Tyranid Codex rumours (first three full datasheets pg23)

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**Platuan4th**

Shadow Walker wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.

Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.

Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.

You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.

Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.

**Shadow Walker**

Platuan4th wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.

Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.

Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.

You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.

Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.

Yeah, that is very possible. Especially after Harlequins weapons change. There will be only 2 stats - 1 for Tyranid ranged biomorphs and 1 forTyranid close combat biomorphs so the game could be even more awesome than now

**Tyran**

The thing about Jervisation (is that the correct term?) is that it is the new phase of GW's box only rules.

Thankfully for us, most of our kits come with all the weapons we need, the only major exception being the Hive Tyrant kit (which does mean we may lose some weapons there).

Both Raveners and Termagants come with all weapons in the kit, so I doubt we will see Jervisation.

**Skywave**

xttz wrote:
Some minor updates from the guy on Reddit who has been leaking now verified details for Eldar, Tau, and other codexes over the last few months:

Replying to comment about Tyranid codex leaks.

Lol You like attacks? You get LOTS of attacks You like hitting better? You get to hit better

You better not have made nothing but devil gaunts... Cause you might as well throw them in the bin and take fleshborers

Hope you also put impalers on your hive guard...
Although the shock is amazing against vehicles

That's good, one of my hope for the Nids is to have more attacks, always baffled me how having 4 arms gave so little attacks

Hope it's good.

And I have a bit of every type of Gants so I should be good if the flavor of month changes with the new book too!

**EviscerationPlague**

Platuan4th wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
NAVARRO wrote:
Shadow Walker wrote:
Part of the reason I want new Raveners models is that I hate how they have the same ranged weapons as Warriors but somehow they are completely inside their bodies when Warriors need to carry sizeable ones. If i remember first Raveners had to carry their devourers etc. I would like them to either have their ranged options removed or made visible or changed to something else like 'thorax bio hive'' etc. which would have much shorter range etc. than Warrior weapons.

Reason number one I dislike weapons on hands designs on Nids... Looks awful and not something I imagine a constant evolving biocreature to have. The fact some look like pistols is even worse.

Integrated with body and design should be the way to go.

You misunderstood me. I am not against integrated weapons. I am against integrated weapons pretending to be the very same weapons that are not integrated.

Oh, don't worry, they'll just make them all have one "Ravener Torso Weapon" statline because Jervis' kids can't tell the visual clues apart for each type.

Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or

**Voss**

EviscerationPlague wrote:

Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or

Yeah, you're giving them too much credit. They'll do 'tyranid weapons' for one thing, free choice of weapons for warriors (because those are all in the box), and the limited jigsaw for something else.

**DarkStarSabre**

Voss wrote:
EviscerationPlague wrote:

Either that or you get hit with the Plague Marine datasheet. GW is either/or

Yeah, you're giving them too much credit. They'll do 'tyranid weapons' for one thing, free choice of weapons for warriors (because those are all in the box), and the limited jigsaw for something else.

Tyranid Weapon Raveners, Free choice Warriors, Limited Jigsaw Tyrants. It's coming.

**H.B.M.C.**

Tyran wrote:
The thing about Jervisation (is that the correct term?)

Very close:

Jervis [Jer-viss] Jer-vised, Jer-vis-i-fy, Jer-vis-i-fied, Jer-vis-i-fi-ca-tion
–verb
1. to remove options inherent in a list. // 2. to reduce existing sub-lists into a single list. // 3. To triple (or more) the amount of Special Characters in a Codex. // 4. To take away. // 5. To give what isn't wanted nor needed.

Origin: Mid-1980's, England, Nottingham

Synonyms: Bland, Blandify, Codex: Dark Angels (4th Edition)

Antonyms: Codex: Chaos Space Marines (3.5 Edition)

**NinthMusketeer**

Exalted!

**Sureshot05**

Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.

**Eldarsif**

Sureshot05 wrote:
Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.

I agree on both accounts(unification and the weird contradiction of it).

Personally I like the unification of many weapon stats(at least where there is abundance of them) is that it means I can model for the rule of cool without having to accept the fact that what I found was cool is now utter garbage and will be for the next 2-3 editions.

I just wish they had done unification on the Death Guard melee weapons.

**NinthMusketeer**

Funnysad that it's taken for granted that GW can't be trusted to simply balance bespoke weapon stats.

**xttz**

From Tyranids Discord - allegedly confirmed (not written) by a verified playtester

New rumour-leaks.
Synaptic Links are changing to once per game effects that work on every unit within 6" of a Synapse Unit.
- Zoanthropes give 4++ to Synapse and 5++ to non-Synapse.
- All other units have changed Links.

A lot of buffs trigger off the Synapse keyword (Warriors are beasts, apparently)

Unit Changes:
Swarmlord - Loses Hive Commander and 3++. Gains Chapter Master Re-rolls and gives a unit Obsec.
Hive Tyrant - Captain Re-rolls aura.
Tervigon - +1 to hit for Termagants in range (don't know what). If there is a 15+ model Termagant unit within 1" of her she is untargetable.

Termagants - Devourers are **** now. Fleshborers go to Assault 1 S5 AP1 D1
Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5 base. Access to -1D strat in all phases. Can get to A4 S8 AP2 D2.

Wargear Changes:
Boneswords - S+2 AP2 D2
Adrenal Glands - +1S/+1Mv

Hive Fleet Changes:
Leviathan - 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
Kronos - extra AP at half range

Gorgon gets some variety of Poison weapons.
Named Hive Fleets get 1-2 traits +1 customisable trait from a list.
Gargoyles to Troops
Genestealers to Elites
Rippers to Fast Attack
Leviathan far and away the best pick, apparently.

**Lord Blackscale**

xttz wrote:
From Tyranids Discord - allegedly confirmed (not written) by a verified playtester

I hate almost all of that.

**Nevelon**

I like the leviathan transhuman vs the 6+++.

Little skeptical over the slot swaps, but could make it work. Hope stealers get a buff to make them feel more elite if they are going there.

Interesting to see what shows up in the end.

**SamusDrake**

Genestealers no longer troops? No thanks.

**Nevelon**

I get loosing rippers as troops. They are a minimal investment slot filler.

But every nid player should have buckets of stealers that were filling the role. What to replace them with?

Moving gargoyles to troops makes it the one stop gaunt shop. Shooty, stabby, and flappy. What flavor do you want? Thematically, I get the appeal.

**Tyran**

I can see Genestealers being moved to Elites.
Lore wise, Genestealers have never been the meat of Tyranid swarms.

But Rippers as fast attack doesn't make much sense IMHO.

**DarkStarSabre**

Sureshot05 wrote:
Personally i prefer the blending of melee weapon types. Both for speed but also because it means i can convert whatever grubbly weapon monstrosity i wish and it is legal in rules with no count as ambiguity.
My issue is that it appears to be melee only whereas range still has the fidelity. This seems an inherent contradiction.

I'll be honest. I have no problems giving units a 'combined' profile like this. It's a nice blanket rule that compensates for kits not having all the options, older miniatures existing etc.

But it needs to be consistent. All or nothing, as it were.

The problem we have with this is....well, quite simply the fact there are armies (GSC) where 3 different units can have the EXACT same weapon options but different profiles! And that's a problem. If you want to simplify things then WYSIWYG is an incredibly important thing to consider here. Oversimplifying and ignoring that is contradictory....

If Unit X can be armed with specific weapons then Unit Y, also armed with the exact same weapons should NOT be given a blanket profile.

Automatically Appended Next Post:

xttz wrote:

Leviathan - 1-2 TransNid on non-synapse creatures. 1-3 TransNid on synapse creatures.
.

....That might just be good enough to tempt away from Crusher Stampede. I mean, Crusher Stampede lists can still be played as normal Fleet lists, just there wasn't any bonuses worth a damn compared but that...that is tasty with a Warrior troop core.

**NinthMusketeer**

I always felt rippers as troops that didn't count towards force org requirements was a good way to go.

Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.

Stealers definitely make sense to me as elites more than troops.

**Tyran**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I always felt rippers as troops that didn't count towards force org requirements was a good way to go.

Troops do bring a lot of benefits that I don't think Rippers should have. I would have put them as Elites that don't take FOC slots.

**DarkStarSabre**

Tyran wrote:

But Rippers as fast attack doesn't make much sense IMHO.

Unless they're coming with Deep Strike as standard now.

**xttz**

Tyran wrote:
I can see Genestealers being moved to Elites.
Lore wise, Genestealers have never been the meat of Tyranid swarms.

But Rippers as fast attack doesn't make much sense IMHO.

If they're keeping the deep strike ability then I think it kinda does. With the Parasite of Mortrex looking likely to happen I wonder if we'll see some creative use of Ripper swarms spawning around enemy units

Spoiler:

.

Meanwhile Gargoyles are the classic Tyranid horde unit for swamping objectives. Having a highly mobile (and presumably morale-immune) Troop/obsec unit looks like fun.

**H.B.M.C.**

Warriors are Beasts?

**DarkStarSabre**

H.B.M.C. wrote:
Warriors are Beasts?

Not Beasts as in unit type but as in absolute beasts for what they are getting.

Between Leviathan's TransNid on Synapse, access to a -1 D strat, buffed Strength and Toughness, buffed Boneswords and the way Synapse apparently is key for things now the Warrior went from being an okay midline to a beast of a unit.

**SamusDrake**

Given that warriors are more beefy, well equiped and suited to leading swarms, I'd put them as elites way before genestealers.

**Wha-Mu-077**

NinthMusketeer wrote:

Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.

Same, to be honest. I wonder why they did away with it.

**Shadow Walker**

Tyranid Warriors - S5/T5. Finally!
Genestealers as Elites. Makes sense.
Rippers as Fast Attack. Mixed feelings.

**silverstu**

NinthMusketeer wrote:
I always felt rippers as troops that didn't count towards force org requirements was a good way to go.

Gargoyles as troops... I miss when warlord choice could change forge org slots. A flyrant with gargoyle troops works for me, but as generic, eh. I can see the appeal though.

Stealers definitely make sense to me as elites more than troops.

Theres another rumour block which says gargs aren't troops but can move there with a flyrant as warlord. Also Shrikes are coming as a kit with lots of weapon options like warriors- so flying circus is back if these rumours hold up..

Rippers as fast attack make sense if they have deep strike as standard.
Most of this I can't really understand as I haven't played since 5th but there does seem to be a bit of flavour from 2nd/3rd/4th editions in there. Fleshborers always had higher strength than Devs so it was more of a choice and they are the classic Gant weapon so they need a reason to be taken.

**BorderCountess**

silverstu wrote:
Fleshborers always had higher strength than Devs so it was more of a choice and they are the classic Gant weapon so they need a reason to be taken.

In my view, the reason to take them is because they're free instead increasing the cost of the model by 40%. In my son's opinion, it was so that he'd have something to spawn out of the Tervigon in Narrative Play games.