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Here is my ulthwe strands list. I've tried working out a few lists. my first build leant into fire dragons in a falcon and scorpions doing phantasm shenanigans if they didn't get first. much more of and alpha list. this is more toned down in ralation to pure damage output, but it Plays the mission way better. It can harass with suppressive fire, will of Assyrian and stuff like that. the list is very resilient through 5+++ vs mw's, 6++ and heavy focus on strands. its good in the psychic phase and packs a mw machine in the doom seer to compensate for the lack of firepower compared to my first iteration.
my question here is; would it make sense to swop guide on eldrad for focus will? that way I could setup a super smite on a +2 every turn on the doom seer followed by executioner. I mean, theres really only one good guide target (or at least only one amazing one) in the list and thats the spears. also, focus will would make doom every turn a lot more reliable. He usually ends up casting three with the strat so I feel its ok to lean into focus will, maybe? guide is just so good, though.
btw this list performs very well. its well rounded, decent shooting, two very brutal melee threats and an amazing cp-economy. has speed too and scores very well.
(edited a thousand times for spelling)
I like this list, it's along the lines of what I've been running. A few suggestions based on my experiences:
I think Banshees work better as two units of 5 (one with Piercing Strikes, one Nerve Shredding with the relic). This way they trade up much better when you launch them into the enemy.
Psychic powers: Definitely get Focus Will in, but don't drop Guide! I'd actually drop fortune off Eldrad for it. Don't try and make T3 1W models tanky, just max killiness by guaranteeing Doom and Guide.
Also drop the Weeping Stone off your Farseer and Take the Ulthwe Helm instead. Take Crushing Orb as the bonus power from it. Now your Farseer can get +2 to cast off Eldrad, spend a CP for 3 casts, and do Smite, Executioner, Crushing Orb to pile on the mortals.
I like the Weeping Stone if I've got a spare Relic slot, but it's a bit of a luxury when you've already got 2 fate dice rerolls from farseers -effectively taking you from 8 attempts to get what you want, up to 9, which is minor. You could give this to your Warlock Skyrunner though.
Finally, as you've got Baharroth, Eldrad, and Swooping Hawks you could try and retool a lot of your units to make them your To The Last picks. I go back and forth on this with my lists. Those 3 as TTL is incredibly strong, but does mean you can't upgrade your vehicles, have to split your Banshees, only take 3 Spears, and take Extra Hawks.
This message was edited 4 times. Last update was at 2022/03/18 12:33:13
Damn, Thanks a ton. Super good points. I want the Stones, though. Anything to manipulate those strands.
Automatically Appended Next Post: About strands: i feel that mechanic is being regarded as a somewhat random win more bonus. I dont agree. I feel its a decisive tool in so many clutch situations. Yeah, you dont have complete control over what you get. But you Can deffinetely manipulate the final result in a certain direction the list needs to be able to branch out every now and then and modify the strategy of a turn. and if your build is constructed with that in mind strands just makes the moves you do much more efficient. I feel the mechanic calls for all round generalist builds and makes that archetype (that i feel is often weaker than more fokused and even skewed lists) a bit stronger. The generalist build can see what strands it gets and then aim at solving the turns problems whit assets that fit those sixes. My build can do that. I have a few mobile charge threats that can benefit from adv/charge strands, strong Psykers that can benifit from those and some hard shots each turn that can make those hit and wound sixes count. And saves is what it’s all about. Those sixes win games.
I’m not saying it’s perfect. But it works and it’s fun to play. Makes you think
This message was edited 2 times. Last update was at 2022/03/18 21:34:29
So I happen to have 3 vypers sitting around, plus 3 warwalkers that need to be done. Trying to decide on best weapon loadouts.
For the vypers, I figured if i wanted shuricannons I'd just take jetbikes. Same with scatterlasers (although shroud runners also enter the picture)
That leaves starcannon (underperformer), AML and brightlance.
The AML does give a bit of duality, but does neither job well. A lance is interesting as a single vyper can't be fully ignored. I know there are better platforms for all these weapons, but I've been sitting on these kits for years.
As for the warwalker, that's more interesting. I do like dual scatters for some dakka, but also think lance/AML is not too shabby either. Actually tempted to make them multi-threat and just mix and match the scatter, AML and lance.
The vyper cost the same as 2 windrider bikes, but gets more T and W, at the downside of being more susceptible to multi damage weapons. Vehicle, so pros/cons to that vs. being a bike. Without the ability to replace the chin gun you can’t make a mono-weapon build anymore, but if you were the sort of person to mix guns in a bike squad, they do that. Just a little more condensed. And by using the cheep options you keep the unit price down. How expensive do you want to go on a T5 6W model?
War walkers are more expensive but more rugged. The main question there is what kind of firepower do you need in your list?
I think for our dual heavy weapon units (Ww/Wl/vyper) I think you can build incredible amount of duality by stacking everything with BL/scat lazor
Msu with either biel tan or ulthwe puts us in a very similar paradigm to msu expert crafters. We have lost the reliability but the sheer stopping power of BL more than makes up for it imo.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: I think for our dual heavy weapon units (Ww/Wl/vyper) I think you can build incredible amount of duality by stacking everything with BL/scat lazor
Msu with either biel tan or ulthwe puts us in a very similar paradigm to msu expert crafters. We have lost the reliability but the sheer stopping power of BL more than makes up for it imo.
Vyper is no longer dual hvy weapon. Underslung has to be twin cats now.
As an aside, I'm on a bit of an autarch kick right now, just waiting for another winged model to come in to make a few more.
Currently have...
Yriel
Autarch (Iyanden) glaive, reaper launcher, aegis of eldanesh, enduring resolve.
This guy has a 2+/4++/5+++ with -1D and dropping AP of -1/-2 by 1. Funny having a tanky T3 model, lol.
Autarch, banshee blade, deathspinner, wings, mandiblasters, shard of anaris, maybe mark of incomparable hunter for possible MWs.
More of my shredder, deathspinner to soften first, then 9-11 attacks (only S4 though) with 6s to wound causing 1MW in addition.
Going to also make...
Autarch, glaive, reaper launcher, mandiblasters (basically the codex cover model), not sure on traits yet.
Autarch, glaive, fusion gun, banshee mask, Also not sure on traits.
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/20 17:32:37
Argive wrote: I think for our dual heavy weapon units (Ww/Wl/vyper) I think you can build incredible amount of duality by stacking everything with BL/scat lazor
Msu with either biel tan or ulthwe puts us in a very similar paradigm to msu expert crafters. We have lost the reliability but the sheer stopping power of BL more than makes up for it imo.
Vyper is no longer dual hvy weapon. Underslung has to be twin cats now.
As an aside, I'm on a bit of an autarch kick right now, just waiting for another winged model to come in to make a few more.
Currently have...
Yriel
Autarch (Iyanden) glaive, reaper launcher, aegis of eldanesh, enduring resolve.
This guy has a 2+/4++/5+++ with -1D and dropping AP of -1/-2 by 1. Funny having a tanky T3 model, lol.
Autarch, banshee blade, deathspinner, wings, mandiblasters, shard of anaris, maybe mark of incomparable hunter for possible MWs.
More of my shredder, deathspinner to soften first, then 9-11 attacks (only S4 though) with 6s to wound causing 1MW in addition.
Going to also make...
Autarch, glaive, reaper launcher, mandiblasters (basically the codex cover model), not sure on traits yet.
Autarch, glaive, fusion gun, banshee mask, Also not sure on traits.
If you could only pick one HQ, what would it be?
Including farseers, of course lol.
2022/03/20 18:43:36
Subject: Re:Codex Aeldari: No longer a dying race!
Im going to be running falochus wing/falcolns swiftness foot tarch with glaive and reaper launcher. (Might drop for fusion gun) havent decided if mandi blaster or banshee mask.
Auto advancing 20" foot model that can hide in a tank that deals mw over each unit he oves over together with eldrad, farseer, spirit seer and two wraithseers should mean i have MW for days
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Argive wrote: Im going to be running falochus wing/falcolns swiftness foot tarch with glaive and reaper launcher. (Might drop for fusion gun) havent decided if mandi blaster or banshee mask.
Auto advancing 20" foot model that can hide in a tank that deals mw over each unit he oves over together with eldrad, farseer, spirit seer and two wraithseers should mean i have MW for days
Of note, Falchou's Wing Mortal Wounds ability only affects a single unit the Autarch moved over, not multiple units. Not sure if that will change your build decision.
No earth shattering, thought provoking quote. I'm just someone who was introduced to 40K in the late 80's and it's become a lifelong hobby.
Have you guys heard Jack harpster from aow put together his list on YouTube? Such good analysis. He is going for the strands ulthwe archetype that i have also toyed with. And he actually ends up with something very similar to my list. Except for the indirect. I focus on bright lances instead. Also, i hadbt thought about using quicken to help with psychic secondaries. Love his approach to list building.
Niiru wrote: Am I right in the reading that if you add in a harlequins patrol into craftworlds, there's no way to get any relics or traits on the harlequins HQ?
Edit: I mean relics only. Traits you can get with the champions strat.
Treasures of the Aeldari also works on clowns
But, on an other topic, I'm starting to think twice about Black Reapers as a heavy support choice. Been running some "trials" (same base size and stats but not having purchased the models ) against my brother running my Thousand Sons.
The Reapers are stuck at 5 per units and are really fragile and even hidden in a serpent once they are out they are quickly shot off the table. Plus the no moving and shooting without a -1 really hurts. You can guide them but it's a big investment. At least they are good with doom but I'd rather take a fire prism or a night spinner for a few more points (personal bias not withstanding ). Way more durable and can shoot through dense without any problem with the crystal targetting matrix.
Niiru wrote: Am I right in the reading that if you add in a harlequins patrol into craftworlds, there's no way to get any relics or traits on the harlequins HQ?
Edit: I mean relics only. Traits you can get with the champions strat.
Treasures of the Aeldari also works on clowns
Except you can only select to give a harlequin relic, if your warlord is a harlequin.
So yes, you could pick your harlequin HQ to be the warlord, and then give your free relic plus a bonus one with the strat...
But then that just changes the question to "there's no way to give the craftworld detachment any relics?"
Niiru wrote: Am I right in the reading that if you add in a harlequins patrol into craftworlds, there's no way to get any relics or traits on the harlequins HQ?
Edit: I mean relics only. Traits you can get with the champions strat.
Treasures of the Aeldari also works on clowns
But, on an other topic, I'm starting to think twice about Black Reapers as a heavy support choice. Been running some "trials" (same base size and stats but not having purchased the models ) against my brother running my Thousand Sons.
The Reapers are stuck at 5 per units and are really fragile and even hidden in a serpent once they are out they are quickly shot off the table. Plus the no moving and shooting without a -1 really hurts. You can guide them but it's a big investment. At least they are good with doom but I'd rather take a fire prism or a night spinner for a few more points (personal bias not withstanding ). Way more durable and can shoot through dense without any problem with the crystal targetting matrix.
Dark Reapers definitely got the big nerf bat this time around in the codex. Between their price cost, the loss of their ability to ignore all modifiers for shooting and having to basically take an Exarch power to regain their old ability AND they don't have battle focus? Eldar have a lot more options shooting wise, so you can easily give them a pass.
Niiru wrote: Am I right in the reading that if you add in a harlequins patrol into craftworlds, there's no way to get any relics or traits on the harlequins HQ?
Edit: I mean relics only. Traits you can get with the champions strat.
Treasures of the Aeldari also works on clowns
Except you can only select to give a harlequin relic, if your warlord is a harlequin.
So yes, you could pick your harlequin HQ to be the warlord, and then give your free relic plus a bonus one with the strat...
But then that just changes the question to "there's no way to give the craftworld detachment any relics?"
Weird the "example army" section (p94) of the book says you can.
Scoundrel80 wrote: Have you guys heard Jack harpster from aow put together his list on YouTube? Such good analysis. He is going for the strands ulthwe archetype that i have also toyed with. And he actually ends up with something very similar to my list. Except for the indirect. I focus on bright lances instead. Also, i hadbt thought about using quicken to help with psychic secondaries. Love his approach to list building.
I also enjoyed this but I wonder if he's a bit light on AP. Volume of fire only gets you so far against things like Custodes with shields in cover, same for crisis suits in cover.
I'm also surprised that focus will doesn't seem more popular, a +2 on your most critical powers seems like an incredible buff.
Niiru wrote: Am I right in the reading that if you add in a harlequins patrol into craftworlds, there's no way to get any relics or traits on the harlequins HQ?
Edit: I mean relics only. Traits you can get with the champions strat.
Treasures of the Aeldari also works on clowns
Except you can only select to give a harlequin relic, if your warlord is a harlequin.
So yes, you could pick your harlequin HQ to be the warlord, and then give your free relic plus a bonus one with the strat...
But then that just changes the question to "there's no way to give the craftworld detachment any relics?"
Weird the "example army" section (p94) of the book says you can.
Interesting point, you're right, it does say that.
But the stratagem says otherwise -
Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the ASURYANI or HARLEQUINS
keyword. If your WARLORD has the HARLEQUINS keyword you can select one HARLEQUINS CHARACTER model from your army. If your
WARLORD has the ASURYANI keyword, you can select one ASURYANI CHARACTER model from your army.
If your warlord is Asuryani, you can only select an Asuryani.
But the example does say otherwise, so I wonder which of these is a GW typo.
I suspect (like many things in this book) this stratagem was originally written to be more flexible, but was nerfed before printing, and noone told the writer of the example page.
Interesting point, you're right, it does say that.
But the stratagem says otherwise -
Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the ASURYANI or HARLEQUINS
keyword. If your WARLORD has the HARLEQUINS keyword you can select one HARLEQUINS CHARACTER model from your army. If your
WARLORD has the ASURYANI keyword, you can select one ASURYANI CHARACTER model from your army.
If your warlord is Asuryani, you can only select an Asuryani.
But the example does say otherwise, so I wonder which of these is a GW typo.
I suspect (like many things in this book) this stratagem was originally written to be more flexible, but was nerfed before printing, and noone told the writer of the example page.
Argive wrote: Im going to be running falochus wing/falcolns swiftness foot tarch with glaive and reaper launcher. (Might drop for fusion gun) havent decided if mandi blaster or banshee mask.
Auto advancing 20" foot model that can hide in a tank that deals mw over each unit he oves over together with Eldrad, Farseer, spirit seer and two Wraithseers should mean i have MW for days
Of note, Falchou's Wing Mortal Wounds ability only affects a single unit the Autarch moved over, not multiple units. Not sure if that will change your build decision.
Ahh I missed that. Might just spend pts on wings or something. Need to rethink the loadout, not sure what to go for.
Still think it has good value with the amount of core in my list.
AngryAngel80 wrote: I don't know, when I see awesome rules, I'm like " Baby, your rules looking so fine. Maybe I gotta add you to my first strike battalion eh ? "
Scoundrel80 wrote: Have you guys heard Jack harpster from aow put together his list on YouTube? Such good analysis. He is going for the strands ulthwe archetype that i have also toyed with. And he actually ends up with something very similar to my list. Except for the indirect. I focus on bright lances instead. Also, i hadbt thought about using quicken to help with psychic secondaries. Love his approach to list building.
I also enjoyed this but I wonder if he's a bit light on AP. Volume of fire only gets you so far against things like Custodes with shields in cover, same for crisis suits in cover.
I'm also surprised that focus will doesn't seem more popular, a +2 on your most critical powers seems like an incredible buff.
I also thought these were good vids. AoW have dismissed Focus Will in a couple of vids now and I don't get why. They are very keen on the psychic powers but seem content to risk them not going off. They know their stuff though so maybe I'm missing something.
I tried using a Quicken Warlock to pull back a psyker after performing a psychic action and it wasn't as great as I'd hoped. I found myself really wanting my powers and giving up doing an action on crucial turns. His plan seems to be to have a Farseer who's only crucial power is doom so that he can cast it after an action so it might work better than when I was giving up doom or guide.
I've found it difficult to get efficient anti-tank into lists and have gone the way they did here quite often: take loads of dakka. Double lance War Walkers seem ok. Wave serpent lances mean giving up on TTL. I actually tried a unit of 10 Fire Dragons with 16" range in a game and they were great as I was able to use Fire and Fade to move back 7" to safety and got 3 good volleys out of them. That seems like an incredibly risky strategy though.
Yeah, fitting anti tank is surprisingly tough taking into consideration how many great data sheets we have.
Automatically Appended Next Post: Btw the way I read traveling players we can include a patrol of Harley’s and they get every special rule. Even luck dice? But when I read the luck dice rule it says “if every unit in your army has the Harley keyword” so it doesn’t work? What supersedes what?
This message was edited 1 time. Last update was at 2022/03/21 16:33:28
Scoundrel80 wrote: Have you guys heard Jack harpster from aow put together his list on YouTube? Such good analysis. He is going for the strands ulthwe archetype that i have also toyed with. And he actually ends up with something very similar to my list. Except for the indirect. I focus on bright lances instead. Also, i hadbt thought about using quicken to help with psychic secondaries. Love his approach to list building.
I also enjoyed this but I wonder if he's a bit light on AP. Volume of fire only gets you so far against things like Custodes with shields in cover, same for crisis suits in cover.
I'm also surprised that focus will doesn't seem more popular, a +2 on your most critical powers seems like an incredible buff.
I also thought these were good vids. AoW have dismissed Focus Will in a couple of vids now and I don't get why. They are very keen on the psychic powers but seem content to risk them not going off. They know their stuff though so maybe I'm missing something.
I tried using a Quicken Warlock to pull back a psyker after performing a psychic action and it wasn't as great as I'd hoped. I found myself really wanting my powers and giving up doing an action on crucial turns. His plan seems to be to have a Farseer who's only crucial power is doom so that he can cast it after an action so it might work better than when I was giving up doom or guide.
I've found it difficult to get efficient anti-tank into lists and have gone the way they did here quite often: take loads of dakka. Double lance War Walkers seem ok. Wave serpent lances mean giving up on TTL. I actually tried a unit of 10 Fire Dragons with 16" range in a game and they were great as I was able to use Fire and Fade to move back 7" to safety and got 3 good volleys out of them. That seems like an incredibly risky strategy though.
Casting focus will on eldrad and getting up to four casts with that sweet +2 bonus just seems like a big win to me.
Sarigar wrote: -Saedeths.
-Traveling Players.
-Luck of Laughing God.No Luck Dice if taking detachment of Harlequins with a Craftworld detachment.
It is a bit wordy, but you get all the Harlequins rules minus Luck Dice from the three above areas to reference.
yup. makes sense. and they dont have strands obviously, so they will be pretty difficult to get rerolls for. what ever. I still like them. im not sure they do much, that CW units can't solve. that said, the trickery of combined CW and harley rules is something I need to study : )
has there been any succesful soup builds of off the new book yet? any obvious tech that I need to be aware of.
Hi guys, does someone have some alternative models ti suggest, for the Phoenix lords waiting for a new GW resculpts?
I plan to buy the new ones but we only have two of them for now .
I managed to do a Baharroth conversion that I'm pretty pleased with by combining a load of old metal Exarchs. I didn't want to make too much effort in case we get a second wave of new models.
I made a thread in YMDC to discuss how Battle Focus moves actually work as it doesn't seem to be as obvious to me as it is for most people. Drop in and vote in the poll if you can as it's a pretty fundamental thing to get right.
Moosatronic Warrior wrote: I managed to do a Baharroth conversion that I'm pretty pleased with by combining a load of old metal Exarchs. I didn't want to make too much effort in case we get a second wave of new models.
I made a thread in YMDC to discuss how Battle Focus moves actually work as it doesn't seem to be as obvious to me as it is for most people. Drop in and vote in the poll if you can as it's a pretty fundamental thing to get right.
That's funny, me too I've found an old exarch today and I'm thinking about how to use him as base for Baharroth: D
I'm curious do you have a pic of your model? Maybe It could gives me some ispiration, as you I dont' want to put so much effort on it because sooner or later GW will take out the new models, but I need something for play them in the wait.
the list needs to be able to branch out every now and then and modify the strategy of a turn. and if your build is constructed with that in mind strands just makes the moves you do much more efficient. I feel the mechanic calls for all round generalist builds and makes that archetype (that i feel is often weaker than more fokused and even skewed lists) a bit stronger. The generalist build can see what strands it gets and then aim at solving the turns problems whit assets that fit those sixes. My build can do that. I have a few mobile charge threats that can benefit from adv/charge strands, strong Psykers that can benifit from those and some hard shots each turn that can make those hit and wound sixes count. And saves is what it’s all about. Those sixes win games.
Ultramarines, 3rd Co. and friends, 16k+ 
4k 
2k Points
Competition Index
Eldar- 4436 pts
) against my brother running my Thousand Sons.
). Way more durable and can shoot through dense without any problem with the crystal targetting matrix.
