning of April. I've managed to use the new Lord Malkyre in three games and now he's going to have be... what? Dunno yet. A Possessed Champion? A Chosen Champion? Raptor Champ won't cut it, the stats just aren't good enough, and anyway, he's armed with a, yeah, a lightning claw.

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

Please direct me to the autocannons and lascannons location on the sprue.

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

Please direct me to the autocannons and lascannons location on the sprue.

Shadowspear came with a Chaos Space Marine lugging around an Autocannon in your regular CSM squad.

 Manfred von Drakken wrote:

Call me crazy, but if I'm a regular human with a sword, there should be pretty significant difference between trying to wound a goblin and trying to would a dragon.

And you do. But the difference isn't in a single dice roll. It's the same end result, but not trying to cram it into the wound roll specifically.

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

Please direct me to the autocannons and lascannons location on the sprue.

Shadowspear came with a Chaos Space Marine lugging around an Autocannon in your regular CSM squad.

But they're not in the box (also oop) and the options are apparently limited to those in the box. Given the balefire tome was brought up as an example and then compared to terminators, so completely unrelated, tells me that it was a vapid excuse to post something negative rather than anything grounded in genuine discussion.

 bullyboy wrote:
See, I’m not buying all of the “my models can no longer be used” line.

I have 30 Chaos Terminators. Ten of the old models and 20 of the new ones. In the 8th ed codex, I could run all 30 in three 10 man squads. It wasn't pretty and poorly optimized, but possible. However, I did run all 30 on occasion. I even ran a 1000pt all Chaos Terminator list of those 30 Terminators, Abaddon and a Sorcerer in Terminator armor.

With the new codex, I can still run 3 squads, but only in about 6 or 7 marines. This is largely due to me having 5 with combi-melta and powerfists. Which also happens to be my most used unit in all of 40k, as I love my Termicide unit. I also went with a fair number of powerfists with regular combi-bolters. And all of this butts up against the Rule of 3, which I do think is a good rule to prevent spamming even if the unit isn't OP, but just to allow variance. I know I would occasionally run like 50 Chaos Terminators if I could, because I think they're neat, but I am glad the game has a system in place to field different stuff.

That said, I'll admit; I am more annoyed about it than upset. If I really wanted to, I think I could get some of my regular opponents to allow me to break these loadout restrictions for a game. I also didn't get too far with lots of any particular loadout. I wanted a squad of 5 double lightning claw Terminators, but never got around to it. So I only have 2 with that load out.

But I also know that I am very much on the low side of that kind of thing as a CSM player. Most CSM players that have been at it as long or longer than I are far more likely to have models made redundant by these changes in numbers that they can no longer be fielded in a single list at the same time. And I do think they are justified for not liking these new restrictions.

Not allowing terminators to have all fists is indeed dumb. Restrictions on combo weapons is reasonable as they are special weapons as such. I know the box set has limitations but someone could buy 2 boxes if they wanted all fists in one squad. I guess some of your fists will just have to be accursed weapons and how fun that will be explaining to opponent which is which. So it’s still possible to run them, just annoying in the nature of it.

I was fortunate that I picked up 5 terms cheap from eBay a while ago and most were armed with chain axes and one with a chainfist. So basically I’m all accursed weapons and a chainfist on champ. No combo weapons (just combo bolters) but that’s a simple fix with snipping the bolter barrel and adding either melta or flamer attachment.

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

Please direct me to the autocannons and lascannons location on the sprue.

Shadowspear came with a Chaos Space Marine lugging around an Autocannon in your regular CSM squad.

But they're not in the box (also oop) and the options are apparently limited to those in the box. Given the balefire tome was brought up as an example and then compared to terminators, so completely unrelated, tells me that it was a vapid excuse to post something negative rather than anything grounded in genuine discussion.

Exalted Champ aint for sale either and he has a fixed loadout. Whats the point you're trying to make?

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

 Wha-Mu-077 wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Dudeface wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 bullyboy wrote:

Special weapons, heavy weapons, all can be used, just differently.

You mean only from what's in the box like Skitarii and Plague Marines? Great defense for the codex, I'm impressed.

Firstly stop this polarising black and white gak you do for literally everything, you use "defend" or "attack" for every single position, item, topic. It's possible to have an opinion or make an observation or comment that isn't "defending" anything but is simply a statement.

Secondly that's wrong, there are no lascannons for example in the legionnaires box, so it's not limiting you to the contents of the box at all, it's just trying to encourage you to build using the contents if at all. It is an utterly bizarre limitation but it isn't the usual "in the box" junk.

It absolutely is based on whats in the box. Or do you think it's just a balance mechanic that Chosen and Terminators dont have the Psyker upgrade?

Please direct me to the autocannons and lascannons location on the sprue.

Shadowspear came with a Chaos Space Marine lugging around an Autocannon in your regular CSM squad.

But they're not in the box (also oop) and the options are apparently limited to those in the box. Given the balefire tome was brought up as an example and then compared to terminators, so completely unrelated, tells me that it was a vapid excuse to post something negative rather than anything grounded in genuine discussion.

Exalted Champ aint for sale either and he has a fixed loadout. Whats the point you're trying to make?

Bullyboy correctly pointed out legionnaires don't have the same special/heavy restrictions as loyalists and that their current implementation is different but there aren't any redundant weapons or options within the list of options.

Somehow you decided that was a defence of the codex and compared it to terminators not having balefire tomes. Likewise you claimed it was due to "what was in the box" which is also incorrect.

They absolutely DO have restrictions, what are you babbling about?

I can see why many here picked chaos as their faction, just angry at the world!