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I was always wary about building units over 5-man due to Venom Cannons and the like...now, it seems, Tyranids get hilariously efficient "elite-horde" killing weapons in every unit now. I like it.

 Redemption wrote:
"Huge, tough, and very stupid"

Finally, a Tyranid organism i can relate to.

I know this is somewhat out of the blue, but is there anyone else who was stupid enough to build venom crawlers instead of zoanthropes and is a tiny bit excited if they get more usable somehow? :-)

 licensedfool wrote:
I know this is somewhat out of the blue, but is there anyone else who was stupid enough to build venom crawlers instead of zoanthropes and is a tiny bit excited if they get more usable somehow? :-)

I'm really curious how you built venom crawlers (a CSM unit) from the Zoanthrope/Neurothrope/Venomthrope kit.

Doh, I play too many armies for my own good ^^ i meant the venomthropes of course

 licensedfool wrote:
I know this is somewhat out of the blue, but is there anyone else who was stupid enough to build venom crawlers instead of zoanthropes and is a tiny bit excited if they get more usable somehow? :-)

In an ideal world, every unit would be usable and have a place on the table.

Never got around to picking up the zoanthrope kit, but it’s pretty high on my list. I didn’t even realize is was a duel kit.

The venomthrope version of the kit is pretty fun. It's a hundred leagues better than the finecast venomthrope, may it be digested for 1,000 years.

 Nevelon wrote:
Would it have killem them to just gove it a flat 8 shots? Although by giving it a random number and blast, you can’t just shoot it if engaged in CC.

They could've also just put it under abilities that it can't shoot that weapon in melee.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Would it have killem them to just gove it a flat 8 shots? Although by giving it a random number and blast, you can’t just shoot it if engaged in CC.

They could've also just put it under abilities that it can't shoot that weapon in melee.

I mean, does anything stop a weapon without random shot count from being Blast?

It's purely detrimental, but to my knowledge, you can do that.

There are a ton of minimal impact rules like that and they really slow down gameplay.

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Would it have killem them to just gove it a flat 8 shots? Although by giving it a random number and blast, you can’t just shoot it if engaged in CC.

They could've also just put it under abilities that it can't shoot that weapon in melee.

That would have been nice. Looking at the big guy, he seems the sort of thing you should be able to tie up in CC without getting shot. The blast is a way to get that without special bespoke rules.

It’s just a little irritating that we need to roll for shots all the time with little impact. Slows thing down for little return.

 Nevelon wrote:

EviscerationPlague wrote:

 Nevelon wrote:
Would it have killem them to just gove it a flat 8 shots? Although by giving it a random number and blast, you can’t just shoot it if engaged in CC.

They could've also just put it under abilities that it can't shoot that weapon in melee.

That would have been nice. Looking at the big guy, he seems the sort of thing you should be able to tie up in CC without getting shot. The blast is a way to get that without special bespoke rules.

It’s just a little irritating that we need to roll for shots all the time with little impact. Slows thing down for little return.

Quite frankly it would've been a good weapon and profile at 7 shots.

The bit that I'm less impressed by is the wording in the special rule about ignoring cover - would it have killed them to have made it simpler and stating "half its Move or less", so you don't have to worry about moving a tiny fraction under, say, 3.5" to still have the ability trigger?

 Dysartes wrote:
The bit that I'm less impressed by is the wording in the special rule about ignoring cover - would it have killed them to have made it simpler and stating "half its Move or less", so you don't have to worry about moving a tiny fraction under, say, 3.5" to still have the ability trigger?

I suppose it's GW trying to make it absolutely loophole-proof, as is the case now we're on another level of RAW-dickery.

Leman Russes have been dealing with that for 5 years now.

There is a point where adding clarity turns into accommodating rule-lawering TFGs.

 NinthMusketeer wrote:
There is a point where adding clarity turns into accommodating rule-lawering TFGs.

It's more trying to prevent rules lawyering nonsense. Let's not forget that this game has a history of rather insane interpretations of the rules from members of the community (to include people on this site) due to how things were worded less precisely in the past.

Not all were done seriously, but the less TFG enabling via vague rules language the better.

Odd to see Devourers with Brain leech worms vanish from the Winged Hive Tyrant.

Still not as odd as Fleshborers now being base strength 5.

Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

 stonehorse wrote:
Odd to see Devourers with Brain leech worms vanish from the Winged Hive Tyrant.

Not in the kit, so... sucked into the warp. Mixing and matching kits is simply forbidden. Forbidden!!!

Still not as odd as Fleshborers now being base strength 5.

That, I would love to know the rationale on. Because it isn't just S5. Its also +6" range AND 1AP. Its a huge bump for very bottom tier infantry, that AFAIK, no one expected or ever asked for. The lethality escalation is purely internal.

Voss wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Odd to see Devourers with Brain leech worms vanish from the Winged Hive Tyrant.

Not in the kit, so... sucked into the warp. Mixing and matching kits is simply forbidden. Forbidden!!!

Still not as odd as Fleshborers now being base strength 5.

That, I would love to know the rationale on. Because it isn't just S5. Its also +6" range AND 1AP. Its a huge bump for very bottom tier infantry, that AFAIK, no one expected or ever asked for. The lethality escalation is purely internal.

So much for conversions, oh well. Just thought, doesn't the kit come with a pair of the big Deathspitters? Seems they are missing as an option too.

The Fleshborer changes just show how the game is getting out if hand. Yes, Strength 5 Fleshborers were possible back in 3rd edition, but they were not standard, and they were very expensive...and they were still Range12".

 stonehorse wrote:

Voss wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:
Odd to see Devourers with Brain leech worms vanish from the Winged Hive Tyrant.

Not in the kit, so... sucked into the warp. Mixing and matching kits is simply forbidden. Forbidden!!!

Still not as odd as Fleshborers now being base strength 5.

That, I would love to know the rationale on. Because it isn't just S5. Its also +6" range AND 1AP. Its a huge bump for very bottom tier infantry, that AFAIK, no one expected or ever asked for. The lethality escalation is purely internal.

So much for conversions, oh well. Just thought, doesn't the kit come with a pair of the big Deathspitters? Seems they are missing as an option too.

It does not. They're exclusive to the carnifex kit at this point.
There was a period of time (because they weren't originally part of either kit) that you could buy that sprue separately, but then they just included it with the carnifex.

Amusingly the current 'carnifex brood' deal on the website doesn't show the devourers or deathspitters either (which tells you how old those pics are), but the text mentions them, and you can see them in the pictures of the 'thornback brood' (but not the screamer-killers either)

It will be curious to see if those 'in name only' variants survive.

Just occurs to me, I have an on-foot Hive Tyrant with twin Death Spitters.

Cool...

Voss wrote:
That, I would love to know the rationale on.

They really want people to take Termagants.

I mean, look at the Combat Patrol 'Nids are getting.

 H.B.M.C. wrote:
Just occurs to me, I have an on-foot Hive Tyrant with twin Death Spitters.

Cool...

Voss wrote:
That, I would love to know the rationale on.

They really want people to take Termagants.

I mean, look at the Combat Patrol 'Nids are getting.

Right, but that's encouraging people NOT to buy the overpriced boxes of termagants. Just the combat patrols. That's nearly a $100 (US) that they're encouraging people not to spend.

 stonehorse wrote:


Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

chaos0xomega wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

 stonehorse wrote:

chaos0xomega wrote:

 stonehorse wrote:


Edit.
Think the Scything Talons only add 1 additional attack per set, not per Scything Talon. Dual Boneswords grants the same bonus, so I take from that that dual weapons bonus is the same across the board for Tyranids... shame Rending Claws (which also come as a pair on the models) don't get an additional attack, but that is down to game balance I guess.

Reading is fundamental. The weapon options are "dual boneswords" or "2 scything talons". "Dual boneswords" are a single weapon. "2 Scything Talons" are, in fact, two weapons. Both Dual Boneswords and Scything Talons have the same bonus text, as you noted, except you have 2 scything talons vs 1 dual boneswords, thus when it says you get an extra attack with "this weapon", you have 2 scything talon weapons eligible to make the aforementioned additional attack - and therefore get 2 extra attacks - vs just 1 dual bonesword which can only grant you one additional attack with that weapon..

Think you may be over thinking this, GW aren't the best when it comes to explaining their rules, remember the back & forth debate about how many weapons a Monstrous Creature could use in Overwatch due to the wording say may make an attack?

There's really not much to overthink here.
'Scything Talon' is a weapon. You get two of them. Each one grants an extra attack, worded the same as lightning claws (minus the re-roll wounds bit).
Do space marines with two lightning claws not get two extra attacks?

With how Scything Talons seem to work now, that means that Hormogaunts will have at least 3 attacks per model. If they remain cheap, and relatively fast, they very well could be decent this edition.

Voss wrote:
There was a period of time (because they weren't originally part of either kit) that you could buy that sprue separately, but then they just included it with the carnifex.

Amusingly the current 'carnifex brood' deal on the website doesn't show the devourers or deathspitters either (which tells you how old those pics are), but the text mentions them, and you can see them in the pictures of the 'thornback brood' (but not the screamer-killers either)

It will be curious to see if those 'in name only' variants survive.

Deathspitters and Devourers have been in the Carnifex kit since day 1. It's on the same sprue as all the heads.

 cuda1179 wrote:
With how Scything Talons seem to work now, that means that Hormogaunts will have at least 3 attacks per model. If they remain cheap, and relatively fast, they very well could be decent this edition.

Oh ya. I assume they get the 3-rank-fighting ability too. Which would be sweet. Hope they keep their 6” pile too

EDIT: So pretty much everything is leaking on Discord right now.

Trygon Prime has 12, TWELVE attacks. So I was right...