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An autarch with wings could be a good base for baharroth

Drukhari scourges are pretty cheap and you can probably make 5 hawks and Bahrroth from 2 boxes (I think you get 3 of the feather wings per box).
Was planning to do that but have too many projects and was thinking spiders over hawks anyway (have to figure out how to kitbash spiders).

I don't mind kitbashing PLs I just don't know who I want in my lists.

The D-Scythe buff to 12" and assault D6, blast seems pretty big to me. Deep striking a blob of 10 is expensive but they pack a huge punch instantly and are tougher to shift.

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Interesting point, you're right, it does say that.

But the stratagem says otherwise -

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the ASURYANI or HARLEQUINS
keyword. If your WARLORD has the HARLEQUINS keyword you can select one HARLEQUINS CHARACTER model from your army. If your
WARLORD has the ASURYANI keyword, you can select one ASURYANI CHARACTER model from your army.

If your warlord is Asuryani, you can only select an Asuryani.

But the example does say otherwise, so I wonder which of these is a GW typo.

I suspect (like many things in this book) this stratagem was originally written to be more flexible, but was nerfed before printing, and noone told the writer of the example page.

One more errata for the pile

You can give the free one for your army to either. strategem needs to be same as your warlord

 Leth wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Interesting point, you're right, it does say that.

But the stratagem says otherwise -

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the ASURYANI or HARLEQUINS
keyword. If your WARLORD has the HARLEQUINS keyword you can select one HARLEQUINS CHARACTER model from your army. If your
WARLORD has the ASURYANI keyword, you can select one ASURYANI CHARACTER model from your army.

If your warlord is Asuryani, you can only select an Asuryani.

But the example does say otherwise, so I wonder which of these is a GW typo.

I suspect (like many things in this book) this stratagem was originally written to be more flexible, but was nerfed before printing, and noone told the writer of the example page.

One more errata for the pile

You can give the free one for your army to either. strategem needs to be same as your warlord

First thing I checked ! The "treasures of the aeldari relics" rule (p84) states that if your army is led by a <Craftworld> Character you can give the relevant craftworld relic to a <Craftworld> character. But on the "Relics" page (p114) the Asuryani or Harlequin Keyword caveat is added.

Did none proofread the damned book ?!

 Leth wrote:

 DreadfullyHopeful wrote:

Niiru wrote:

Interesting point, you're right, it does say that.

But the stratagem says otherwise -

Use this Stratagem before the battle, when you are mustering your army, if your WARLORD has the ASURYANI or HARLEQUINS
keyword. If your WARLORD has the HARLEQUINS keyword you can select one HARLEQUINS CHARACTER model from your army. If your
WARLORD has the ASURYANI keyword, you can select one ASURYANI CHARACTER model from your army.

If your warlord is Asuryani, you can only select an Asuryani.

But the example does say otherwise, so I wonder which of these is a GW typo.

I suspect (like many things in this book) this stratagem was originally written to be more flexible, but was nerfed before printing, and noone told the writer of the example page.

One more errata for the pile

You can give the free one for your army to either. strategem needs to be same as your warlord

RAW this is not true. Though in fairness, the rulebook does disagree with itself a couple of times.

Phoenix Lord wrote:
That's funny, me too I've found an old exarch today and I'm thinking about how to use him as base for Baharroth: D
I'm curious do you have a pic of your model? Maybe It could gives me some ispiration, as you I dont' want to put so much effort on it because sooner or later GW will take out the new models, but I need something for play them in the wait.

Niiru wrote:


RAW this is not true. Though in fairness, the rulebook does disagree with itself a couple of times.

Did you read the relics page? Because RAW it’s clear as day.

If army is lead by asuryani or harlequins warlord, you can give a relic to an asurayani or harlequins character. Page 114

How do people feel about Dire Avenger exarchs?

I picked up the free mini of the month when they were handing out DAs, but haven’t built him yet. Right now I have

8 basic avengers
1 sword/pistol exarch
1 duel cat exarch
and one guy magnetized at the waist to be either another basic trooper, or a sword/shield exarch.

The only option I don’t have built is a glave. Looking at the stats, it’s pretty nice, but the sword gets to skip the whole armor/invuln thing, which is also pretty good. The stabby options seem differently good to me. Glaive is probably better at killing troop looking things, sword for cutting open more protected things.

Is the duel cat just so much better then the other options I should just put together another one of him?

Last option is to just build another basic guy so I can stuff 2x6 man squads into my falcons to drop somewhere downrange and light up the backfield. Although thinking about it, probably not worth exposing myself to blast just for one more guy shooting. Probably better using the empty seat for someone else.

The shield is the only thing gear that costs points. +5 to boost the invuln up a step to a 4++. Not for the unit anymore. Still, on an exarch with a power, it’s working on 3W, so might actually get to make a few saves with it.

Compounding the gear choice is the new powers. None of them seemed particularly locked to the weapons. But while we’re on the topic, thoughts?

Defensive stance seems very niche. How often are you going to be alive in CC and able to shoot? Seems like it would be better to spend a CP on feigned retreat if that kind of situation came up and save the 20 points.

Shredding fire seems decent. Extra pen on a 5+ with the volume of shots they kick out is going to generate a lot of extra AP hits. Only going to be relevant on armored targets, as the guns are base -2. But being able to just cut through 3+ saves is kinda sweet. But at 25 points, also kinda pricy.

Stand firm for ObSec and +1 Ld doesn’t seem a bad choice for 10 points. Nothing fancy, but scoring objectives is how you get victory points, so never a bad thing.

Given how squishy avengers are (or how killy the game in general is), I always just run then with dual cats. This gives them the most oomph when they fire. I don't generally expect them to survive much return fire or assault. The CC weapons also seem like waste, since avengers just don't punch hard enough.

In the list I'm trying out this weekend, I run:
10 avengers, dual cats on exarch, shredding fire
10 avengers, dual cats on exarch, stand firm

With avengers I think dual catapult is clearly the strongest choice.
I think the obsec power is great and a steal at 10pts. The big AP on 5+ is decent but I'm not sure if I want to spend 25 PTS, of course YMMV.
Six man's can be good for actions, which avengers can do whilst still doing the dakka, which is nice.

I’ve been thinking about how crazy a heavy shuriken build with hail of doom and probably masterful shots.

Auto wounding on sixes almost seem silly strong with that vollume of fire. Has any one here seen a list that goes all the way on that strategy?

Avengers, jet bikes, and a lot of other units seem just so strong with this. Even something like 3 warwalkers with six cannons seems at least remotely tasty.

Or am I overrating the mechanic? Might be. Haven’t tried it.

Moosatronic Warrior wrote:

Phoenix Lord wrote:
That's funny, me too I've found an old exarch today and I'm thinking about how to use him as base for Baharroth: D
I'm curious do you have a pic of your model? Maybe It could gives me some ispiration, as you I dont' want to put so much effort on it because sooner or later GW will take out the new models, but I need something for play them in the wait.

Nice job, I like It.

I suspect Baharroth is going to be nerfed... how, I don't know, though I'm willing to guess that it will be something to do with the redeploy on Consolidate. Maybe change the trigger to the end of the fight phase?

With that in mind... if he looses that ability as it stands... will he be worth it anymore?

Points. Baharoth isn’t excessive in his ability to like kill stuff. He’s just too annoying to kill. Up his points, he loses a place at a certain point

SaganGree wrote:
I suspect Baharroth is going to be nerfed... how, I don't know, though I'm willing to guess that it will be something to do with the redeploy on Consolidate. Maybe change the trigger to the end of the fight phase?

With that in mind... if he looses that ability as it stands... will he be worth it anymore?

Even if his redeploy is nerfed to be the same as regular Hawks I think he’ll still find his way into a lot of lists.

He’s just really good at obnoxious primary play and damn near guaranteed 5 pts for To the Last.

I'm finally getting a chance to play with the new Eldar codex this weekend against my buddy's Tyranids, should be a pretty fun match. I'm expecting lots of transhuman warriors, zoanthropes and large bugs so here's the list I've been toying with in my spare time this week. We had joked about his old Crusher Stampede list feeling Fuegan's newfound fury so this matchup is honor bound to include Fuegan.

2000pts 10CP
Far-flung Craftworld (Mobile Fighters & Headstrong)

Patrol #1 (790pts)
Fuegan & Farseer (Guide & Executioner)
Troops - Guardian Defenders
Fire Dragons x10 (Burning Heat)
Vyper (Scatter Laser)
Wave Serpent (Star Engines)

Patrol#2 (1210pts)
Avatar of Khaine & Farseer (WL, Seer of the Shifting Vector, Faolchu's Wing, Fortune & Will of Asuryan)
Warlock (Quicken/Restrain)
Guardian Defenders
Wraithblades x6 (Swords)
Wraithguard x5
Wave Serpent x2

Since I'm leaning into Wave serpents to dump Fire Dragons & Wraith units up the board I figured Mobile Fighters would be a worthwhile investment, although it's redundant with burning heat which I may swap out to free up points. Headstrong allows the Avatar to reroll advance and charge rolls as it stomps it's way midfield. The winged Farseer and Warlock are for performing psychic actions on the objectives with a Vyper to provide character cover.

With Leviathan Synapse creatures having transhuman I opted to keep the wave serpents simple and stick with Shuricannons over something like bright lances. The 2nd Farseer is riding shotgun wih Fuegan for an obsec blob of Fire Dragons, I don't expect them to game changing but I hope they get a chance to go out in a blaze of glory. My winged Farseer, after performing psychic actions will be following the Avatar and placing Fortune + Will of Asuryan on the unstoppable Avatar. Wraith units are meant to be tanky units to tie up the midfield.

The last time I played a 2000pt Eldar list was pre-COVID so it will certainly take some getting used to. I'm excited to try Strands of Fate and see how these guys fare when facing off against the Great Devourer.

Quite an interesting list, obviously a bit of a skew list but understandable given your opponent.
I wonder if two squads of five dragons might be more flexible, giving you a couple of fusion missiles you can send out to blast something before, probably dying straight after, let's be honest. Smaller squads might even be able to battle focus behind cover.
I assume quicken is there to shunt wraiths up the board?
Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

With only three games so far, I've been mixing units in the armies to see how they interact on the table. It plays so different from my previous Craftworld lists, it has been a bit of a shock to the system. So far, I've not quite found the right synergy between the units, Craftworld traits, and my personal playstyle. But, I've gotten to the point of a few key units I really enjoy and will most likely keep them in future list variations. Below are a few (ramblings) findings after a few games. Of note, all three games used 2000 point armies and utilized 2022 GT Missions.

Dire Avengers. Whether in squads of 5 or a squad of 10, I really get a lot of value out of them. Granted, only one will end up having Objective Secured (Stand Firm), I still find their shooting, ability to perform actions/shoot, and general cheapness on Power Level to place in Strategic Reserve a very solid unit choice. In a Battalion Detachment, I have not found myself short on Elite slots and these have been worthwhile.

Fast Attack. This is the one detachment section I have found to be most crowded. Prior to the codex, it Heavy Support was the challenge and I'd often build a Spearhead detachment. Now, I keep leaning towards an Outrider detachment or just accept less Fast Attack slots to save on CP as I have enjoyed a game where I started with 12 CP. Hawks, Spiders, Windriders (Art of War video had me revisit this unit), Vypers, and for fun, Shroudrunners (I painted a unit of 3 and want to field them because they are new). At a minimum, I want four slots, but could easily utilize 6-8 slots (40-55 points for a single Vyper...I do like the potential there). I'm discovering most of my shooting, maneuvering, additional action(s) for RND really derive from the Fast Attack and this may be where I go forward in future games by trying out an Outrider + Patrol.

Dice. Wow......the amount of dice rolling increased exponentially. For years, I've grouped my dice into clusters of four so I can quickly and easily grab the requisite dice to speed the game along. In the past, I've not had multiple units rolling 30+ dice. In my games, I've had Spiders roll 54 dice, Avengers roll 33 dice, Hawks roll 40 dice, Windriders roll 30 dice. Heck, the Nightspinner feels light by only getting 2d6 dice. I'm going to set up cups with buckets of said dice precounted and just remove from the cups as necessary. Right now, my games are taking much longer and this is certainly one of the factors increasing the length of time for me to play.

Psychic Powers. I didn't think this would change much as I've included psychic powers in my Eldar since Rogue Trader; nothing really new here. After a few games, I'm discovering the powers had multiple subtle changes changing quite a bit of their utility. Adding 'Core' as a caveat to what unit benefits certainly changed up things quite a bit. I never considered placing 'Guide' on Dire Avengers in the past, or even Swooping Hawks. Nowadays, well, they can do some real work. The change to 18" range for many Farseer powers has me a bit confuddled as I've spent so long playing a style that utilized a 24" stand off. Hard to describe, but the shortened range has impacted my unit placement quite a bit.

Going first vs second. I went second in two games (vs Drukhari and Grey Knights) with both games ending as losses. The Drukhari was very close, but the Grey Knights was not so close. I went first in one game vs Orks and that game was, in truth, over after turn 1(my shooting/assaults crippled the Ork army). Despite LOS blocking terrain, we still have a lot at our disposal making for a really hard hitting turn 1. Phantasm, Scorpions, Karandaras, Nightspinners and then pure firepower with high movement units such as Hawks can really skew a game. I definitely need to learn how to better position my units for when I go second (the Grey Knight game was actually my first game against the 9th edition codex and that lack of knowledge crushed me; poor screening and unit placement being the primary issues).

Strands of Fate. These are a nice to have, but I have been let down in multiple games as I've not gotten the key roll on the turn I've needed it. This certainly needs more games to get a better feel and understanding, but this ability has not been as game changing as I initially thought it would have been. To be fair, this could very well be me being the weak link and misplaying them. Definitely need more games under my belt.

Phoenix Lords. Certainly interesting! I've used Karandaras and Maugan Ra so far (the new model is just really cool). I'm not sure why they are all pointed so closely together as I feel Karadaras has more utility than Maugan Ra, and from others' experiences, Baharroth seems like the most optimized option. However, I won't complain as I finally get to view them as interesting choices to an army rather than feel like I'm gimping my army by including one. A definite plus.

Indirect fire. It's hard to complain about Nightspinners and Support Platforms. One opponent didn't feel like the Support Platforms did very much (vs Grey Knights). Against 2 wound Marines, I definitely could see how they appeared less than ideal. However, I do face quite a few other armies with a lot of 1 wound models and I tend to build armies with a Take All Comers approach. I don't particularly want to run 3 x Nightspinners and 3 x 3 Shadow Weavers, but do see the appeal (especially if using Far Flung Craftworld trait Masterful Shots).

Heavy Support. I do like singleton War Walkers with Brightlances when in a Biel Tan Craftworld. A reroll to hit combined with Strands of Fate feels a lot like our Expert Crafters of old. I'm yet to field Reapers as the changes were so drastic, I'm just a bit jaded with them at the moment (I have 16 painted Reapers). The change to this unit is one of the more drastic changes to my previous lists (1 x 10 Reapers and/or 2 x 3 Reapers with Tempest Launcher). I'll admit the changes were so drastic they initially soured me on them, but I've got no real experience with them.

Wraith units. I really need to try this. I spent quite a bit of time and painted up 40 Wraith models (20 x Axe/Shield, 10 x Wraithcannon, 10 x D-Scythe) it feels a bit criminal not giving them a shot. This is especially true as I ran 8-20 Wraithblades in nearly every list prior to the new codex. The points increase definitely has a lot to do with this. However, the old issue I faced in early 9th edition has emerged again and it is simply because my midboard objective holding ability has been pretty lackluster. Wraithblades will be a unit I use again in the very near future; midfield objective contesting/fighting was the original reason they went into my older lists and my win percentages increased dramatically as a result. Need to view synergies as Fortune will be important and even a cheap, 100 point Autarch Skyrunner riding Sunstorm for the Objective Secured ability could be clutch.

Overall, I guess I've had mixed results with the new codex. On initial glance, I didn't expect my army to change a whole lot. However, after a few games, my current lists look nothing like my pre codex lists. It has been a shock to the system and definitely has me fumbling my way around the game table. It feels a lot like my early 9th edition games. I can read and listen to YouTube or podcasts, but I don't really understand it until I get several reps under my belt. This is how the new codex feels to me. It dawned on me in my last game vs Grey Knights. I really didn't think I would have lost the game, but there I was, sitting on a huge deficit on turn 3. Things that worked before do not necessarily work now and it's a case of me needing a lot more games to better understand the codex. My hat is off to those players winning/placing high at large events already with this codex. I'm definitely a bit slower to getting my grips on this codex. But, it's a fun process.

 kingheff wrote:
Quite an interesting list, obviously a bit of a skew list but understandable given your opponent.
I wonder if two squads of five dragons might be more flexible, giving you a couple of fusion missiles you can send out to blast something before, probably dying straight after, let's be honest. Smaller squads might even be able to battle focus behind cover.
I assume quicken is there to shunt wraiths up the board?
Looking forward to hearing how you get on.

I initially started off with two squads of Fire Dragons when I was considering using two Exarchs but since they're in the same Wave Serpent I figure it would be more efficient to have one squad of 10 with Burning Heat. It will be a small miracle if they survive a full round after leaving the Wave Serpent The Wraiths are also in Wave Serpents so they'll be dropped off as fast as the wave serpents reach the midfield objective. The Warlock's quicken was intended for either the Avatar in the 1st round to gain some additional distance or on the Farseer to move them onto an objective or behind character protection.

I've had a chance to play 4 games with the new book now. Before I give my limited insight its worth noting I've taken a roughly 4 year break from 40k period but the new Eldar book was the thing that finally got me back into the pool.

My first two games were with what you might call fairly 'standard' thinking Eldar lists - running 1-2 units of Guardians, a unit of rangers, a few Wave Serpents, Fire Dragons in a Fire Prism, etc. And I have to be very honest, I was underwhelmed with the book - my firepower was excellent and I still had one of the best suites of force multiplication in the game, but the army was fragile and I was struggling to survive any counter punch. The first two games were against Marines and Sisters, both were L's (the shame at losing to Marines). Not all of those losses were on my list/the book, I was (and still am) getting used to properly playing for secondary objectives and what new armies can do. However I really felt like playing Eldar as I previously had just wasn't working out.

Since those 2 games though I've played 2 more with what feels to me far less conventional lists (included in the spoiler at the bottom of this post) and I've had a ton of fun and picked up two W's (against Sisters and Drukhari). I think what helped me get to grips with the new book is reading it fresh and just forcing myself to forget everything I've known about playing Eldar for 10+ years. Once I was able to get past my old thoughts on Eldar I found the new book to have a lot of great tools that reward the kinds of play I still enjoy like great movement and the kind of tricksy plays that make Eldar fun. The new list has a lot of smaller units that I'm far less afraid to lose (and the few I don't want to lose are very hard to get rid of) and it plays towards the current edition secondary objectives a lot better.


-

Ok, guys so im playing a game vs necrons on monday. I've tinkered with two lists. one is a bit more shooty than the other, while the other is more generalist. They both have decent flexibility, though, and and lean into the strands mechanic.

heres the first


and heres the second one




I'd appreciate any comments on these : )

btw: how do we feel about vipers with lances? the cheap versions are brilliant, obviously, but what about, say, 3 hyper mobile bright t5 lances zipping around for 55 points each? they become juicy targets but im not sure thats a bad thing per se.

Scoundrel80 wrote:
btw: how do we feel about vipers with lances? the cheap versions are brilliant, obviously, but what about, say, 3 hyper mobile bright t5 lances zipping around for 55 points each? they become juicy targets but im not sure thats a bad thing per se.

I think a lot depends on saturation.

The brightlance makes them dangerous, and as you say, they are fragile. What else in your army is a higher priority on the “Things that need to die” list?

They don’t take much fire to put down, but do take some. 6 wounds still need to be chewed through, so you can’t just drop it in one shot unless you get lucky with a d6 damage weapon. Most heavy fire is probably going to be pointed at things like tanks/WLs/Avatar or whatever big nasty you have in your list. Massed small arms can do a number on them, so you need to be careful. A lot of people can just kick out a lot of S5 shots, and it won’t take much of that to down a vyper. In prior years I got a lot of milage out of TML/HB land speeders for my marines in a similar role. They did enough damage to be irritating and get results, but not so much to bump them up the target priority list to eat the fire it would take to put them down. But when that did happen? They got swatted out of the sky like a bug.

Be careful who you let get range/LoS on it. They need to hide from things that can kill them (which is a lot)
Make sure the things that can see them are either dead, crippled, or have better things to shoot once you are done with your movement/shooting.
Accept that they are going to die if the do draw attention. They are only 55 points, and the fire that put them down are wounds that other parts of your army did not take.

I think they can be effective, if used carefully. Which can be said about a lot of the codex.

When it comes to efficiency, and if there is a better use of the points, I’m less sure.

Keeping it in the FA slot, would you rather have a squad of shining spears or 2 vypers? You get a lot more raw wounds on the vypers, but the spears have potent melee as well. And the invul/native to hit penalty narrow the wound gap. They are the only things in the same slot that pack the punch of the brightlance, although other options can spam mid-strength shots which might be better generally.

Once you hit other slots that have other platforms for the BL, it gets harder to compare, because those units also need to compete with things for their slot. We should compare with the old rival the War Walker. 3 vypers vs. 2 WWs. Vypers win again on raw wounds, and can be in more places. Walkers have all the same guns (and one more BL) but i think we can’t totally discount 3 sets of paired cats these days. Walkers have an invuln, which doesn’t quite make up for the wounds, but are slower and don’t fly (but do have advanced positioning) I just noticed that vypers have the 6+ weapon skill of things that don’t want to be in melee, while the walkers get to kick things on a 3+ at S5 3 times. Not that you want your fragile BL platforms in CC, but the walker get a point here. Walkers also have a point of T, which is kind huge.

I don’t think it’s a slam dunk, but the WWs do seem better for the points. The Vypers are faster and more mobile. Walkers are slower, tougher, and have more firepower. And “slower” here is still a 10” move with a deploy ability

If you want to keep on theme, I think the Vypers can get some work done and would not be a waste of points as a trap choice. If you are trying to push your list to be more competitive, they should probably be one of the first things you look at trimming for more efficient options.

thanks, great analysis.

this is the list I wanted to try them out for. It leans heavily into strands and fast attack. so I was thinking few hard attacks fit that bill. but I think downgrading them to scatter and selling a scorpion to get me a warlock for jinx is stil better.




Automatically Appended Next Post:
one thing I've been exploring lately in list building is going several detachments, typically either 2x patrol for the perfect number of HQ or patrol/outrider to get those juicy fast attack slots. this means only good units. troop tax is typically 1 or 2 units of rangers and thats it.

And eventhough I am winning (Sadly I am the strongest player in my playgroup) I seriously feel that I miss some throwaway units for screening and to a lesser degree action monkeying.

Especially as I am playing ulthwe presently I would love a unit of ten guardian defenders (honestly I love 2 of those. yeah, I know its embarrassing to admit) just for board presence and backfield stuff. with the +1 strat they can do a bit of work. Also just to keep the backfield caster (eldrad usually) safe. They can even function as a decent target for forewarned if something drops down in my backfield.

when playing pure power units that have to be used with great precision, I often end up in situations where I have to play suboptimal positioning as there is no-one to act for look out sir, scoring or screening.

am I the only one who feels like this? or are throw aways just not something we do any more?

Throwaway units is definitely an issue. I have run 2 x 5 Rangers at a minimum in my 2000 point armies. However, I keep trying to get a bit too much out of them. I want them to perform one RND each, but if I go second, they end up acting as a screen as I utilize Phantasm. This has produced some mixed results leading me to trying to squeeze in some throwaway units.

Guardians seem like the obvious choice, but the points so far has been a bit challenging. I'm eyeing Corsairs as the throw away, screening, sit in the back type unit. If I understand the rules correctly, I can run 2 x Patrols and my 2 Ranger units are the mandatory Troop choices and I can now field Corsairs as additional Troop choices. They appear to be the cheapest Troop option available.

Another option I'm finding are Dire Avengers. 1 x 5 (Exarch with dual catapults) is only 60 points and they have a built in ability to shoot and perform an action. A general concept for them is to take 2 x 5 and spend 1 CP to place them in Strategic Reserve (6 total Power Level). Turn 2, bring one unit in for RND purposes and the same for turn 3. This alleviates some burden I'm placing on the Rangers.

The challenge is points. I think running two Patrols currently feels right for me with a pure Craftworld list. I need 3-4 Fast Attack and 3-4 Elite slots and 2 Patrols really fits my needs. Granted, I've only gotten 3 games in with the new codex, so my opinion is still based a bit of less experience.

yup. Problem with 2x5 avengers for RnD is that you fail on a six which is just.. horrible when it happens. I run 6x for that reason. especially good if I run a falcon for them. And I often do to save the CP. 2 squads is a bit steep on the elites slot account, imo. but I have don so and they do sort of solve the problem, im addressing. Thing is, they are almost too good for the job : )

Had my first game with the new dex.
Used the list I posted earlier:



My Secodaries: Brig it down, rais the banners and Interrogation (wrapcraft character targeting one)

The enemy: Admech:
6x5 ranger
2x onagers
3x las chickens
1x Armiger
2x support characters
1x CC knight - Character upgrade
1x Shooty knight - Character upgrade

His secondaries: Grind them down, data scan and table quarters

Missions: The one where you dont get CP unless you are holding no mans land/ enemy objective

1. I was the defender,
I deployed very defensively, hiding my wraithwalker blob with farseer and autarch behind cover right at the back, towards the right flank
Had Eldrad and farseer with the avengers in the wave serpent & vibro canons in the left flank.
Specters and guardians in reserve.
It meant I actualy started the game with 4 CP... -_- (the autarch trait and relic did not come into play once and was a massive waste of 2CP)

Once he deployed his CC knight to mirror my right flank heavy deployment i used phantasm to switch the wave serpent with a wraith seer (in hind sight I should have also re-deployed the vibro canons)

T1.

I got first turn. Deployed avengers as screen and farseers onto the right side objective (to be within 18" of the knight)and kept the wave serpent hidden by as much terrain as possible.

I cast focus will + doom on cc knight and guide on the avengers
Regen CP with spirit seer and 2nd farseer did the psychic action.
I held everything else back behind cover. And raised banner with autarch.

Blasted the CC knight with all of the BL shooting and the avengers exploding 6's strat (avengers did 13 wounds alone with split fire as 6 shots went at a ranger unit!) he got very lucky with saves and his FNP and was down to 6 wounds. Obviously rotated ion shields....
(Didn't relay matter though as he just burned CP to be full profile..)

The vibro canons melted the armiger got lucky with triple 6 of shots but think it does on averages anyway

His turn: he didn't really shoot much, because most of my stuff was hidden and I used my magic dice to tank a 6 up invuln on a melta and risked another one for a badly damaged wraithlord. His knight came within charge range sadly and stomped my DA. I did throw an overwatch (is there a way to improve overwatch ?) but only got 2 wounds out of it (because of guide and doom I thought it was worth it with 7 guys.

Exarch somehow survived but because of poor placement he lost the objective

T2. I deployed the spectres behind cover in the middle and guardians on no mans land objective opposite the shooty knight (hoping to draw him in for a charge)
I moved out my wraith boys and moved my wave serpent and psykers up the board to cap the next objective - psychic MW output was a massive wiff.. even with super smite ended up doing 3MW = 2x smite and executioner... menaing his CC knight. Wraithseer did interrogate. Spirit seer farm CP, and other wraithseer smited the other knight for 2MW.

This unfortunately meant I had to put a lot of shooting into the CC knight as he obviously rotated ion shields. I split fire so only Shuri canons went into the knight while BL went into chicken walkers and his onagers.
The knight eventualy went down and exploded but luckily only 4".

From then on it was a case of holding more, doing a raise banner with one of the infantry characters, shooting his onagers and cognis chickens and ignoring the shooty knight. the guardians tanked his big flamers and Gatling on the platforms. which were in a crater.

We called it T4 I was thin on the ground but his big night was about to be charged by angry wraithseers.

My takeaway from the battle:

Dire avengers - Amazing output. With guide and doom and exploding 6's they wreck face - My MVP unit

Vibro canons - Amazing unit. I got lucky but the way they slapped his armiger around terrified him so he concentrated all of his fire power on them ignoring the wraiht units. Pure glass canon unit

Wraithlords/Wraihtseers - They did ok. I have mixed feeling. As a platform wraith lords started going down once enough fire power directed BUT having one of the fate dice and a 6++ means they could just shrug off a killing hit from AT weapons something forcing more shots/surviving on 1W. The wraithseers were great in that they could do psychic action rather than smite - they suffer massively from lack of -1D (FAQ is needed ASAP) - Also tears of isha with spirit seer is a nice spend of 1 CP.

My autarch set up - Completely useless.. Not sure if autarch was needed between doom and ulthwe I had a lot of wound re-rolls. The double CP re-roll was clutch though.

Farseers - 18" doom and guide kinda sucks.. You HAVE to be within 18" as even with focus will you'd need fate dice for a 6 psychic to guarantee the 9.

Guardians - I think storm guardians with serpent shield are a much better option for a ob sec bodies that are supposed to be a screen/blocker. They suffer the -1 to hit with heavy weapon on platform which is not great.

Wave serpent - Very useful. The 5++ is great. I think I much prefer it to the half damage from old dex.

Specters - They struggled to clear up 1x 5 man unit of rangers. Without possibility of guide or doom they sadly do not cut the mustard. Id rather get another unit of Vibro-canons or more dire avengers.

Thanks for reading my wall of text
The list has been refined

I had a similar game but instead of fighting giant mechanical constructs I was fighting giant bugs. Leviathan had to be stopped at all costs.

Army


Battle report with Photos


General thoughts & observations
Eldar
-Mobile Fighters was very helpful when my Sword Wraithblades popped out and had to launch into a T7 target. Warding Runes 6++ was nice but more importantly the 5+++ vs Mortals meant I didn't lose the game by turn 2.
-Eldritch Storm is great, highly recommend.
-Guardians did their job and sat on objectives, the reroll 1s on Objectives is nice.
-Wraiths are still very durable. While the Wraithlord is my very model, the wraithguard and wraithblades feel far more effective
-Wave Serpents weren't necessary since my opponent made it to the mid-field so soon, they were only helpful for protecting the slow moving Wraiths, for the Fire Dragons you can get away with putting them behind Obscuring cover then pressing forward as a counter-punch unit.
-Executioner was a poor choice for this matchup since my opponent didn't have anything with less than 3 wounds. Fortune was great with Fire Dragons or Wraith Guard
-Will of Asuryan wasn't necessary, I picked it as a fun way to make the Avatar obsec but he didn't get a chance to make it in and count. Phoenix Lords giving their units ObSec was great though.
-Love the new Avatar but unfortunately Tyranids have a way to ignore FNP and dish out large amounts of damage so even with the 1/2 DMG my went from full to 1 Wound in a single round of shooting and melee.
-My Fire Dragons lasted till Round 5 amazingly! They wiped out more units than anyone else, burning heat is a nice counter when fighting an army that has Transhuman on everything.
-Really love Strands of Fate, it's a nice trick to keep in the back pocket. In the first round having two auto pass saves (Army wide 6++) really, really helped.

Tyranids - Leviathan
-Transhuman on synapse creatures is pretty powerful. They also have ways to upgrade their big bugs to get a 4++ Invul. Out of my opponents entire army the only units without an Invul were the Warriors and the Venomthropes. Not many! When we have our rematch I think I'll bring along two Fire Prisms and try out the Stratagem
-The Zoanthropes horde got a +6 to Smite, so that was potent! I was only able to successfully deny two powers this game and that was with the Fate dice. The brain bugs also have a way to regenerate wounds after causing Psychic damage, so don't ever split fire!
-I'm used to turn 1 charges and getting annhilated by Crusher stampede so this was a nice change of pace in playstyle. I really enjoyed fighting Tyranids and I'm looking forward to fighting them again. Our casualties were neck and neck for the first 3 rounds, had a blast even though we were both learning our new rules.

Secondaries:
-Bring it down of course was great against giant bugs
-Interrogation was a mistake, I should have stuck with our codex specific Scry. My opponent had -1 to my casts, and +1 to their casts, so Interrogation went very successfully for them.
-I may go with Banners next time since when facing a melee heavy army, sitting back and screening out deep strike will earn me a lot more points than other objectives I tend to play with my other armies (Strangle hold, engage on all fronts, etc.)

Final score: 68 (Tyranids) to 55 (Eldar)

Interesting reads thanks folks.

On the RnD Dire Avengers: 6 man units are needed to guarantee RnD, but 2x6 cost 2CP to reserve. If that's the plan it's probably best to start them on the board and then use Phantasm for 2CP to reserve them and also move something else. Makes it slightly more efficient anyway.